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post #1 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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Shotgun Home defense ammo What to use?

I have my Mossberg 500 setup like I want to, but I don't think the universal 12 gauge ammo I have is the best thing to keep loaded at home. What is the best round to use, and where can I buy some?

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post #2 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 10:22 AM
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I have my remi 870 loaded with slugs and 00 buck. I alternate between the two. Slug first, then a 00 buck, then slug, until its fully loaded and ready to take out some walls if need be

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post #3 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by big_tiger View Post
I have my Mossberg 500 setup like I want to, but I don't think the universal 12 gauge ammo I have is the best thing to keep loaded at home. What is the best round to use, and where can I buy some?
I keep 00 buckshot in mine but then again I am a medium frame build with a lot of strength in my arms. To me I would go with what you can safely handle if it is a pistol grip type shotgun. Try a few different rounds out and see what you can shoot accurately and safely. In the end, even a bird shot is going to either kill them or make them wish they were dead at in home range. I also like to switch mine around sometimes like a bird shot then a buck shot and so on.
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post #4 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 10:40 AM
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7 1/2 shot as it will not penetrate walls and hit someone behind them i.e. kids etc. I keep buckshot in an ammo carrier in case I have to get through a wall.
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post #5 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 10:50 AM
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Really depends on your situation. Do you have other people living in the house with your or do you live alone? Do you have neighbors nearby or live out in the country. Like OC mentioned, you have to worry about over penetration and what might be behind what you are shooting. I keep mine loaded with 00 Buckshot with slugs in a buttstock carrier so I can easily alternate rounds if need be. I keep an AR nearby with a magazine loaded and handy but not in the rifle. I live alone and I'm on 4 acres of land so I've got some room to work with but still have to worry somewhat about neighbors.




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post #6 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 11:08 AM
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In a shotty in close company anything out of the gun is gonna fuck someones world all up wether it be buck or birdshot.
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post #7 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 11:16 AM
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I have mine loaded with #4 Buck.

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post #8 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 12:12 PM
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post #9 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 01:19 PM
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Since the po-leece use 00 buck, it's good enough for me.
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post #10 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 02:52 PM
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A MINIMUM is 0 BUCK. 7-1/2 shot will not reliably stop someone.

If you do a search on the internet, you will see where someone shot someone with a 12 guage with #6 shot 3 times. The intruder took the shotgun away from the home owner and still beat the hell out of him. The intruder was later picked up by the cops walking down the road. The dude had like 60 pellets stuck in him.

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Birdshot as a Defense Load
I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?

We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.

A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.

Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job.

But doesn't 00 Buck penetrate too much in interior walls to be a "safe" load in a home?
Yes, it does penetrate a lot. But any load that is going to be effective will need to penetrate walls to have enough power to penetrate bad guys. If our only concern was to be sure we didn't penetrate walls, we would use BB guns. However, BB guns will not stop bad guys.

Therefore, we must use loads that will STOP bad guys, and this means that they will also penetrate walls. So, be sure you hit the bad guy and do not shoot into walls where loved ones are on the other side.

When To Use Birdshot

"I saw a gunshot victim, about 5' 10" and 200 lbs, taken to the operating room with a shotgun wound to the chest. He was shot at a range of six feet at a distance of just over the pectoralis muscle. He was sitting on his front porch and walked to the ambulance. We explored the chest after x-rays were taken. The ER doc had said 'buckshot' wound, but this was obviously not accurate.

It was # 6 shot. There was a crater in the skin over an inch in diameter. When the shot hit the level of the ribs, it spread out about five inches. There was ONE pellet that had passed between the ribs and entered the pericardium, but not damaged the heart at all. As you say, 'use birdshot for little birds.'"

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post #11 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 06:09 PM
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A contact wound gutshot with birdshot will do the trick. It will be a slow, painful death, but it will work.
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post #12 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 07:30 PM
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When you shoot someone you are trying to stop them from doing whatever it is that they are doing that threatens you enough to shoot them in the first place; death is just a side effect. To stop them RIGHT FUCKEN NOW stick with #1 buck or bigger. Use Brenneke Black Magic or Tactical slugs if you have reason to believe that the person you are shooting at has on body armor of any sort. Mossberg also has some ghost ring sights that should be on you HD shot gun.
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post #13 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 09:13 PM
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Since the po-leece use 00 buck, it's good enough for me.
Well, yeah. If I have to unload on an intruder, I'm going for a DRT.
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post #14 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 11:00 PM
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I use Federal Low Recoil 00Buck. Got 500 rounds of it stocked up just in case. The 7 in the tube do not put him down.
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post #15 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-29-2009, 11:09 PM
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A contact wound gutshot with birdshot will do the trick. It will be a slow, painful death, but it will work.
why would you die at all?
birdshot is smaller than bb's, and lighter.
Not only would you not die, you certainly would not bleed to death later.

Why would you believe this?

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post #16 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 12:15 AM
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Hmmm...

I've put many 2" wide holes through the side of a car door with #7.5 bird shot at close range (shooting junk cars). Hitting someone 5 yards away with a short barrel will blanket them with 400+ pellets from the waist up, which should end most confrontations. The closer they are to the end of the barrel, the bigger mess it's going to make. At greater distances, the bird shot will lose it's effectiveness because of it's light weight and opening up of the shot pattern. For close quarters and lack of over penetration, in my opinion #7.5 bird shot is worth considering depending on your living arrangements and shooting skills.
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post #17 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 06:17 AM
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why would you die at all?
birdshot is smaller than bb's, and lighter.
Not only would you not die, you certainly would not bleed to death later.

Why would you believe this?
Because I've seen it first hand. A gut shot contact wound with a 12 ga. is very nasty.

I've also seen what a contact wound with a 10 ga. and T-shot will do to a human head. I saw a guy that used one and put the barrel to his forehead. It opened his skull like a coconut. He was sitting in a Honda Prelude and there was an ashtray sized piece of skull in the back dash...
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post #18 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 07:30 AM Thread Starter
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In my current situation, no rooms would be towards my firing path, and the next home is 20 yards away. It sounds like my universal ammo needs to be changed out with something a little bigger. What is the next size down from 00?

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post #19 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 07:42 AM
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why would you die at all?
birdshot is smaller than bb's, and lighter.
Not only would you not die, you certainly would not bleed to death later.

Why would you believe this?
You can't be serious.

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post #20 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 08:10 AM
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This is a sort of strange question imo. Let me ask "you" this. What shot will it take to stop you?

I usually keep #4 shot in mine, but I dont think anyone would laugh off being shot by #8's.
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post #21 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 08:35 AM
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I've been wanting to get some of this:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c....aspx?a=573019

These 12-ga. plastic wad Shells are loaded with a single .650 size pellet, along with six #1 buckshot pellets, for a solid hit. Muzzle Velocity: 1,300 F.P.S. Premium made in Italy
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post #22 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 08:43 AM
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I've been wanting to get some of this:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c....aspx?a=573019

These 12-ga. plastic wad Shells are loaded with a single .650 size pellet, along with six #1 buckshot pellets, for a solid hit. Muzzle Velocity: 1,300 F.P.S. Premium made in Italy

If you wanna split some let me know.
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post #23 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 09:38 AM
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I would love to take someone out with rounds loaded with flechettes and buckshot. I mean, I wouldn't LOVE to, but that's what I would like to use if I had to unload a round or two on someone.

And LOL at the dumbass saying getting hit with birdshot won't kill you.

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post #24 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 09:49 AM
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This is a sort of strange question imo. Let me ask "you" this. What shot will it take to stop you?

I usually keep #4 shot in mine, but I dont think anyone would laugh off being shot by #8's.
Psssshhhh... #8 is nothing more than rock salt! Didn't you know that???

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post #25 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 11:28 AM
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I read a book by a guy named Capstick who was a PH in Africa, he used a shotgun for hunting after wounded cats. Anyway he said after testing #1 penetrated alot better than 0,00 or even 000 just thought I'd throw that out there for ya'll. And as for the birdshot theory I scattered a cottontail all or a barbed wire fence with 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2 shot in front of a lil red-dot powder from aboout 30 feet away. I think it woould work on a intruder.

Last edited by dee; 11-30-2009 at 01:13 PM.
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post #26 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 12:54 PM
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Just a FYI to those that think #8's aren't enough. Maybe not the best choice, but I guarantee you that it would STOP anyone from reaching ya.

http://shilohtv.com/?p=2490
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post #27 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 01:41 PM
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If you wanna split some let me know.
I might just order some. I'll be sure and PM you when I do. I will use my Buyer's Card and go halvesies!
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post #28 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 01:58 PM
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I would love to take someone out with rounds loaded with flechettes and buckshot. I mean, I wouldn't LOVE to, but that's what I would like to use if I had to unload a round or two on someone.

And LOL at the dumbass saying getting hit with birdshot won't kill you.
Can you buy loaded flechette rounds? I found bulk flechette's in CTD's catalog and wondered what those would do in a shotgun...

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post #29 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 02:39 PM
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I've been wanting to get some of this:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c....aspx?a=573019

These 12-ga. plastic wad Shells are loaded with a single .650 size pellet, along with six #1 buckshot pellets, for a solid hit. Muzzle Velocity: 1,300 F.P.S. Premium made in Italy
Those aren't much more expensive than the Federal 00 Buckshot and 1 oz slugs I have loaded in mine. I think I paid $4 for 5, so $1 per round isn't much more. Definately looks like a devastating round.

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post #30 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 06:14 PM
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Because I've seen it first hand. A gut shot contact wound with a 12 ga. is very nasty.

I've also seen what a contact wound with a 10 ga. and T-shot will do to a human head. I saw a guy that used one and put the barrel to his forehead. It opened his skull like a coconut. He was sitting in a Honda Prelude and there was an ashtray sized piece of skull in the back dash...
so let me get this straight
you're counting on getting the barrel to touch the perp?
That is your defensive strategy?
To run up and stick the barrel under his chin?
he should be ok with that....what was i thinking?

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post #31 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 08:54 PM
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so let me get this straight
you're counting on getting the barrel to touch the perp?
That is your defensive strategy?
To run up and stick the barrel under his chin?
he should be ok with that....what was i thinking?
Did I say that? No.

I said it can be done. Let's not get into a pissing match over tactics.

You'd have to be one stupid MFer to stick around if someone pops a 12 ga round at you, I don't care if it's buckshot or #8 birdshot.
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post #32 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 09:30 PM
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so let me get this straight
you're counting on getting the barrel to touch the perp?
That is your defensive strategy?
To run up and stick the barrel under his chin?
he should be ok with that....what was i thinking?
You can come break into my house and I'll pop you with 1 1/18 of #7 1/2 shot and if you live I'll pay for your med bills.
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post #33 of 87 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 11:01 PM
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The U.S. Military has only one shotgun round that is 00 buck 2.75" shells with 9 pellets just like the ones pictured. On the shotgun qualifying course they actually count the number of pellets you put on the target out of the 15 rounds you shoot and score it based on a percentage.

Tacticool is not cool; it's bling.

Go with what works not with what looks coolest on the internet or sounds coolest by some convoluted silly argument. The US military has done all the research for you......
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post #34 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 07:21 AM
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I've been wanting to get some of this:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c....aspx?a=573019

These 12-ga. plastic wad Shells are loaded with a single .650 size pellet, along with six #1 buckshot pellets, for a solid hit. Muzzle Velocity: 1,300 F.P.S. Premium made in Italy
Nice find. I like the looks of these.
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post #35 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 07:21 AM
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The U.S. Military has only one shotgun round that is 00 buck 2.75" shells with 9 pellets just like the ones pictured. On the shotgun qualifying course they actually count the number of pellets you put on the target out of the 15 rounds you shoot and score it based on a percentage.

Tacticool is not cool; it's bling.

Go with what works not with what looks coolest on the internet or sounds coolest by some convoluted silly argument. The US military has done all the research for you......
The US Military also uses 9mm FMJs, too. Why? Because it's cheaper. If you believe the military has all of the correct answers, then you sir, are wrong. I'm not saying they are wrong with the shotgun shells.

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post #36 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 07:25 AM
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so let me get this straight
you're counting on getting the barrel to touch the perp?
That is your defensive strategy?
To run up and stick the barrel under his chin?
he should be ok with that....what was i thinking?
C'mon man! If a low base #8 dove shot can kill a bird from 30+ feet away it can do lethal damage from 6 to 10 feet away. From that distance there is no spread.

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post #37 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 07:49 AM
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The US Military also uses 9mm FMJs, too. Why? Because it's cheaper. If you believe the military has all of the correct answers, then you sir, are wrong. I'm not saying they are wrong with the shotgun shells.
Actually the US Military uses FMJ because of the Geneva Convention. All military services around the world are limited to Full Metal Jacket, they are not allowed to use hollow points, nosler tips, or specialty bullets. (Its technically a war crime if you do).

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post #38 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 07:51 AM
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C'mon man! If a low base #8 dove shot can kill a bird from 30+ feet away it can do lethal damage from 6 to 10 feet away. From that distance there is no spread.
I garen damn tee ya that he wouldn't want to take one from 30 feet. Much less 10 and closer.
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post #39 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 07:52 AM
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C'mon man! If a low base #8 dove shot can kill a bird from 30+ feet away it can do lethal damage from 6 to 10 feet away. From that distance there is no spread.
#8 bird shot only has to penetrate 1" of flesh to be deadly to a bird. It has to penetrate at LEAST 4" to stop a man. It may not do this. Go shoot 3-4 layers of clothing and you'll be shocked that it will stop most the pellets.

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post #40 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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Just a FYI to those that think #8's aren't enough. Maybe not the best choice, but I guarantee you that it would STOP anyone from reaching ya.

http://shilohtv.com/?p=2490
Quote:
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In colder claimants heavy cloths worn by a perpetrator would be an issue when taking upper body shots as the clothing would stop and slow down a good deal of the shot.
I am buying something bigger than what I have. My ammo is 7 1/2 shot.

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post #41 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 08:43 AM
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The U.S. Military has only one shotgun round that is 00 buck 2.75" shells with 9 pellets just like the ones pictured. On the shotgun qualifying course they actually count the number of pellets you put on the target out of the 15 rounds you shoot and score it based on a percentage.

Tacticool is not cool; it's bling.

Go with what works not with what looks coolest on the internet or sounds coolest by some convoluted silly argument. The US military has done all the research for you......
when I left Iraq in may they had taken away my soldiers 00 buck and given them non leathal shotgun shells.

my 870 is loaded with 00 buck and slugs. just saying

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post #42 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 08:57 AM
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#8 bird shot only has to penetrate 1" of flesh to be deadly to a bird. It has to penetrate at LEAST 4" to stop a man. It may not do this. Go shoot 3-4 layers of clothing and you'll be shocked that it will stop most the pellets.
From 8 to 10 feet away? Right...

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post #43 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by SS Junk View Post
From 8 to 10 feet away? Right...
You go load yours with #8, I'll keep 00 Buck in mine. I've done A LOT of hunting and have personal experience with Bird Shot against Hogs. Grapevine Lake (Army Corp) will not allow anything larger than #3 shot. I've shot a Hog at 10 feet with #4 shot and the SOB ran and kept running. It did NOT kill the hog at 10 feet. (I hit him in the neck/head area). There was lots of surface blood, but he did not go down. I tracked the hog for about 100 yards before the blood trail ended. Now when I've gone out to my lease and shot a hog with 00 Buck at 30 yards, it takes them down where they stand. A Hog and a human have about the same depth of organs and mass.

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post #44 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 09:41 AM
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post #45 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacotua View Post
You go load yours with #8, I'll keep 00 Buck in mine.
The argument is not whether or not #8 is the best load to use for home defense, but whether or not it can be lethal.

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post #46 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by slow06 View Post
Can you buy loaded flechette rounds? I found bulk flechette's in CTD's catalog and wondered what those would do in a shotgun...
http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalo...pecialtyexotic

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post #47 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS Junk View Post
The argument is not whether or not #8 is the best load to use for home defense, but whether or not it can be lethal.
Original Post asked what was the Best Load... Hence 00 BUCK.

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post #48 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 10:49 AM
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Jesus... By the time I replied the discussion had shifted to whether or not #8 could be lethal. That is what I replied to. Can you not see that? Is this what you want to argue about now?

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post #49 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SS Junk View Post
Jesus... By the time I replied the discussion had shifted to whether or not #8 could be lethal. That is what I replied to. Can you not see that? Is this what you want to argue about now?
A fork can be lethal, I still would not recommend it.

For home Defense, 00 buck should be the minimum in a 12 gauge.

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post #50 of 87 (permalink) Old 12-01-2009, 01:01 PM
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Good find, I love that website. After seeing that price never mind though, I will just figure out how to load them myself when the time comes.

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