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98cobra281 said:
I just made a bet with my cousin that if you remove the front swaybar that it wont make a diffenece in handling or anything you guys put your .02 in and prove him wrong.:D

Pay your cousin because YOU LOSE.

If you remove it, your car is going to steer like a boat around corners with some major body roll.
 

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Guess what?

I have been talking to the Engineers at Maximum Motorsports, and they told me that when you put in their K member, tubular control arms, and coil over kit, that it will handle BETTER WITHOUT the front sway bar. Course only if you have the torque arm and panhard bar in the rear.

I don't want to get my facts wrong, so I won't post up the reasons until I talk to them again tommorrow, but it has something to do with the roll center changing once you upgrade to better suspension parts.

the sway bar was put in to makeup for the shortcomings in the stock setup.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok I knew it would make a differnce but what the bet was about is that hes saying it will start shuttering at about 35 and I had the front sway bar off my 5.0 and dind't hurt anything enough that I wanted it on there. His argument is that it will not turn and it will lower the front end.
 

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Here is the skinny on sway bars.....

The front sway bar is to keep the outside wheel planted in cornering. Bsically it keeps the car from rolling up on the inside tire, causing massive understeer. Putting drag style springs on the front and removing the sway bar would amplify the understeer problem quite a bit and would not be recommended at all. Put skinnys on and you have a worst case scenario.

However, let's say you have good stiff springs in the front, especially a good coilover setup. The car's tendency to roll to the inside (understeer) during cornering would be greatly diminished simply due the high spring rate. Take this to the extreme, i.e., lets say the front inside tire and outside tire both stuck like glue to the road- what would happen? The back end would want to swing around (oversteer). SO, if you have too much front grip- stiff coilovers, wide rubber, good bushings, etc, and you are open tracking, or auto crossing, and the back end wants to come around (oversteer) then the solution would be to introduce a litte front understeer to compensate. How to do this? Remove the front swaybar !

Putting a torque arm and panhard bar on the car increases the rear grip so much that the car will now understeer before it will ever oversteer.

Then put a good handling setup on the front, too, and you have so much front grip that the car will now possibly oversteer. Keep in mind that this will be at the extreme limit of the suspension, at high speeds, not going around a simple corner.

So this oversteer problem can be tuned out by removing the front sway bar, thus introducing a little understeer, which is much, much safer.
 

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Re: Here is the skinny on sway bars.....

93LXHORSE said:
The front sway bar is to keep the outside wheel planted in cornering. Bsically it keeps the car from rolling up on the inside tire, causing massive understeer. Putting drag style springs on the front and removing the sway bar would amplify the understeer problem quite a bit and would not be recommended at all. Put skinnys on and you have a worst case scenario.

However, let's say you have good stiff springs in the front, especially a good coilover setup. The car's tendency to roll to the inside (understeer) during cornering would be greatly diminished simply due the high spring rate. Take this to the extreme, i.e., lets say the front inside tire and outside tire both stuck like glue to the road- what would happen? The back end would want to swing around (oversteer). SO, if you have too much front grip- stiff coilovers, wide rubber, good bushings, etc, and you are open tracking, or auto crossing, and the back end wants to come around (oversteer) then the solution would be to introduce a litte front understeer to compensate. How to do this? Remove the front swaybar !

Putting a torque arm and panhard bar on the car increases the rear grip so much that the car will now understeer before it will ever oversteer.

Then put a good handling setup on the front, too, and you have so much front grip that the car will now possibly oversteer. Keep in mind that this will be at the extreme limit of the suspension, at high speeds, not going around a simple corner.

So this oversteer problem can be tuned out by removing the front sway bar, thus introducing a little understeer, which is much, much safer.
Although that aproach may work as a fix for a mismatch in front to rear roll stiffness, it's not really a good idea. Cars without swaybars never handle really well because the lack of "need" for a swaybar indicates a problem somewhere else in the suspension, and there are fewer tuning options without swaybars. I have heard of the no swaybar aproach on road race cars over and over again, even seen some people design suspensions without them, but I haven't ever seen those cars be competitive. If it is necessary to pull the swaybar to improve handling, that probably means the spring rates are way out of whack. It's best to balance the front and rear roll stiffness (using the springs) according to the weight distribution, and then use the swaybars to fine tune everything. Understeer is actually cured by stiffening the front sway bar or loosening the rear bar. Oversteer is cured by stiffening the rear bar or loosening the front.
 

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Re: Re: Here is the skinny on sway bars.....

JRam said:
Although that aproach may work as a fix for a mismatch in front to rear roll stiffness, it's not really a good idea. Cars without swaybars never handle really well because the lack of "need" for a swaybar indicates a problem somewhere else in the suspension, and there are fewer tuning options without swaybars. I have heard of the no swaybar aproach on road race cars over and over again, even seen some people design suspensions without them, but I haven't ever seen those cars be competitive. If it is necessary to pull the swaybar to improve handling, that probably means the spring rates are way out of whack. It's best to balance the front and rear roll stiffness (using the springs) according to the weight distribution, and then use the swaybars to fine tune everything. Understeer is actually cured by stiffening the front sway bar or loosening the rear bar. Oversteer is cured by stiffening the rear bar or loosening the front.
True, true....

I was just merely 'splainin the theory behind the sway bar....

I'll leave mine on !
 
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