Taurus Millenium Pro + WWB = I'm screwed - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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Taurus Millenium Pro + WWB = I'm screwed

Dang. I have a Taurus Millenium Pro in .45. I was shooting it one day and it just locked up tight. Turns out it had a live round in the chamber. Slide wouldn't open, trigger would cause the gun to go click click click, but the round wouldn't discharge. I called Taurus and they said obviously I can't send it to them with a round in there, so I gotta go to a gunsmith to get that round out.

I went to B&S guns on 30 and Beltline and dropped the gun off. A few days later I get a call from their gunsmith, "the gun is ruined." According to him, it looks like there was a bullet with no powder in it, and that lodged in the barrel. Next one fired, blew them both out, and swelled the barrel up and apparently busted some part of the firing mechanism. Next bullet fed, but won't fire and is locked in there. Sucks.

So what can I do? I can't ship the gun to Taurus, can't get the round out, can't fire it. He blames the Winchester white box ammo I was shooting. He said he's seen it before. He also said that the WWB at Wal-Mart (where I bought it) is somehow inferior to the same WWB that they sell, which I'm pretty sure is bullshit. On a side note, that guy is a dick, but that's not the point of the thread. I guess I'm just gonna have to suck it up and take a $400 hit on this gun, huh? Is there anything else I can do? Anybody else seen problems like this with WWB?

Edit: pics below. The slide will come back about 1/4", at which point the barrel starts to pivot down and the loaded chamber indicator starts to retract, but that's as far as it goes. I put it in a vice and couldn't get it open, and apparently nobody else could either.
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post #2 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 03:26 PM
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Ummmm, I really wouldnt be pointing that muzzle anywhere but down with a hot round stuck. That thing could go off any second.

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post #3 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 03:49 PM
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I would take to another smith and get a second opinion.
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post #4 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by vtstang66 View Post
So what can I do? I can't ship the gun to Taurus, can't get the round out, can't fire it. He blames the Winchester white box ammo I was shooting. He said he's seen it before. He also said that the WWB at Wal-Mart (where I bought it) is somehow inferior to the same WWB that they sell, which I'm pretty sure is bullshit. On a side note, that guy is a dick, but that's not the point of the thread. I guess I'm just gonna have to suck it up and take a $400 hit on this gun, huh? Is there anything else I can do? Anybody else seen problems like this with WWB?
Squibs happen with factory ammo more often than my ammo.

Send an e-mail to Winchester, keep the box and what you haven't shot yet, and they'll probably want you to send it in to them. IIRC, they should replace the gun for you. It's happened before.
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Ummmm, I really wouldnt be pointing that muzzle anywhere but down with a hot round stuck. That thing could go off any second.
Not with a busted firing mechanism. It's just like holding a round in your hand, next to your head.


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post #5 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 04:44 PM
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Not with a busted firing mechanism. It's just like holding a round in your hand, next to your head.
Yeah well, he didnt know that was the case until later.

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post #6 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 04:53 PM
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Take it to another gunsmith, I use Doc's up in Carrolton off Valwood & 35.

Are you sure that the squib round (the one that left the bullet in the barrel) cycled the action and loaded - and then fired- a second live round? If you had a bullet in the barrel and shot a following round you would've had a catastrophic failure as the slide and barrel would be in several pieces.

From my keyboard, it sounds like the squib'ed case is jamming the action, not a ballooned or split barrel. I don't think the handgun is a loss - just jammed.
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post #7 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 05:39 PM
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sounds like bs.take it elsewhere and call taurus before doing anything.

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post #8 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 06:19 PM
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I have the Mil pro 9 and shoot wwb though it all the time with no problems.

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post #9 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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Take it to another gunsmith, I use Doc's up in Carrolton off Valwood & 35.

Are you sure that the squib round (the one that left the bullet in the barrel) cycled the action and loaded - and then fired- a second live round? If you had a bullet in the barrel and shot a following round you would've had a catastrophic failure as the slide and barrel would be in several pieces.

From my keyboard, it sounds like the squib'ed case is jamming the action, not a ballooned or split barrel. I don't think the handgun is a loss - just jammed.
Second opinion does sound like a good idea, I'll look into Doc's. I'm not sure of anything. I agree it does seem likely that it would have failed catastrophically, but that isn't guaranteed, is it? As far as the case jamming the action, I've never seen a brass casing get stuck that tight. I had that thing in a vice banging on the back of the handle pretty hard, and I can't imagine an empty brass casing holding in there that tight.

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Yeah well, he didnt know that was the case until later.
I knew the gun wasn't going off as soon as I pulled the trigger about 25 times and heard nothing but clicks.

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Originally Posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino View Post
Squibs happen with factory ammo more often than my ammo.

Send an e-mail to Winchester, keep the box and what you haven't shot yet, and they'll probably want you to send it in to them. IIRC, they should replace the gun for you. It's happened before.Not with a busted firing mechanism. It's just like holding a round in your hand, next to your head.
I will call Winchester. I don't have any more of that box though, I shot the rest of it through my 1911 and threw it away. I do have another box that I bought at the same time, I suppose that should suffice.

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I have the Mil pro 9 and shoot wwb though it all the time with no problems.
Yeah I used to be able to say that too.
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post #10 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 07:52 PM
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Heard of a good gunsmith in plano...but hell if I can remember any details. Figure that may interest you being in Garland.

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post #11 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 08:37 PM
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I will call Winchester. I don't have any more of that box though, I shot the rest of it through my 1911 and threw it away. I do have another box that I bought at the same time, I suppose that should suffice.
Not unless it was the same lot/batch/whatever.


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post #12 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 08:38 PM
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I could get that bullet out its fairly easy and have done it before

I'd have to see it to see exactly how I'd do it but I think I know just from the pics

did the round in the chamber pop or is it totally unfired?
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post #13 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 08:44 PM
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Was there a pop with no bang and no recoil before it full jammed?
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post #14 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 09:34 PM
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yep, you got squibbed... luckily it didnt blow up in your hand.
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post #15 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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I could get that bullet out its fairly easy and have done it before

I'd have to see it to see exactly how I'd do it but I think I know just from the pics

did the round in the chamber pop or is it totally unfired?
I don't know for sure since there's no way to see it, but I'm about 98% sure it didn't pop at all based on sticking a rod down there and measuring how far down the barrel the end of the bullet is. I'm PMing you.

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Was there a pop with no bang and no recoil before it full jammed?
I was rapid firing at the time, I don't remember any difference in sound or recoil. The gunsmith said that since I was rapid firing it I wouldn't have been able to account for all the bullets hitting the backstop or notice a different sound. He said the primer alone wouldn't have been very much quieter than if there had been powder, and unless I was firing slowly I wouldn't probably have noticed. It's unfortunate, because of all the shots I fired that day, there were only about 3 mags that I went through like that. We were getting ready to leave and I was just burning through the end of the box.
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post #16 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 09:50 PM
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As a .45, if you fired with an obstructed barrel it would turn the handgun into slag. It ain't a pingpong popper with a double feed.

The primer alone would not (in my experiance) be enough to cycle the action unless you've lightened the spring. Doc will treat ya right, he's a freaking genius when it comes to firearms.
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post #17 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 10:01 PM
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As a .45, if you fired with an obstructed barrel it would turn the handgun into slag. It ain't a pingpong popper with a double feed.

The primer alone would not (in my experiance) be enough to cycle the action unless you've lightened the spring. Doc will treat ya right, he's a freaking genius when it comes to firearms.
yeah the primer will definately not cycle, I'm sure you probably manually racked it thinking it was a ftf.
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post #18 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-27-2009, 05:04 PM
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damn and i have had pretty good luck with WWB ammo
i got some damn aguila and that stuff is shit!
it's the only ammo i have ever used that did not function right in my glock 21
i couldn't get through a whole mag without two jams WTF

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post #19 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-27-2009, 05:52 PM
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Ive never had an issue with WWB, the only issue ive ever had with any ammo is one FTE on my XD 45 with Blazer brass, guess it was just a weak load?

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post #20 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-27-2009, 06:01 PM
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Winchester is manufacturing ammunition 24/7 at the moment to keep up with ridiculous demand - they are at such a large volume of production right now these kind of problems might very well arise. I shoot WWB all the time, just make sure you're very aware of your weapons recoil and what is and what isn't a properly discharged round.
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post #21 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-27-2009, 08:23 PM
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Winchester is manufacturing ammunition 24/7 at the moment to keep up with ridiculous demand - they are at such a large volume of production right now these kind of problems might very well arise. I shoot WWB all the time, just make sure you're very aware of your weapons recoil and what is and what isn't a properly discharged round.
I tink Winchester has the government contract for ammo also.
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post #22 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-28-2009, 12:02 PM
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I'll give you ten bucks for it....
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post #23 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-29-2009, 09:15 AM
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Heard of a good gunsmith in plano...but hell if I can remember any details. Figure that may interest you being in Garland.
Gun Master on Ave K close to Spring Creek is the place to go. That guy knows his shit...
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post #24 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-29-2009, 02:58 PM
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Gun Master on Ave K close to Spring Creek is the place to go. That guy knows his shit...
Ah, that might have been it. Knew it was not Bullet Trap....Gun Master seemed like a nice shop for sure.

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post #25 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-29-2009, 06:04 PM
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I'll give you ten bucks for it....
I got $15 for it.
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post #26 of 55 (permalink) Old 09-29-2009, 06:45 PM
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first and foremost, thank your lucky stars it was just about one of the cheapest automatics you could have blown up. I'd like to see if I could fix it honestly.
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post #27 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-05-2009, 05:51 PM
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So what was the outcome?
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post #28 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-06-2009, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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So what was the outcome?
I just talked to Winchester, they're going to issue shipping tickets for the gun and remaining ammo. I told her I can't get the round out, so she said I'm gonna have to just ship the whole gun with the round in there What are you guys' opinions on that? I know the Taurus manual says if you ship a loaded gun to them they're required to report your ass to the feds! I think I'll call back and get verification on that from a second person at least before I do it. Anyway the UPS tickets should be showing up here in the next couple of days. They said they'll run tests and figure out what to do. Unfortunately I do not have the "incident round," but she said send what I do have. (fingers crossed)
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post #29 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-06-2009, 12:47 PM
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I just talked to Winchester, they're going to issue shipping tickets for the gun and remaining ammo. I told her I can't get the round out, so she said I'm gonna have to just ship the whole gun with the round in there What are you guys' opinions on that? I know the Taurus manual says if you ship a loaded gun to them they're required to report your ass to the feds! I think I'll call back and get verification on that from a second person at least before I do it. Anyway the UPS tickets should be showing up here in the next couple of days. They said they'll run tests and figure out what to do. Unfortunately I do not have the "incident round," but she said send what I do have. (fingers crossed)
I'd proceed very carefully on the shipping and maybe verify with whoever you are using as to the condition of the gun. You could very well be looked at as shipping a loaded gun.




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post #30 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-06-2009, 12:55 PM
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I'd proceed very carefully on the shipping and maybe verify with whoever you are using as to the condition of the gun. You could very well be looked at as shipping a loaded gun.
is there a live round stuck in the chamber? Since the slide is stuck closed, I'd zip tie the trigger and hammer, just as a precaution.
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post #31 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-06-2009, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
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is there a live round stuck in the chamber? Since the slide is stuck closed, I'd zip tie the trigger and hammer, just as a precaution.
I'll definitely do that.
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post #32 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-07-2009, 07:54 AM
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I would not ship the gun....I would ask Winchester for an approved gunsmith in the DFW area who can take a look at the gun and make a determination on the ammo.
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post #33 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-07-2009, 05:51 PM
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I would not ship the gun....I would ask Winchester for an approved gunsmith in the DFW area who can take a look at the gun and make a determination on the ammo.
bingo......

LOL - that is defnitely shipping a loaded gun....

And I had a Colt 1911 Series 70 worked on by the guys at Gun Master in Plano - they are without a doubt the best.

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post #34 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-07-2009, 07:49 PM
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That a little scary. I'm surprised there wasn't a noticeable change in recoil trying to drive 2 rounds out the barrel. Look at the bright side of things though, you didn't get hurt and you might get a new weapon out it. I've never followed a squib with a live round, but I have seen what a double charge will do to a glock 23. Split the chamber, torched the mag, sheered the slide stop and mag release and i got a few hairs singed.

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post #35 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
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The saga continues

For those still tuned in, this took a new turn today. To recap, here's what happened so far: Locked the gun up. Called Taurus, they told me to get the round out and get back to them. Took it to B&S Guns, the gunsmith told me with 100% certainty that there was a squib round, double discharge, the barrel was swollen, and that's all she wrote. So I called Winchester, dicked around with them for a while, and here we are now.

I finally got back with them and cleared up the misunderstanding about shipping a loaded gun; they told me I need to get that slide cut off by a gunsmith and send them the cut up gun and the invoice and they'd run their tests and see what they concluded.

So this time I went to Gun Masters in Plano and dropped the gun off. To my surprise, the guy (Kent) got the gun apart, and didn't even charge me. Highly recommend. The barrel wasn't swollen, and that round was all fucked up. Pics below. Basically the guy told me that something was messed up about the sear, and he had to take it apart by removing the guide rails and slide together from the frame, then taking those apart. He said it should go back to Taurus, so tomorrow I'll get back with them and resume that angle.

The bullet was beat to hell and shoved down in the casing, presumably from something the gun at B&S did to it. The primer had been struck multiple times. That guy is lucky he didn't blow himself up. I couldn't put the gun back together because the slide still won't operate rearward, due to some obstruction that I can't see somewhere down in there. It would appear that two very unlikely events happened simultaneously: 1) The gun just randomly broke, and locked itself up, and 2) as it was dying, it loaded the only bad round out of hundreds of WWB that I've shot. What are the odds? What do you make of this?
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post #36 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-23-2009, 08:54 AM
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For those still tuned in, this took a new turn today. To recap, here's what happened so far: Locked the gun up. Called Taurus, they told me to get the round out and get back to them. Took it to B&S Guns, the gunsmith told me with 100% certainty that there was a squib round, double discharge, the barrel was swollen, and that's all she wrote. So I called Winchester, dicked around with them for a while, and here we are now.

I finally got back with them and cleared up the misunderstanding about shipping a loaded gun; they told me I need to get that slide cut off by a gunsmith and send them the cut up gun and the invoice and they'd run their tests and see what they concluded.

So this time I went to Gun Masters in Plano and dropped the gun off. To my surprise, the guy (Kent) got the gun apart, and didn't even charge me. Highly recommend. The barrel wasn't swollen, and that round was all fucked up. Pics below. Basically the guy told me that something was messed up about the sear, and he had to take it apart by removing the guide rails and slide together from the frame, then taking those apart. He said it should go back to Taurus, so tomorrow I'll get back with them and resume that angle.

The bullet was beat to hell and shoved down in the casing, presumably from something the gun at B&S did to it. The primer had been struck multiple times. That guy is lucky he didn't blow himself up. I couldn't put the gun back together because the slide still won't operate rearward, due to some obstruction that I can't see somewhere down in there. It would appear that two very unlikely events happened simultaneously: 1) The gun just randomly broke, and locked itself up, and 2) as it was dying, it loaded the only bad round out of hundreds of WWB that I've shot. What are the odds? What do you make of this?

You'll get your gun fixed by Taurus for free I'm sure, however it was probably Murphy playing with you.

Dud round at the same time as something jammed or broke in your sear area.

Thats my personal opinion.

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post #37 of 55 (permalink) Old 10-23-2009, 05:54 PM
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Props to Gun Masters!


Hopefully Taurus will stand up and take care of it for it.

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post #38 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-03-2009, 08:27 AM
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I'm a little late to the party here, but I'll go ahead and throw in my two cents regarding WWB. The only dud round I've ever had was out of a box of WWB 9mm, and it was while I was shooting my wife's Taurus 24/7. WWB is definitely cheap ammo, but I don't see that being what caused your problem. I feel it was just a coincidence that the gun broke and you got a bad round all at the same time.

From what I've heard, Taurus' customer service leaves something to be desired, but that they usually will take care of their customers.....it just may take a month or two before you hear anything back from them.
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post #39 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 12:11 AM
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I've shot tens of thousands of WWB within the last 6 months and I've never had a single misfire or failure to fire from any of the ammunition. I think Cobra or Fiux could testify that there has been ample quality control on my part for Winchester white box.

But, coincidentally - I have experience 3 failure to fires from a .45 auto, and all 3 of them were a Taurus millennium pro. One of the times I pulled the trigger 10-15 times and it eventually fired the round, and the ammunition was perfectly fine in every other handgun I used. I can't say I think too highly of those particular weapons, but some people love them.
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post #40 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ View Post
I've shot tens of thousands of WWB within the last 6 months and I've never had a single misfire or failure to fire from any of the ammunition. I think Cobra or Fiux could testify that there has been ample quality control on my part for Winchester white box.

But, coincidentally - I have experience 3 failure to fires from a .45 auto, and all 3 of them were a Taurus millennium pro. One of the times I pulled the trigger 10-15 times and it eventually fired the round, and the ammunition was perfectly fine in every other handgun I used. I can't say I think too highly of those particular weapons, but some people love them.
I've been very curious about this (WWB) ammo and it's quality. Haven't shot any yet but a guy I work with is suggesting I use it for plinking. I found some PRVI-PARTASAN (.45) for approx $21.xx for a box of 50rnds and shot two boxes last weekend with no problems. I need some cheap ammo to use while I get used to the new gun. I may give it a try.


David
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post #41 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 09:35 AM
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I've shot nearly 1,000 rounds of WWB through my .40 XD. Not a single issue.

'05 Redfire Mustang

"Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey
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post #42 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 01:53 PM
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I've been very curious about this (WWB) ammo and it's quality. Haven't shot any yet but a guy I work with is suggesting I use it for plinking. I found some PRVI-PARTASAN (.45) for approx $21.xx for a box of 50rnds and shot two boxes last weekend with no problems. I need some cheap ammo to use while I get used to the new gun. I may give it a try.


David
It's good ammunition in my opinion. I've never had a single failure with it. Obviously pay attention to when you're firing if for some reason you get a squib, but I wouldn't count on it.
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post #43 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 01:54 PM
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It's good ammunition in my opinion. I've never had a single failure with it. Obviously pay attention to when you're firing if for some reason you get a squib, but I wouldn't count on it.
What does it run for a box of .45, if you know off hand.

Thnx,

David
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post #44 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 01:58 PM
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What does it run for a box of .45, if you know off hand.

Thnx,

David
100rds 29.99 @ walmart

cheapest .45 ACP you can get.
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post #45 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 02:10 PM
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Thanks man.

I've called (and gone by) Wally world several times and they don't ever seem to have any .45. I guess you just have to be lucky with your timing.


David
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post #46 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 06:28 PM
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I'll give you ten bucks for it....
lol

when the turbos are spinning ,you ain't winning...
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post #47 of 55 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 06:50 PM
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Thanks man.

I've called (and gone by) Wally world several times and they don't ever seem to have any .45. I guess you just have to be lucky with your timing.


David
It's the official sport of the dfwstangs armory. There are tactics and strategies that must be utilized.
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post #48 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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Sent the gun to Taurus on 11/3, received it back on 11/24. They sent me a new case with it since I just sent the gun in a box. They enclosed a note:

Problem: missing parts
Repair: replaced

I haven't shot it yet but it seems to be fixed.
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post #49 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 01:52 PM
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Not a bad turn around time.
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post #50 of 55 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 02:36 PM
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This confirms that B&S guns SUCK!!!
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