BATF Notice Bans Private Gun Sales In Texas - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-19-2010, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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BATF Notice Bans Private Gun Sales In Texas

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is actively issuing directions banning private sales of guns without licenses at gun shows in Texas, despite there being no law to justify such demands.

A caller to the Alex Jones show brought attention to BATF notices handed out at the entrance of the Texas Gun And Knife Show, on North Lamaar, in Austin this past weekend.

The flyers (pictured below) state that anyone selling a firearm “will be asked to comply with” conditions including operating through a licensed FFL dealer.

The notice also states that “Selling firearms in the parking lot will not be permitted.”

“The lady at the front desk used her ‘mommy voice’ to get everyone’s attention.” Scott from Austin told The Alex Jones show, noting that the owners of the private building where the gun show was held were contacted by the APD and the BATF and directed to hand out the notices.

Scott also told listeners that a petition in protest of the directions was being handed around at the show.



Other attendees posted the flyer on web forums. One poster noted:

“Here is a public notice from a gun show in Austin, Texas this weekend. Do any fellow Texans know of any law changes that took effect recently that make person-to-person gun sales illegal? Has anyone else seen similar notices?”

“It was not handed out in the parking lot, it was posted at the entrance of the venue.” The forum user writes.

“I spoke with the man who runs the gun show and he said he was told on Thursday to post this (the gun show was Saturday and Sunday). Of course, the owner of the venue has the right to prohibit almost anything he wants on his property, but that’s not what this notice says. It says ‘at the direction of the Austin Police Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms’ and that’s what bothers me.”



http://www.prisonplanet.com/batf-not...-in-texas.html
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-19-2010, 10:14 AM
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-19-2010, 10:38 AM
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-19-2010, 10:52 AM
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-19-2010, 10:58 AM
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-20-2010, 09:15 PM
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That's some jack boooted thug bullshit!
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-20-2010, 09:24 PM
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Repost or not, this needs to be spread. This is bullshit.

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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-20-2010, 09:41 PM
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i just spent the last hour on this.i cannot beleive this crap.the apd is sugar coating the hell out of this.

we need to get on the travis county sherriff,austin mayor,and rick perry's ass and not let up.i can't believe our state officials didn't stop this.several heads should roll.
starting with the apd cheif.

heres apd's release
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Ll5chfz1qF....+19+16.10.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Ll5chfz1qF....+19+16.10.jpg

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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-20-2010, 10:05 PM
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sent this email to perry's office

why are you letting the feds into our state to infringe on our second ammendment rights?

in refference to the north lamar gun show that the BATF and APD shut down this past weekend in austin.

texans are demanding immediate action from elected state officials on this matter.Texans will not stand for this.



* I think debra medina might have a field day with this one.lets hear from you on it.

RON PAUL '08
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-20-2010, 10:15 PM
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-20-2010, 10:25 PM
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Its Austin, what do you expect... I don't agree with it but business is business, they made the recommendations and the dude agreed to them..... He could have said thanks but no thanks...

The promoter needs to write into the next contract that they cant do that shit... I don't think I would be holding anymore gun shows there... move them to Round Rock, Hutto or San Marcos... There's a reason most of ours are in Mesquite and Fort Worth...

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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-20-2010, 10:40 PM
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americans shouldn't have to move shit,but corrupt officials!

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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-20-2010, 11:35 PM
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That's [email protected] up!!!
Take that shit back to California!!!
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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 12:54 AM
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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by GT Dan View Post
Its Austin, what do you expect... I don't agree with it but business is business, they made the recommendations and the dude agreed to them..... He could have said thanks but no thanks...

The promoter needs to write into the next contract that they cant do that shit... I don't think I would be holding anymore gun shows there... move them to Round Rock, Hutto or San Marcos... There's a reason most of ours are in Mesquite and Fort Worth...
Bingo!


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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 11:49 AM
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That's [email protected] up!!!
Take that shit back to California!!!
Lol Ditto!

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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 11:55 AM
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You guys are putting the cart before the horse.

They have no authority to prevent sales between private citizens.

All they have done is have the property owner of private property prohibit the sale of guns on their property. The property owner also has no authority to prevent these sales on its property outside of making a silly little rule against it. All it can do, as a property owner, is ask you to leave the property.

Bottom line is this, if you go to a gun sale like this and want to sell your gun. Walk a few steps onto a public sidewalk and sell your gun. No one can stop you from doing that. Not the APD, not the ATF. No one. If they arrest you, you can sue them for millions of dollars and probably find a lawyer that will be frothing at the mouth to take your case.

And before someone says the property owner has no right to do this, they certainly do. Do you have the authority to prevent sales between two people on your front lawn? Of course you do, but all you can do is ask those people to leave your property.
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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 11:57 AM
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Might want to read this before you get your jubliees in an uproar:

http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austi...bigger-picture


This all comes down to illegal gun sales repeatedly occuring at the gunshow. The people to blame are those making the illegal gun sales and causing the situation for the rest of the law-abiding public.

The owner of the building was the one that made the final decision on the FFL requirement.

In this case, I think gun owners would want to support what the APD /BATF are trying to do in prevent illegal gun sales and figure out a way to do it without infringing on any 2nd amendment rights.
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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
Might want to read this before you get your jubliees in an uproar:

http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austi...bigger-picture


This all comes down to illegal gun sales repeatedly occuring at the gunshow. The people to blame are those making the illegal gun sales and causing the situation for the rest of the law-abiding public.

The owner of the building was the one that made the final decision on the FFL requirement.

In this case, I think gun owners would want to support what the APD /BATF are trying to do in prevent illegal gun sales and figure out a way to do it without infringing on any 2nd amendment rights.
Honestly I think that is their job to make sure they follow the constitution, much like it is my job to make sure I follow traffic laws.

I am ALL FOR preventing illegal gun sales, but I think that is up to the individuals making the sales. Inform the people that some patrons are there to buy guns illegally. The honest ones will be careful, the ones who care more about money that honesty will sell to them anyway, even if they have to meet up somewhere else later.

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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
Might want to read this before you get your jubliees in an uproar:

http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austi...bigger-picture


This all comes down to illegal gun sales repeatedly occuring at the gunshow. The people to blame are those making the illegal gun sales and causing the situation for the rest of the law-abiding public.

The owner of the building was the one that made the final decision on the FFL requirement.

In this case, I think gun owners would want to support what the APD /BATF are trying to do in prevent illegal gun sales and figure out a way to do it without infringing on any 2nd amendment rights.
This summarizes it nicely. The ATF and APD advised HEB of what was going on at the show. HEB wants to mitigate risk and help the APD and ATF as much as they can. The other option from HEB's point of view was to not have the show any more because it has become a pain in the ass and not worth a big company dealing with shit like this over a small amount of money.
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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 02:45 PM
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I wouldn't be totally opposed to an FFL running some sort of 3rd party, free, are you a felon check for private sellers...

just something quick and easy, enter a ssn, then yes / no. Nothing stating a sale has or will be made, no serial # records, just are you legally allowed to buy a firearm or not.
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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 02:50 PM
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Yeah, that flyer was very misleading.. It should have said "On the recommendation of APD and BATF" not "At the direction of". They probably worded it like that on purpose so that they wouldn't have to take the heat themselves.

That, or the APD and BATF implied that it wasn't just a "recommendation" during their meeting. Cops are good about doing the "this is what I need you to do, okay?".. I have seen a number of cops episodes where the cop says "I need to search your car, okay?" and the idiot 'suspects' say "okay".. Boom, cop just got consent even though the way it actually came across was "I am going to search your car" and the suspect's "okay" is simply an acknowledgement..

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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P View Post
You guys are putting the cart before the horse.

They have no authority to prevent sales between private citizens.

All they have done is have the property owner of private property prohibit the sale of guns on their property. The property owner also has no authority to prevent these sales on its property outside of making a silly little rule against it. All it can do, as a property owner, is ask you to leave the property.

Bottom line is this, if you go to a gun sale like this and want to sell your gun. Walk a few steps onto a public sidewalk and sell your gun. No one can stop you from doing that. Not the APD, not the ATF. No one. If they arrest you, you can sue them for millions of dollars and probably find a lawyer that will be frothing at the mouth to take your case.

And before someone says the property owner has no right to do this, they certainly do. Do you have the authority to prevent sales between two people on your front lawn? Of course you do, but all you can do is ask those people to leave your property.
I'll agree with Al on this.

It looks like they've used the old "Nuisance Abatement" trick. If you have "X" number of offenses on your property, the govt can take action againt it and have a judge declare it a public nuisance and have it closed down. It looks like Austin has done this (they probably bowed to some special interest group).

I'd like to know how they conducted the investigations and "observed and participated in the arrests of multiple prohibited persons".
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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 03:52 PM
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I wouldn't be totally opposed to an FFL running some sort of 3rd party, free, are you a felon check for private sellers...

just something quick and easy, enter a ssn, then yes / no. Nothing stating a sale has or will be made, no serial # records, just are you legally allowed to buy a firearm or not.
I would too, except that I'm not sure I agree with the idea that people convicted of a felony that have served their time should not be allowed to own firearms. If you are ok with that part of the law then your idea is great, especially for an honest seller who just wants to do the right thing.

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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
Might want to read this before you get your jubliees in an uproar:

http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austi...bigger-picture


This all comes down to illegal gun sales repeatedly occuring at the gunshow. The people to blame are those making the illegal gun sales and causing the situation for the rest of the law-abiding public.

The owner of the building was the one that made the final decision on the FFL requirement.

In this case, I think gun owners would want to support what the APD /BATF are trying to do in prevent illegal gun sales and figure out a way to do it without infringing on any 2nd amendment rights.
I also agree with you, but I would like to know how they are determining that the sales are to illegals or felons. What are they doing, watching the transactions from a van and then approaching the parties after the sale and checking IDs?

If so, what rights are they violating not knowing whether or not a crime has occurred. An illegal purchase looks just like a legal purchase.
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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 03:58 PM
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This summarizes it nicely. The ATF and APD advised HEB of what was going on at the show. HEB wants to mitigate risk and help the APD and ATF as much as they can. The other option from HEB's point of view was to not have the show any more because it has become a pain in the ass and not worth a big company dealing with shit like this over a small amount of money.
Al, I know how these meetings go. There IS intimidation used, as in "if you don't do what we want, we'll file suit on you".

That's what it boils down to. It may not meet the defintion of intimidation, but if it walks like a duck.....
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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 03:59 PM
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Yeah, that flyer was very misleading.. It should have said "On the recommendation of APD and BATF" not "At the direction of". They probably worded it like that on purpose so that they wouldn't have to take the heat themselves.

That, or the APD and BATF implied that it wasn't just a "recommendation" during their meeting. Cops are good about doing the "this is what I need you to do, okay?".. I have seen a number of cops episodes where the cop says "I need to search your car, okay?" and the idiot 'suspects' say "okay".. Boom, cop just got consent even though the way it actually came across was "I am going to search your car" and the suspect's "okay" is simply an acknowledgement..
The flyer says "will be asked to comply".. There is not a "will" or "shall" in that sentenced. Screw them.
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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 04:05 PM
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I also agree with you, but I would like to know how they are determining that the sales are to illegals or felons. What are they doing, watching the transactions from a van and then approaching the parties after the sale and checking IDs?

If so, what rights are they violating not knowing whether or not a crime has occurred. An illegal purchase looks just like a legal purchase.
I like the way you think.

Although I am guessing they may run serial numbers of guns after they are used in crimes and then trace them back to the previous owner who tells them that he sold it at the gun show. Just a guess though, I dunno.

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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 04:12 PM
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Al, I know how these meetings go. There IS intimidation used, as in "if you don't do what we want, we'll file suit on you".

That's what it boils down to. It may not meet the defintion of intimidation, but if it walks like a duck.....
I know that. I just don't think that HEB is going to be intimidated by the City of Austin. But really, who knows.
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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-21-2010, 04:42 PM
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I like the way you think.

Although I am guessing they may run serial numbers of guns after they are used in crimes and then trace them back to the previous owner who tells them that he sold it at the gun show. Just a guess though, I dunno.
That and "I lost all my guns in a boating accident" are the two most popular excuses.
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post #31 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-22-2010, 12:34 PM
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That and "I lost all my guns in a boating accident" are the two most popular excuses.
Has anyone ever stopped to wonder why all of these supposedly inteligent guys are taking guns out on a boat in the first place? Oh well nvm, im off to the lake!

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post #32 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-22-2010, 02:51 PM
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Has anyone ever stopped to wonder why all of these supposedly inteligent guys are taking guns out on a boat in the first place? Oh well nvm, im off to the lake!
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post #33 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 01:36 PM
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Heb closed down the gun show permanently now.

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #34 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 01:42 PM
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Heb closed down the gun show permanently now.
Not really suprising, this could have been a big liability for them.

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post #35 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 01:52 PM
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Not really surprising, this could have been a big liability for them.
I figured it was heading that way. Isn't that law they used nuisance abatement commonly used for crack houses ?

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #36 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 02:03 PM
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I figured it was heading that way. Isn't that law they used nuisance abatement commonly used for crack houses ?
Exactly. Shit like this is why I am never in favor of vague laws. They get used for things that they were never intended for. Now you have the City of Austin violating the second amendment in a roundabout way and they can get away with it.
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post #37 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 03:11 PM
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I figured it was heading that way. Isn't that law they used nuisance abatement commonly used for crack houses ?
Dope houses and other locations such as apartment complexes that have a high crime rate (aggravated assaults, murders, robberies, drug offenses, etc).
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post #38 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-26-2010, 03:22 PM
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Has anyone ever stopped to wonder why all of these supposedly inteligent guys are taking guns out on a boat in the first place? Oh well nvm, im off to the lake!


LOL!



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