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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-25-2010, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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M4 replacement in Afghanistan

So I have read a few stories about how the military is looking at replacing the M4 in Afghanistan due to its lack of range and the 5.56 being weak. I know this is not the first time they have thought about it but what rifle would you choose as a replacement?

Try and keep it realistic as far as price, handling and ammo availability.
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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-25-2010, 09:50 PM
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DPMS Panther AP4 .308

Last edited by wickedblkgt; 09-08-2010 at 12:18 PM.
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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-25-2010, 10:09 PM
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DPMS Panther AP4 .308
Where the .308 round would solve some of the range and bullet size the AP4 or any other AR10 still leaves the dated gas system in place.

My guess would be the HK416 or a variant.
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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 04:40 AM
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Seems to me FN's SCAR is working out very well for the SF guys which always seems to be a testing bed for your standard military forces.
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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 06:31 AM
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Seems to me FN's SCAR is working out very well for the SF guys which always seems to be a testing bed for your standard military forces.
Actually last year the H&K beat out FN for the Marines...
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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 08:35 AM
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Seems to me FN's SCAR is working out very well for the SF guys which always seems to be a testing bed for your standard military forces.
Funny you mention that.

I was standing by yesterday as three green berets finger fucked a SCAR for 20 minutes trying to get the barrel off, and switch to a shorty one. There is 3-5 screws, they all must me torqued, and tightened in a certain sequence.

cool thing about the M4 is if you want the shorter barrel, its two pins, and you add your new upper on. Your sights stay ZEROD, and it takes about 20 seconds. Put the long barrel back on, and your old sight is still tightned down, youre still zeroed.

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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 01:41 PM
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Actually last year the H&K beat out FN for the Marines...
Didn't know that but not really too suprised, they make a nice product as well.
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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 01:42 PM
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Funny you mention that.

I was standing by yesterday as three green berets finger fucked a SCAR for 20 minutes trying to get the barrel off, and switch to a shorty one. There is 3-5 screws, they all must me torqued, and tightened in a certain sequence.

cool thing about the M4 is if you want the shorter barrel, its two pins, and you add your new upper on. Your sights stay ZEROD, and it takes about 20 seconds. Put the long barrel back on, and your old sight is still tightned down, youre still zeroed.
That is provided you either have two optical setups or use only use the factory battle sights.
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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 03:10 PM
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What about the super-bad-ass Lewis Machine and Tool .308?

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/...n-lmt-308-mws/

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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 03:20 PM
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That is provided you either have two optical setups or use only use the factory battle sights.
Believe me. This unit has enough optics.

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post #11 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 03:33 PM
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Believe me. This unit has enough optics.
Trade you optics for a ride-along?????
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post #12 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 03:54 PM
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Believe me. This unit has enough optics.
Convert to piston drive and problem solved.
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post #13 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 04:51 PM
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AK47s Battle tested and proven.

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post #14 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 05:21 PM
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AK47s Battle tested and proven.
Sure, for close in butchering.

I have an AK, and I'll tell you it's no where near as accurate as an AR at 300+ yards.
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post #15 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 05:35 PM
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Sure, for close in butchering.

I have an AK, and I'll tell you it's no where near as accurate as an AR at 300+ yards.
I have one also, and I agree on accuracy, but every other aspect it is far superior.

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post #16 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by no4njnk View Post
So I have read a few stories about how the military is looking at replacing the M4 in Afghanistan due to its lack of range and the 5.56 being weak. I know this is not the first time they have thought about it but what rifle would you choose as a replacement?

Try and keep it realistic as far as price, handling and ammo availability.
Hasnt been determined yet, but many squads are are getting 1-2 7.62s to contend with the needed range.
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post #17 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 08:47 PM
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Hasnt been determined yet, but many squads are are getting 1-2 7.62s to contend with the needed range.
There are alot of M1A's/M14's being used by some of the designated marksmen.
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post #18 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 09:25 PM
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Tavor TAR-21
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post #19 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 10:19 PM
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That is one ugly fucking firearm...
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post #20 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-26-2010, 10:47 PM
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i would say m1a in synthetic for the boys.

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post #21 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
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I have one also, and I agree on accuracy, but every other aspect it is far superior.
If I needed a weapon for 200 yards and under, and it needed to work in ANY condition, I'd choose the AK.

I've benched the AK and I'll tell you, it can't shoot in the same hole twice to save it's life.
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post #22 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 05:55 AM
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There are alot of M1A's/M14's being used by some of the designated marksmen.
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i would say m1a in synthetic for the boys.
That would be another great choice.

I would love to have either of these two:

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=19

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=22

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post #23 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 06:39 AM
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I thought that was what the 6.8 SPC round was for?

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post #24 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 03trubluGT View Post
That would be another great choice.

I would love to have either of these two:

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=19

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=22
The bottom would be better for all around use.
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post #25 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 07:22 PM
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The bottom would be better for all around use.
The bottom one has a 16" barrell and the other has an 18" barrell. I would like the 18" one for distance.
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post #26 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 07:27 PM
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What about the super-bad-ass Lewis Machine and Tool .308?

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/...n-lmt-308-mws/

That's just sick! Sweet looking rifle.

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post #27 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 07:38 PM
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The bottom one has a 16" barrell and the other has an 18" barrell. I would like the 18" one for distance.
Maybe, one of our local cops bought one and he said it shot really good, killed a pig at around 250yds with an eotech mounted on it.
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post #28 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 08:59 PM
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Maybe, one of our local cops bought one and he said it shot really good, killed a pig at around 250yds with an eotech mounted on it.
I really wouldn't brag about shooting a fellow officer...
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post #29 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 09:13 PM
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Another pic of the LMT

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post #30 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-27-2010, 11:03 PM
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Still a 5.56 rifle.

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post #31 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-28-2010, 01:06 PM
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ar in 7.62x39

seems like a lot of the problems have been worked out in this.
Would be cheap swap over compared to a .308 AR.
It has a lot going for it..... but it would never happen

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post #32 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-28-2010, 01:35 PM
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ar in 7.62x39

seems like a lot of the problems have been worked out in this.
Would be cheap swap over compared to a .308 AR.
It has a lot going for it..... but it would never happen

What was that???

http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/product...=1826&cat=1923
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post #33 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-28-2010, 02:36 PM
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sorry i was refering to the bureacratic bs that would ever keep it from being adopted.
i think there would be some resistance against a gun 'shooting the enemies ammo'
to me ....that's an advantage
but i have to admit a piston drive ar in 762x39 would probably be the way to go

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post #34 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-28-2010, 03:01 PM
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sorry i was refering to the bureacratic bs that would ever keep it from being adopted.
i think there would be some resistance against a gun 'shooting the enemies ammo'
to me ....that's an advantage
but i have to admit a piston drive ar in 762x39 would probably be the way to go
I agree with you, but there are some cons to consider:

1. An AK is the best "I have to depend on my rifle in ANY circumstance" rifle because of it's design. If you go chambering a military rifle with the round and do not change the design, then you've just defeated the purpose.

2. With ammo interchangability, you have one issue. If you capture a rifle, the enemy can overload ammo so that it blows up your rifle and possibly the operator.

I've heard of ammo tampering in instances of warfare and in "civilian" life. I heard that back in the day police would overcharge ammo and "leave" it in high crime areas knowing whoever found it would probably try to use it and damage the gun beyond repair and possibly hurt themselves in the process.
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post #35 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-28-2010, 03:19 PM
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oh i can think of other cons as well

1. x39mm ammo not very accurate beyond 200yrds, maybe 300 .... in virtually any gun
2. ammo is very dirty and below our 5.56 standards certainly
3. any advantage gained in loading a tapered round is probably pointless when you consider mud/dirt can also get into an AR's locking lugs.
4. bullet energy is lost in shorter distances than most

gotta admit that AK arguement's looking better and better
then just outfit the designated marksmen with ar-10

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post #36 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-28-2010, 10:02 PM
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ACR

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post #37 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-29-2010, 01:04 AM
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Neither the M4 or the 5.56 round will ever be replaced in either Afghanistan or Iraq. Currently there are about 2000 of the EBR (Sage stock M14 20" Luepold MIV with T3 knobs) in country and word that it is expected to increase to 5000. You can see them in every unit in theatre. I have put several rounds through an EBR and out to 750m it is a killing machine but it is heavy and so is it's ammo. The M4 swings easier and is great in upto 300m engagements. Don't forget that the troops still utilize the hell out of the M249 SAW that uses the same ammo as the M4. For patroling and close engagements out to enemy suppression it is the bee's knees. The M240 gets a little big on patrols but that was adapted to by the M240L (19lbs of 7.62 fury).
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post #38 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-29-2010, 08:15 AM
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That m240 is a bad sob.
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post #39 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-29-2010, 12:32 PM
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post #40 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-29-2010, 12:44 PM
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6.5 grendel uppers would solve a lot of problems, but .260Rem AR10's would solve even more.

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post #41 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-29-2010, 02:47 PM
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blah blah blah, dust off the M1 Garand and Thompson racks.
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post #42 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-30-2010, 07:19 AM
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blah blah blah, dust off the M1 Garand and Thompson racks.
Would solve the problem, but man alot of soldiers would bitch about how heavy they are.
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post #43 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-30-2010, 09:35 AM
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blah blah blah, dust off the M1 Garand and Thompson racks.
Better yet, whip out the Krag Jorgensons.... but give all the black guys Sharps carbines.
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post #44 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-31-2010, 09:52 AM
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Rem AR 30 round looks promising. Looks and performs like a 30 BR. 125gr bullets at ~2800fps in AR-15.

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post #45 of 48 (permalink) Old 05-31-2010, 03:32 PM
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Where the .308 round would solve some of the range and bullet size the AP4 or any other AR10 still leaves the dated gas system in place.

My guess would be the HK416 or a variant.
How about a piston operated AR-10??

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post #46 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-02-2010, 12:23 AM
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Where the .308 round would solve some of the range and bullet size the AP4 or any other AR10 still leaves the dated gas system in place.

My guess would be the HK416 or a variant.
HK416 would be my guess as well. Solves most, if not all, problems, but still user-friendly

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post #47 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-02-2010, 12:33 AM
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Some of our SF are already fielding the HK416/417 in Afg and Iraq.
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post #48 of 48 (permalink) Old 06-04-2010, 10:51 AM
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blah blah blah, dust off the M1 Garand and Thompson racks.
I like how this guy thinks....

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