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Premium Member
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2,305 Posts
So how many pages do you have to turn to see a GM advertisement in this Motor Trend? Giving them money means you win their road tests and GM is broke. The ZR1 getting beat by a Miata?
so why are they broke again? oh yeah they cant sell their shit.
 

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Keep your unicorns
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12,421 Posts
Find me proof and I'll believe it.

Hell, if you can find me quantitative data that correlates advertising money paid with positive road test verdicts, I'll believe it.
Car of the year list from MT's own website.

2002 {{{{{{Ford Thunderbird}}}}}}
2001 {{{Chrysler {{{PT Cruiser}}}}}}
2000 {{{{{{Lincoln LS}}}}}}
1999 {{{Chrysler {{{300M}}}}}}
1998 {{{{{{Chevrolet Corvette}}}}}}
1997 {{{Chevrolet {{{Malibu}}}}}}
1996 {{{{{{Dodge Caravan}}}}}}
1995 {{{Chrysler {{{Cirrus}}}}}}
1994 {{{Ford {{{Mustang}}}}}}
1993 {{{Ford {{{Probe}}}}}} GT

PT Cruiser, Dodge Caravan and a Cirrus? Come on now how else do you explain the Probe GT beating out the 93 Z28s and Cobra? The Ford Thunderbird alone has won the COTY award more than all of the Japanese car companies combined.
 

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Factory Issue
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12,295 Posts
What were the requirements for this comparo? MSRP obviously was not, seeing that in many cases the Camaro is $20-$70,000 less than it's competition... How do you expect a vehicle at that price point to even come close to the competition? I'm not a Camaro nuthugger, but how can you expect a $30,000 car to compete with $50, $70 and $100,000 cars? It won't. You get what you pay for.

Taylor
The requirements were listed in the article. Explain the Miata.
 

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[x] original checkboxer
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10,836 Posts
I'm interested in seeing what the "Turning? People actually turn while they race?" crowd to make their comments.
In two weeks we will have two Koni-Challenge GS 2010 Camaros here at the house, so I'll let your know how they handle. :)
 

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WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!
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10,859 Posts
Car of the year list from MT's own website.

2002 {{{{{{Ford Thunderbird}}}}}}
2001 {{{Chrysler {{{PT Cruiser}}}}}}
2000 {{{{{{Lincoln LS}}}}}}
1999 {{{Chrysler {{{300M}}}}}}
1998 {{{{{{Chevrolet Corvette}}}}}}
1997 {{{Chevrolet {{{Malibu}}}}}}
1996 {{{{{{Dodge Caravan}}}}}}
1995 {{{Chrysler {{{Cirrus}}}}}}
1994 {{{Ford {{{Mustang}}}}}}
1993 {{{Ford {{{Probe}}}}}} GT

PT Cruiser, Dodge Caravan and a Cirrus? Come on now how else do you explain the Probe GT beating out the 93 Z28s and Cobra? The Ford Thunderbird alone has won the COTY award more than all of the Japanese car companies combined.

Motor Trend had a separate "import" COTY up until 2000. Before then the imports never competed with American cars for COTY.
 

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10,554 Posts
In two weeks we will have two Koni-Challenge GS 2010 Camaros here at the house, so I'll let your know how they handle. :)
He'll surely have something hateful to say.

I don't like the color orange. The black on the paint isn't black enough. He's the epitome of Camaro haters... You shouldn't expect anything less.

For that matter, I don't think I've ever seen a positive statement about ANYTHING that he's ever posted.
 

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162 Posts
I've driven a 6spd Camaro SS. I was personally very disappointed in the car; and I told the salesman this in the middle of the test drive. I thought the interior sucked. Huge, plain panels everywhere. The exhaust not was definitely lacking. If I were blindfolded, I would have never guessed I was driving a 426hp "monster." I'm sure it was quicker than it felt, but it didn't feel all that quick. The corrected, yes corrected, times all the magazines print are impressive, but when you are actually drive it you don't get the same sensation. My last beef was with the clutch. Who the hell would actually put a clutch pedal that soft in a "muscle" car. I happen to think the clutch in my '07 GT is pretty light. After driving the Camaro, my clutch felt like an old 5.0 (I happen to like that feelig btw). You know when you take a step and misjudge how far the drop off from a curb is and you kind of fall a little? That's basically what happened the first time I pressed the clutch. It is absurdly ridiculous. Go feel it for yourself. Anyway, this is all my personal opinion. I really went in with an open mind. I love the LS Juan cars and was hoping this was going to be the banana in GM's flux-capacitor. I just don't think it delivers as much as they needed it to.
 

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20,196 Posts
I've driven a 6spd Camaro SS. I was personally very disappointed in the car; and I told the salesman this in the middle of the test drive. I thought the interior sucked. Huge, plain panels everywhere. The exhaust not was definitely lacking. If I were blindfolded, I would have never guessed I was driving a 426hp "monster." I'm sure it was quicker than it felt, but it didn't feel all that quick. The corrected, yes corrected, times all the magazines print are impressive, but when you are actually drive it you don't get the same sensation. My last beef was with the clutch. Who the hell would actually put a clutch pedal that soft in a "muscle" car. I happen to think the clutch in my '07 GT is pretty light. After driving the Camaro, my clutch felt like an old 5.0 (I happen to like that feelig btw). You know when you take a step and misjudge how far the drop off from a curb is and you kind of fall a little? That's basically what happened the first time I pressed the clutch. It is absurdly ridiculous. Go feel it for yourself. Anyway, this is all my personal opinion. I really went in with an open mind. I love the LS Juan cars and was hoping this was going to be the banana in GM's flux-capacitor. I just don't think it delivers as much as they needed it to.
I've heard the newer LS motors don't "feel" as fast as they are. It's a much more smooth acceleration. As far as the clutch goes, isn't it because it's a hydraulic clutch? I hate feeling like I'm getting a workout pushing a hard clutch in. Different strokes I guess.
 

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Banned
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20,196 Posts
Car of the year list from MT's own website.

2002 {{{{{{Ford Thunderbird}}}}}} bust
2001 {{{Chrysler {{{PT Cruiser}}}}}} pussy car
2000 {{{{{{Lincoln LS}}}}}} not bad but of the year?
1999 {{{Chrysler {{{300M}}}}}} if you like pieces of shit
1998 {{{{{{Chevrolet Corvette}}}}}} why was '98 so much better than '97?
1997 {{{Chevrolet {{{Malibu}}}}}} again, vette in '97
1996 {{{{{{Dodge Caravan}}}}}} Minivans...
1995 {{{Chrysler {{{Cirrus}}}}}} What the fuck is this?
1994 {{{Ford {{{Mustang}}}}}} Maybe...
1993 {{{Ford {{{Probe}}}}}} GT A fucking probe? Did they actually drive it?
Just my opinion
 

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Premium Member
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5,992 Posts
I like my car, could I drive it everyday..........no. My biggest problem is I cant see how bad I'm being somebody cause the rear window is so small.
 

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162 Posts
I like my car, could I drive it everyday..........no. My biggest problem is I cant see how bad I'm being somebody cause the rear window is so small.
How do feel about your clutch pedal (assuming you have a stick).

Yes, they are hydraulic. Have been since '97ish (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). So are the S197 cars. They just have more pedal feel.
 

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Premium Member
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7,724 Posts
he's run 10's in that car with the stock clutch. They come with the LS7 clutch and it is rated for about 500hp in a vette. I've got the same clutch and I guess the PP is really lightly sprung. The pedal feel is very soft, but I welcome a soft pedal feel after drivng the car with a cable operated SPEC stage III. It would kill your left leg in traffic....
 

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T56's have been hydraulic since '93...

The new Camaros accelerate smooth. Handle decent enough for a DD. My biggest complaint is the huge blind spot on the right front of the car. And the passenger side of the dash is boring blackness.
 

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The Janitor
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16,424 Posts
I dont know why any of you are suprised a camaro, even not on the f-body chassis, handles like a wallowing pig.


I mean really now, who was suprised?
 

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I dont know why any of you are suprised a camaro, even not on the f-body chassis, handles like a wallowing pig.


I mean really now, who was suprised?
It still made the list though where-in the mustang gt that I think is supposed to handle better, didn't. I think that's where this lists loses credibility with me.
 
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