Be careful who you sell a gun to. - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
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Be careful who you sell a gun to.

This is as fucked up as a football bat.

In a trial before Federal Judge Sam Sparks, government lawyers conceded Texas resident Paul Copeland did not know his buyer was an illegal alien, but the jury they should convict him anyway because he “had reasonable cause to believe” he was selling to an illegal alien because the two men and a boy who were present at his table at the time of the sale: 1) were Hispanic, 2) spoke Spanish, and 3) wore cowboy clothing. And the jury did as asked. Assistant U.S. Attorney Jennifer Freel acted as lead prosecutor in the case.
The firearm transaction at issue occurred on January 16, 2010, at a gunshow at the North Austin Events Center, at 10601 N. Lamar Blvd., in Austin, Texas. Undercover ATF agents followed Mr. Huerta, his son, and another Hispanic male, Hipolito Aviles, around the “Texas Gunshow” that day, and claimed to observe Huerta’s transaction. Austin P.D. used Copeland’s case as the reason to close down the gunshow, leading to a protest by Austin residents in front of APD headquarters on January 25.
Mr. Copeland is a 56 year old Cedar Creek resident and Vietnam veteran who liked to buy, sell, and trade firearms as a hobby. On January 16, however, he had the misfortune to sell a handgun to Leonel Huerta Sr., who spoke both English and Spanish. Huerta Sr. negotiated his purchase from Copeland in English, showing Copeland his Texas Driver’s License. At Copeland’s trial Huerta admitted on the witness stand, that he is in the country illegally, (Huerta Sr. had previously admitted this fact to Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE) Special Agent Leo Buentello). ATF Agent Shawn Kang claimed he saw Huerta later hand off the gun to Aviles. Despite these admissions, Huerta Sr. was never arrested, charged, or deported. Instead, his presence at the gunshow was used to entrap an American citizen into an unwitting violation of a federal gun control law. Huerta Sr., who is a resident of the City of Austin, appeared as a witness at the trial, admitted he was in the country illegally before federal prosecutors and a federal judge, yet he was allowed to leave the courtroom under his own power. To date Huerta Sr. has not been prosecuted for his purchase, possession, or disposition of the handgun he bought from Copeland, while Copeland is now a convicted felon.
“Instead of busting the illegal alien for buying, they bust the citizen for selling,” commented Paul Velte, attorney and founder of Peaceable Texans for Firearms Rights, a gun-owners rights advocacy group from Austin. Velte asked, “who was in a better position to know the buyer’s immigration status, the buyer or the seller?” He also said, “What happened to Paul Copeland should enrage all Americans. The Federal Government is using illegal aliens to entrap citizens lawfully exercising their right to sell firearms. The illegal alien walks free, but the citizen gets convicted. The same government charged with controlling immigration is the one using illegal immigrants to attack its own citizens. Does this make any sense? It makes no sense unless the purpose is to discourage attendance at gunshows and frighten citizens from selling their firearms to other citizens.”
Velte pointed out that “There is no way for a citizen to know who is here legally or not. In fact, under Austin’s ‘sanctuary city’ policy, not even the police officer at the door of the gunshow was allowed to ask a person’s immigration status, yet the average Texan inside the show is expected to assume that a person standing before them with a Texas driver’s license is in the country illegally just because they look Mexican and speak Spanish.”
Velte noted that the federal government’s lawsuit against Arizona was based on that very type of conduct: Concluding someone could be here illegally based on their looks or their language. Velte said gun owners in his group are outraged, and they want to know:
• Why is the illegal alien who purchased the gun, Leonel Huerta Sr., still living in Austin?
• Why does he still have a Texas Driver’s license?
• Why is ATF using illegal aliens to set up and convict American citizens?
• What has he been promised for his cooperation?
• Why has he not been prosecuted? He committed three distinct crimes: he purchased a firearm knowing he was an illegal alien, he possessed the firearm, and he transferred the handgun to another illegal alien (Hippolito Aviles, who was convicted and given time served on June 30, 2010).
• Why has Huerta Sr. not been deported?
Contact: Paul Velte, 512-296-5563
Peaceable Texans for Firearms Rights
website: http://www.io.com/~velte/pt.htm

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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 11:13 AM
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Can I get a reference to this story?

EDIT
See below

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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 11:21 AM
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Is the NRA doing anything about this?

That is some corrupt shit right there!
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 11:23 AM
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It just goes to show that even AZ's SB 1070 has a flaw...allowing the LEOs to assume legal immigration status if presented a state issued ID card or DL.

This vet should not have been convicted, but it's Austin (probably the 4th most liberal city in the country).

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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 11:42 AM
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That's bullshit... The buyer should be responsible... From now on ask for Social security card, ID and if possible green card or passport.

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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 11:52 AM
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I don't like selling guns to folks I don't know. If I sell one up here, sadly it'll be with a 4473.

Give me a dollar.
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 12:30 PM
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No words.... f'd up for certain.

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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 01:32 PM
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15 years ago, Blacks were "IN". Now Mexicans are "IN". Just look at who the young white girls run with now. The more they look and act like a Bandito , the more they like it. Baggy pants, a sleeveless undershirt and a hat and the girls run down the street with a mattress on their back.
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 01:40 PM
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15 years ago, Blacks were "IN". Now Mexicans are "IN". Just look at who the young white girls run with now. The more they look and act like a Bandito , the more they like it. Baggy pants, a sleeveless undershirt and a hat and the girls run down the street with a mattress on their back.
What are you talking about and how is this related to the original post?




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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr_fiux View Post
That's bullshit... The buyer should be responsible... From now on ask for Social security card, ID and if possible green card or passport.
Do you hear this Jose? Be sure to bring your immigration status when you come to the house!!!
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 01:43 PM
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What are you talking about and how is this related to the original post?
I think his girl slept with a Mexican dude and he's all pissed now
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 01:46 PM
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Nope, never happened.
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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 01:55 PM
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Nope, never happened.
He didn't sell the guy a gun because he thought Mexicans are cool. He sold him a gun because it's legal. You're a douche.

Give me a dollar.
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Fast Fox View Post
15 years ago, Blacks were "IN". Now Mexicans are "IN". Just look at who the young white girls run with now. The more they look and act like a Bandito , the more they like it. Baggy pants, a sleeveless undershirt and a hat and the girls run down the street with a mattress on their back.
Lmao! I really hope you are not serious. Among my peers, acting like a "bandito" will ensure that you never get laid, whereas carrying youself appropriately will.
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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 02:32 PM
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The more they look and act like a Bandito , the more they like it.
Thats explains why i never get laid!
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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 03:24 PM
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So, cops can't assume someone is illegal and stop them for those reasons, yet this guy was supposed to?

This absolutley cannot stand.

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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 03:28 PM
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Do you hear this Jose? Be sure to bring your immigration status when you come to the house!!!
LMAO! Will I'm screwed on that. Would you go for a photocopy of my birth certificate? Shit... I was born overseas.. never mind




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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 03:45 PM
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LMAO! Will I'm screwed on that. Would you go for a photocopy of my birth certificate? Shit... I was born overseas.. never mind
Just make one up. It worked for Obama....
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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 04:11 PM
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Just make one up. It worked for Obama....
Can I say I'm Muslim?




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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 04:16 PM
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Can I say I'm Muslim?
I wouldnt at a gun show
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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 05:07 PM
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Moral to Story... If you're Hispanic, people don't sell you guns now.

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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 05:10 PM
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That's [email protected] up!!
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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 05:19 PM
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Wow... that is all sorts of screwed up.
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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 05:39 PM
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I wouldnt at a gun show
LOL!

Back to the original subject. That's seriously fucked up.




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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 06:01 PM
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Yup, as fukked up as a football bat.


Jose, make sure you bring:

[x] SSN card
[x] Birth Certificate
[x] Proof of employment
[x] Criminal Background Check
[x] Medical Portfolio
[x] Proof of insurance
[x] Credit Report


Oh, and I will have to get you on tape saying you are a citizen without any prohibitions from owning a firearm!

Oh, and I forgot you have to submit to a blood sample!
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post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 06:09 PM
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Thats why I only buy guns, its bad enough selling car parts, let alone firearms.


That really sucks for that dude, and even worse they didnt do anything to the illegal.

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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 06:13 PM
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Yup, as fukked up as a football bat.


Jose, make sure you bring:

[x] SSN card
[x] Birth Certificate
[x] Proof of employment
[x] Criminal Background Check
[x] Medical Portfolio
[x] Proof of insurance
[x] Credit Report


Oh, and I will have to get you on tape saying you are a citizen without any prohibitions from owning a firearm!

Oh, and I forgot you have to submit to a blood sample!
LOL! You forgot CHL!




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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 06:18 PM
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Nice little setup this was, what a fucking joke.
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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 10:04 PM
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Federal Judge... ATF.... are you guys seeing a pattern here yet? This has nothing to do with TX or Austin.

Maybe Sherriff Joe can help you see a similar pattern.

Utterly amazing how the feds can sue one guy for allegedly racially profiling while bringing a lawsuit on another guy for not racially profiling.... or is it?
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post #31 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 10:48 PM
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Federal Judge... ATF.... are you guys seeing a pattern here yet? This has nothing to do with TX or Austin.

Maybe Sherriff Joe can help you see a similar pattern.

Utterly amazing how the feds can sue one guy for allegedly racially profiling while bringing a lawsuit on another guy for not racially profiling.... or is it?
You hit the nail right on the head with every bit of that.
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post #32 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010, 10:49 PM
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That old saw about the liberty tree and the blood of tyrants comes to mind.

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post #33 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-04-2010, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyS View Post
Utterly amazing how the feds can sue one guy for allegedly racially profiling while bringing a lawsuit on another guy for not racially profiling.... or is it?
Quoted for truth.

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post #34 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-04-2010, 02:42 PM
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Anybody know where to get a better/different source for this story? Would like to know if this is the whole truth, would also like to get court documents/quotes if possible.

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post #35 of 35 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyS View Post
Federal Judge... ATF.... are you guys seeing a pattern here yet? This has nothing to do with TX or Austin.

Maybe Sherriff Joe can help you see a similar pattern.

Utterly amazing how the feds can sue one guy for allegedly racially profiling while bringing a lawsuit on another guy for not racially profiling.... or is it?
........


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hass View Post
Exactly. Those of us who know what those who work for the govt are capable of, don't want to rock an already unstable boat. You don't want to fuck with any of the alphabet boys.

Remember Jesse Trentadue and the McVeigh shit? He was recently in the news because he is still pursuing the truth about his brother Kenneth Trentadue's death and the tapes he recently received from the gubmt were doctored.

From Wikipedia on Kenneth Trentadue.....


Oklahoma County District Attorney Bob Macy and federal officials determined that Trentadue had committed suicide by hanging himself. Officials tried to obtain the permission of Trentadue's family to cremate the body, but the family declined, since they found the claims of suicide suspicious. The government then performed an autopsy on Trentadue, but did not notify the family.

When the family received the body from the prison authorities, it was covered in wounds, cuts, and bruises, leading the family to believe Trentadue had been tortured and beaten before his death. Trentadue had sustained three heavy blows to the head, and his throat had been cut; prison authorities claimed the wounds were self-inflicted. The day after Trentadue's death, the state medical examiner's lead investigator filed a complaint reporting irregularities in the investigation of Trentadue's death: the coroner was at first not permitted into the cell where Trentadue had died, and the cell itself was washed out before any investigation could be performed. The complaint went on to state that, although the exact cause of death could not be determined, the claim that Trentadue had committed suicide was not consistent with the medical examiner's findings, and Trentadue appeared to have been tortured.

Kenneth's brother Jesse began gathering information on his brother's death, still with no knowledge of a possible connection to the Oklahoma City bombing case. After being contacted by David Hammer, a convicted murderer who had struck up a friendship with Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh on death row, and had read about the Trentadue case in the newspapers, Jesse and others ultimately came to believe that Kenneth had been mistakenly identified by authorities as an accomplice in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. It is supposed that Trentadue was interrogated to make him talk, and died during the interrogation. After being shown a picture of Kenneth Trentadue, Timothy McVeigh is reported to have said, "Now I know why Trentadue was killed, because they thought he was Richard Guthrie."

It is contended that Trentadue was mistaken for Richard Lee Guthrie Jr., a member of the Aryan Republican Army, members of which were thought to have associated with McVeigh, and were the subject of FBI investigation. The two men shared a strong physical resemblance—they were the same height, weight, and build, both had thick mustaches, and both had dragon tattoos on their left arm. Both are thought to have resembled the description of "John Doe 2", the never-apprehended possible third conspirator in the bombing along with McVeigh and Terry Nichols. Less than one year after Trentadue's death, Guthrie would also be found dead in his prison cell, the day before he was scheduled to give a television interview. His death was ruled a suicide by hanging.

In 1999, Alden Gillis Baker, an inmate who had been imprisoned in Oklahoma City's Federal Transfer Center at the same time as Trentadue, came forward to volunteer to testify that he had witnessed Trentadue's murder. According to FBI documentation, the authenticity of which is vigorously disputed by the Department of Justice, Baker was even sharing a cell with Trentadue on the night of his death. In December 1999, Baker reported to a lawyer being afraid for his life. In August 2000, he was found dead in his cell, a suicide by hanging.
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