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post #1 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-23-2009, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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first gun

Ok I am about to purchase my first gun. I want a something to keep in my desk and carry in my truck. I am looking at a taurus mil. pro 9mm . Any other suggestions or is this a good first gun. I will be taking my chl soon. I don't know alot about guns but with the world changing now seems the time to learn.
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post #2 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-23-2009, 11:06 PM
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Go to a gun store and ask to hold each pistol you see interest in.

Then buy something that feels most comfortable in your hands.
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post #3 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-23-2009, 11:09 PM
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Thats what I carry. I like it a lot.

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post #4 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 12:14 AM
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that's what my wife carries. i carry my springfield xd9 or xd40. like was stated earlier, find a gun store and hold different models and see which you like best. if you found one that would rent you the guns to try also that would be good too
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post #5 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 12:46 AM
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xd45 here... its comfortable and reliable. Go to a local store and check out the guns. Check online for prices as well.. Not paying tax on a $500 gun is nice. BudsGunShop does free shipping..just pay your FFL $15 to transfer. They have great prices too.

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post #6 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 04:36 PM
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Have you shot pistols before? Who will be using it, you, your wife, both of you? There's a lot of mixed opinions on the 9. It was a great caliber 20 years ago but I think there are better ones now. I like a 45 myself. Also consider whether you want a SA or revolver. Will you be carrying it or keeping it in your house/car (edit, just re-read)? Lots to consider.

I do agree with what these other guys said though, picking them up and handling them is a good place to start, then maybe go back and research the ones you like a little more thoroughly.

Last edited by vtstang66; 09-24-2009 at 04:44 PM.
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post #7 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 05:35 PM
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there's a lot of mixed opinions on the 9. It was a great caliber 20 years ago but i think there are better ones now. I like a 45 myself.
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post #8 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 05:44 PM
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It also depends on how big of a guy you are, sometimes a larger caliber like a .45 is not manageable and might do more harm than good. I prefer a .45 myself.
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post #9 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 06:02 PM
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There's a lot of mixed opinions on the 9. It was a great caliber 20 years ago but I think there are better ones now. I like a 45 myself.
You are a moron. 9mm has gotten tons better over the last 20 years. Most modern 9mm HP +p loads rival a .45 in every way.
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post #10 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 06:36 PM
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You are a moron. 9mm has gotten tons better over the last 20 years. Most modern 9mm HP +p loads rival a .45 in every way.
They're still little bitty bullets that get stuck inside my .45 cases and piss me off.

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post #11 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-24-2009, 07:43 PM
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They're still little bitty bullets that get stuck inside my .45 cases and piss me off.

lol don't you hate that

There is nothing wrong with 9mm, I'm a 1911 lover, and I've got plenty of .45, but most of the modern 9mm JHP rounds are great performers. The 147gr HST is supposed to be a really nice round, and it only gives up a little expanded size compared to its .45 brother. Hell, I'm going to be picking up my XD9 Subcompact saturday... 13+1 in a subcompact FTW!!

To the OP, buy what you shoot best; a .380 that you can put on target consistently, and quickly is better than the .40 that you have trouble shooting good groups with. At the end of the day it's all about shot placement when dealing with pistol rounds

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post #12 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 08:28 AM
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It's all about personal preference. Go to any gun store and just hold several of them. Find the one that fits your hand. (this is extremely important) Go home and look up the weapon you like, and make sure you did not chose a bad weapon.

Just to clear up a few myths. A 9MM and .45 has exactly the same penetration capability, the .45 just makes a bigger hole.

Look up "The box of truth" on the net.

I prefer the CZ 75 compact to carry, I keep it with me at all times. But I do like the .45 for the big bang affect. But if you want the big bang affect and unsurpassed penetration , find a CZ 52. It will penetrate level II armor. It shoots a 7.62X25 round. And they are cheep!



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post #13 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 12:55 PM
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Just to clear up a few myths. A 9MM and .45 has exactly the same penetration capability, the .45 just makes a bigger hole.

Look up "The box of truth" on the net.

Looked up "The box of truth" and it confirms the issue with the 9mm. It is the penetration that is the problem. The 9mm runs too hot causing through and through with minimum damage. The 9mm averages around 1100 fps where the .45avgs around 800.
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post #14 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 01:33 PM
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post #15 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 01:46 PM
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Looked up "The box of truth" and it confirms the issue with the 9mm. It is the penetration that is the problem. The 9mm runs too hot causing through and through with minimum damage. The 9mm averages around 1100 fps where the .45avgs around 800.
That is not accurate. I did comparison a while back that showed the .45 having more penetration than the 9mm. Forgive the language ... it was directed at another idiot.


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You are a fucking idiot. You clearly dont understand what the fuck you are talking about. Just because some gun shop commando says its so dosent make it fact.

I carry a 9mm every day, must make me a pussy huh? Wonder why the balistic data of the 9mm round I carry shows the 9mm is close in preformance to the .45 version of the same round ....

RA9TA from a 4 inch barrel
1240 Ft/Sec
433 Ft/Lb

RA45TP Fired from a 5 inch barrel
985 Ft/sec
495 Ft/Lb

I add that plus the fact that I am carrying 5 more rounds than I would be if I had a .45 in the same gun that I carry. In my mind thats 5 more shots that I can get in the vicinity of the target without a reload. If you think that you are going to get most of your rounds on target when you are freaking out you are a stupid naive person.

One more point on why I think the 9mm is a bit better of a choice for a new/broke shooter. 9mm is a shit ton cheaper than .45 is, I have been seeing a box of .45 selling in stores for 40-50 bucks for FMJ!!! You can still find 9mm in stores for less than 10 bucks a box. I think that the ability to afford more ammo to practice and learn how to hit COM effectively FAR outweighs the guy that totes a .45 and only can afford to shoot half as much as the 9mm shooter.

9mm = Cheap and effective ammo to practice ALOT more
.45 = Expensive, less bullets in the mag, less practice time.

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Wow. Resulting to name calling because we have a difference of opinion.
I just get really tired of People giving bad information like "be a man, get a .45" to new shooters. Thats like telling a kid that just took the MSF class to jump on a 1000 and do a few laps on a track. If he decided for whatever reason that both he and his wife want to shoot .45 than so be it. But to suggest to a new shooter and his new shooter wife that a .45 is the biggest and the greatest is rather stupid.

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Let me preface this by saying that I am not a handgun expert and I don't sit around reading guns and ammo books all day. I only speak of what I have seen personally.
Im no expert eather, I just retain alot of information.

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A 9mm is a higher velocity round so it tends to go through the target. A .45 will penetrate and create a buzzsaw affect and wreak havoc on internal organs. I prefer to have the heavier .45 round when I am in close quarters with the enemy.
Yes 9mm is higher velocity but no, it does not tend to go through the target any more than a .45. In fact using the winchester loads that I provided data on earler (RA9TA and RA45TP) the .45 penatrates further than the 9mm by 2.275" on average where as the .45 only expanded .11" larger than the 9mm on average.

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I have seen a suspect take 17 rounds from a 9MM before he went down. I have also seen a similar suspect (body shape, build, mental state) go down with 3 rounds from a .45.
I have seen the same videos and storys. I also rember seeing something posted here where a guy took multaple hits from a rifle and was still fighting police when he was being loaded onto a stretcher. This is where the amount of practice the 9mm affords you comes in. The guy that too 17 hits of 9mm probably wasnt hit in vital areas till the last shots. If the cop had been carrying a 1911 or something of the like he would have had to reload and continue shooting. More practice = quicker stop of the attacker ... dosent matter what round you are shooting at him (as long as it isnt .25acp)

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The military has since switched back to .45 from the 9mm for this same reason. I could care less about the cost of ammo. I had plenty before the supply went down and prices went up.
What information are you going on here? I have heard of no plans to phase out 9mm and go back to .45. I have heard about special ops units using .45s lately, but nothing indicating that the military as a whole is going to .45.

As for your stockpile comment, the new shooter doesnt have a stockpile. He needs to get shooting now, not when prices drop again. Dont you think that a ruger 9mm with a fair amount of practice is lightyears ahead of a wilson combat 1911 that the owner has only fired 50 rounds out of it?
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post #16 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 01:50 PM
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post #17 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 01:51 PM
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I think Patrick is going to find a way to argue a 9mm is better than a .45 with every single member of the board eventually, haha.
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post #18 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 02:02 PM
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I think Patrick is going to find a way to argue a 9mm is better than a .45 with every single member of the board eventually, haha.
Facts are facts man. I am not disputing the fact that .45 is a great round, just pointing out the fact that the 9mm is a viable self defense caliber. I never said that a 9mm is a better preforming round by any stretch, just that in the small size of the round it has many great attributes.
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post #19 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 02:04 PM
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I keep a Springfield XD40 subcompact on me everywhere I go. I'm not a big guy and it isn't too much for me. I agree with everyone else though, go and hold what you are looking at, make sure it feels right in your hand, if they will let you take it for a test spin, by all means, do it.

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post #20 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 02:10 PM
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Facts are facts man. I am not disputing the fact that .45 is a great round, just pointing out the fact that the 9mm is a viable self defense caliber. I never said that a 9mm is a better preforming round by any stretch, just that in the small size of the round it has many great attributes.
it is substantially higher velocity than a .45. But that slower velocity gives the .45 more potential to do higher tissue damage. The 9mm benefits from the opposite, it can penetrate armor, but tends to do less damage because of it's smaller diameter - and also it over penetrates. However, I've never really subscribed to the 9mm being a lower recoil round - I've always found it to be quite a bit more snappy and not as easy to stay on target with than a .45, but then again I carry a full frame .45, and most of the 9's I've shot are compacts. The extra capacity and velocity of a 9mm is it's selling points, those are it's primary caveats. The .45 is a more powerful, larger round which generally does more damage and rarely over penetrates - it's safe to shoot someone in a gas station without worrying about shooting someone behind them. I personally don't expect to come into contact with someone wearing body armor. I feel that with time being of the essence and fractions of a second counting - I'd rather have a round that is most likely going to completely disable someone the quickest way possible regardless of where it lands. I don't prepare for having a gun battle where I need 15 rounds in my pistol - 8 should be 7 more than is required.
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post #21 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 02:17 PM
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it is substantially higher velocity than a .45. But that slower velocity gives the .45 more potential to do higher tissue damage. The 9mm benefits from the opposite, it can penetrate armor, but tends to do less damage because of it's smaller diameter - and also it over penetrates. However, I've never really subscribed to the 9mm being a lower recoil round - I've always found it to be quite a bit more snappy and not as easy to stay on target with than a .45, but then again I carry a full frame .45, and most of the 9's I've shot are compacts. The extra capacity and velocity of a 9mm is it's selling points, those are it's primary caveats. The .45 is a more powerful, larger round which generally does more damage and rarely over penetrates - it's safe to shoot someone in a gas station without worrying about shooting someone behind them. I personally don't expect to come into contact with someone wearing body armor. I feel that with time being of the essence and fractions of a second counting - I'd rather have a round that is most likely going to completely disable someone the quickest way possible regardless of where it lands. I don't prepare for having a gun battle where I need 15 rounds in my pistol - 8 should be 7 more than is required.

First, the .45 penetrates further than the 9mm (based on the SXT ammo I used for the writeup) Second, you and I both know that shot placement makes a huge diffrance. I dont care if you shoot someone with a 44 mag, if you dont hit vitals it isnt going to put the guy down. I will agree that the .45 does more damage due to the larger diameter and the fact it penetrates more though.

As for only needing 8 rounds .... You just dont know that do you? If I knew that I was only going to need 1-2 shots I would carry something more appropriate. Fact is though, we dont know if the BG is going to be all fucked up on drugs requiring more trauma to stop him. More bullets is the only thing that can induce more trauma. In my opinion it is the LB/FT of energy that is delivered on target that causes the trauma, your gun can hand out 4455 LB/FT of energy with one mag where my 9mm can hand out 6062 LB/FT of energy with one mag.

Last edited by Pokulski-Blatz; 09-25-2009 at 02:23 PM.
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post #22 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 02:41 PM
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Also the comparisons on the two individuals could be effected by amout of drugs in perps system.

To the OP best thing to do is hold alots of diff. models and also shoot them if possible.
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post #23 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 02:46 PM
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I recently picked up a Glock 19 for my first pistol. It is not a sub compact, fits my hand very nicely, moderately concealable, and cheap to shoot. As far as round size is concerned, I use gold dots and am confident in their ability. So far i have had no volunteers to hold the targets while i practice with my "little rounds".
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post #24 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 02:51 PM
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http://www.btfh.net/shoot/bullet-test-7.html

There you go... Same test medium, 4 layers of denim and soaked phone books. Basically identical penetration with the size advantage going to the .45 as expected. I would trust my life to either of them, but I will say that a non +p 9mm has much less felt recoil compared to the .45 in my aluminum frame CDP.

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post #25 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the input. I am going to the gun show this weekend and look at different ones. I don't want anything to big or hard to handle since my wife will have access to it also. I have been putting off buying one, but there are to many crack heads in the world today. Even small towns are not as safe as they once were.
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post #26 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 03:00 PM
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If you don't plan on carrying the weapon I would get one with a lil longer barrel it can help control for an new shooter.
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post #27 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 07:55 PM
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I'd like to make note that I did not intend to get into your .45 vs. 9mm discussion, I was just joking around with you. But, I will indulge this one time.

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First, the .45 penetrates further than the 9mm (based on the SXT ammo I used for the writeup) Second, you and I both know that shot placement makes a huge diffrance. I dont care if you shoot someone with a 44 mag, if you dont hit vitals it isnt going to put the guy down. I will agree that the .45 does more damage due to the larger diameter and the fact it penetrates more though.
I thought we solved this question at the river when I shot the styrofoam block with my .45 and it didn't over penetrate, and with your 9mm and every round went through - whether it was +P, +P+, or standard power JHP or FMJ - I remember you shot them all. I was firing a standard federal JHP and none over penetrated - actually I believe my .45 was the only caliber that didn't - even the .22LR penetrated. I then fired a .45 Super load at it - 185 gr JHP 1,300 ft/s 694 ft·lb - obviously that over-penetrated, but the idea was I could load either round, whether it be standard charge .45 JHP off the shelf which will not over penetrate, or a extremely hot .45 super load and do both and substantially more - there is always that option.

What I'm saying is I'm going to take the round that does more damage than the one that does less. It only takes enough motor skills to move your index finger to shoot me, so I take that into account, and want the absolute most damage possible per shot fired. Placement is great, but in the heat of a fight, you don't always have the peace of mind to aim a shot.



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As for only needing 8 rounds .... You just dont know that do you? If I knew that I was only going to need 1-2 shots I would carry something more appropriate. Fact is though, we dont know if the BG is going to be all fucked up on drugs requiring more trauma to stop him. More bullets is the only thing that can induce more trauma. In my opinion it is the LB/FT of energy that is delivered on target that causes the trauma, your gun can hand out 4455 LB/FT of energy with one mag where my 9mm can hand out 6062 LB/FT of energy with one mag.

Well see you contradict yourself here, before you were talking shot placement and it doesn't matter how powerful a round is if it's in the head (for instance) - but now you're adding up the total of ft lbs of energy in a full magazine. So, essentially now you're giving a supporting argument about pumping someone with 15 rounds. With adrenaline taken into account, I really don't think I'm going to fire all 8 of my rounds into the ground or into the sky. What my original point was focusing on, and which still applies to this argument - is that you can't fire your 9mm faster than I can fire my .45, me and you both squeeze the trigger at the same speed - if you can accept that, then what really matters to me - in say a gun battle, is how much damage I can do in what amount of time. You may be able to get 15 rounds into someone, but if they can squeeze their index finger within 1 second of your first shot, you still got shot. My point is if you take into account you can fire the same amount of rounds off in the same period, I want the weapon that does the most damage the quickest... to minimize the possible danger to me - hopefully you understand what I'm saying now.

Last edited by CJ; 09-25-2009 at 08:13 PM.
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post #28 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 09:25 PM
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I agree with CJ's point completely. However I would suggest something completely different for the thread starter's application. .357 mag DA revolver.
1. Its his first gun and plans to keep in his desk/truck. Clip fed semi autos require loaded clip rotation unless you want FTF(failure to feed) in a year or so due to spring fatigue. Remembering to do this is difficult when its your only gun and in your desk all the time.
2. With a revolver you NEVER have to second guess yourself as to whether or not it has one in the hole or is cocked.
3. 158 gr to 180gr .357 mag has more energy than the 45 acp and nearly 2x the 9mm.
4. If you have a misfire, just pull the trigger again. A semi auto you will have to manually eject unless it has external hammer.

I would recommend a 4"+ barrel just for accuracy. Snub nose is just too short...

Just my .02
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post #29 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 09:38 PM
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You have to shoot a whole lot to weaken a magazine spring enough to cause a failure to feed. Also a .357mag may be too much for a beginer given you can use .38 special but those aren't any better than 9mm.
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post #30 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 09:45 PM
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Btw the average .357mag doesn't beat the .45+p stuff by much. You can get .357 mag stuff that is +P rated also but again a lil much for a beginer. Most semi auto guns absorb some of the recoil in the action to cycle, where as a revolver you get the full force plus muzzle climb. Although a revolver is less complicated to use in this case might not be the best choice.
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post #31 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ View Post
I thought we solved this question at the river when I shot the styrofoam block with my .45 and it didn't over penetrate, and with your 9mm and every round went through - whether it was +P, +P+, or standard power JHP or FMJ - I remember you shot them all.
All I shot at the block was a ra9ta 127 grain +p+. I dont recall shooting anything else at it.

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I was firing a standard federal JHP and none over penetrated - actually I believe my .45 was the only caliber that didn't - even the .22LR penetrated. I then fired a .45 Super load at it - 185 gr JHP 1,300 ft/s 694 ft·lb - obviously that over-penetrated, but the idea was I could load either round, whether it be standard charge .45 JHP off the shelf which will not over penetrate, or a extremely hot .45 super load and do both and substantially more - there is always that option.
Keep in mind that the ballistic propertys of the foam block are not that of a person of ballistic gel. had it been ballistic gel my 9mm would have only traveled around 12.3 inches. The foam defiantly allowed for more penetration.

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What I'm saying is I'm going to take the round that does more damage than the one that does less. It only takes enough motor skills to move your index finger to shoot me, so I take that into account, and want the absolute most damage possible per shot fired. Placement is great, but in the heat of a fight, you don't always have the peace of mind to aim a shot.
I agree with that, my argument for 9mm revolves around the fact that I have more chances to hit center of mass.



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Well see you contradict yourself here, before you were talking shot placement and it doesn't matter how powerful a round is if it's in the head (for instance) - but now you're adding up the total of ft lbs of energy in a full magazine. So, essentially now you're giving a supporting argument about pumping someone with 15 rounds.
No, I was merely saying that the 9mm I carry has more energy to deliver on target per mag change. I personally feel that if I need to shoot someone I am going to keep pulling the trigger till one of us stops moving.

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With adrenaline taken into account, I really don't think I'm going to fire all 8 of my rounds into the ground or into the sky. What my original point was focusing on, and which still applies to this argument - is that you can't fire your 9mm faster than I can fire my .45, me and you both squeeze the trigger at the same speed - if you can accept that, then what really matters to me - in say a gun battle, is how much damage I can do in what amount of time.
Point taken

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You may be able to get 15 rounds into someone, but if they can squeeze their index finger within 1 second of your first shot, you still got shot. My point is if you take into account you can fire the same amount of rounds off in the same period, I want the weapon that does the most damage the quickest... to minimize the possible danger to me - hopefully you understand what I'm saying now.
Understand.

Caliber choice is personal ... there is no best. It just irritates me when people start talking to someone buying there first gun and give them garbage info like "buy a .45 if you want to be a man" Only trying to get people to understand that 9mm is a viable and effective round if the bullet you carry is chosen with care.
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post #32 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 10:56 PM
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1. Its his first gun and plans to keep in his desk/truck. Clip fed semi autos require loaded clip rotation unless you want FTF(failure to feed) in a year or so due to spring fatigue. Remembering to do this is difficult when its your only gun and in your desk all the time.

Just my .02
This is wrong. A spring weakens when you load and unload mags, not when you leave it loaded.
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post #33 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-25-2009, 11:50 PM
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post #34 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 12:15 AM
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When you are hyped on adrenaline and the perp is too, it comes down to blood loss many times, so the .45 just makes more sense. A 9mm might be comparable, but it will just never equal the tissue destruction of a .45 HP.

Sometimes you win because the other guy bleeds out.

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post #35 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 12:16 AM
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After reading through this whole thing....only one thing is totally clear to me! Pat, CJ...you all need to just get it over with and fuck!

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post #36 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 12:27 AM
duh...duh....duh
 
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So, one thing I always find interesting is folks comparing stats all day long.

I shoot ya with a 9mm or a 45 you're going to have a fucked up day. Let me pop ya with a 22LR and see how great your day becomes. I refuse to partake in the 45 vs 9mm vs 40...etc arguments. I'm learning to like them all very much from a simple shooting point of view.

I strongly believe that practice, confidence and familiarization with the weapon is more important then its caliber.

My '03 Sold.
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post #37 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 12:40 AM
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That is pretty damn cool
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post #38 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by flashstang04 View Post
When you are hyped on adrenaline and the perp is too, it comes down to blood loss many times, so the .45 just makes more sense. A 9mm might be comparable, but it will just never equal the tissue destruction of a .45 HP.

Sometimes you win because the other guy bleeds out.
I can agree with that.
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post #39 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 12:44 AM
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I strongly believe that practice, confidence and familiarization with the weapon is more important then its caliber.
For broke ass people like me 9mm is the only way I can practice.
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post #40 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 12:46 AM
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For broke ass people like me 9mm is the only way I can practice.
heh...I'm getting close to going 22 myself.

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post #41 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 01:25 AM
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I don't care what you are shooting, it matters most what you can actually hit someone with. If you miss with a .45 and hit the bad guy with a 9mm, the 9mm is better. If you miss with a 9mm and hit with a freaking .22, the .22 is better.

I just remember a time when cops were going to 9mm from .38 and .357 and they were bouncing off the windshields of the mid-80's Camaros because of the steep angle. Cops mostly refer to 9mm as pee-shooters (like they do with .38's compared to .357's) and .45's as the "flying ashtray" because of the size difference.

I carry a city issued Sig .40 cal and shoot the same with it as I did with my S&W .357 as I did when they issued Beretta .40 cal's.

Buy and carry what you can hit a bad guy with under stress, not what fits in your hands, or looks pretty, is the cheapest, or is cool, or whatever.

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post #42 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
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I don't care what you are shooting, it matters most what you can actually hit someone with. If you miss with a .45 and hit the bad guy with a 9mm, the 9mm is better. If you miss with a 9mm and hit with a freaking .22, the .22 is better.

I just remember a time when cops were going to 9mm from .38 and .357 and they were bouncing off the windshields of the mid-80's Camaros because of the steep angle. Cops mostly refer to 9mm as pee-shooters (like they do with .38's compared to .357's) and .45's as the "flying ashtray" because of the size difference.

I carry a city issued Sig .40 cal and shoot the same with it as I did with my S&W .357 as I did when they issued Beretta .40 cal's.

Buy and carry what you can hit a bad guy with under stress, not what fits in your hands, or looks pretty, is the cheapest, or is cool, or whatever.
they issued beretta 96's?
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post #43 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 03:44 AM
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Snub nose is just too short...

Just my .02
That's not true. They're harder to aim right because of the short sight radius, but the guns can still be very accurate. It just takes practice.
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Also a .357mag may be too much for a beginer given you can use .38 special but those aren't any better than 9mm.
Word. I like the .357 Magnum idea because you can break yourself in with .38 Special, which is comparable to 9mm. Then you can move up to .38 Special +P (comparable to 9mm +P) when you get a little confidence/familiarity, and when you're ready to go, you can shoot .357 Magnum (superior to 9mm and 9mm +P) out of the same gun.


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post #44 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 03:52 AM
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Word. I like the .357 Magnum idea because you can break yourself in with .38 Special, which is comparable to 9mm. Then you can move up to .38 Special +P (comparable to 9mm +P) when you get a little confidence/familiarity, and when you're ready to go, you can shoot .357 Magnum (superior to 9mm and 9mm +P) out of the same gun.
Looks like .357 beats 9mm +p+ by a bit as well. .357 Sig seems kinda close to what the .357 mag can deliver though.
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post #45 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 03:57 AM
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On another forum I was on, I read a sure-fire solution to breaking people from flinching. Take a .357 Mag (or .44 Mag) and start off loading it with snapcaps. Bust off a dozen or so snapcaps, concentrating on a smooth trigger pull and the proper mechanics. Then have somebody else load the gun and mix some standard .38 Special (or .44 Special) in (so they don't know what they're going to be shooting). Shoot several cylinders full of mixed snapcaps and Specials until they don't flinch, then mix it up with snapcaps, Specials, and Magnums until they don't flinch when either the Magnums or Specials come out.

I guess you could do it with a semi, but it'd be a little tougher.


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post #46 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Pokulski-Blatz View Post
Looks like .357 beats 9mm +p+ by a bit as well. .357 Sig seems kinda close to what the .357 mag can deliver though.
.357 Sig 9x23mm and .38 Super are the only rounds that I know of that can float into the .357 mag world and still be chambered in a SA.Know I know that doesn't count the DE but I personally think those are too big and pointless.
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post #47 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino View Post
On another forum I was on, I read a sure-fire solution to breaking people from flinching. Take a .357 Mag (or .44 Mag) and start off loading it with snapcaps. Bust off a dozen or so snapcaps, concentrating on a smooth trigger pull and the proper mechanics. Then have somebody else load the gun and mix some standard .38 Special (or .44 Special) in (so they don't know what they're going to be shooting). Shoot several cylinders full of mixed snapcaps and Specials until they don't flinch, then mix it up with snapcaps, Specials, and Magnums until they don't flinch when either the Magnums or Specials come out.

I guess you could do it with a semi, but it'd be a little tougher.
Read an article about doing that same thing in a mag. Seems like a prettygood idea.
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post #48 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 10:16 AM
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.357 Sig 9x23mm and .38 Super are the only rounds that I know of that can float into the .357 mag world and still be chambered in a SA.Know I know that doesn't count the DE but I personally think those are too big and pointless.
Don't forget 10mm!


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post #49 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 10:19 AM
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I only trust .40 and above.

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post #50 of 66 (permalink) Old 09-26-2009, 10:24 AM
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Don't forget 10mm!
I was thinking of in the .355-.357 bullet caliber range. But 10mm is a great round but in the same like you can consider the .460 Rowland thats close to .44 mag power in a 1911 frame.
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