Read This before you decide to carry! - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-25-2009, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Read This before you decide to carry!

Regardless of whether justified or not, you will feel sad about killing another human being. It is better to be sad than to be room temperature.

If you are involved in a shooting and are the survivor, this is what you MUST DO:

During the first second of post-shooting quiet, do a tactical reload and store the ejected, but not yet empty mag in a convenient pocket, DO NOT put it in your mag pouch! This will prevent you from grabbing it later thinking its fresh. During this reload do a 360 sweep clearing the area for additional BGs.

Draw down on the Bad Guy's center mass and watch his hands as you approach. Hands kill! Everything else is just a distraction! Clear the Tango of any weapons and make sure he is secured. (read: no longer a threat) DO NOT shoot again unless he moves at you. By this time you will more than likely be on someone's candid camera!

If the Tango is still alive tie his hands/feet. Once the Tango is secured, safe and holster your weapon. The officers responding have no idea what has happened, won't know who the good guy is, won't know who the bad guy is, and if they find you standing over a body with a gun in your hand you're likely to get a bad reaction.

Start to administer first aid (you are not a doctor that can pronounce) and stay alert! This guy was trying to kill you just minutes ago! Continue your 360 sweeps for any BG’s that may show up! Start yelling "CALL 911! CALL EMS!". DO THIS until someone confirms they have called!

If you are alone and while performing CPR, with your cell phone call 911 and tell them "There has been a shooting at **your location**, I'm doing CPR, get here fast!" and say nothing more. Do Not hang up and set the phone down while still connected to the 911 operator allowing then to find you. Do not speak to anyone, frequently visually clear the area for BGs and continue CPR until the police/EMS arrives. Personally I could give a **** if the BG lives or not! What I do care about is having the first responder put in his report that when he rolled up on the scene that I was trying to save the Tango’s life! That single statement in his report will show contrition on my part and instantly protect me from a prosecutor trying to portray me, the CCW permit holder as a blood-thirsty vigilante.

When asked by the police the only thing you EVER say is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more. Please let me speak with my attorney. I assure you that you will have my full cooperation after I consult with my attorney."

You will need to surrender your identification, CCW license and weapon. With this completed, request to be released to return home, you’re about to be sick. If everything is in order they should return your ID and CCWL and let you go. With the exception of yes or no answers to ID questions DO NOT answer any other questions! You have invoked the attorney card and are not required to speak to them. You are upset, sick and want to go home! By now they have run and verified your info, know where you live and should let you go.

Be sure you have a lawyer prior to carrying. Call the attorney now. If it's late, you will probably get a service or machine. Go on record then, do not wait until you can speak to him in person and leave this message; "This is (You) and I require your services for a shooting I was involved in an hour ago."
NEVER (did I say never?) say you shot somebody, not to anyone other than your retained lawyer and not even to him on the phone.

If you re-read the above you will notice you have NOT once said you shot your gun much less the Tango. You have not lied but more importantly, you have not provided the Tango's legal defense team anything they can run with. This is very important. Invoke the attorney card and say nothing, even when questioned about you gun being full. You are not required to! Keep saying, "I'm sick and need to go home."

Mark Twain said it best; "If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything."

CCW is what I perceive to be the most personally responsible decision I have made third only to my wedding vows and active service to this great country. Concealed carry is NOT playing cowboys and indians (pardon my age tell) and I’m afraid that’s exactly what many are doing today. When we post encounters as entertainment rather than a positive outcome from our correct decisions we only feed to a “Denny Crain” type response.

When you decide to carry a concealed weapon, you have burdened yourself with tremendous responsibilities including, but not limited to, physical fitness, firearm and CQB training, in-depth knowledge and handling skills of your weapon of choice and the moral obligation that the issuing authority extracts from you when you applied for the CCW license.

When your 'go criteria' are met, you MUST draw your concealed carry and if nothing else has changed, it’s not time to talk, it's time to defend yourself with your loud finger. If that reaction isn’t one smooth ‘muscle memory’, you’re dead! PLEASE NOTICE: I did not say if you draw you must shoot. That’s why I included the “CHANGE” caveat because if the BG turned and ran I would clear the area and then reholster.


There is no fun in concealed carry; it’s a profession that must be executed by professionals. If you do not embrace this school of thought, you have no business being armed. If you don't embrace this, it is my fear that I or my loved ones could become part of your collateral damage.

I need to emphasize the gravity of this carry decision with these two points;

A. Use your head (your most powerful weapon) and only draw and fire your weapon to save you or someone’s life. This is the only righteous shooting. Anything else will find you in a cage or a box. Long before you put yourself in the ‘shoot’ position, you better have completed all the legal requirements that allow you to be there. In addition you must complete the following personal conditions;

1. Training,
2. Understand and accept the moral obligation that the issuing authority extracts from you when you applied for the CCW license,
3. Training,
4. The moral mettle to take a life,
5. Training,
6. Know and keep up on the laws covering carry in the location you are
7. armed (political boundaries and building restrictions),
8. Training,
9. At a bare minimum have a gun rights lawyer’s phone number on your cell’s speed dial,
10. Training,
11. Retain that lawyer if you can afford it,
12. and did I mention training?

B. See A or you will get yourself killed!

We are neither a vigilante nor a hired gun, just a survivalist.

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post #2 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-25-2009, 05:07 PM
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Is this your own creation, or a copy/paste?
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post #3 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-25-2009, 05:49 PM
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Good post.
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post #4 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-25-2009, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by trickz View Post
When asked by the police the only thing you EVER say is, "He said he was going to kill me. I believed him. I'm sorry, Officer, but I'm very upset now. I can't say anything more. Please let me speak with my attorney. I assure you that you will have my full cooperation after I consult with my attorney."

..........

If you re-read the above you will notice you have NOT once said you shot your gun much less the Tango. You have not lied but more importantly, you have not provided the Tango's legal defense team anything they can run with. This is very important. Invoke the attorney card and say nothing, even when questioned about you gun being full. You are not required to! Keep saying, "I'm sick and need to go home."

This part just might get you charged with murder. If there are no witnesses, and you do not give the police some reason for justifying what you just did, they will have no choice but to make an arrest and you WON'T be able to just apply the "King's X" and say you are "sick" and go home. You WILL have to go downtown for an interview, and if you chose to invoke your right to an attorney, it will leave them no option but to arrest you.
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post #5 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-25-2009, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 03trubluGT View Post
Is this your own creation, or a copy/paste?
Copy and paste from here:
http://www.stuntlife.com/forums/436-...ou-decide.html


But I want to know who the originator of this piece of work was. I am sure it is a some what imbalanced person who I would lay money on teaches CHL classes and goes out looking for the first reason to use his.
And tactical reload? Is this cat for real?
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post #6 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-25-2009, 07:43 PM
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I take anything written on a forum as the breathed word of God.

In fact, I actually don't believe in god because I read a "read this first" post that said god doesn't exist.

...as to where that puts my belief system on any topic, fuck I don't know.
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post #7 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-25-2009, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 03trubluGT View Post
This part just might get you charged with murder. If there are no witnesses, and you do not give the police some reason for justifying what you just did, they will have no choice but to make an arrest and you WON'T be able to just apply the "King's X" and say you are "sick" and go home. You WILL have to go downtown for an interview, and if you chose to invoke your right to an attorney, it will leave them no option but to arrest you.

That is interesting, I had an LEO give my class and a different one give my renew and both pretty much said the same thing "get a lawyer and do not talk to the police without one"
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post #8 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 11:05 AM
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i don't think i would tell the police much more than why i had to shoot him.
In a simplistic way albeit
the police will take anything you say and run with it.
To me though it does seem a bit foolish not to tell your side of the story immediately.
Like i said though, K. I. S. S.

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post #9 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 11:29 AM
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The dilemma here should never be. We should be able to trust the system and be able to protect our lives and our family's lives without fear of what will/might happen.

The one thing we all need to remember here is that no matter what charges are brought against us we will still be at the mercy of the chosen 12. Its my belief that the 12 will look at a man with a job against a thug who's job is being a thief and probably a drug addict. I know who'd I convict. I'm pretty sure they will see things the same way I do, don't you?
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post #10 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BlackSnake1996 View Post
The dilemma here should never be. We should be able to trust the system and be able to protect our lives and our family's lives without fear of what will/might happen.

The one thing we all need to remember here is that no matter what charges are brought against us we will still be at the mercy of the chosen 12. Its my belief that the 12 will look at a man with a job against a thug who's job is being a thief and probably a drug addict. I know who'd I convict. I'm pretty sure they will see things the same way I do, don't you?
We are fortunate to live in Texas, but everyday more and more people are moving here from liberal states and bringing their failed liberal beliefs with them. Lots of them are coming from extreme states such as California. This increases the chances of a liberal leaning set of jurors who may feel that the criminal has more rights and shooting him takes away that criminals rights.
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post #11 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 07:34 PM
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The whole "tango" thing made me quit reading. So mall ninja-like...

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post #12 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Hass View Post
We are fortunate to live in Texas, but everyday more and more people are moving here from liberal states and bringing their failed liberal beliefs with them. Lots of them are coming from extreme states such as California. This increases the chances of a liberal leaning set of jurors who may feel that the criminal has more rights and shooting him takes away that criminals rights.
Although this may be true, I will say that I have mixed liberal and conservative beliefs; one of those conservative-sided beliefs is having the right to protect yourself. It has nothing to do with which side of the political aisle I am on, it has everything to do with common sense and seeing that I should be able to protect myself if I am threatened.
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post #13 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 09:35 PM
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That is interesting, I had an LEO give my class and a different one give my renew and both pretty much said the same thing "get a lawyer and do not talk to the police without one"
Well, if you don't say anything, you have a corpse and the shooter. As far as they know, you attacked him.

Remember the thread here a couple of weeks ago about the Fort Worth man that shot and killed two burglars? He gave his side of the story and was not charged.
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post #14 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 11:55 PM
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This is what I was told by my instructor(retired leo)
If you refuse to talk on the scene, then you will be arrested.
If you claim you are sick or stressed out over the shooting, you will be arrested/taken to the
hospital, and when dr ok is had, taken to jail
You will then sit there till morning, see a judge, and be indicted due to lack of cooperation
Then it will be up to a jury at trial.
Basically once they arrest you it will go to trial.

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post #15 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 03:21 AM
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And the biggest reason to not get a CCW permit. You are putting your name right smack dab on a list for those same liberals to use when they decide the 2nd amendment is void.
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post #16 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by propellerhead View Post
The whole "tango" thing made me quit reading. So mall ninja-like...
phew, I thought I was the only one.


Also, I doubt any CHL holder would have the mental cogency to follow any kind of procedure after shooting someone. This sounds great and all, but its kind of like the people who tell you "how they would have avoided that car wreck if they were driving".
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post #17 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 03trubluGT View Post
Well, if you don't say anything, you have a corpse and the shooter. As far as they know, you attacked him.

Remember the thread here a couple of weeks ago about the Fort Worth man that shot and killed two burglars? He gave his side of the story and was not charged.
So what is your suggestion, give a brief explanation of what happened?

I think burglars in your house can be defined easier than a shooting in a public place etc.
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post #18 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 10:40 AM
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The one thing we all need to remember here is that no matter what charges are brought against us we will still be at the mercy of the chosen 12.
It is like this in VA. There is no CD, however a home owner does have a right to stand their ground if they feel threatened, but can still face civil court even if the shootng was proven justified. Maryland, however has a duty-to-retreat before deadly force can be used. Thus, the reason why I only have a loaded weapon around in my house and during road trips when I know neighboring states will honor my CCP.

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post #19 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 10:56 AM
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If involved in a shooting, I will give the facts as to what happened, but just the facts. But I realize that that the officers job is to collect information - they are not your buddies, so don't joke, exaggerate or let your guard down. I'm sure if you call the bad guy a "tango" after the shooting its going to not look good for you. Immediately wanting a lawyer right from the start is going to look really bad for you as well.

if it was a good shoot, just tell the truth. if it wasn't a good shoot, then you DO need a lawyer because you are going to jail because you fucked up.

Every shooting is going to a grand jury - you will need a lawyer eventually.
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post #20 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 01:09 PM
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And the biggest reason to not get a CCW permit. You are putting your name right smack dab on a list for those same liberals to use when they decide the 2nd amendment is void.
If you are that paranoid, then you should never buy a new gun so that there won't be a paper trail. Be sure to use cash too, because if ever buy a gun or ammo with plastic, the man can keep tabs on you.
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post #21 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 01:21 PM
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The whole "tango" thing made me quit reading. So mall ninja-like...
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Originally Posted by DOHCTR View Post
phew, I thought I was the only one.
I am with you guys on the "tango" thing.

It is obvious that the author of this is just what it seems, a mall ninja.

I did LOL at this though
Quote:
There is no fun in concealed carry; it’s a profession that must be executed by professionals.
I am sorry but concealed carry didn't make me any different, it didn't make me a professional, and it sure as shit didn't charge me with some responsibility to "take out the tango and save the good guy". The guy that wrote this is obviously huge danger to himself and others, I advise anyone who reads this to take it with a grain of salt.
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post #22 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 01:23 PM
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TANGO DOWN !!!!!!

lolz
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post #23 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 01:39 PM
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He forgot to take their money and watch in between reloading and CPR
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post #24 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 02:54 PM
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post #25 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 03trubluGT View Post
If you are that paranoid, then you should never buy a new gun so that there won't be a paper trail. Be sure to use cash too, because if ever buy a gun or ammo with plastic, the man can keep tabs on you.
You think I'm paranoid? You must've missed the recent law passed in CA concerning the purchase of ammo.

Or maybe you've forgotten the gun laws that have been passed in Jolly Old England recently.

And then again, maybe you are completely oblivious to who is in Congress and the White House too.

I can dang near guarantee that within the remainder of my life time, I will get to say "I told you so" on this one.
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post #26 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 07:19 PM
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You think I'm paranoid? You must've missed the recent law passed in CA concerning the purchase of ammo.

Or maybe you've forgotten the gun laws that have been passed in Jolly Old England recently.

And then again, maybe you are completely oblivious to who is in Congress and the White House too.

I can dang near guarantee that within the remainder of my life time, I will get to say "I told you so" on this one.
I won't have to worry about it for at least another 12 years.

Also, there are more people with guns than there are people to enforce the laws that the current administration can pass. There will be a huge bloodbath if they try to disarm America.
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post #27 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 10:44 PM
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Legally you have 48hr to provide a statement, due to mental distress. Your statement should not be given to the officer without legal counsel first. You are going to be arrested and held pending investigation, period. It will most likely go before a grand jury. When the officer starts asking questions, they are building a case against you. My chl instructor, retired pd, advised saying nothing and lawyer up. Incorrectly stating a fact, can bite you in the ass.

"It's very dangerous to wave to people you don't know. Because what if they don't have hands? They'll think you're cocky."
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post #28 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 11:08 PM
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I won't have to worry about it for at least another 12 years.

Also, there are more people with guns than there are people to enforce the laws that the current administration can pass. There will be a huge bloodbath if they try to disarm America.
Why 12 years? I think being proactive in this case is much more prudent.

I agree. Thomas Jefferson also agreed when he said, "The beauty of the 2nd amendment is that it won't be needed until they try and take it away."

My only hint of advice would be never believe what anyone in the government says, just watch what they do.
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post #29 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 12:39 AM
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Tangos...lol

I think that its just good practice to keep your mouth shut until you have a lawyer. If I were to ever shoot someone in a CCW case, I wouldnt talk to the police. I would simply say that I would like to cooperate to my fullest with my lawyer present. What the cop writes down might not be exactly what you said. Id rather be on voice recorder or camera at the station WITH my lawyer. You never know what the cop my misinterpret or write down wrong. Too big of a liability. On my 911 call, I would say that there was a shooting and Im the good guy and describe what Im wearing. I would NOT attempt first aide. Hell, Id be in the coffee shop on the corner way the hell away from the body before I even call. I wouldnt touch the body, I wouldnt go near the body, I would ask the guy if he was alive. You have no obligation to render first aide. If you are not a medical professional, what do you know?

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post #30 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 12:55 AM
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In some instances if you render first aid after shooting, they can flip it on you saying you weren't trained and did harm causing death or whatever else a lawyer can spin up. I know of a paramedic that cut a lady's bra off to save her life, only to be sued by the dumb bitch for personal damages.
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post #31 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by GADDIS View Post
Legally you have 48hr to provide a statement, due to mental distress. Your statement should not be given to the officer without legal counsel first. You are going to be arrested and held pending investigation, period. It will most likely go before a grand jury. When the officer starts asking questions, they are building a case against you. My chl instructor, retired pd, advised saying nothing and lawyer up. Incorrectly stating a fact, can bite you in the ass.
Can you please cite some statute or case law that supports this?
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post #32 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 06:26 AM
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Why 12 years? I think being proactive in this case is much more prudent.

I agree. Thomas Jefferson also agreed when he said, "The beauty of the 2nd amendment is that it won't be needed until they try and take it away."

My only hint of advice would be never believe what anyone in the government says, just watch what they do.
Because I have 12 years to retirement.

I wouldn't trust any politician (Republican or democrat) to any degree. They are the epitome of self serving creatures.
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post #33 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 06:27 AM
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Tangos...lol

I think that its just good practice to keep your mouth shut until you have a lawyer. If I were to ever shoot someone in a CCW case, I wouldnt talk to the police. I would simply say that I would like to cooperate to my fullest with my lawyer present. What the cop writes down might not be exactly what you said. Id rather be on voice recorder or camera at the station WITH my lawyer. You never know what the cop my misinterpret or write down wrong. Too big of a liability. On my 911 call, I would say that there was a shooting and Im the good guy and describe what Im wearing. I would NOT attempt first aide. Hell, Id be in the coffee shop on the corner way the hell away from the body before I even call. I wouldnt touch the body, I wouldnt go near the body, I would ask the guy if he was alive. You have no obligation to render first aide. If you are not a medical professional, what do you know?
So you'd rather look like a calloused killer to the grand jury? Hell, I'm not a certified mechanic, but I change my own oil.
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post #34 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 06:29 AM
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In some instances if you render first aid after shooting, they can flip it on you saying you weren't trained and did harm causing death or whatever else a lawyer can spin up. I know of a paramedic that cut a lady's bra off to save her life, only to be sued by the dumb bitch for personal damages.
Texas Good Samaritan Act

Article 6701d, Vernon's Civil Statutes ; Chapter 74, Civil Practice and Remedies Code Section 74.001

LIABILITY FOR EMERGENCY CARE

(a) a person who in good faith administers emergency care at the scene of an emergency or in a hospital is not liable in civil damages for an act performed during the emergency unless the act is wilfully or wantonly negligent.

(b) This section does not apply for care administered:

(1) for of in expectation of remuneration;

(2) by a person who was at the scene of the emergency because he or a person he represents as an agent was soliciting business or seeking to perform a service for remuneration;

(3) by a person who regularly administers emergency care in a hospital or emergency room; or

(4) by an admitting physician or a treating physician associated by the admitting physician of a patient bringing a health-care liability claim.

(V.A.C.S. Art. 1a (part).)

Section 74.002.

UNLICENSED MEDICAL PERSONNEL.

Persons not licensed in the healing arts who in good faith administer emergency care as emergency medical service personnel are not liable in civil damages for an act performed in administering the care unless the act is wilfully or wantonly negligent. This section applies without regard to whether the care is provided for or in expectation of remuneration.

(V.A.C.S. Art. 1a (part).)
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post #35 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 09:31 AM
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So you'd rather look like a calloused killer to the grand jury? Hell, I'm not a certified mechanic, but I change my own oil.
No, you ran away because you were scared he would get up and try and kill you. This is an instance where you run from your fears, not confront it. You shoot because you are in danger and get the hell away. Good Samaritan law doesnt protect me. I will legally have the responsibility to help someone when I finish nursing school, but safety first. You know how scene safety works and how its a priority. If someone just got shot and is still alive, odds are the scene isnt safe. I aint helping

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post #36 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 04:19 PM
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No, you ran away because you were scared he would get up and try and kill you. This is an instance where you run from your fears, not confront it. You shoot because you are in danger and get the hell away. Good Samaritan law doesnt protect me. I will legally have the responsibility to help someone when I finish nursing school, but safety first. You know how scene safety works and how its a priority. If someone just got shot and is still alive, odds are the scene isnt safe. I aint helping

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J/K. There is no right/wrong way because there will always be differences in each situation.
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post #37 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 05:15 PM
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Can you please cite some statute or case law that supports this?
This isnt a term paper and a perfect example of why I would not say anything without a lawyer. I dont know case law, nor should anyone build a defense on a well cited dfwstangs post.
My chl instructor stated you have up to 2 days to submit a statement after you have lawyer up'ed. He advised using that right to decompress from the situation so you can objectively look how the event unfolded. Before saying the wrong things and being locked into a statement. So I think its good advise, unless my lawyer has better advise. Which is why I would contact him before running my yapper.

"It's very dangerous to wave to people you don't know. Because what if they don't have hands? They'll think you're cocky."
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post #38 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 05:54 PM
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...

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I won't have to worry about it for at least another 12 years.

Also, there are more people with guns than there are people to enforce the laws that the current administration can pass. There will be a huge bloodbath if they try to disarm America.
But, they aren't going to do it all at once. They will do it one little law at a time. In which case, YOU will be forced to help them in order to keep your job. At what point will you decide it's too much?
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post #39 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 06:23 PM
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This isnt a term paper and a perfect example of why I would not say anything without a lawyer. I dont know case law, nor should anyone build a defense on a well cited dfwstangs post.
My chl instructor stated you have up to 2 days to submit a statement after you have lawyer up'ed. He advised using that right to decompress from the situation so you can objectively look how the event unfolded. Before saying the wrong things and being locked into a statement. So I think its good advise, unless my lawyer has better advise. Which is why I would contact him before running my yapper.
Your CHL instructor is an idiot. There is NO statute or grace period for providing a statement.

Here is the Texas CCP (Code of Criminal Procedure). Please look at the rules and tell me where you get 48 hours to make a statement:

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/

I find it funny that you would take his word as gospel, but not what anyone would tell you here...

Last edited by 03trubluGT; 12-31-2009 at 06:58 PM.
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post #40 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 06:27 PM
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But, they aren't going to do it all at once. They will do it one little law at a time. In which case, YOU will be forced to help them in order to keep your job. At what point will you decide it's too much?

There is more than one way to skin a cat, and that works both ways.

I would suspect that there would be some kind of "blue flu" or "sick out" if that really started to happen.

I know at least one guy at work that said the day they start making guns illegal and having us take away guns is the day that he turns in his tin.
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post #41 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 08:36 PM
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Your CHL instructor is an idiot. There is NO statute or grace period for providing a statement.

Here is the Texas CCP (Code of Criminal Procedure). Please look at the rules and tell me where you get 48 hours to make a statement:

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/

I find it funny that you would take his word as gospel, but not what anyone would tell you here...

Gospel, right. I think you missed my point. My lawyers advice would trump my chls instructors or any other advice read on the internet. Reguardless I would not make a statement without a lawyer. Since you know more than me about lawyering and stuff. Show me the laws requiring you to make a statement at the scene, or within a specific time frame of the crime.

"It's very dangerous to wave to people you don't know. Because what if they don't have hands? They'll think you're cocky."
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post #42 of 82 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 09:01 PM
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There have been a ton of shootings in Texas this last year, involving CHL's and the "castle doctrine". I haven't heard of a legitimate case (that's been public) of a grand jury indicting one of these cases. If you shoot someone, regardless of the circumstances, you will be referred to a grand jury. If I ever have to shoot someone to defend myself or a loved one, I will bury the other witness, and let the grand jury and the police sort it out. If it's an extreme enough circumstance, I don't really care what the police think.

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
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post #43 of 82 (permalink) Old 01-01-2010, 01:26 AM
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Where did this guy go? Anyone ever find out if he wrote or took it off of some board?

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #44 of 82 (permalink) Old 01-01-2010, 06:52 AM
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Where did this guy go? Anyone ever find out if he wrote or took it off of some board?
There's no way this big ol' bunch of crazy originated with him, and LMAOnaise at a stunter giving firearms advice!

Give me a dollar.
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post #45 of 82 (permalink) Old 01-01-2010, 08:41 AM
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Where did this guy go? Anyone ever find out if he wrote or took it off of some board?
https://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/show...30&postcount=5
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post #46 of 82 (permalink) Old 01-01-2010, 09:23 AM
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Gospel, right. I think you missed my point. My lawyers advice would trump my chls instructors or any other advice read on the internet. Reguardless I would not make a statement without a lawyer. Since you know more than me about lawyering and stuff. Show me the laws requiring you to make a statement at the scene, or within a specific time frame of the crime.
Do you have a lawyer? If so, why would you need one (a criminal defense atty) on a regular basis?

Actually here is the standard Miranda warning:

"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to be speak to an attorney, and to have an attorney present during any questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for you at government expense."

But, if you don't make any statement at the scene of a homocide, then there is no choice but to make an arrest and file charges without your input. I guarantee you that you will FORCE the DA to file a case and have it go before the grand jury. Again, at the grand jury, without your side, they will indict you and then you will have to spend THOUSANDS to an atty to defend you when this could have all been avoided if you had cooperated (as long as it was a justifiable shooting).

What about the Fort Worth man that shot and killed two burglars a couple of months ago? They kicked in his front door and he met them with a handgun. He fired shots and they ran, the first collapsed in a yard, and the second got into the vehicle. The homeowner said he was reaching under the seat and thought he had a gun, so he shot him. They both died. He went to homocide and provided a statement and was released without charges.

So, how old are you and what do you do for a living? I think your lack of experience with this topic is confusing you with what really happens.

Oh, and for the record, you never answered my first request to find the 48 hour rule.
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post #47 of 82 (permalink) Old 01-01-2010, 11:00 AM
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Too many people get their legal advice from Law & Order or (insert any procedural cop show).
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post #48 of 82 (permalink) Old 01-01-2010, 11:57 AM
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Ill say it again, I'm not a lawyer. My age and profession have nothing to do with the subject of this post. I do not have a need to keep a retainer, thanks for insinuating I'm the "type"person that needs one. Thats big of you.
As far as experience, goes. Well 3 friends of mine. One involved being raped, one his store was being robbed and the other one was a home burglary. All involved deadly force. Guess what, there was no question and release. They all took a ride after questioning. The DA didn't follow with charges on 2 and one was a no bill from a grand jury on the 3rd.
Can you prove the guy in fort worth provided his statement without a lawyer, or consulting with one first. Also how much time passed between the event and going to homicide to give a statement.
I'm not going to entertain searching on your link. I apologize for applying a time frame on making a statement. Point being there will be time to consult an lawyer.
Another point I was trying to make is each case is subjective. Even applying your example (castle doctrine) against an armed robbery in a 7-11. The variables are not the same, one eye witness misremembers your role the event. Your still going for a ride while they conduct the investigation. Question and release is not standard practice on homicide cases. After all is it not a homicide case, before they determine its a self defense case.

"It's very dangerous to wave to people you don't know. Because what if they don't have hands? They'll think you're cocky."
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post #49 of 82 (permalink) Old 01-01-2010, 01:10 PM
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Ill say it again, I'm not a lawyer. My age and profession have nothing to do with the subject of this post. I do not have a need to keep a retainer, thanks for insinuating I'm the "type"person that needs one. Thats big of you.
As far as experience, goes. Well 3 friends of mine. One involved being raped, one his store was being robbed and the other one was a home burglary. All involved deadly force. Guess what, there was no question and release. They all took a ride after questioning. The DA didn't follow with charges on 2 and one was a no bill from a grand jury on the 3rd.
Can you prove the guy in fort worth provided his statement without a lawyer, or consulting with one first. Also how much time passed between the event and going to homicide to give a statement.
I'm not going to entertain searching on your link. I apologize for applying a time frame on making a statement. Point being there will be time to consult an lawyer.
Another point I was trying to make is each case is subjective. Even applying your example (castle doctrine) against an armed robbery in a 7-11. The variables are not the same, one eye witness misremembers your role the event. Your still going for a ride while they conduct the investigation. Question and release is not standard practice on homicide cases. After all is it not a homicide case, before they determine its a self defense case.
Your age (or lack thereof) and line of work might explain your inexperience. I was just asking.

You are the one that said "My lawyers advice would trump my chls instructors" implying that you already have one, because I don't know of anyone that carries a lawyer in thier back pocket in situations like this.

The guy in FTW gave a statement on the scene. This info is from an officer that responded to the call. If you want an official document, I'll get you the service number and you can go buy a public copy of the report. They guy went to the homocide office after the initial investigation.

The only time that is allowed is that you will be read your rights and be asked for a statement. If you don't want to give one fine, we'll acommodate you. If not, you'll be taken into custody and booked. You'll have plenty of time to find a lawyer after bonding out.

From my 18 years experience, in straight homocide cases question and release doesn't happen, but in justifiable cases as in the one I mentioned, it happes quite frequently.

Last edited by 03trubluGT; 01-01-2010 at 01:48 PM.
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post #50 of 82 (permalink) Old 01-01-2010, 01:59 PM
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See, I misrepresent myself well. You thought I had a lawyer. I can only imagine how well id represent myself, if I waved my miranda rights and poorly answered questions. At the end of the day a clean shoot is a clean shoot, regardless of no bill, charges dropped, or question and release. Correct? Granted one of those is the more time and cost effective. Like I was saying every situation is different.
What kind of work do you do do in homicide?

"It's very dangerous to wave to people you don't know. Because what if they don't have hands? They'll think you're cocky."
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