So I was at a gun show here today... - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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So I was at a gun show here today...

There was a booth that said ' CHL! No Hassle! No Test!'


Basically this guy was licensing people with Utah licenses, and proclaiming reciprocity with "29 other states!"

He was basically getting around the law. By a technical standard, he was legal. You go to a 5 hour class, and bam, you have a CHL license.

So you have people who have never touched a gun in their life going to this class and getting around the law, and being armed in public.

How is this alright???


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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 08:53 PM
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Yeah, that seems as sensible as issuing drivers licenses without requiring a driving test.

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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 08:54 PM
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How is this alright???
Legal loopholes man, but this is the kind of stuff that can get a good thing ruined for everybody.
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 09:00 PM
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as I've said before I bet the Texas legislature modifies it so Texas residents have to get their chl in Texas, which means you just lost some money and time going with an out of state chl.
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
Rhabdomyolysis anyone?
 
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as I've said before I bet the Texas legislature modifies it so Texas residents have to get their chl in Texas, which means you just lost some money and time going with an out of state chl.

I agree, I would think it would be a small legal issue to pass a law that states you have to be a resident, with a military exception or something like that.

I also agree that these kind of things will ruin it for all of us.

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 10:09 PM
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So You think the side of the barn test you have to pass in the Texas class makes you automatically good enough to use a fire arm in a life or death situation? When was the last time a rapist or a car jacker told the victim "Okay, fire when ready." The Texas program gives you a false seance of security. "Okay I passed the test I can shoot." then they never fire the gun again. Utah is a lot more strict on qualifications to be an instructor than Texas. We've had a lot of people come out of class saying they learned more in a four and a half hour class than the much longer Texas program. The Texas CHL program needs a lot of fat cut out of it. Until then the Utah program is there as a second option.

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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
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So You think the side of the barn test you have to pass in the Texas class makes you automatically good enough to use a fire arm in a life or death situation? When was the last time a rapist or a car jacker told the victim "Okay, fire when ready." The Texas program gives you a false seance of security. "Okay I passed the test I can shoot." then they never fire the gun again. Utah is a lot more strict on qualifications to be an instructor than Texas. We've had a lot of people come out of class saying they learned more in a four and a half hour class than the much longer Texas program. The Texas CHL program needs a lot of fat cut out of it. Until then the Utah program is there as a second option.
No, Im not saying the Texas CHL class equips anyone for anything. Real life training is the only answer for that. This is 'bending the rules' and is quite apparent.

Texas law states that a resident must pass the course set by the state, this is just a lazy man's way around it. It enables anyone to get a license; even those that have never seen a gun in person.

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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 10:50 PM
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How is this bending the rules if there's no rules to be bent?
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 10:56 PM
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So You think the side of the barn test you have to pass in the Texas class makes you automatically good enough to use a fire arm in a life or death situation? When was the last time a rapist or a car jacker told the victim "Okay, fire when ready." The Texas program gives you a false seance of security. "Okay I passed the test I can shoot." then they never fire the gun again. Utah is a lot more strict on qualifications to be an instructor than Texas. We've had a lot of people come out of class saying they learned more in a four and a half hour class than the much longer Texas program. The Texas CHL program needs a lot of fat cut out of it. Until then the Utah program is there as a second option.
At least they make people shoot. I saw many people during my renewal that needed help with loading and shooting. So along with getting their CHL they also get some much needed range time learning their way around a gun. More than they would get in UT apparently.

Just saying......
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 11:13 PM
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At least they make people shoot. I saw many people during my renewal that needed help with loading and shooting. So along with getting their CHL they also get some much needed range time learning their way around a gun. More than they would get in UT apparently.

Just saying......
And renewal is 5 yrs down the road. a lot of those folks won't shoot again. Doesn't mean they're anymore qualified than me. I did the Utah gig 6 months ago because it saved me on time. 4 hrs vs 10. No brainer for me as busy as I was at the time.
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 11:17 PM
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And renewal is 5 yrs down the road. a lot of those folks won't shoot again. Doesn't mean they're anymore qualified than me. I did the Utah gig 6 months ago because it saved me on time. 4 hrs vs 10. No brainer for me as busy as I was at the time.
And come this legeslative season youll need a a chl issued by the state in which you reside and you'll be out 14 hours of time
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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 11:18 PM
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I agree.....But, if someone is going to carry a gun, it would be nice if they knew how to use it. Not to mention they will have the gun at home and if they have kids that can be a bad combo.

As much as I don't want more regulation, the state needs to make sure CHL holders are properly trained in gun safety.
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-10-2010, 11:55 PM
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I agree.....But, if someone is going to carry a gun, it would be nice if they knew how to use it. Not to mention they will have the gun at home and if they have kids that can be a bad combo.

As much as I don't want more regulation, the state needs to make sure CHL holders are properly trained in gun safety.
There is no way the state can ensure that the CHL holders are properly train in any stretch of the imagination. The test would have to be 5x harder and go through proficiency drills FTE's FTGB's holster drills and the like I'm not sayin this is bad just that it's not doable

As far as UT or any other state issued There are a couple issues first it might save you the stay but you will prolly take the ride. I'm betting very few cops know what states we have reciprocity with You get to go downtown while they look it up

Plus you get the added bonus of it not working to by pass the call on a 4473
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-11-2010, 12:40 AM
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Read my post. I said trained in gun safety. Some of these folks have never handled or shot a pistol. If they want to get more accurate or learn holster drawing, then they will need private lessons. I just feel that the state needs to make sure that anyone who wants a CHL can get one. And that they know basic gun safety for everyone else's sake. Think car DL.
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-11-2010, 12:58 AM
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as I've said before I bet the Texas legislature modifies it so Texas residents have to get their chl in Texas, which means you just lost some money and time going with an out of state chl.
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Originally Posted by flashstang04 View Post
I agree, I would think it would be a small legal issue to pass a law that states you have to be a resident, with a military exception or something like that.

I also agree that these kind of things will ruin it for all of us.
When I lived in Colorado, I learned they had a Military exemption. $152.50, in cash, and I would be issued a Colorado CHL. No class, no test, simply nothing.
They figured since I was in the Army at the time, I was well enough trained.

I was going to get my Colorado CHL, and move on back to Texas.
The lady at the Sheriff's office said If I wasnt a resident of Colorado any longer, the license wouldnt be valid.

I guess that IS NOT the case? You can me a Texas Resident, and carry a Utah (or other state) CHL, and be legit? damn it.

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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-11-2010, 09:41 AM
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I have a friend that moved from Texas to Utah and he has been telling me about how cheap and easy the CHL is to get there.

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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-11-2010, 12:53 PM
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The problem I have with the Utah work around is it doesn't teach you the Texas laws on CHL. So you're not getting educated in that regard. Counter argument is, you can read up on that. Sure, but how many would or do? Same argument on whether people know how to handle a gun or not. Utah doesn't teach you how to handle a gun.

I'd much rather have a class that teaches you about the state laws AND has a shooting requirement, rather than 4 hour blitz of "real" world scenarios. IMO, the student should be responsible for additional training.

How many people on the road know how to effectively drive a car in rain? Snow or other "real world" occurrences? Drivers ed taught you about those scenarios, but you never actually did the drill.

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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-11-2010, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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The point I was getting at is that you have people who have never held a gun that were at that show, thought it would be 'cool as hell to carry a piece' , and on a whim went to the 5 hour "training" at the local hotel and now are walking around town armed. Just doesn't make sense to me. It is an enabler.

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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-11-2010, 02:21 PM
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I agree, I would think it would be a small legal issue to pass a law that states you have to be a resident, with a military exception or something like that.

I also agree that these kind of things will ruin it for all of us.
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The point I was getting at is that you have people who have never held a gun that were at that show, thought it would be 'cool as hell to carry a piece' , and on a whim went to the 5 hour "training" at the local hotel and now are walking around town armed. Just doesn't make sense to me. It is an enabler.
I agree with you, there. Myself, I wouldn't mind a ruling that said TX residents must have a TX CHL in order to carry in TX. From what I've seen on the Utah course, I don't like it.

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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-11-2010, 02:46 PM
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I agree, I would think it would be a small legal issue to pass a law that states you have to be a resident, with a military exception or something like that.

I also agree that these kind of things will ruin it for all of us.
How is this going to ruin things for all of us? There should not be anything like a CHL in the first place; requiring one should be what is against the law. Instead there should be no laws restricting what you can carry. A CHL is you submitting to the bureaucratic machine by jumping through their hoops so they can allow you to exercise a right that they had no business regulating or interfering with in the first place. Do you need to beg for permission, pay a fee, and get a license to have your 1st amendment right to free speech? Do you believe that persons without a license to exercise their 5th amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure should have their homes searched without probable cause or a search warrant?

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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-11-2010, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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How is this going to ruin things for all of us? There should not be anything like a CHL in the first place; requiring one should be what is against the law. Instead there should be no laws restricting what you can carry. A CHL is you submitting to the bureaucratic machine by jumping through their hoops so they can allow you to exercise a right that they had no business regulating or interfering with in the first place. Do you need to beg for permission, pay a fee, and get a license to have your 1st amendment right to free speech? Do you believe that persons without a license to exercise their 5th amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure should have their homes searched without probable cause or a search warrant?
You are arguing semantics and aren't even in the same conversation. If I am out with my family and kill someone trying to rob us at knife point I answer some questions and go home. If I didn't have a chl and started screaming "1st amendment!!" I would be answering why I was carrying a concealed deadly weapon illegally.

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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-11-2010, 04:03 PM
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How is this going to ruin things for all of us? There should not be anything like a CHL in the first place; requiring one should be what is against the law. Instead there should be no laws restricting what you can carry. A CHL is you submitting to the bureaucratic machine by jumping through their hoops so they can allow you to exercise a right that they had no business regulating or interfering with in the first place. Do you need to beg for permission, pay a fee, and get a license to have your 1st amendment right to free speech? Do you believe that persons without a license to exercise their 5th amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure should have their homes searched without probable cause or a search warrant?
Or their 4th amendent right against unreasonable search and seizure as well.

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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-11-2010, 06:55 PM
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How is this going to ruin things for all of us? There should not be anything like a CHL in the first place; requiring one should be what is against the law. Instead there should be no laws restricting what you can carry. A CHL is you submitting to the bureaucratic machine by jumping through their hoops so they can allow you to exercise a right that they had no business regulating or interfering with in the first place. Do you need to beg for permission, pay a fee, and get a license to have your 1st amendment right to free speech? Do you believe that persons without a license to exercise their 5th amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure should have their homes searched without probable cause or a search warrant?
this

Florida is also that easy.

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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-11-2010, 07:01 PM
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In some states all you have to do is pay a small fee and pass a background check and you have your CHL. No class or range time. No hoop jumping.

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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 01:15 AM
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Th Utah class i took was pretty good. We actually went over TX law and Utah law. Very similar for the most part. I learned a lot from the class. At the end the instructor went over the TX test in group setting. I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to pass. I haven't taken TX yet, guess I will if what an earlier poster said is true, but what are the shooting requirements? How big of a target/how far/what % need to be hits?
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 07:19 AM
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Th Utah class i took was pretty good. We actually went over TX law and Utah law. Very similar for the most part. I learned a lot from the class. At the end the instructor went over the TX test in group setting. I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to pass. I haven't taken TX yet, guess I will if what an earlier poster said is true, but what are the shooting requirements? How big of a target/how far/what % need to be hits?
If you're worried about not passing the shooting portion, dont. It's very rare for anyone to fail.

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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 08:46 AM
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How is this going to ruin things for all of us? There should not be anything like a CHL in the first place; requiring one should be what is against the law. Instead there should be no laws restricting what you can carry. A CHL is you submitting to the bureaucratic machine by jumping through their hoops so they can allow you to exercise a right that they had no business regulating or interfering with in the first place. Do you need to beg for permission, pay a fee, and get a license to have your 1st amendment right to free speech? Do you believe that persons without a license to exercise their 5th amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure should have their homes searched without probable cause or a search warrant?
AMEN!!!!

fuck getting taxed left and right and having to beg and pay bribes for "privileges" which are actually RIGHTS as outlined in the constitution
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 09:19 AM
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The problem I have with the Utah work around is it doesn't teach you the Texas laws on CHL. So you're not getting educated in that regard. Counter argument is, you can read up on that. Sure, but how many would or do? Same argument on whether people know how to handle a gun or not. Utah doesn't teach you how to handle a gun.

I'd much rather have a class that teaches you about the state laws AND has a shooting requirement, rather than 4 hour blitz of "real" world scenarios. IMO, the student should be responsible for additional training.

How many people on the road know how to effectively drive a car in rain? Snow or other "real world" occurrences? Drivers ed taught you about those scenarios, but you never actually did the drill.
The Utah Instructor teaches both, Texas and Utah laws are very similar by the way.
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this

Florida is also that easy.
Florida is easier to get.
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I agree.....But, if someone is going to carry a gun, it would be nice if they knew how to use it. Not to mention they will have the gun at home and if they have kids that can be a bad combo.

As much as I don't want more regulation, the state needs to make sure CHL holders are properly trained in gun safety.
You know people who don't have a CHL can still have guns at home. Also that kind of bull crap line of thinking "the state needs to make sure CHL holders are properly trained in gun safety", is what got us where we are now. The government should not have the ability to tell us if we qualify for our constitutional rights.
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And come this legeslative season youll need a a chl issued by the state in which you reside and you'll be out 14 hours of time
I would like to know where you heard this?
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No, Im not saying the Texas CHL class equips anyone for anything. Real life training is the only answer for that. This is 'bending the rules' and is quite apparent.

Texas law states that a resident must pass the course set by the state, this is just a lazy man's way around it. It enables anyone to get a license; even those that have never seen a gun in person.
How is it bending the rules if the Governor signs off on which states were share reciprocity with?
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If you're worried about not passing the shooting portion, dont. It's very rare for anyone to fail.
that right there should show you how much "training" you get out of the Texas program.
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AMEN!!!!

fuck getting taxed left and right and having to beg and pay bribes for "privileges" which are actually RIGHTS as outlined in the constitution
yes sir!

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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 09:22 AM
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Th Utah class i took was pretty good. We actually went over TX law and Utah law. Very similar for the most part. I learned a lot from the class. At the end the instructor went over the TX test in group setting. I don't think you need to be a rocket scientist to pass. I haven't taken TX yet, guess I will if what an earlier poster said is true, but what are the shooting requirements? How big of a target/how far/what % need to be hits?
Glad you liked it, we have people in almost every class tell us that they learned way more in 4 1/2 hours than they did in the full Texas class.

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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 09:31 AM Thread Starter
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Glad you liked it, we have people in almost every class tell us that they learned way more in 4 1/2 hours than they did in the full Texas class.
Now it makes sense.

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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 09:34 AM
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I would like to know where you heard this?
4 hour utah class + 10hour texas class = 14 hours the amount of time that will be taken when the TX CHL laws are changed so that you have to get your license from the state in which you reside
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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 11:07 AM
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4 hour utah class + 10hour texas class = 14 hours the amount of time that will be taken when the TX CHL laws are changed so that you have to get your license from the state in which you reside
where did you hear that reciprocity was going away?

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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 11:09 AM
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I wouldn't be worried about passing the shooting portion, but that's sort of my point. If it's that easy, why have to go thru it? It won't prepare anyone to the extent these guys are talking about. I bet nobody fails any portion of the class after hearing the test questions. Waste of time IMO. It's bullshit I can't carry unlicensed anyway.
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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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The point is that it enables people to carry on a whim. Having to go through a little bit of effort weeds out some bad/inexperienced element. The brochure itself caters to 'being easy', and 'hassle free'. Im not talking to you guys that know guns and have a Utah license, but the people I saw that just bought their first Hi-point and want to show their buds they have a gun in McDonalds. Sorry, you just can't argue against it.

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post #35 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 11:50 AM
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where did you hear that reciprocity was going away?
Theres been hints in the legislative community that the carry laws will be modified so that your chl will have to be from the state you have primary residence in to avoid loop holes and other legalities. The reciprocity will still exist in between states.
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post #36 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-16-2010, 02:30 PM
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Theres been hints in the legislative community that the carry laws will be modified so that your chl will have to be from the state you have primary residence in to avoid loop holes and other legalities. The reciprocity will still exist in between states.
Internet forum rumors FTL?

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