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Aspiring Bean Counter.
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
...it finishes dead last in a magazine comparison that featured a Miata, a GT500 and two sedans.

This month's issue of Motor Trend included their now annual "Best Handling" test, but for this year they changed and added some new criteria and were looking for the "Best Driver's Car" which included all of those intangibles like ride quality, the confidence that the car instills in the driver, and so forth.

Here's the final finishing order:

1. 2009 Porsche Cayman S PDK
2. 2009 Audi R8
3. 2009 MX-5 Miata
4. 2009 Cadillac CTS-V
5. 2010 Shelby GT500
6. 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1
7. 2010 Nissan NISMO 350Z
8. 2010 Jaguar XFR
9. 2009 BMW 135i
10. 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS

Two different 4-door sedans even beat the damned thing. Since the Camaro leghumpers will come in here saying something about magazine comparos meaning absolutely nothing , I'm posting up the section of the article on the Camaro so they can pick it apart and tell us all of the reasons that they're right and the article is wrong.

Motor Trend said:
We were expecting more from the Bow-Tie bunch's all-new hot rod, what with it dismissing the Ford Mustang GT and the Dodge Challenger R/T in a June comparison, not to mention being on hiatus the last eight years (surely that's enough time for Chevrolet to develop a great driver's car). Alas, in this obnoxiously competitive field, the rear-drive, 426-horsepower Camaro SS could muster...last place. Why?

Well, for starters, it's big and heavy- as in 3888 pounds big and heavy. While not as cumbersome as the 3903-pound GT500, the Camaro manages to convey every one of those pounds; the Shelby does not. We're not talking about the feel during straight line acceleration- 0 to 60 in 4.5 seconds and the quarter mile in 12.9 at 110.7 MPH mean the SS can actually come across as light on its feet when boogying down the strip- but rather the sensations over the twists and curves of a mountain road, autocross, or racetrack.

"It often returns large, doughy sensations on the tight autocross." observes Loh, adding, "The overall impression is that it's a heavy car that needs to be manhandled. It has none of the finesse or point-and-shoot ability of the group's top players." St. Antoine, who notes that the Camaro is "very quick, delivers generally good grip and looks and sounds the part," can't help but point out the obvious: "Against some of the true driver's cars here, the Camaro feels so big, bulky, dark, and...did I say 'big?'" So despite respectable objective numbers-0.88g maximum lateral grip and 26.0 second at .73g through the figure eight-the Camaro registers low on our subjective meter. How about pro shoe Randy Pobst's meter?

Low as well. "It's a beautiful car to look at buy to drive it? Understeer- frustrating understeer," declares Pobst. "It's almost like before stability control when they'd make cars understeer a lot just so they'd be safe. As a driver, I find that frustrating. When I got done with my hot laps, I didn't want to drive it anymore." This can't be good news for the Camaro, but according to Pobst, there is hope. "Potential is what I see here. I just think they've been too conservative at Chevrolet with the handling setup. It's probably capable of being a better-balanced car and still being very safe and easy to drive."

Any other thoughts? "It's also the only car where I found myself really moving around in the driver's seat. I could tell immediately the bolsters were really soft; they didn't hold me in place at all."

Our judges had other issues with the interior. "Claustrophobic cockpit and tight footwell conspire against driver confidence," notes Markus. Loh says, "Shifter is large and awkward, though the transmission is not bad, and pedal placement is not meant for heel-to-toe maneuvers." St. Antoine adds, "The steering wheels is huge--and ugly. The gauges and shapes seem overwrought, as if Chevy had to prove it could deliver a 'designer' cabin. This is stuff to wow fellow adolescents at the drive-in, not drivers." According to Loh, "The Camaro will put a smile on your face, but most likely when you're running stoplight to stoplight. It's a boulevard brute, not a focused driver's car." Which is exactly why it finished at the back of this pack.
Take away from this what you will, but it really just confirms my thoughts that Chevrolet cobbled together a chassis as quickly as they could, stuck a love-me or hate-me body on top of it and threw a lot of power at it. Luckily for GM, American consumers are rarely about substance and almost always about image. So high-five for a hell of a business decision, GM!

I'm interested in seeing what the "Turning? People actually turn while they race?" crowd to make their comments.
 

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¯\(º_o)/¯
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25,373 Posts
I like all the mustangs on that list. oh wait I see it, they had to rename it to a Shelby so it wouldn't leave a bad taste in peoples mouths.
 

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Aspiring Bean Counter.
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12,279 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I like all the mustangs on that list. oh wait I see it, they had to rename it to a Shelby so it wouldn't leave a bad taste in peoples mouths.
Give me another 15 minutes to dig up my issue from June in which Motor Trend declared the the 2010 Mustang GT markedly spanked the Camaro SS in handling. Hold on...
 

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¯\(º_o)/¯
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Give me another 15 minutes to dig up my issue from June in which Motor Trend declared the the 2010 Mustang GT markedly spanked the Camaro SS in handling. Hold on...
I honestly dont really care. I love mustangs more than camaros, but if i wanted either I'd get the camaro simply because i think it looks better and it has more hp.
 

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Keep your unicorns
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12,421 Posts
So how many pages do you have to turn to see a GM advertisement in this Motor Trend? Giving them money means you win their road tests and GM is broke. The ZR1 getting beat by a Miata?
 

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Aspiring Bean Counter.
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12,279 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So how many pages do you have to turn to see a GM advertisement in this Motor Trend? Giving them money means you win their road tests and GM is broke. The ZR1 getting beat by a Miata?
3 page turns to the first GM ad. GM also regularly runs giant fucking 3-4 page foldout ads in Motor Trend. That's a pretty narcissistic, tin-foil hat theory as well.

Yeah Motor Trend isn't biased at all.
See Above. If anything, their 'bias' should have lent the GM vehicles some credence if that's how you're scoring it.

You're missing the point. This is a 10 Best List... you're knocking the Camaro for making it? Or not finishing first?
Nowhere do they say that it's a "10 Best." The field was selected by including last year's winner and then including 9 models that were new for 2009.
 

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Premium Member
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I take ANY review of cars from a major label car mag with a grain of salt. I only focus on the factory specs. I figure I will drive the car myself and make my own conclusion instead of having some journalist who probably isnt really even a real enthusiast make my opinion up for me. Thats just me. I treat them as movie reviews.
 

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Aspiring Bean Counter.
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12,279 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I take ANY review of cars from a major label car mag with a grain of salt. I only focus on the factory specs. I figure I will drive the car myself and make my own conclusion instead of having some journalist who probably isnt really even a real enthusiast make my opinion up for me. Thats just me. I treat them as movie reviews.
I agree with you, to a point. You can't take a magazine's opinion as truth, but I think there's still a lot to be taken away from it, especially when they've got a professional shoe with a pretty decent pedigree (Randy Pobst) that's there giving his opinion as well.

No doubt my personal opinion was influenced by the fact that I can vouch for the hilarious understeer that the 2010 Camaros exhibit. It ranks up there with my mother's G35, and that's not a compliment. The only vehicle I've driven that matches the front-end plow that both of those cars exhibit was my 2000 VW GTI, which was FWD with a hefty V6 up front.
 

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DFWS
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6,989 Posts
So how many pages do you have to turn to see a GM advertisement in this Motor Trend? Giving them money means you win their road tests and GM is broke. The ZR1 getting beat by a Miata?
agreed...





Motor Trend takes bribes $$$ for those stupid lists
 

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Aspiring Bean Counter.
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12,279 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
agreed...





Motor Trend takes bribes $$$ for those stupid lists
Find me proof and I'll believe it.

Hell, if you can find me quantitative data that correlates advertising money paid with positive road test verdicts, I'll believe it.

Until then, you're just a dude on a forum pulling theories out of mid-air without any kind of statistical backing because you're unhappy with the results of a test that's relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
 

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DFWS
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6,989 Posts
Find me proof and I'll believe it.

Hell, if you can find me quantitative data that correlates advertising money paid with positive road test verdicts, I'll believe it.

Until then, you're just a dude on a forum pulling theories out of mid-air without any kind of statistical backing because you're unhappy with the results of a test that's relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
i could care less about the results but you don't think the all mighty car manufacturers never offered a bribe to the media?
 

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老师
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Find me proof and I'll believe it.

Hell, if you can find me quantitative data that correlates advertising money paid with positive road test verdicts, I'll believe it.

Until then, you're just a dude on a forum pulling theories out of mid-air without any kind of statistical backing because you're unhappy with the results of a test that's relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
The Camry had been on their 10 best cars list for a number of years running; at least it was until 2006, when the new Camry came out and Toyota refused to sponsor Motor Trend. Where was it that year? Not even selected to be reviewed after having been on their 10 best lists for numerous years prior.
 

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Oil & Gas
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I'm glad they mentioned the problems with the interior. Those can't be ignored.
 

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Aspiring Bean Counter.
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12,279 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The Camry had been on their 10 best cars list for a number of years running; at least it was until 2006, when the new Camry came out and Toyota refused to sponsor Motor Trend. Where was it that year? Not even selected to be reviewed after having been on their 10 best lists for numerous years prior.
Motor Trend doesn't do a "10 Best" list. That's Car and Driver.

An MX-5, CTS-V, and gt500 ranked better than a zr1. Yeah ok. Who the fuck did the testing, tony romo or richrad simmons?
Again, quantitative measurements were not the only variables tested. Their beef with the ZR1 was that while it's an extremely precise tool, it requires a driver of great aptitude to be driven quickly. Pobst himself even said that he was on edge constantly while driving it and never quite felt comfortable.
 
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