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post #1 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-03-2009, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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Question AR-15 Question

I have a Bushmaster AR-15 with carry handle, and iron sights. This winter, my department is allowing us to carry our own personal AR's in our patrol cars.

Problem, I need both optical and iron sights. I've already decided to stick with Bushmaster for the flat top upper, and EO Tech 512 for the optics. Problem, what do I do with the rear sight? I lose it when I go with the flat top. Also, if I add a flip up rear sight, will I also need to change the front sight?

Opinions?

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post #2 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-03-2009, 06:50 PM
dee
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Aftermarket flipup sights try looking at Midwayusa.com or brownells.com
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post #3 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-03-2009, 07:02 PM
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midwayusa or jsgsales or model1sales should have an aftermarket pop up. Check Cheaper than dirt too. they ususally have stuff like that.
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post #4 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-03-2009, 08:02 PM Thread Starter
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Guys be more specific. Do I need to replace both sights?

Thanks
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post #5 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-03-2009, 08:18 PM
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You shouldn't have to its just a fold down sight that works the same as the original but not mounted on the carry handle. It should mount behind the optical sight and can be left up so both can be used in case of sight failure.
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post #6 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-03-2009, 08:24 PM
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It depends one the front site post. Is yours marked with a F stamped on it? If i remember correctly bushmasters are shorter than most. So you might have to change just the post to match a set of back up iron sights. It depends on what you want. Do you want the irons to be there all the time? If so look for a rock river eotech dominator 2 mount. I prefer not to have the irons In the way of the optic. I have the dominator 2 mount and its a solid peice, but i dont have it on the rifle. If you want togo cheap some places carry a2 handles and you can chop it down. Or some places sell them already modded for 29ish.

Also most back up iron sights have the i forget what its called but the battle sight hole as first. Backwards to normal a2sights.

What you might call solitude is something i look forward to.
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post #7 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
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Good posts. I'll check my front sight later to see if it has the f stamp on it. As for iron sights, I absolutley have to have them on the rifle in order for it to pass inspection. I'll slap the eo tech on there and see if the flip up rear sight will work. What do you guys think about a vertical grip? That may be something I'd consider down the road.
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post #8 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 09:34 AM
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I have an ARMS 40 with the Aimpoint M2 and a stock front sight.
Has a perfect co-witness.


More choices here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=206233

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post #9 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ALLAN View Post
I have an ARMS 40 with the Aimpoint M2 and a stock front sight.
Has a perfect co-witness.


More choices here:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=206233
Thanks!!
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post #10 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 12:41 PM
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Thanks!!
In all reality, how often do you have to pull out your AR while on duty? Also just curious why they are allowing it in the winter.
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post #11 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
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In all reality, how often do you have to pull out your AR while on duty? Also just curious why they are allowing it in the winter.
Hopefully I'll never have to remove it from the car. There's nothing really special to winter other than that's when the new rifle policy goes into effect. But it's like insurance, it's better to have it and not need it, than not have it and need it.
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post #12 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 08:23 PM
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Rear sights..... meh. I put fresh batteries in my Eotech before every carbine match. That's maybe once every 3-4 months.

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post #13 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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What do you think about this sight?

http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/product...=1392&cat=1717


...Or the Bushmaster B.M.A.S. Clamp-on Rear Flip-Up Sight



...OOOOR
the A.R.M.S.® #40Std. A2™ Flip Up Rear Sight
http://armsmount.bizatomic.net/catal...124&item_id=20

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post #14 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-04-2009, 09:40 PM
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I too have the Arms 40 on a bushmaster with the fixed front and I also have it on another AR with a fixed front sights with no problems. It runs a perfect co-witness with my Eotech 552.
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post #15 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-05-2009, 12:22 AM
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Rear sights..... meh. I put fresh batteries in my Eotech before every carbine match. That's maybe once every 3-4 months.
My Aimpoint is still on the original battery from '04...lol
Even with being left on in the safe for a week.

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post #16 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-05-2009, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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I met a woman who runs a gun store off of 121 in Coppell while a work a while back. I just made contact with her, and am going to visit the store tomorrow. She says she has some rear flip ups cheaper than those that I posted. I'm not so sure I'm comfortable with that. I was leaning towards the ARMS A2.
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post #17 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-05-2009, 03:45 PM
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Why do you "need" optics?
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post #18 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-05-2009, 05:42 PM
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Why do you "need" optics?
this is 2009, everyone needs a computer somewhere.
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post #19 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-05-2009, 05:47 PM
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this is 2009, everyone needs a computer somewhere.
My optics never fail, never have a glitch, never need batteries, and never have recalls.
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post #20 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-05-2009, 05:53 PM
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My optics never fail, never have a glitch, never need batteries, and never have recalls.
Well that just doesn't work with this thread Matt, iron sights are so 80's.
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post #21 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-05-2009, 07:03 PM
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Well that just doesn't work with this thread Matt, iron sights are so 80's.
Only pussies need optics.


Can't you see I'm trying to start shit?
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post #22 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-05-2009, 09:47 PM
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I'm pretty sure you can get mounts to put optics on A2 carry handles which allow the use of the iron sights you already have. I've seen them, but never used one.

There are probably advantages to a flat top upper with optics and flip up sights if you want to spend more money though.

I personally wouldn't use anything but iron sights on my own AR. I don't plan on shooting anything with it out beyond 200 yards. If you can't do that with iron sights, get an eye exam with your optics money.

Now my long range rifle will have optics pretty soon. I just got finished making the requisite modifications so I can put optics on it, which incidentally also allow the use of the iron sights. This rifle will be the 400-500 yard reach out and touch something variety.

I personally can't see using an AR at a distance that would require optics though.
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post #23 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-06-2009, 12:54 AM
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Only pussies need optics.


Can't you see I'm trying to start shit?

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post #24 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-06-2009, 06:11 AM
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That pussy needs a trim
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post #25 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-06-2009, 10:40 AM Thread Starter
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Why do you "need" optics?
No, I don't need them, just would be nice to have it. And stop trying to start shit! lol
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post #26 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-06-2009, 11:12 AM
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No, I don't need them, just would be nice to have it. And stop trying to start shit! lol
I've found that optics are nice, but not worth the extra coin for what we do. Also, you won't be able to fit any optic equipped rifle in the patrol rack.

Most carbine shootings are under 50 yards, and you don't need optics for that.

Also you have to consider the line of sight of any optics you put on that rifle is going to be about 5 inches over the line of sight for the barrel. In high stress situations you might shoot your barricade because you aren't thinking about that factor.

My opinion on carbines is much like my opinion on learning to drive. You need to learn iron sights on a carbine like you need to learn to drive a standard transmission. You need the basics before going for the bells and whistles because sometimes the bells and whistles don't work and you have to revert back to the basics.
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post #27 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-06-2009, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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I've found that optics are nice, but not worth the extra coin for what we do. Also, you won't be able to fit any optic equipped rifle in the patrol rack.

Most carbine shootings are under 50 yards, and you don't need optics for that.

Also you have to consider the line of sight of any optics you put on that rifle is going to be about 5 inches over the line of sight for the barrel. In high stress situations you might shoot your barricade because you aren't thinking about that factor.

My opinion on carbines is much like my opinion on learning to drive. You need to learn iron sights on a carbine like you need to learn to drive a standard transmission. You need the basics before going for the bells and whistles because sometimes the bells and whistles don't work and you have to revert back to the basics.

Good post.

So what do you think about going to the flat top upper with the flip up sights first? I was going to do that regardless, since I have to save up a few to buy the optics.
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post #28 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-06-2009, 11:23 AM
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Good post.

So what do you think about going to the flat top upper with the flip up sights first? I was going to do that regardless, since I have to save up a few to buy the optics.
A good flip up set would be fine. Just make sure you buy something that will work with whatever optics you choose (or what is authorized) so you don't have to buy a set twice.

Personally, I just use a Rock River flat top with a carry handle (pretty much just what you have). I don't have to worry about battery life, being gentle, or heaven forbid, it breaking. We are only allowed Aimpoint or EoTech. We also have to qualify with open sights before qualifying with optics.
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post #29 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-06-2009, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
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A good flip up set would be fine. Just make sure you buy something that will work with whatever optics you choose (or what is authorized) so you don't have to buy a set twice.

Personally, I just use a Rock River flat top with a carry handle (pretty much just what you have). I don't have to worry about battery life, being gentle, or heaven forbid, it breaking. We are only allowed Aimpoint or EoTech. We also have to qualify with open sights before qualifying with optics.

Yeah we are pretty much limited to Aimpoint or Eotech. We also have to qualify with both sets of optics. I would be PISSED if I broke the EoTech..
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post #30 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-06-2009, 12:52 PM
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No matter what side of the reliability coin you are on, sight picture acquisition is so much faster with an optic even if you never shot iron sights. You can look at the scores at our carbine matches. Optics rule over iron sights. Plain and simple. The numbers speak for themselves.

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post #31 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-06-2009, 04:09 PM
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No matter what side of the reliability coin you are on, sight picture acquisition is so much faster with an optic even if you never shot iron sights. You can look at the scores at our carbine matches. Optics rule over iron sights. Plain and simple. The numbers speak for themselves.
I guess I'm the oddball. I have used open sights since I qualified expert in the Marines back in 1987. I've used open sights since then and I'm just more comfortable with them. Not that I haven't shot with them, but I'm just more comfortable acquiring a fast sight picture at 50 yards and below with open sights.
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post #32 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-06-2009, 04:13 PM
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When you have machine guns who the fuck needs any sort of sight?

Just fucking point, click, and wave wildly.
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post #33 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-06-2009, 04:32 PM
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When you have machine guns who the fuck needs any sort of sight?

Just fucking point, click, and wave wildly.
I don't know of a patrol carbine in existance (for a major department) that has the selector that goes the extra mile.

I'd love the old M16A1 that I was issued in Gitmo, but I'm sure the Marines have long ago since destroyed that batch.
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post #34 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-07-2009, 12:50 AM
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When you have machine guns who the fuck needs any sort of sight?

Just fucking point, click, and wave wildly.
You've watched too many movies if you believe this. This is just a great way to get yourself shot by someone who knows how to use sights.
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post #35 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-07-2009, 05:56 AM
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I don't know of a patrol carbine in existance (for a major department) that has the selector that goes the extra mile.

I'd love the old M16A1 that I was issued in Gitmo, but I'm sure the Marines have long ago since destroyed that batch.
I know of 2...and they are in the DFW area!! I think they are just semi and burst though...

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post #36 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-07-2009, 06:29 AM
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You've watched too many movies if you believe this. This is just a great way to get yourself shot by someone who knows how to use sights.
LMAO you are not familiar with David are you?

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post #37 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-07-2009, 06:44 AM
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I know of 2...and they are in the DFW area!! I think they are just semi and burst though...
Our SWAT has full auto AR15s and MP5s, but we lowly street patrollers can't be trusted with full auto
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post #38 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-07-2009, 07:26 AM
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That pussy needs a trim
No with a pussy like that you don't shoot from behind a barricade...................................just keeping the shit stirred

My pops is a new member to the BRD just recently purchased a S&W M&P15T, he wanted some optics for 100yrd paper punching. I talked him into the Leupold Mark 4 CQ/T. Range report to follow.
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post #39 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-07-2009, 09:06 AM
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You've watched too many movies if you believe this. This is just a great way to get yourself shot by someone who knows how to use sights.
Whatever, they'd already be dead. Many bullets>greater than sights.
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post #40 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-07-2009, 11:39 AM
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Whatever, they'd already be dead. Many bullets>greater than sights.
Post up a pic of you "spraying and praying" with one of your toys
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post #41 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-07-2009, 05:21 PM
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Post up a pic of you "spraying and praying" with one of your toys
I don't want to see a pic of David doing ANY sort of spraying!
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post #42 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 11:00 PM
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Whatever, they'd already be dead. Many bullets>greater than sights.
If you totally ascribe to this theory, than Russia was completely overrun by the Germans in WWII who had all the machine guns and vastly greater sum of automatic weapons...

History shows your theory to be false.

And the greater the range, the more spraying and praying decreases its effectiveness. And besides if you are close enough to spray and pray, a shotgun works even better.

You know what weapon turned the tide of WWI? It wasn't the machinegun the airplane, or the tank. It was the lowly pump shotgun. The original Geneva Conventions tried to ban pump shotguns after the Americans brought them over and pretty much ran rampant in trenches that had been near stationary for years.

I wish I could get a guarantee that if I ever was getting shot at it would be by someone with your strategy. I'd feel a lot better about my odds.
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post #43 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 11:02 PM
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LMAO you are not familiar with David are you?
Nope, but I'm getting a sense of the guy, and I'm not overly impressed.

I have met about a dozen guys off this board via the classifieds though, but David is not one of them.

I probably have spent $2000+ in the DFWstangs.net classifieds in the past year.
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post #44 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 11:07 PM
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If you totally ascribe to this theory, than Russia was completely overrun by the Germans in WWII who had all the machine guns and vastly greater sum of automatic weapons...

History shows your theory to be false.

And the greater the range, the more spraying and praying decreases its effectiveness. And besides if you are close enough to spray and pray, a shotgun works even better.

You know what weapon turned the tide of WWI? It wasn't the machinegun the airplane, or the tank. It was the lowly pump shotgun. The original Geneva Conventions tried to ban pump shotguns after the Americans brought them over and pretty much ran rampant in trenches that had been near stationary for years.

I wish I could get a guarantee that if I ever was getting shot at it would be by someone with your strategy. I'd feel a lot better about my odds.
Only because victors right the history books.

The statistics are flawed. Seriously, Bill Nye is my dad. Im never wrong.
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post #45 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 11:48 PM
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Would much rather have optics in combat...its hell when you have multiple targets and they all have weapons as well!
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post #46 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyS View Post
If you totally ascribe to this theory, than Russia was completely overrun by the Germans in WWII who had all the machine guns and vastly greater sum of automatic weapons...

History shows your theory to be false.

And the greater the range, the more spraying and praying decreases its effectiveness. And besides if you are close enough to spray and pray, a shotgun works even better.

You know what weapon turned the tide of WWI? It wasn't the machinegun the airplane, or the tank. It was the lowly pump shotgun. The original Geneva Conventions tried to ban pump shotguns after the Americans brought them over and pretty much ran rampant in trenches that had been near stationary for years.

I wish I could get a guarantee that if I ever was getting shot at it would be by someone with your strategy. I'd feel a lot better about my odds.

I agree...speaking from experience.
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post #47 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-09-2009, 01:56 PM
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Would much rather have optics in combat...its hell when you have multiple targets and they all have weapons as well!
We are talking patrol, not combat. I'd rather have optics in combat as well, since the chances of taking a shot at more than 50 yards are pretty great.

Most LEO applications only have one adversary. Stuff like the Hollywood bank shootout is rare.
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post #48 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-09-2009, 02:32 PM
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We are talking patrol, not combat. I'd rather have optics in combat as well, since the chances of taking a shot at more than 50 yards are pretty great.

Most LEO applications only have one adversary. Stuff like the Hollywood bank shootout is rare.

You guys should use MP-5s.
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post #49 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-09-2009, 03:47 PM
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You guys should use MP-5s.
I think SWAT has the MP5 in .40 cal.

Personally, I like the little .223.
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post #50 of 61 (permalink) Old 08-09-2009, 06:33 PM
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My M4 saved my ass a few times...
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