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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-13-2009, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
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Thinking about buying a .308...Opinions please

I am thinking about buying a .308 in the near future. I have been kicking around the idea for a while now. I am looking at the Remingtons and Savages. Can anybody give me any input on these two, or should I look at something else. I know Remington has several different models. Pros/Cons on the different models?

Thanks

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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-13-2009, 11:10 PM
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I picked up a Remington 700 SPS (.308) with a bipod and Nikon Monarch scope and dig it.



I shoulda' done one more day's research on them and found a VTR or anything else out there with a bull barrel, but it's fine for what it is. So far, it's only been tested to 200 yds and shoots like a champ.

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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-13-2009, 11:46 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by VETTKLR View Post
I picked up a Remington 700 SPS (.308) with a bipod and Nikon Monarch scope and dig it. I shoulda' done one more day's research on them and found a VTR or anything else out there with a bull barrel, but it's fine for what it is. So far, it's only been tested to 200 yds and shoots like a champ.
Nice! Do all the VTR's come with a bull barrel? I really want a black synthetic/stainless with bull barrel. Here is one of them that I was considering although its not black....

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...sert_recon.asp

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Last edited by Billyb0b81; 10-14-2009 at 12:13 AM.
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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 12:40 AM
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Now that is freakin badass!

The VTR's have a triangular shaped barrel that's way thicker than my SPS. Mine's the base model 700 and I dig the hell out of it. It's only bigger and better from mine on up!

If I could do it again, I'd spend the extra cake on the 5-R, but I'm a bolt action newb and this one works jes' fine Stainless would be pretty damn nice too


oh yeah...these remmy 700's are like Mustangs to the aftermarket world. The sky's the limit on what you can do with them

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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 12:55 AM
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Here is what I am looking into:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/42070

I think this is the VTR you guys are talking about for a little more:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/56460
or maybe this one
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/56461

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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 05:20 AM
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I'm in what's turning into a very slow process, but I'm building a Savage .308. I like it though, because I can do all the work myself, in my kitchen. Literally anyone can set the headspace on one of these.

Give me a dollar.
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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 07:26 AM
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The Remington 700 TWS can be found for $2400 brand new at gun shows. It's a package deal.
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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by slow06 View Post
I was looking into that one too, but how does the 20" barrel compare to the 22" or 24". Do you give up much accuracy at 300+ yards?

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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Yale View Post
I'm in what's turning into a very slow process, but I'm building a Savage .308. I like it though, because I can do all the work myself, in my kitchen. Literally anyone can set the headspace on one of these.
That is my idea too. Eventually I want to slowly customize it, but I want something that is accurate right out of the box until I get around to fixing it up. I really like the Savages too.

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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 09:26 AM
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I'm in what's turning into a very slow process, but I'm building a Savage .308. I like it though, because I can do all the work myself, in my kitchen. Literally anyone can set the headspace on one of these.
Dude the first time I met you you said you were building it. Finish that shit and lets go shoot stuff.
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post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 09:31 AM
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im looking at a m1a for my next .308.

you can't go wrong with a sps or the savage.id pick the remmy but the accutrigger is nice and some 10fp's had threaded barrels.god luck finding one though.

RON PAUL '08
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post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 09:32 AM
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I was looking into that one too, but how does the 20" barrel compare to the 22" or 24". Do you give up much accuracy at 300+ yards?
You may want to ask yourself the question of "How often will I be shooting 300+ yards?" and tailor your gun choice from there. The TWS makes a great all around gun that can be used in everything from urban environments to hunting. If you are going to be shooting 300+ yards often or in competition, you may want something else including taking a look at other calibers such as .300 win mag.
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post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 09:34 AM
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Dude the first time I met you you said you were building it. Finish that shit and lets go shoot stuff.
No shit. I think I remember him posting something about this gun back when the dfwstangs website was preparing for Y2K.
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post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 09:50 AM
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Very cool..
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post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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You may want to ask yourself the question of "How often will I be shooting 300+ yards?" and tailor your gun choice from there. The TWS makes a great all around gun that can be used in everything from urban environments to hunting. If you are going to be shooting 300+ yards often or in competition, you may want something else including taking a look at other calibers such as .300 win mag.
I am not shooting competition, rather just wanting to build a nice long range gun. I really like the 20" barrel, but far out will it hold a tight group? I already have a three .270's, a .243, two 30.06, 2 AR's, 1 SBR, M1 Garand and a few other rifles. I am just wanting to add a different caliber to my collection and want to build a sniper setup. If you have any opinions on different calibers please let me know.

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post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 11:01 AM
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I shot a friends Sako TRG 22. It seemed like a nice bolt action .308. Dont know jack about it though.
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post #17 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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I shot a friends Sako TRG 22. It seemed like a nice bolt action .308. Dont know jack about it though.
I have heard good things about the TRG 22, but I have never held or shot one.


I am also considering a .338 LM instead of a .308

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post #18 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 11:10 AM
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SPS tactical is the only way to go for remington. Or the Savage 10FP is not bad either. The 20" barrel is more rigid and is typically a slightly better shooter than the longer SPS-Varmint. Stay away from the VTR. Looks nice and all but you get a worse stock and a funny shaped barrel that is going out of style quickly. IF you want to save weight you can always have a barrel fluted but its not much of a big deal.
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post #19 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Billyb0b81 View Post
I am not shooting competition, rather just wanting to build a nice long range gun. I really like the 20" barrel, but far out will it hold a tight group? I already have a three .270's, a .243, two 30.06, 2 AR's, 1 SBR, M1 Garand and a few other rifles. I am just wanting to add a different caliber to my collection and want to build a sniper setup. If you have any opinions on different calibers please let me know.
A 20 inch barrel might not be the best for a "sniper" setup. I would go with a more standard length. Also, personally I don't like bull barrels. They look cool and the idea seems nice until you actually hold one and realize how heavy the motherfucker is. I would never stalk any game or field a bull barreled gun.

Also, take into consideration what scope you want. Many folks buy a hell of a gun, but then cheap out on glass. Make sure to find a scope with the zoom and aspect that you think you will need. I usually buy scopes that cost 2/3rds the price of the rifle. For 300 yard shooting, I would personally go with something with at least a 20x zoom. I like the vx-3 series a lot, one of the clearest scopes I have ever looked through.

Good price-
http://swfa.com/Leupold-65-20x40-VX-...pe-P12725.aspx


If you are strictly going to do bench rest shooting at a relatively fixed distance, try the SWFA SS series. They are only sold by a local company and all the reviews on them are fantastic. Most are fixed zoom, but 100+ yard shots with a fixed 16x or 20x would be appropriate. More info here-
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-Scopes-C1719.aspx


Good luck making a purchase.
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post #20 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 11:13 AM
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I have heard good things about the TRG 22, but I have never held or shot one.


I am also considering a .338 LM instead of a .308
It was a really smooth shooter and more than accurate for me.
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post #21 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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SPS tactical is the only way to go for remington. Or the Savage 10FP is not bad either. The 20" barrel is more rigid and is typically a slightly better shooter than the longer SPS-Varmint. Stay away from the VTR. Looks nice and all but you get a worse stock and a funny shaped barrel that is going out of style quickly. IF you want to save weight you can always have a barrel fluted but its not much of a big deal.
I was trying to look at the VTR barrel and couldn't decide what to make of it. I haven't seen one in person so I am not sure if I like it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DOHCTR View Post
A 20 inch barrel might not be the best for a "sniper" setup. I would go with a more standard length. Also, personally I don't like bull barrels. They look cool and the idea seems nice until you actually hold one and realize how heavy the motherfucker is. I would never stalk any game or field a bull barreled gun.

Also, take into consideration what scope you want. Many folks buy a hell of a gun, but then cheap out on glass. Make sure to find a scope with the zoom and aspect that you think you will need. I usually buy scopes that cost 2/3rds the price of the rifle. For 300 yard shooting, I would personally go with something with at least a 20x zoom. I like the vx-3 series a lot, one of the clearest scopes I have ever looked through.

Good price-
http://swfa.com/Leupold-65-20x40-VX-...pe-P12725.aspx


If you are strictly going to do bench rest shooting at a relatively fixed distance, try the SWFA SS series. They are only sold by a local company and all the reviews on them are fantastic. Most are fixed zoom, but 100+ yard shots with a fixed 16x or 20x would be appropriate. More info here-
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-Scopes-C1719.aspx


Good luck making a purchase.

Thanks, I was thinking of a 22 or 24 inch barrel myself. I do like the bull barrels and weight doesn't matter to me as I would never be taking this particular rifle in the field. As far as the glass, I wouldn't go cheap. Like you said, that is the biggest mistake people make is buying a nice gun and then going with cheap optics. Thanks for all the input.

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post #22 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 01:52 PM
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personally i would choose a Sako Finnlight .308
nice , light , 20" barrel
perfect for fielding IMO , which is the only way I would go ever.

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post #23 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 02:28 PM
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Long time ago I was looking into the VTR in .308 and found that the short length of the barrel did not go well with the .308 in accuracy. The triangle barrel is rather cool and supposed to provide the same strength of a bull barrel without the added weight. After looking around I decided to look for something else.
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post #24 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 04:50 PM
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You may want to look int Winchester and Ruger both are making heavy barreled .308's and supposed to be very accurate. The Winchester should be very accurate since its made by FNH and there quality control standardsd are very high.
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post #25 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 06:11 PM
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Dude the first time I met you you said you were building it. Finish that shit and lets go shoot stuff.
Geez! Alright!

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post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 07:22 PM
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Alex you just hate bull barrels since you weigh about 120 pounds. For us normal folks, a 12-15 pound rifle isn't as big of deal.
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post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 07:26 PM
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Alex you just hate bull barrels since you weigh about 120 pounds. For us normal folks, a 12-15 pound rifle isn't as big of deal.
He'll get tired of light ass rifles when he spends enough time at the range.

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post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 08:13 PM
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He'll get tired of light ass rifles when he spends enough time at the range.
No shit I have a light ass FN .30-06 that I dread having to sight in at the range. I could have swore the last time I shot it I had FN stamped into my shoulder.
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post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 08:18 PM
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He'll get tired of light ass rifles when he spends enough time at the range.
Hey now, I did put 20rds through the 300wsm the other weekend. The rifle is hella light and it did give my shoulder a pounding, but nothing over the top. I did get a nice scope crescent on my forehead though


Quote:
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Alex you just hate bull barrels since you weigh about 120 pounds. For us normal folks, a 12-15 pound rifle isn't as big of deal.
I weight an astonishing 160lbs now!
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post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 08:54 PM
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I am not shooting competition, rather just wanting to build a nice long range gun. I really like the 20" barrel, but far out will it hold a tight group? I already have a three .270's, a .243, two 30.06, 2 AR's, 1 SBR, M1 Garand and a few other rifles. I am just wanting to add a different caliber to my collection and want to build a sniper setup. If you have any opinions on different calibers please let me know.
I have been enjoying the .300 win mag lately. I have a couple of them. One stainless and one PSS. This round is powerful enough to hunt any game in the US, yet not too uncomfortable to shoot. The round is also as accurate as any and will shoot out way past 300 yards. Future plans include a threaded barrel that I can screw a muzzle brake onto and put a thread protector on when the brake is not in use.
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post #31 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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Does anybody have a .338 LM?

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post #32 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-14-2009, 11:46 PM
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You don't set a budget so first recomendation would be one of the steyr bolts

this one http://www.steyrarms.com/products/sp.../steyr-ssg-08/


that with a nightforce will get you to 1K easy

now if thats more than you want to spend you could look at one of the SSG series

If thats still too much I'd look at a Remmy 700 PSS A couple reasons why first like said before there are a number of bolt on easy to replace stocks, triggers, mounts.... available you can build what you want easily

Second the PSS comes with a McMillian stock that if you don't like you can sell. It comes with a thicker lug and a decent bull barrel.

I have a 20" PSS that I bought of a guy It had been tuned and tricked by Speedy and it shoots GREAT easy 500yrd shooter I haven't tried further but don't doubt it can handle it
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post #33 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-15-2009, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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You don't set a budget so first recomendation would be one of the steyr bolts

that with a nightforce will get you to 1K easy

now if thats more than you want to spend you could look at one of the SSG series

If thats still too much I'd look at a Remmy 700 PSS A couple reasons why first like said before there are a number of bolt on easy to replace stocks, triggers, mounts.... available you can build what you want easily

Second the PSS comes with a McMillian stock that if you don't like you can sell. It comes with a thicker lug and a decent bull barrel.

I have a 20" PSS that I bought of a guy It had been tuned and tricked by Speedy and it shoots GREAT easy 500yrd shooter I haven't tried further but don't doubt it can handle it

If I could get that with a nightforce for 1k I would buy as many as I could! I don't really have a budget in mind, but I am not buying a 5k-6k rifle.

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post #34 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-15-2009, 06:43 AM
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I have been enjoying the .300 win mag lately. I have a couple of them. One stainless and one PSS. This round is powerful enough to hunt any game in the US, yet not too uncomfortable to shoot. The round is also as accurate as any and will shoot out way past 300 yards. Future plans include a threaded barrel that I can screw a muzzle brake onto and put a thread protector on when the brake is not in use.
300 win mags have a nasty habit of eating the throat of the barrels also... Thats my biggest beef against them. (Too much pressure trying to push out the .30 cal bore.).

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post #35 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-15-2009, 09:28 AM
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300 win mags have a nasty habit of eating the throat of the barrels also... Thats my biggest beef against them. (Too much pressure trying to push out the .30 cal bore.).
Thats the first I heard of that, but I guess thats why most of the ones I've seen have muzzle breaks.

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post #36 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-15-2009, 09:35 AM
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I am thinking about buying a .308 in the near future. I have been kicking around the idea for a while now. I am looking at the Remingtons and Savages. Can anybody give me any input on these two, or should I look at something else. I know Remington has several different models. Pros/Cons on the different models?

Thanks
Sure there are Sako's and Weatherby Accu-Mark's that may be guaranteed for sub moa, but the best values are the Remington 700's and Savage Acc-triggers. Both remington and Savage have an unlimited aftermarket for barrels, actions, and triggers. Its really a preferrence of do I want a Ford Mustang or a Chevy Camaro...

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post #37 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-15-2009, 11:48 AM
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300 win mags have a nasty habit of eating the throat of the barrels also... Thats my biggest beef against them. (Too much pressure trying to push out the .30 cal bore.).
That's a first for me too. I talked to a guy at the range about 3 weeks ago who told me his 300wm had over 2,500 rounds through the original barrel. I asked if I could look at it and check it out. The crown was perfect. Where did you hear this?
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post #38 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-15-2009, 05:20 PM
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That's a first for me too. I talked to a guy at the range about 3 weeks ago who told me his 300wm had over 2,500 rounds through the original barrel. I asked if I could look at it and check it out. The crown was perfect. Where did you hear this?
The THROAT .. Not the crown.

The throat is where the bullet first makes contact with the rifling. Its a VERY common thing for a 300 win mag.

On a 300 win mag it starts around 1000 rounds fired... Do a google search on 300 win mag eroding throat

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post #39 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-15-2009, 06:24 PM
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The THROAT .. Not the crown.

The throat is where the bullet first makes contact with the rifling. Its a VERY common thing for a 300 win mag.

On a 300 win mag it starts around 1000 rounds fired... Do a google search on 300 win mag eroding throat
You should see how far the .300 wby mag has to jump in the throat. Yikes!

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post #40 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-15-2009, 10:20 PM
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The THROAT .. Not the crown.

The throat is where the bullet first makes contact with the rifling. Its a VERY common thing for a 300 win mag.

On a 300 win mag it starts around 1000 rounds fired... Do a google search on 300 win mag eroding throat
The barrel looked good from start to finish on that guys gun. There were no signs of wear. I checked it thoroughly because I wanted to know what my gun would look like after that many rounds.

I did do a search and it turned up some heresay on a 300 wm and some heresay on a 300 wsm??? Also, these all mentioned people loading their rounds extra hot. Nothing with pics or that was backed up with a witness etc. For something that you claim is VERY common, I couldn't find anything believable.

Got any links to actual pictures? Otherwise, I'm going to have to treat this as a wives-tale and go with my experience and conversations with people who actually shoot the round like I do.
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post #41 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-15-2009, 11:01 PM
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Here's the stock I was looking at, Alex:
http://rifle-stocks-order-page.easys...6#ITEM_2207659

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post #42 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-15-2009, 11:24 PM
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http://www.rifleshootermag.com/featu...06/index2.html

Quote:
.300 Win. Mag.
Introduced in 1963, the .300 Winchester Magnum has proven very effective in long-range competition and on the battlefield. Accurate and far reaching, the big "Win Mag" has long been the darling of 1,000-yard competition shooters. It performs extremely well and is capable of excellent accuracy at 1,000 yards.

Regarding military use, the Navy began playing with the .300 Winchester Magnum decades ago. The service wanted to extend the range of its snipers by giving them something with more "zing" than a .308 was capable of but without the signature and size of the .50 BMG.

The Navy originally began using a 185-grain Lapua FMJ-BT but eventually switched to a 190-grain Sierra MatchKing. Target velocity was 2,950 fps. During development of what came to be known as the A191 load, much work was done on the chamber design (headspacing off the shoulder, not the belt), and the result of this work is a flat-shooting and hard-hitting 1,200-yard cartridge. The downside to the .300 Winchester Magnum is heavier recoil and a relatively short barrel life--1,500 to 2,000 rounds.

Despite these drawbacks, the .300 Winchester Magnum is very popular with the U.S. military units fielding it. Although Sierra's 190-grain MatchKing (.533 BC) remains the standard, there are projectiles available with much higher BCs if you are willing to go up in weight. All in all, the big Win Mag is an excellent cartridge well-suited to long-range use.
300 win mag generally has a barrel life of 1500 rounds to 2000 rounds. If you search the net, you'll see this over and over.

2006 Mustang GT
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post #43 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacotua View Post
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/featu...06/index2.html



300 win mag generally has a barrel life of 1500 rounds to 2000 rounds. If you search the net, you'll see this over and over.
Like I said, it's just a wives-tale on the internet. Where are pics or proof of this supposedly VERY common issue? How come none of those links are written with first-hand experience to say something like "My barrel throat....."?

Are you going to let an internet opinion influence your beliefs or are you going to listen to first-hand experience?

It's just a wives-tale and I would rather listen to the guys who have been shooting the round like I do.
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post #44 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 10:26 AM
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I'd rather have a .260 rem if I was concerned about long range shooting. By and large, they have less bullet drop than .300 winmag, and are much more forgiving to shoot.

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post #45 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yale View Post
I'd rather have a .260 rem if I was concerned about long range shooting. By and large, they have less bullet drop than .300 winmag, and are much more forgiving to shoot.
But how much variety of factory ammo is there?

EDIT- Also will the energy be the same as the 300wm? Are there tests that prove that it has less bullet drop than the 300wm or is this opinion?

Last edited by Hass; 10-16-2009 at 10:45 AM.
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post #46 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hass View Post
Like I said, it's just a wives-tale on the internet. Where are pics or proof of this supposedly VERY common issue? How come none of those links are written with first-hand experience to say something like "My barrel throat....."?

Are you going to let an internet opinion influence your beliefs or are you going to listen to first-hand experience?

It's just a wives-tale and I would rather listen to the guys who have been shooting the round like I do.


C'mon, guys lets not argue over this thread. We all know that all barrels get worn and its not a problem to have the barrel replaced after 2000 shots. Thats what gunsmiths are for. Most of us will never shoot 2000 rounds in a single 300wm rifle. I know for sure I won't. After I've got mine dialed in then its being shot during my hunts. I may not even get off one shot during a hunt. Dacotua knows his stuff and was just enlightening the guy on his personal experiences.

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post #47 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra Commander View Post
C'mon, guys lets not argue over this thread. We all know that all barrels get worn and its not a problem to have the barrel replaced after 2000 shots. Thats what gunsmiths are for. Most of us will never shoot 2000 rounds in a single 300wm rifle. I know for sure I won't. After I've got mine dialed in then its being shot during my hunts. I may not even get off one shot during a hunt. Dacotua knows his stuff and was just enlightening the guy on his personal experiences.
Some of us shoot our rifles more than others and may anticipate shooting 5,000 rounds out of a 300wm. What's wrong with asking for clarification on something that seems to be an opinion posted as fact?

I don't hold any grudges against anyone about something that's posted on here. I'll discuss this over a beer with anyone here at any time.
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post #48 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hass View Post
But how much variety of factory ammo is there?

EDIT- Also will the energy be the same as the 300wm? Are there tests that prove that it has less bullet drop than the 300wm or is this opinion?
Short of shooting at elk sized game, I don't see it being a problem. Energy on target is around the same as a .308 at 1,000 yds. If I was shooting an Elk I'd want a .338 win mag, though.

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post #49 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yale View Post
Short of shooting at elk sized game, I don't see it being a problem. Energy on target is around the same as a .308 at 1,000 yds. If I was shooting an Elk I'd want a .338 win mag, though.
99% of Elk taken by ethical hunters is done within 250 yards. .308 at 168 grain is more than enough. Just messin' with ya' Yale!

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post #50 of 53 (permalink) Old 10-16-2009, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hass View Post
Some of us shoot our rifles more than others and may anticipate shooting 5,000 rounds out of a 300wm. What's wrong with asking for clarification on something that seems to be an opinion posted as fact?

I don't hold any grudges against anyone about something that's posted on here. I'll discuss this over a beer with anyone here at any time.


Yeah, theres nothing like being around at deer camp drinking beer and talking about guns!

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