CHL at work, want help - DFWstangs Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
Token Troll
 
GhostTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sherman
Posts: 4,101
CHL at work, want help

So our plant safety manager and I are starting to get into a debate as why CHL holders should be allowed to carry at work.

I'm asking for help from y'all:
  • Data/News stories showing CHL holders committing crime vs rest of populace.
  • Data/News stories on gun ownership to crime/murder.
  • News stories of people coming into work and shooting it up (like yesterday at ABB).
  • New stores of CHL holders (or armed citizens) defending themselves.
  • Anything else that y'all can think of to help back up the argument, or take wind of anti-CHL stance.
Thanks!

'05 Redfire Mustang

"Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey
GhostTX is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 08:40 AM
que?
 
grove rat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,662
ask him what would he do if someone walked in with a gun and started shooting people
grove rat is offline  
post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 08:44 AM Thread Starter
Token Troll
 
GhostTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sherman
Posts: 4,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by grove rat View Post
ask him what would he do if someone walked in with a gun and started shooting people
Still waiting for that response...

'05 Redfire Mustang

"Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey
GhostTX is offline  
 
post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 08:47 AM
que?
 
grove rat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostTX View Post
Still waiting for that response...
tell him that just because you do carry that doesn't mean that you will live through something like that...but you sure as hell will have a better chance than NOT carrying. also tell him that not only are you protecting yourself but everyone else around you(that might or might not be true but it sounds nice, lol)
grove rat is offline  
post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 09:03 AM
Old school 4-eye'd
 
Baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Department of Redundancy Dept
Posts: 6,714
This happened at one of our stores up north, apparently the guy went crazy after the chick dumped him, came to where she worked and shot her, plus her manager ( who he thought she might be having a relationship with, but wasnt)

http://www.telegram.com/article/2008...801290549/1116

Baron is offline  
post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 09:11 AM Thread Starter
Token Troll
 
GhostTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sherman
Posts: 4,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by grove rat View Post
tell him that just because you do carry that doesn't mean that you will live through something like that...but you sure as hell will have a better chance than NOT carrying. also tell him that not only are you protecting yourself but everyone else around you(that might or might not be true but it sounds nice, lol)
Here was my latest response to him when I was asking how his current policy would have stopped the ABB shooting. He previously made a smart alek response and this was my reply:
Quote:
I really wish you wouldn’t. The security here is totally lacking and other than a fear of guns, you have no reason nor data to back up your position why legally owned and legally licensed people shouldn’t be allowed to carry at their place of business.

Meanwhile, I can supply a litany of news stories of people not allowed to defend themselves at work getting shot when a lunatic comes in the door. I have data that shows as gun ownership rises, murder goes down. I have data that shows CHL holders commit MUCH less crime than non-CHL holders.

How long ago was it when the one individual came to pound on one of our coworkers? What if he had a gun?

You’re the safety manager. There’s more things to worry about keeping us safe in this current work world than sharp edges. I can take measures to keep my family and myself safe at home, and when I shop, but you (and the staff here) won’t allow me to take measures to keep myself or coworkers safe at work.

'05 Redfire Mustang

"Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey
GhostTX is offline  
post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 10:03 AM
Lifer
 
bronco71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Farmers Branch/Sulphur Bluff
Posts: 2,176
Scroll to bottom to see real time chart....

http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/article...=lifeclock0707
bronco71 is offline  
post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 11:06 AM
Slingin rock on da corner
 
NTexas_V-Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sherman TX
Posts: 3,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostTX View Post
So our plant safety manager and I are starting to get into a debate as why CHL holders should be allowed to carry at work.

I'm asking for help from y'all:
  • Data/News stories showing CHL holders committing crime vs rest of populace.
  • Data/News stories on gun ownership to crime/murder.
  • News stories of people coming into work and shooting it up (like yesterday at ABB).
  • New stores of CHL holders (or armed citizens) defending themselves.
  • Anything else that y'all can think of to help back up the argument, or take wind of anti-CHL stance.
Thanks!
Duan, if ya don't mind me asking, where do you work? Is it here in Sherman? The owner, and manager (me) at my work carry. Every day. We do this because you never know when something unexpected will happen; hence the term "unexpected". Anybody else up here can carry, and the only thing that will ever change about the policy is if we observe someone being unsafe. Of course, with the owner, and myself, there are only three employees here, total. So it's probably a much different situation.

Point of the post: You can tell your safety manager that there is another business here in Sherman where 66% of the people onsite carry daily, and we have had no incidents. Aside from that, none of our customers know, or even suspect, that we are armed at work.

Also, if you're not comfortable posting where you work at, feel free to PM it to me. I'm sure you told me that day at Ralph's range, but I have forgotten since then.

Remember, some people are alive simply because it is illegal to kill them.


God Bless our Troops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Prez
my excuse is i dont give a fuck...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyMCev View Post
sass me again and see what happens...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yale View Post
I knew you were a titty hating fag the moment I met you.

2007 Harley Davidson Street Bob
2003 King Ranch F-150
NTexas_V-Star is offline  
post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 11:18 AM
Lifer
 
03trubluGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 12,430
Honestly, anyone can sue for anything, so in my humble opinion, there probably should be no official policy for carry or prohibition of carry. Kind of like the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

If you have a policy that states people can carry, you can be sued if someone abuses that policy. If you prohibit carry, then if someone comes in and kills someone, you could be sued for stripping someone their rights to protect themselves or not providing good enough security in lieu of that right that was prohibited.

People have made things so complicated these days that there is no "right" answer.

When the "Most interesting man in the world" needs advice, he calls me.
03trubluGT is offline  
post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 12:27 PM
Lifer
 
slow06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Arlington
Posts: 2,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03trubluGT View Post
Honestly, anyone can sue for anything, so in my humble opinion, there probably should be no official policy for carry or prohibition of carry. Kind of like the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

If you have a policy that states people can carry, you can be sued if someone abuses that policy. If you prohibit carry, then if someone comes in and kills someone, you could be sued for stripping someone their rights to protect themselves or not providing good enough security in lieu of that right that was prohibited.

People have made things so complicated these days that there is no "right" answer.
Disclaimer: I think the only person responsible for shooting up the company is the shooter, I don't believe in all of this blame everyone you can BS, I'm just spit balling here:

Following the same line of thinking of being able to sue the Company, could someone sure the state for issuing the CHL? IMO if anyone, the state would be more "responsible" than the company.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
-Gerald Ford/Thomas Jefferson

"A Republic, if you can keep it"
- Benjamin Franklin

The way to peaceably remove elected officials who deviate from the constitution of the United States of America...
www.blowoutcongress.com

Last edited by slow06; 01-08-2010 at 12:36 PM.
slow06 is offline  
post #11 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 12:37 PM
Lifer
 
03trubluGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 12,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by slow06 View Post
Following the same line of thinking of being able to sue the Company, could someone sure the state for issuing the CHL?
Have you ever tried suing a governmental agency?

Good luck.
03trubluGT is offline  
post #12 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 12:38 PM
Lifer
 
03trubluGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 12,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by slow06 View Post
Disclaimer: I think the only person responsible for shooting up the company is the shooter, I don't believe in all of this blame everyone you can BS, I'm just spit balling here:

GTFO here with that logic. Don't you realize where we are? No one is responsible for their actions anymore, the blame always goes to a past wrong.
03trubluGT is offline  
post #13 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 12:40 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 962
Holy shit man its a concealed handgun license... Carry it anyways thats why you have it. UNless the place sells alcohol or its a government building.

Mr_fiux is offline  
post #14 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 12:44 PM
que?
 
grove rat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_fiux View Post
Holy shit man its a concealed handgun license... Carry it anyways thats why you have it. UNless the place sells alcohol or its a government building.
wrong
grove rat is offline  
post #15 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 12:56 PM
Slingin rock on da corner
 
NTexas_V-Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sherman TX
Posts: 3,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by grove rat View Post
wrong
Expanding on that: needs to derive 51% of profits from the sale of alcohol for onsite consumption. Also, I believe it has to be properly posted, since Sept. 1st of 2009, I believe that a defense against prosecution for that sort of thing was passed.

Remember, some people are alive simply because it is illegal to kill them.


God Bless our Troops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Prez
my excuse is i dont give a fuck...
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyMCev View Post
sass me again and see what happens...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yale View Post
I knew you were a titty hating fag the moment I met you.

2007 Harley Davidson Street Bob
2003 King Ranch F-150
NTexas_V-Star is offline  
post #16 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 01:03 PM
Lifer
 
slow06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Arlington
Posts: 2,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03trubluGT View Post
Have you ever tried suing a governmental agency?

Good luck.
I haven't, but if you can sue the company who is only allowing you to carry where the state allows, then it follows that you could sue the state that gave him permission to carry in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03trubluGT View Post
GTFO here with that logic. Don't you realize where we are? No one is responsible for their actions anymore, the blame always goes to a past wrong.
Haha.

I shouldn't even laugh because that retarded mentality is everywhere, but at this point all I can do is stay sane and teach my (future) kids to take responsibility for their actions and to reject the spirit of entitlement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_fiux View Post
Holy shit man its a concealed handgun license... Carry it anyways thats why you have it. UNless the place sells alcohol or its a government building.
51% sign required to be posted or it is legal as far a alcohol is concerned. It is no longer up the the CHL Holder's Discretion.

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
-Gerald Ford/Thomas Jefferson

"A Republic, if you can keep it"
- Benjamin Franklin

The way to peaceably remove elected officials who deviate from the constitution of the United States of America...
www.blowoutcongress.com
slow06 is offline  
post #17 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
Token Troll
 
GhostTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sherman
Posts: 4,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by NTexas_V-Star View Post
Point of the post: You can tell your safety manager that there is another business here in Sherman where 66% of the people onsite carry daily, and we have had no incidents. Aside from that, none of our customers know, or even suspect, that we are armed at work.

Also, if you're not comfortable posting where you work at, feel free to PM it to me. I'm sure you told me that day at Ralph's range, but I have forgotten since then.
PM sent on business. And yes, in Sherman. I was thinking about your company if he wanted examples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03trubluGT View Post
Honestly, anyone can sue for anything, so in my humble opinion, there probably should be no official policy for carry or prohibition of carry. Kind of like the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

If you have a policy that states people can carry, you can be sued if someone abuses that policy. If you prohibit carry, then if someone comes in and kills someone, you could be sued for stripping someone their rights to protect themselves or not providing good enough security in lieu of that right that was prohibited.

People have made things so complicated these days that there is no "right" answer.
Good point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_fiux View Post
Holy shit man its a concealed handgun license... Carry it anyways thats why you have it. UNless the place sells alcohol or its a government building.
There's other reasons, too. The 30.06 sign. There's also the "someone in apparent authority" verbage, which means someone telling you can't or even is there's a paragraph in the employee handbook.

The busineess doesn't have the 30.06 sign, but in my discussions with HR and the Safety Manager, I've been informed we cannot carry.

In more follow up emails, he (the safety manager) finally just told me to put it in our "suggestion" box, which is something the entire plant staff has to address. Its mainly used for addressing rumors, benefits questions, and general "this sux" kind of stuff.

Here's what I typed up:
Quote:
Why can’t CHL (Concealed Handgun License) holders carry at work?

The security here is totally lacking. Doors are not locked or wide open, and likewise there’s nothing in place to keep non-employees out. Other than a fear of guns, I have not heard a good reason from staff nor data to back up the position why legally owned and legally licensed people shouldn’t be allowed to carry here (or other places of business).

Meanwhile, I can supply a litany of news stories of people not allowed to defend themselves at work getting shot when a lunatic comes in the door. I have data that shows as gun ownership rises, murder goes down. I have data that shows CHL holders commit MUCH less crime than non-CHL holders.

Just yesterday, a person went on a rampage at ABB (an electrical manufacture like us) in Saint Louis killing 3 people and wounding 5. It is only about 45 minutes from our Highland facility.

How long ago was it when the one individual came to pound on one of our coworkers? What if he had a gun?

There are more things to worry about keeping us safe in this current work world than sharp edges. I can take measures to keep my family and myself safe at home, and when I shop, but staff won’t allow me to take measures to keep myself or coworkers safe at work.

I'm not proposing a high cost venture in keep us safe. I'm asking to let those that are already recognized by the state to CCW (Conceal Carry Weapon) the ability to do that at work. There's zero cost to the company to do that, just a policy change.

Currently our only deterrence from someone carrying weapons into the plant is a couple of signs posted on some doors. And those aren’t even legally recognized signs to prevent a CHL holder from coming onto the premises with a weapon.

And I'm not saying that every CHL person would carry at work some, all the time or even at all. But just give those the option to do so. And if it were a public and generally known policy...would someone come to our place of business to start trouble when they know they could possibly get shot? It's not necessarily the act of force, but the mere threat of force that deters violence.

'05 Redfire Mustang

"Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey
GhostTX is offline  
post #18 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 02:59 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Austin
Posts: 431
Ultimately, it boils down to the philosophy of the proprietors of the business. If they feel strongly about it and want to "give notice" via their employee handbooks and/or by posting legal signs that they don't want you to carry, then that's their prerogative and right. (That's not a violation of *your* rights, because they're not forcing you to work there.) At that point it's up to you whether or not you feel strongly enough about it to continue working there or knowingly break the law by carrying there against their wishes. If the company has no official policy on it, and it's just a pissing match between you and a beaurocrat who really doesn't make the rules anyway... Don't ask, don't tell, IMHO. Just by having that discussion with him though, you have already "told" in his mind, so he will be on the lookout for sure, and if you do decide to ignore any formal policy the company may have, you're putting yourself in a very bad position. If it is a company policy, you're just creating friction with a guy that probably really can't change company policy, but really might have some say in your raises, bonuses, promotions, etc. (even if he's not your manager directly, he probably talks to your manager and peer reviews carry a lot of weight.) I don't know anything about your company, but if you have a "safety manager", it's probably fairly large, in which case there's nothing to gain by it because ultimately, neither of you have much traction there.

Usual disclaimer applies... I'm not a lawyer or LEO (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night) this is just what I've gathered from my own first hand experience, as well as talking to all of my CHL holding friends and a couple of different instructors...
Scott H is offline  
post #19 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 03:07 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Austin
Posts: 431
I typed that last msg up and got sidetracked before I posted it, so other posts have come in since, but i'll leave it there since I think the logic is valid for others... If a manager and HR have said don't do it, and you've dropped off your (hopefully anonymous) suggestion, then (like it or not) be done with it. Don't say another word to anyone about it there and hopefully they'll forget about it. Keep clanging that bell, and you're just making waves that can't do any good, but can definitely cause harm (to your future) there. There's an old saying about dogs not shitting where they eat or something along those lines...
Scott H is offline  
post #20 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 03:28 PM
Lifer
 
03trubluGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 12,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by slow06 View Post
I haven't, but if you can sue the company who is only allowing you to carry where the state allows, then it follows that you could sue the state that gave him permission to carry in the first place.
I just don't see that flying.
03trubluGT is offline  
post #21 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
Token Troll
 
GhostTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sherman
Posts: 4,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott H View Post
I typed that last msg up and got sidetracked before I posted it, so other posts have come in since, but i'll leave it there since I think the logic is valid for others... If a manager and HR have said don't do it, and you've dropped off your (hopefully anonymous) suggestion, then (like it or not) be done with it. Don't say another word to anyone about it there and hopefully they'll forget about it. Keep clanging that bell, and you're just making waves that can't do any good, but can definitely cause harm (to your future) there. There's an old saying about dogs not shitting where they eat or something along those lines...
Oh I hear ya. I do what I can and go as far as I can without being a nuisance. I've spoken with the HR & Safety in the past, but after the ABB shooting, I want a more formal response, or maybe getting approved by getting further visibility.

Just popping in this suggestion box does two things. It goes OVER the safety manager and HR manager legitimately and secondly, its published for EVERYBODY in the plant to read, as well as the staff response. So, it might strike chords with other people.

I'm not worried about myself or the job. In fact, further emails with the safety manager and he's kind of on my sides, as he's said he's proposed a lot of changes to help secure the plant, but corporate has turned him down due to costs and not come back with any alternatives. He's genuinely concerned about the plant's safety and security, but his hands are tied as well.

'05 Redfire Mustang

"Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey
GhostTX is offline  
post #22 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 03:31 PM
Lifer
 
03trubluGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 12,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott H View Post
Ultimately, it boils down to the philosophy of the proprietors of the business. If they feel strongly about it and want to "give notice" via their employee handbooks and/or by posting legal signs that they don't want you to carry, then that's their prerogative and right. (That's not a violation of *your* rights, because they're not forcing you to work there.) At that point it's up to you whether or not you feel strongly enough about it to continue working there or knowingly break the law by carrying there against their wishes. If the company has no official policy on it, and it's just a pissing match between you and a beaurocrat who really doesn't make the rules anyway... Don't ask, don't tell, IMHO. Just by having that discussion with him though, you have already "told" in his mind, so he will be on the lookout for sure, and if you do decide to ignore any formal policy the company may have, you're putting yourself in a very bad position. If it is a company policy, you're just creating friction with a guy that probably really can't change company policy, but really might have some say in your raises, bonuses, promotions, etc. (even if he's not your manager directly, he probably talks to your manager and peer reviews carry a lot of weight.) I don't know anything about your company, but if you have a "safety manager", it's probably fairly large, in which case there's nothing to gain by it because ultimately, neither of you have much traction there.

Usual disclaimer applies... I'm not a lawyer or LEO (but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night) this is just what I've gathered from my own first hand experience, as well as talking to all of my CHL holding friends and a couple of different instructors...
I was all with the serious tone until you busted out with that! OMFG! You caught me off guard!
03trubluGT is offline  
post #23 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 03:33 PM
Lifer
 
03trubluGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 12,430
Ghost,

I would have made a point about the Ft. Hood shooting. Hundreds of highly trained but unarmed US soldiers were victims that day. It took a girl with a gun, badge and courage to stop the slaughter.
03trubluGT is offline  
post #24 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 04:21 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: carrollton
Posts: 279
I was told our company policies about no weapons on company property superceeds any chl rights,being that they own the property and are responsible for the saftey of every employee they told me to leave mine at home. but i go with the dont ask dont tell rule , iam not going to trust our securtiy to stop a pizza delivery boy much less a nutjob who has had a bad day..
GARY TAYLOR is offline  
post #25 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 04:39 PM Thread Starter
Token Troll
 
GhostTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sherman
Posts: 4,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03trubluGT View Post
Ghost,

I would have made a point about the Ft. Hood shooting. Hundreds of highly trained but unarmed US soldiers were victims that day. It took a girl with a gun, badge and courage to stop the slaughter.
I was saving that for a counter argument. You forgot to add, due to a "no gun policy" while on-base, none of them could have been armed.

'05 Redfire Mustang

"Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey
GhostTX is offline  
post #26 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 05:07 PM
None
 
Jedi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Anti-Newbie
Posts: 12,675
If I end up having to draw my weapon to save my life (or of someone else) and the end result is that I get fired from my job for breaking company policy, good riddance.
Jedi is offline  
post #27 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 05:17 PM
DFW MUSTANGS . NET
 
HOOCBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW MUSTANGS . NET
Posts: 3,771
I was considering bringing this up at work last summer when we moved to a building in a much less safe part of town. Ultimately, I decided that, because of the way the handbook is worded, I just wouldn't tell/ask anyone and carry anyway. I've been doing it since we moved and haven't had a problem as of yet. I carry it into the office with me because our parking lot is anything but secure. I refuse to leave my weapon in the car here.

HOOCBB is offline  
post #28 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 05:33 PM
duh...duh....duh
 
ceyko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ES BEER
Posts: 9,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOCBB View Post
I was considering bringing this up at work last summer when we moved to a building in a much less safe part of town. Ultimately, I decided that, because of the way the handbook is worded, I just wouldn't tell/ask anyone and carry anyway. I've been doing it since we moved and haven't had a problem as of yet. I carry it into the office with me because our parking lot is anything but secure. I refuse to leave my weapon in the car here.
Curious how it is worded. Just vague?

My '03 Sold.
ceyko is offline  
post #29 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 05:40 PM
Pushed to the limit
 
PWTRTXSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In the shadow of a big mountain
Posts: 4,510
I can see a company allowing people to arm themselves and then a week later, some systems analyst dropping his gun on the floor while pulling his laptop out and the thing discharging and killing someone in the next cube.

I don't think it would matter all that much anyway. If people were allowed to carry at work, the psychos would just start self detonating in staff meetings.

Buying dogs kills.
PWTRTXSS is offline  
post #30 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 05:46 PM
Lifer
 
Trip McNeely's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 29,396
My boss allows us to carry that have CHL's. I do take advantage of that.

CANADIANS = DOUCHERS

Trip McNeely is offline  
post #31 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 05:52 PM
Lifer
 
03trubluGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 12,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
If I end up having to draw my weapon to save my life (or of someone else) and the end result is that I get fired from my job for breaking company policy, good riddance.
I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
03trubluGT is offline  
post #32 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 05:58 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 522
I look at it this way, It is no ones business if I carry. If you do your job and the law no one should be able to tell you are carrying a weapon.
jrstang is offline  
post #33 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 08:33 PM
Old school 4-eye'd
 
Baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Department of Redundancy Dept
Posts: 6,714
I have the ability to carry at work, and wont be asking if I can or cant after the statement was made. There isnt anything in the handbook about it, it is left to each plant manager.

Baron is offline  
post #34 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 08:44 PM
duh...duh....duh
 
ceyko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ES BEER
Posts: 9,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrstang View Post
I look at it this way, It is no ones business if I carry. If you do your job and the law no one should be able to tell you are carrying a weapon.
It's your employer's business, it's also the rules if the employer verbally or written tells you not to bring a gun in to work. (CHL or not)

My '03 Sold.
ceyko is offline  
post #35 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 09:51 PM
DFW MUSTANGS . NET
 
HOOCBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW MUSTANGS . NET
Posts: 3,771
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceyko View Post
Curious how it is worded. Just vague?
It is my understanding that the handbook has to be worded exactly like PC 30.06 to be charged with criminal trespass by a license holder. Our handbook is worded something along the lines of "weapons and ammunition are prohibited on company property". Of course it also says something about how they have the right to search my vehicle.

That said, the people that were uptight about this stuff are no longer employed with the company. I'm not worried about it as long as I don't have a mishap and keep doing my job as expected.

EDIT:

I had to ask to see the pages I signed from the handbook when I was hired and when it was revised. Some people are under the impression that if the acknowledgment page says that the policies were explained to you, then that could be represented as verbal notification during a trial. Mine just said that I had received a copy of the handbook.


Last edited by HOOCBB; 01-08-2010 at 09:56 PM.
HOOCBB is offline  
post #36 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 09:52 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 522
Employer's just like our government have no clue what we the people need. With that said I will do as I please. If at some point it cost me my job so be it. I support a lot of people in my family they depend on my well being to bring in money and help pay medical bills. With that said, high paying jobs in my field of work and training are very easy to find.
jrstang is offline  
post #37 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-08-2010, 10:06 PM
duh...duh....duh
 
ceyko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ES BEER
Posts: 9,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOCBB View Post
EDIT:

I had to ask to see the pages I signed from the handbook when I was hired and when it was revised. Some people are under the impression that if the acknowledgment page says that the policies were explained to you, then that could be represented as verbal notification during a trial. Mine just said that I had received a copy of the handbook.
I don't know the -law- really, just what my instructor said. He said verbal or written... Heck, although I understand it maybe unlawful I understand why you'd do it. I do work for some community colleges and would really like to carry to/from the parking lot. I don't because the buildings are patrolled by the local police.

My '03 Sold.
ceyko is offline  
post #38 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-09-2010, 07:16 PM
Lifer
 
VETTKLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: TX Panhandle
Posts: 1,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03trubluGT View Post
I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^



No properly posted 30.06 signs, fuck 'em in the neck.

VETTKLR is offline  
post #39 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-10-2010, 11:27 AM
DFW MUSTANGS . NET
 
HOOCBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW MUSTANGS . NET
Posts: 3,771
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceyko View Post
I don't know the -law- really, just what my instructor said. He said verbal or written... Heck, although I understand it maybe unlawful I understand why you'd do it. I do work for some community colleges and would really like to carry to/from the parking lot. I don't because the buildings are patrolled by the local police.
Schools are a different story altogether. While you can carry on campus, you cannot enter any buildings with it. At least that's how the definition of "premises" was explained to me.

HOOCBB is offline  
post #40 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-10-2010, 12:45 PM
duh...duh....duh
 
ceyko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ES BEER
Posts: 9,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOCBB View Post
Schools are a different story altogether. While you can carry on campus, you cannot enter any buildings with it. At least that's how the definition of "premises" was explained to me.
Yup, your a 100% correct. Still, no different then an employer saying you can't. Against the law is against the law....although I suspect there would be harsher penalties against a person being caught in a school as opposed to just the work place. (Fired compared to criminal penalties)

My '03 Sold.
ceyko is offline  
post #41 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-10-2010, 01:20 PM
Old Timer
 
Dacotua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Flower Mound
Posts: 4,027
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostTX View Post
So our plant safety manager and I are starting to get into a debate as why CHL holders should be allowed to carry at work.

I'm asking for help from y'all:
  • Data/News stories showing CHL holders committing crime vs rest of populace.
  • Data/News stories on gun ownership to crime/murder.
  • News stories of people coming into work and shooting it up (like yesterday at ABB).
  • New stores of CHL holders (or armed citizens) defending themselves.
  • Anything else that y'all can think of to help back up the argument, or take wind of anti-CHL stance.
Thanks!
Doesn't matter what you or your manager think. Its what the policy at work is. If your employee manual or company policy states that guns are not allowed at work, you are legally not supposed to carry at work.

2006 Mustang GT
Dacotua is offline  
post #42 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-10-2010, 02:28 PM
Lifer
 
VETTKLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: TX Panhandle
Posts: 1,649
Legalities and policies are two different things, Dacotua.

VETTKLR is offline  
post #43 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-10-2010, 03:33 PM
None
 
Jedi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Anti-Newbie
Posts: 12,675
The law gives the employer the right to prohibit carrying - so it can be a legal policy if worded appropriately and within the guidelines set forth by law.

Whether you agree/disgree with the policy doesn't change the legality of it.
Jedi is offline  
post #44 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-10-2010, 04:24 PM
Lifer
 
VETTKLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: TX Panhandle
Posts: 1,649
I don't remember anything in my CHL handbook saying that "just because someone says so", it's illegal to carry. I'll go back and read it again.

My point is if you carry a concealed handgun, it is concealed where nobody will know it's there. Yall do what you want. If you want to get your ass gunned down because you couldn't defend yourself or others around you, be my guest. I would at least like to have a fighting chance to make it back home to the wife and kids.

VETTKLR is offline  
post #45 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-10-2010, 04:34 PM
None
 
Jedi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Anti-Newbie
Posts: 12,675
It's criminal trespass, but I agree. I'd rather be guilty of criminal trespass and still alive. Whether "Criminal Trespass = Prohibit Carrying" is up to your personal interpretation.

Just so its said - this does not mean I would still attempt to blindly carry anywhere/everywhere (ie on an aircraft or in a 51% establishment). I try to stay as legal as possible with thoughtful and reasoned exceptions.
Jedi is offline  
post #46 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-10-2010, 04:37 PM
Lifer
 
VETTKLR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: TX Panhandle
Posts: 1,649
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi View Post
Just so its said - this does not mean I would still attempt to blindly carry anywhere/everywhere (ie on an aircraft or in a 51% establishment). I try to stay as legal as possible with thoughtful and reasoned exceptions.
I totally agree with that.

VETTKLR is offline  
post #47 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-10-2010, 04:41 PM
DFW MUSTANGS . NET
 
HOOCBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW MUSTANGS . NET
Posts: 3,771
Quote:
Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:

(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and

(2) received notice that:

(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or

(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.

(c) In this section:

(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).

(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).

(3) "Written communication" means:

(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun";
or

(B) a sign posted on the property that:

(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;

(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and

(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.


Added by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1261, Sec. 23, eff. Sept. 1, 1997. Amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 62, Sec. 9.24, eff. Sept. 1, 1999; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1178, Sec. 2, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.
Paragraph 3 is what I am basing my decision on. The handbook can be written communication, but read exactly as stated in this section, which mine is not. If you verbally ask, and they say no yet you still carry, you are in violation of the law.

HOOCBB is offline  
post #48 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-10-2010, 05:00 PM
Punk Ass Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 98
Houston Incident

Do you guys remember that incident in Houston where someone came into an office building with a crossbow and a gun or something like that but the chl'ers that were working ended up putting the person down in the building.
warrjsmith is offline  
post #49 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-10-2010, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
Token Troll
 
GhostTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sherman
Posts: 4,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacotua View Post
Doesn't matter what you or your manager think. Its what the policy at work is. If your employee manual or company policy states that guns are not allowed at work, you are legally not supposed to carry at work.
It's not in the manual, but discussion with the local HR manager and Safety manager said in effect "we don't allow our employees to carry weapons." Which leads to...
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOCBB View Post
Paragraph 3 is what I am basing my decision on. The handbook can be written communication, but read exactly as stated in this section, which mine is not. If you verbally ask, and they say no yet you still carry, you are in violation of the law.
Which is how I take what I just said (replying to Dacotua), via 30.06 b, "a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication."

'05 Redfire Mustang

"Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey
GhostTX is offline  
post #50 of 55 (permalink) Old 01-10-2010, 08:11 PM
DFW MUSTANGS . NET
 
HOOCBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW MUSTANGS . NET
Posts: 3,771
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostTX View Post
It's not in the manual, but discussion with the local HR manager and Safety manager said in effect "we don't allow our employees to carry weapons." Which leads to...

Which is how I take what I just said (replying to Dacotua), via 30.06 b, "a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication."
Exactly. I believe that in order for you to legally carry at work now, you will need written approval from the main site manager.



I am not a lawyer and did not stay at a Holiday Inn. In no way should anything I post be construed as legal advice as it is merely my opinion. If you have further questions, please consult an attorney.

HOOCBB is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DFWstangs Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome