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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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51% Question

Can a business post up a 51% sign even if they don't actually derive 51% or more of their business from the sale of alcohol. I would assume if it is posted that it is true and I wouldn't carry, but if it is untrue would it have the force of law?

My company had a meeting this morning at a hotel right next door and I noticed on the way out that they had a 51% sign up. I don't know a ton about hotels but is it possible that they actually make most of their profit on the sale of alcohol? It is a Wyndham Hotel in Las Colinas, they do have a little eating area downstairs, FYI.

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 10:26 AM
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Well, I wouldn't stay in that hotel then haha!

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 11:00 AM
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some hotels the restaurant or bar is a separate company from the hotel that would make is feasible that 51% would be in effect. Wouldn't be in the hotel itself but would be in the other areas

It has been argued that 51% could be time derived also IE chili's may be a 51% at 9pm but not at 1pm I don't know how or if that would stand up in court. but my standard answer has was always been if your concealing it properly you don't get caught unless you need it.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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I though about that, but this is a 2 or 3 story hotel in Las Colinas. I called it an eating area because it is more like a little lunch buffet, definitely not a restaurant.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
-Gerald Ford/Thomas Jefferson

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 02:17 PM
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Seems fishy to me. Any way to call TABC and verify they're 51%. That's a lot of booze when compared to the price of a room!

Here's the rules:
TX Gov't Code
GC 9411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES.
(a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter
25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51
percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage
Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business
premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).
(b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code,
or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety
Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or
nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements
of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign
(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give
notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person
licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises.
The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least
one inch in height and must include on its face the number "51" printed
in solid red at least five inches in height. The sign shall be displayed in
a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) A business that has a permit or license issued under the Alcoholic
Beverage Code and that is not required to display a sign under
this section may be required to display a sign under Section 11.041 or
61.1 1, Alcoholic Beverage Code.
(e) This section does not apply to a business that has a food and
beverage certificate issued under the Alcoholic Beverage Code.
include on its face the number "51 ".

TABC:
Sec. 104.06. MONITORING OF GROSS RECEIPTS. (a) On the issuance and renewal of a license or permit that allows on-premises consumption of any alcoholic beverage the commission shall determine whether the holder receives, or for the issuance of a license or permit is to receive, 51 percent or more of the gross receipts of the premises for which the license or permit is issued from the holder’s sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption.
(b) The commission shall:
(1) adopt rules for making a determination under Subsection (a); and
(2) require a holder of a license or permit to provide any information or document that the commission needs to make a determination.
(c) If the commission makes a determination under Subsection (a) that a holder of a license or permit receives 51 percent or more of the gross receipts of the premises from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages, the holder shall comply with the requirements of Section 31, Article 4413(29ee), Revised Statutes, and shall continue to comply with those requirements until the commission determines that the holder receives less than 51 percent of the gross receipts of the premises from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 02:23 PM
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TABC Records:

License #: MB209152

Trade Name: WYNDHAM LAS COLINAS GARDEN HOTEL
Owner: MBWH INC.
Location Address:
110 W JOHN CARPENTER FREEWAY
IRVING , TX 750392001
Mailing Address:
110 W JOHN CARPENTER FREEWAY
IRVING , TX 750392001
County: DALLAS Orig. Issue Date: 1/29/1990
Status: Expired Exp. Date: 1/28/2008
Wine Percent:
Location Phone No.: 9726501600

Subordinates: CB,LB
Related To:

----------

License #: MB179698

Trade Name: WYNDHAM LAS COLINAS GARDEN HOTEL
Owner: MBWH INC.
Location Address:
160 W CARPENTER FREEWAY
IRVING , TX 75062
Mailing Address:
3400 LTV CENTER LEGAL DEPARTMENT
2001 ROSS AVENUE
DALLAS , TX 75201
County: DALLAS Orig. Issue Date: 2/25/1986
Status: Expired Exp. Date: 2/24/1990
Wine Percent:
Location Phone No.: 2146501600

Subordinates: CB,LB
Related To:

----------

License #: MB661361

Trade Name: WYNDHAM LAS COLINAS GARDEN HOTEL
Owner: SUR-TEX BEVERAGE COMPANY LLC
Location Address:
110 W JOHN CARPENTER FREEWAY
IRVING , TX 750392001
Mailing Address:
110 W JOHN CARPENTER FWY
DALLAS , TX 750392001
County: DALLAS Orig. Issue Date: 5/31/2007
Status: Vol Suspense Exp. Date: 5/30/2011
Wine Percent:
Location Phone No.: 9726501600

Subordinates: CB,LB,PE
Related To:

----------

License #: MB741287

Trade Name: WYNDHAM LAS COLINAS GARDEN HOTEL
Owner: W2005 WYN HOTELS L.P.
Location Address:
110 W JOHN CARPENTER FREEWAY
IRVING , TX 75039
Mailing Address:
545 E JOHN CARPENTER FWY STE 1400
IRVING , TX 750633958
County: DALLAS Orig. Issue Date: 1/29/2010
Status: Current Exp. Date: 1/28/2012
Wine Percent:
Location Phone No.: 817-548-2878

Subordinates: CB,LB,PE
Related To:

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 09:41 AM
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If you look at their license, it will say either 'sign = red' or 'sign = blue'. That is determined by TABC, and ultimately what they say goes.

If the license says 'sign = red', then the place is 51%. see here TexasCHLforum.com is a good resource for CHL questions.

I don't think that they can post a 51% sign if they don't have the sign=red on their license. Might even be illegal.


As an aside, golf pro shops are sometimes like this too. At Riverside there is, or was, a 51% sign at the food and beverage bar. I never bothered to look at their license, though, but I've wondered if they really sell that much alcohol.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 10:42 AM
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Signs are for pussies, i carry everywhere. I was just at he fair yesterday i was packing like a mule and loaded for bear and ninjas!

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOSTED32V View Post
Signs are for pussies, i carry everywhere. I was just at he fair yesterday i was packing like a mule and loaded for bear and ninjas!
Pretty sure you can carry at the fair legally.

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow06 View Post
Pretty sure you can carry at the fair legally.
You can.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOSTED32V View Post
Signs are for pussies, i carry everywhere. I was just at he fair yesterday i was packing like a mule and loaded for bear and ninjas!
werd!
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Originally Posted by slow06 View Post
Pretty sure you can carry at the fair legally.
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Originally Posted by silverhatch View Post
You can.
yup, i was yesterday
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 02:43 AM
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Sorry to thread "hi-jack"....

If you manage a restaurant/bar lets say that does less than 50% in LBW... Are you allowed to keep a weapon in a restaurant?

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Sorry to thread "hi-jack"....

If you manage a restaurant/bar lets say that does less than 50% in LBW... Are you allowed to keep a weapon in a restaurant?
No problem, good question.
I would wait for another answer, but my hunch would be that if you carried it on your person with a CHL you would be good. No CHL just laying it in a drawer or back room, I dunno.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
-Gerald Ford/Thomas Jefferson

"A Republic, if you can keep it"
- Benjamin Franklin

The way to peaceably remove elected officials who deviate from the constitution of the United States of America...
www.blowoutcongress.com

Last edited by slow06; 09-30-2010 at 02:28 PM.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Sorry to thread "hi-jack"....

If you manage a restaurant/bar lets say that does less than 50% in LBW... Are you allowed to keep a weapon in a restaurant?
I know that out here in cali businesses are treated like your home in terms of your right to have a firearm to protect yourself, though of course the same fear for severe bodily harm or death prerequisite still applies. You can't shoot a fleeing robber in the back and think that you won't see the inside of a jail cell for a long time.

That said, I don't recall any caveat that included or discluded the sale of alcohol.

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 09-30-2010, 02:38 PM
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You can legally carry. Question is, is it against corporate policy for you to carry "weapons"?

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