So I go look at this car today.

633 Views 19 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Grandpa33, Aug 23, 2009

kingjason

Discussion Starter · Aug 23, 2009

I was negotiating with this guy about an older Trans Am over the course of the week. I love the look of the 77-81's and had restored one say 15 years ago. Loved that car and it was fun to drive. So the guy tells me yeah its a numbers matching car and the guy before us had the motor rebuilt. Said its all there and great shape just needs restored. Has the front of the motor pulled off though for some odd reason but sounds mean when cranked. Well I drive an 1 1/2 hours and look at it with a trailer. Damn thing had a 400 pontiac in it and did not match up. What really hacked me off was the fact that the reason whoever pulled the front stuff off the motor was to clean away where the vin numbers were and they clearly didnt match. Now whats really sad is this guy had a dealership and dealt in older beaters and hew was prob 30ish. When I told him the vin is right hear in the open and he said oh I didnt know where to look I thought WTF ever. Wouldnt have been a deal killer but he wanted too much for a non matching car. Then wouldnt back off the price. Sighhhh People get on my nerves. 3 hours of my life I wont get back.

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KAZ

· #2 · Aug 23, 2009

I've been dealing with the same thing; over the last 3 weeks we've been trying to hunt down a Jeep Grand Wagoneer and we've wasted alot of time looking for the right one at the right price and not a single one matched the description the seller gave me. That shit pisses me off. I guess they think I'm still going to buy it just because I drove all the way out to look at it.
I finally found one but I had to fly to Miami and drive it back, but the price was right and it's pretty clean.

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95snake

· #3 · Aug 23, 2009

Thats sucks man.. What pisses me off is the first gen camaros people make everything a Z28 and we all know there are not that many real Z28s rolling around. My dads friend has a 69 camaro, he restored it and now says its a real Z car which is a load of crap he wont pop the hood either. The damn thing has a 350 in it and its a damn auto. He likes to tell everyone its numbers matching yada yada yada. BS. weren't most of the 80 81 cars turbo cars anyways?

mikeb

· #4 · Aug 23, 2009

2nd gen values are going up. what shape was the car in overall? And what was the asking price?

kingjason

Discussion Starter · #5 · Aug 23, 2009

Over all it was straight. Needed full resto. Pans looked decent maybe a pin hole behind drivers. T-tops were off another car and had been engraved with a different vin. Silver anv edition but needed a lot. Wiring was butched. Its on craigs in Cumby. With TTL like 3800.00.

mikeb

· #6 · Aug 23, 2009

kingjason said:
Over all it was straight. Needed full resto. Pans looked decent maybe a pin hole behind drivers. T-tops were off another car and had been engraved with a different vin. Silver anv edition but needed a lot. Wiring was butched. Its on craigs in Cumby. With TTL like 3800.00.

silver anniversary? 10th anniversary? I paid $3400 for one in much worse condition, with butchered wiring. But it was an original 4 speed car (~1700 made). And the engine vin didn't match either. Who cares? we're gonna drive this one.

kingjason

Discussion Starter · #7 · Aug 23, 2009

Yeah but you can find them all there ready to restore for less then that. It would make a very nice driver with a lot of work. He said when he got it there was no oil in the motor. So he filled it up with oil and dumped gas in the carb and it ran great. Now why it had no oil I dont know since you could tell even though the paint on the block was newer at some point it still had some miles under its belt. Like I said I had a fully restored one and did all the work myself even the paint and still had a chunk in it. You know I think it was just the point too that what he told me about the car and then I get there and its not and he wont back off the price any. Motor had rollers on it too and hasnt had the valve covers on it in a while. You would easily be into the car for 10k or more to get it up to good shape and driving nice. Sticker kit alone for that one is like 850.00 on ebay. You can find some really nice cars for 10k that are original.

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kingjason

Discussion Starter · #8 · Aug 23, 2009

95snake said:
Thats sucks man.. What pisses me off is the first gen camaros people make everything a Z28 and we all know there are not that many real Z28s rolling around. My dads friend has a 69 camaro, he restored it and now says its a real Z car which is a load of crap he wont pop the hood either. The damn thing has a 350 in it and its a damn auto. He likes to tell everyone its numbers matching yada yada yada. BS. weren't most of the 80 81 cars turbo cars anyways?

Mostly I believe they where 403's with a few 400 4spds on this edition. I think 80-81 where the 301 years with the Turbos and without. I wouldnt mind finding a Turbo car intact either and really working the motor over and putting a newer turbo on it. I kept messing with a guy last year in NRH that had one that was all there and original and ran for like 2800.00. I think he either got tired of listing it or may have sold it.

ram57ta

· #9 · Aug 23, 2009

kingjason said:
Mostly I believe they where 403's with a few 400 4spds on this edition. I think 80-81 where the 301 years with the Turbos and without. I wouldnt mind finding a Turbo car intact either and really working the motor over and putting a newer turbo on it. I kept messing with a guy last year in NRH that had one that was all there and original and ran for like 2800.00. I think he either got tired of listing it or may have sold it.

Chances of finding a running 301 Turbo car thats in good condition is slim. Most of the 301 Turbo cars had horrible detonation problems even with premium fuel which led to blown head gaskets, burned pistons or rings, bad bearings (detonation can be a real bitch on a bottom end), or even thrown rods. Putting a better turbo on a 301T won't really do much for it...the problem is the weak motor...and a horrible induction system. Pontiac should have never made that engine. Im not saying it can't be done (making a 301T fast), but I've never seen a 301T hold together with more than 350hp....I/E around low 13's. Good luck though...theres always some genius that finds a way to make 500rwhp out of a motor that shouldn't make anywhere near it.

diablo rojo

· #10 · Aug 23, 2009

KAZ said:
I've been dealing with the same thing; over the last 3 weeks we've been trying to hunt down a Jeep Grand Wagoneer and we've wasted alot of time looking for the right one at the right price and not a single one matched the description the seller gave me. That shit pisses me off. I guess they think I'm still going to buy it just because I drove all the way out to look at it.
I finally found one but I had to fly to Miami and drive it back, but the price was right and it's pretty clean.

There's a guy in Kerrville that deals in nothing but the Wagoneer

kingjason

Discussion Starter · #11 · Aug 23, 2009

Yeah actually on the Turbo car I could care less about keeping it all original if it was cheap enough. Could throw a 350 in it and bigger turbo. I knew they had problems but didnt know they were that bad. I originally hated the turbo hoods but they have really grown on me over the years.

Also Kaz are you on the FSJ board? Thye are usually good at finding them. There was guy called the wagonmaster or something that only dealt in pristine wagoneers. I went adifferent way then you. I built a monster waggy, blood red, mopar black stripe, leather interior, and 35's which were a big tire then. LOL Man I dumped about 16k in that dude.

KAZ

· #12 · Aug 23, 2009

diablo rojo said:
There's a guy in Kerrville that deals in nothing but the Wagoneer

I saw a rerun episode of the WagonMaster on Texas Country Reporter and that's what turned me on to these things. He wants upwards of $25k - $30k. for his. I found mine in Miami for less than half of that. It's not perfect, but it just needs minor detail stuff.

KAZ

· #13 · Aug 23, 2009

This one looks like it has some potential and isn't too far away.

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/cto/1334712565.html

mikeb

· #14 · Aug 23, 2009

KAZ said:
This one looks like it has some potential and isn't too far away.

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/cto/1334712565.html

People are gonna start snapping those kinds of deals up pretty soon. I was talking to a guy that sells classic auto a/c stuff, and he said that their 2nd gen business had really picked up lately. If I had the room i'd start buying cars like that and store them away.

You are right about the cost of the 10th anniv stickers (and the door panels, and the seat covers). I bought the stickers but the door panels ($500) and seat covers ($1500) are still waiting to be bought. At least you can still buy them though.

And the 301's potential? There is an article in this months HPP about a guy running super stock with a 301. He runs low 12s with it.

JKD

· #15 · Aug 23, 2009

Second Gen TA's in good condition are tough to find for a "bargain" price anymore. Alot of 50s/60's muscle cars are getting too expensive for most common gearheads so they are moving into the 70's cars now. Naturally, the 77/78 TA's were the some of the most popular cars in the 70's so the prices are soon to skyrocket.

Just like alot of car guys, one of my childhood dreamcars was the 77 Gold Edition TA from Smokey and The Bandit. Those things are ridiculous in prices these days.

HECDOGGIE

· #16 · Aug 23, 2009

Where can we find #s on the engine to check and see if #'s match?

Just curious, all my #s so far match, color to vin and body plate -

Jimbo

· #17 · Aug 23, 2009

I think think the values are going up on the nicer original ones, you can still get the beaters for cheap. I had an '81 anniversary Turbo formula roller that I assumed was pretty rare and couldn't get jack for it, lol.

kingjason

Discussion Starter · #18 · Aug 23, 2009

The last 6 of the vin should match the number right under the front of the passenger head.

Yeah they are getting higher and higher but you can still find deals all the time on the TA's.

To me 10th anv car means collector. Which means I was going to build it up right. The motor was a big key in that. Hell the 400 Pontiac is a much better motor then a 403 olds but I wasnt look for flat out performance. He wants premium price for a car that needs full resto and then some. The motor dictates that you will not get that money back ever. That 77 on craigs is a perfect example of deals to be had. I am patient so no biggy to me. If he would of knocked a grand off of our previous agreed price I would of taken it since it is kinda pieced together. It will make a nice car for some one but I hate people that play dumb when they should know better..

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kingjason

Discussion Starter · #19 · Aug 23, 2009

I get a clutch put in my Deisel and Kansas may not be to far away. LOL

Grandpa33

· #20 · Aug 23, 2009

pm sent

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