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post #1 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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Federal agents hunt for guns house to house

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6505651.html

Quote:
Federal agents hunt for guns, one house at a time
By DANE SCHILLER Copyright 2009 Houston Chronicle
June 30, 2009, 9:36PM


In front of a run-down shack in north Houston, federal agents step from a government sedan into 102-degree heat and face a critical question: How can the woman living here buy four high-end handguns in one day?

The house is worth $35,000. A screen dangles by a wall-unit air conditioner. Porch swing slats are smashed, the smattering of grass is flattened by cars and burned yellow by sun.

“I’ll do the talking on this one,” agent Tim Sloan, of South Carolina, told partner Brian Tumiel, of New York.

Success on the front lines of a government blitz on gunrunners supplying Mexican drug cartels with Houston weaponry hinges on logging heavy miles and knocking on countless doors. Dozens of agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives — sent here from around the country — are needed to follow what ATF acting director Kenneth Melson described as a “massive number of investigative leads.”

All told, Mexican officials in 2008 asked federal agents to trace the origins of more than 7,500 firearms recovered at crime scenes in Mexico. Most of them were traced back to Texas, California and Arizona.

Among other things, the agents are combing neighborhoods and asking people about suspicious purchases as well as seeking explanations as to how their guns ended up used in murders, kidnappings and other crimes in Mexico.

“Ever turning up the heat on cartels, our law enforcement and military partners in the government of Mexico have been working more closely with the ATF by sharing information and intelligence,” Melson said Tuesday during a firearms-trafficking summit in New Mexico.
Firearms dealers visited

The ATF recently dispatched 100 veteran agents to its Houston division, which reaches to the border.

The mission is especially challenging because, officials say, that while Houston is the number one point of origin for weapons traced back to the United States from Mexico, the government can’t compile databases on gun owners under federal law.

Agents instead review firearms dealers’ records in person.

People who are legally in the United States and have clean criminal records, but are facing economic problems are often recruited by traffickers to buy weapons on their behalf in order to shield themselves from scrutiny.

Knocks at the door of the shack that looked to be the definition of hard times went unanswered.

“I am out of here,” Sloan said a few moments later, as a pit bull lazily sauntered from the back yard. “I don’t like pit bulls walking up behind me.”
Best information source

On second thought, Sloan switched to Spanish and interviewed a neighbor.

The neighbor said the woman left a month ago after a fight with her husband or boyfriend, who still lived there with what she called “other degenerates.”

“An angry ex-girlfriend or wife is the best person in the world, the greatest source of information,” Sloan said.

The night before, the duo were in a stakeout where they watched a weapons sale.

They also combined efforts with the Drug Enforcement Administration for an aircraft to stealthily follow traffickers to the border.

On this day, agents weren’t wearing raid jackets or combat boots and weren’t armed with warrants.

Guns were hidden under civilian shirts.

Another tip took agents on a 30-minute drive from the shack to a sprawling home with a pool in the back and an American flag out front.

It turned out two handguns, of a type drug gangsters prefer, were bought by a pastor for target practice.

Some stories, they say, are hard to believe.

The lamest so far came from a police officer: He said he bought a few military-style rifles, left them in his car and — on the same night — forgot to lock a door. He couldn’t explain why he didn’t file a police report or why he visited Mexico the day after the alleged theft.

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post #2 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 10:17 AM
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"two handguns, of a type drug gangsters prefer,"

Now they're profiling handguns. Seriously big brother is going to keep pushing until they can start a gun registration....whats the world coming to?

d f w m u s t a n g s . n e t d f w m u s t a n g s . n e t
d f w m u s t a n g s . n e t d f w m u s t a n g s . n e t
d f w m u s t a n g s . n e t d f w m u s t a n g s . n e t
d f w m u s t a n g s . n e t d f w m u s t a n g s . n e t
d f w m u s t a n g s . n e t d f w m u s t a n g s . n e t

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post #3 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 10:24 AM
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someone needs to tell him their called "window unit" not "wall unit" air conditioners...

I have mixed feelings about it, I think its good their going after the bad guys. What scares me is the individual agents discretion and/or agenda...

Example being, "It turned out two handguns, of a type drug gangsters prefer, were bought by a pastor for target practice." Are those the words of the author or were they the words of the Agent?

Please describe what kind of handguns drug gansters prefer? The ones that go boom when you pull the trigger? The ones that fire multiple rounds when the trigger is pulled... Please describe...
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post #4 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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someone needs to tell him their called "window unit" not "wall unit" air conditioners...

I have mixed feelings about it, I think its good their going after the bad guys. What scares me is the individual agents discretion and/or agenda...

Example being, "It turned out two handguns, of a type drug gangsters prefer, were bought by a pastor for target practice." Are those the words of the author or were they the words of the Agent?

Please describe what kind of handguns drug gansters prefer? The ones that go boom when you pull the trigger? The ones that fire multiple rounds when the trigger is pulled... Please describe...
I believe gangsters prefer gold plated deagles and pearl gripped chrome 1911's.
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post #5 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by GT Dan View Post
someone needs to tell him their called "window unit" not "wall unit" air conditioners...

I have mixed feelings about it, I think its good their going after the bad guys. What scares me is the individual agents discretion and/or agenda...

Example being, "It turned out two handguns, of a type drug gangsters prefer, were bought by a pastor for target practice." Are those the words of the author or were they the words of the Agent?

Please describe what kind of handguns drug gansters prefer? The ones that go boom when you pull the trigger? The ones that fire multiple rounds when the trigger is pulled... Please describe...
I'm guessing cheap, small caliber guns. . . you know, the kind that someone with real taste would only buy for target practice.

I like to see the level of dedication, to the point of tracking someone you KNOW is armed and dangerous, and not even having body armor while going after them, but yea, the fact that it's practically left up to the agent to form his opinion on the situation can be a bit scary.

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post #6 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 10:36 AM
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I believe gangsters prefer gold plated deagles and pearl gripped chrome 1911's.

Castor Troy's preference.


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post #7 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 10:42 AM
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I believe gangsters prefer gold plated deagles and pearl gripped chrome 1911's.
I thought it was a Porcelain Glock 7?
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post #8 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 10:57 AM
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A completely legal firearm purchase and you still get a visit from the feds. Gotta love it.

I understand the concept behind this but I disagree with it on about ten different levels - number one being that I'm not a criminal and number two being that I haven't broken any laws.

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post #9 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 11:21 AM
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I enjoyed reading the comments on that story earlier today. They range from sane to insane with the usual mixAmazing how many people decided they were 'illegal' purchases, that the feds have every right, and that we deserve none.
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post #10 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 11:42 AM
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Just like anything else, the premise behind the act is good, but it turns into an abortion at the end.
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post #11 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 12:17 PM Thread Starter
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Just like anything else, the premise behind the act is good, but it turns into an abortion at the end.
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post #12 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 12:38 PM
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just another way to move in on us.problem would be fixed at the border if they really where after fixing the problem.dont kid yourself,the goverment is moving in on us.they won't stop until we go to war with them.its just that simple.

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post #13 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 12:43 PM
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just another way to move in on us.problem would be fixed at the border if they really where after fixing the problem.dont kid yourself,the goverment is moving in on us.they won't stop until we go to war with them.its just that simple.
unfortunately, I agree with you more and more every day...
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post #14 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 01:07 PM
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just another way to move in on us.problem would be fixed at the border if they really where after fixing the problem.dont kid yourself,the goverment is moving in on us.they won't stop until we go to war with them.its just that simple.
Ditto.
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post #15 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 03:19 PM
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Anyone on here old enough to remember the term "Yellow Journalism"? This crap is the definition of that term. Just enough truth to make it seem real and enough spectacular fantasy to entice gullible people to action.
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post #16 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone on here old enough to remember the term "Yellow Journalism"? This crap is the definition of that term. Just enough truth to make it seem real and enough spectacular fantasy to entice gullible people to action.
Are you saying he is attempting to incite right wing paranoia?
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post #17 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 03:46 PM
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Are you saying he is attempting to incite right wing paranoia?
now that would actually make sense with what i see going on

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post #18 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 03:47 PM
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Ruby Ridge, what?

Give me a dollar.
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post #19 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 03:53 PM
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problem would be fixed at the border if they really where after fixing the problem.
Nobody listens to my minefield idea!

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post #20 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 03:56 PM
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Nobody listens to my minefield idea!
Motion Tracking Turrets!

Deport illegals with only one leg left attached!

The answers are there, people just don't have the balls to do it.

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post #21 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 04:03 PM
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You have to register your vehicle, what's the big deal about registering your gun(s)?

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post #22 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 04:13 PM
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Castor Troy's preference.
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post #23 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 04:16 PM
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You have to register your vehicle, what's the big deal about registering your gun(s)?
To start with, ownership of vehicles isn't guaranteed by an amendment to the United States Constitution. The words "shall not be infringed" come into play. Forced registration is an infringement.

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post #24 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 04:25 PM
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...

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Originally Posted by fast83 View Post
just another way to move in on us.problem would be fixed at the border if they really where after fixing the problem.dont kid yourself,the goverment is moving in on us.they won't stop until we go to war with them.its just that simple.
I agree to. They are looking for a good excuse to take more of our rights away. If they put that much effort into inspecting the traffic going across the border, they would catch a lot more of the guns going out.
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post #25 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 04:47 PM
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You have to register your vehicle, what's the big deal about registering your gun(s)?

Because then all you need is the right agenda put in place and you have records in place for a confiscation program. Baby steps is what it will take to get rid of the second amendment and I'll be against every single step. Besides, what will registration do? Absolutely nothing.

And I wouldn't talk to the feds besides asking them what the hell they think they are going to accomplish by knocking on my door. If Mexico wants to stop the flow of guns from the US then maybe they should close their border! If the US wants to stop the flow of guns then maybe they should have sent these 100 agents to the border rather than having them walk around Houston asking honest people dumb questions that they don't have to answer.

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post #26 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 06:26 PM
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You have to register your vehicle, what's the big deal about registering your gun(s)?

Because I don't drive my fucking guns to work.
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post #27 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 09:13 PM Thread Starter
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Because I don't drive my fucking guns to work.
pussy.


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post #28 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 09:47 PM
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The war on drugs has been lost for a long time. It's frankly time to legalize it all, and tax the shit out of everything.

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post #29 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 11:44 PM
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Because I don't drive my fucking guns to work.

I hope to god that you at least take one with you to work.
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post #30 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 12:56 AM
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F those commie bastards. Obama and his boys ought to go back to Mother Russia and worship Karl Marx over there. I'm happy with freedom the Bill of Rights.

Heck I served my country to stave off communism. Now the collective idiocy of this country has voted the socialist bastards into office.

It's gonna take a lot of coordination and education to get them out of office for good and repeal a bunch of crap starting with the 16th amendment. That amendment all by itself set the tone for the federal government to grow into the everygrowing beast that it is today.

You think I'm nuts.

Get George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin and any of our countries founders you wish..... put them all in a room and have them fill out a form 1040. I know what they would do, because they already did it once.

The 2nd amendment exists to protect citizens from overly intrusive government. Once it's gone, we'll have lost our freedom completely. There is a reason it is #2, and not #3 or #27. It is almost as important as freedom of speech, religion, etc.... as matter of fact it is how the citizens are able to guarantee #1 for themselves.

Our founding fathers were smarter than any of the clowns running things now by a lot. They would as a collective find the stupidity of the average person to be the downfall of our once much greater country.

It's still the best country on earth, but our current government sure is working hard to ensure out downfall.
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post #31 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 01:17 AM
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I am trying to figure out why asking people who are buying guns like the story describes is a problem. The old lady who supposedly bought 4 guns and the cop who bought 2 rifles, then went to Mexico and claimed they were stolen the day before he went to Mexico would be red flags to any person about the possibility for criminal activity IMO.

The pastor who says he bought the guns had a reasonable explanantion and was not infringed upon in any way I can think of.

BTW, I am all about slippery slope and when it gets to the point that EVERY gun purchase has a follow-up visit from the Feds or they just randomly visit with no common sense I am on board. I beleive it is a right to own guns and do not think a gun registry is tolerable.

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post #32 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 12:18 PM
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im still wondering why we allow a goverment to exist that does not work for the better of its people.

this is all bullshit.politicians need to visited at home by the people.we can turn this country around,it just takes alot of people with nuts.

something americans still have but rarely use.

RON PAUL '08
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post #33 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 12:40 PM
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im still wondering why we allow a goverment to exist that does not work for the better of its people.

this is all bullshit.politicians need to visited at home by the people.we can turn this country around,it just takes alot of people with nuts.

something americans still have but rarely use.
Why not lead a movement?

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post #34 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 01:19 PM
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I emailed the author and asked what the preferred drug gangsters guns were and this is his response...

Quote:
Hello -

On the ATF's Web site, as well as in pamphlets agents give to gun dealers, they list weapons of choice for the cartels. There are several. As part of their work, the ATF kept some details private - perhaps to safeguard some people's privacy - and I was not told what specific guns the pastor purchased. They spoke with him privately.

Dane
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post #35 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 01:32 PM
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Why not lead a movement?
i know,if i could count on people to be a part of it(and could still get all my work done) i think id start something.not sure people are pissed enough yet.

RON PAUL '08
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post #36 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 01:33 PM
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I emailed the author and asked what the preferred drug gangsters guns were and this is his response...
what a brain dead douchebag this reporter is.email him back and tell him to get the facts before wrighting this shit.

RON PAUL '08
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post #37 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 01:55 PM
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I am trying to figure out why asking people who are buying guns like the story describes is a problem.
It wouldn't be a problem if people trusted the federal government.
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post #38 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 02:00 PM
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It wouldn't be a problem if people trusted the federal government.
Touche'.

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post #39 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 04:34 PM
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You have to register your vehicle, what's the big deal about registering your gun(s)?
Driving is a priviledge, while owning a firearm is a right. Government can revoke and legislate privleges, while they shouldn't be able to do anything about rights.
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post #40 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 05:13 PM
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Driving is a priviledge, while owning a firearm is a right. Government can revoke and legislate privleges, while they shouldn't be able to do anything about rights.
Exactly right!

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post #41 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 05:25 PM
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We are endowed by our creator, with certain inalienable rights. Among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." I think I heard that somewhere. Then there are those pesky rights in the Bill of Rights. And I believe that the 2nd one says "The right of the people to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed."

Registration is infringing.
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post #42 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 06:10 PM
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We are endowed by our creator, with certain inalienable rights. Among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
That's from the Declaration of Independence. Also, it's a blowjob of a line, as the original by Thomas Paine is, "life, liberty, and protection of personal property." We're learning more and more how unimportant that last difference is to our government.

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post #43 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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That's from the Declaration of Independence. Also, it's a blowjob of a line, as the original by Thomas Paine is, "life, liberty, and protection of personal property." We're learning more and more how unimportant that last difference is to our government.
common sense.
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post #44 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-02-2009, 08:59 PM
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Protecting my personal property DOES bring me happiness.

I honestly believe that warrants should have no power on privately owned property. They want you? They can get you while you're out driving. But that's just me and yes. It can be horribly exploited.
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post #45 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-03-2009, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by forever_frost View Post
Protecting my personal property DOES bring me happiness.

I honestly believe that warrants should have no power on privately owned property. They want you? They can get you while you're out driving. But that's just me and yes. It can be horribly exploited.
As long as you acknowledge that last line.

If our police/criminal system can stay somewhat in check, I have no issues with warrants. I'd MUCH rather the shootout be at someone's household as opposed to the mall. All that would do is jack up the price of law enforcement with lives and dollars.

Although, I understand what you're saying too. Be nice if we all still lived on 50+ acre plots, that would be a lot easier to do.

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post #46 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-03-2009, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forever_frost View Post
Protecting my personal property DOES bring me happiness.

I honestly believe that warrants should have no power on privately owned property. They want you? They can get you while you're out driving. But that's just me and yes. It can be horribly exploited.
Fair enough, but that's not a universal human condition. They made the last part vague on purpose.

Give me a dollar.
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post #47 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-03-2009, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forever_frost View Post
Protecting my personal property DOES bring me happiness.

I honestly believe that warrants should have no power on privately owned property. They want you? They can get you while you're out driving. But that's just me and yes. It can be horribly exploited.

I'm gonna have to disagree with the warrants being valid only on public property.

First off, you didn't specify what type of warrant should not have power on private property. Arrest warrant or search warrant?

Who the hell is going to hide contraband on public property? No one.
Who is going to only commit offenses like rape, sexual assault of a child, etc, on public property? Not as many as are going to do it in the privacy of a private property.
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post #48 of 48 (permalink) Old 07-03-2009, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03trubluGT View Post
I'm gonna have to disagree with the warrants being valid only on public property.

First off, you didn't specify what type of warrant should not have power on private property. Arrest warrant or search warrant?

Who the hell is going to hide contraband on public property? No one.
Who is going to only commit offenses like rape, sexual assault of a child, etc, on public property? Not as many as are going to do it in the privacy of a private property.
I agree with you. I bet the overwhelming majority of all crimes happen on private property.

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If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
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