So what exactly is the current law...? - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
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So what exactly is the current law...?

...in regards to carrying a gun in your vehicle without a CHL? Can it be loaded and within arm's reach? Do you have to be travelling through a certain amount of counties?

If you are stopped, is it best to let the officer know that you have a loaded gun in the glove compartment, under the seat, in the console, etc, or do you just keep your mouth shut about it?
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post #2 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jluv
If you are stopped, is it best to let the officer know that you have a loaded gun in the glove compartment, under the seat, in the console, etc, or do you just keep your mouth shut about it?
I like telling them about the gun and then throwing that they will never take me alive. It keeps them on their toes.

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post #3 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 11:29 AM
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I thought the gun couldn't be loaded and the ammo has to be in another compartment (ie. gun in trunk, ammo in glovebox) if you don't have a CHL?

I really don't know shit, where the hell are the gun guys?
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post #4 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 11:33 AM
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Not currently engaging in breaking any law except traffic
Must be concealed....loaded doesnt matter.
Not a felon

And if I was you I would let them know you have it as a courtesy cause if I see it on my own your gettin a glock in your face.....
post #5 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houstondallas
Not a current known gang member
Not currently engaging in breaking any law except traffic
Must be concealed....loaded doesnt matter.
Not a felon

And if I was you I would let them know you have it as a courtesy cause if I see it on my own your gettin a glock in your face.....
Cool. Thanks for the info.
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post #6 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houstondallas
Not a current known gang member
Not currently engaging in breaking any law except traffic
Must be concealed....loaded doesnt matter.
Not a felon

And if I was you I would let them know you have it as a courtesy cause if I see it on my own your gettin a glock in your face.....
So just because someone has a gun in the car you are going to pull yours on them? Even if they are courteous and make no motion in that direction?

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post #7 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow06
So just because someone has a gun in the car you are going to pull yours on them? Even if they are courteous and make no motion in that direction?
Sounds about right.

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post #8 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by slow06
So just because someone has a gun in the car you are going to pull yours on them? Even if they are courteous and make no motion in that direction?

If i am on a traffic stop and they are being fine....and reach in the glove box for like insurance or somethign and I see a gun yes im drawing down....

My thought is I dont know them from anyone.....it is there car they know where there gun is and if they have one....

Most of the officers who get shot on traffic stops said the stop was going fine until it happened. I wouldnt think if someone was gonna shoot an officer they would make it look like that was their plan.
post #9 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houstondallas
If i am on a traffic stop and they are being fine....and reach in the glove box for like insurance or somethign and I see a gun yes im drawing down....

My thought is I dont know them from anyone.....it is there car they know where there gun is and if they have one....

Most of the officers who get shot on traffic stops said the stop was going fine until it happened. I wouldnt think if someone was gonna shoot an officer they would make it look like that was their plan.
Makes total sense to me.
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post #10 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 12:30 PM
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post #11 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 12:31 PM
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When I get stopped I don't say a word about it and they never ask.

Then again I'm not a suspicious looking person. And I drive a freaking farm truck with NRA and TSRA stickers on the back window, which if I was a cop would almost certainly make me think there was a firearm or three inside...
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post #12 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 12:39 PM
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post #13 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 12:41 PM
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anyone know the law number thing? my dad wants to look it up on his own
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post #14 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houstondallas
If i am on a traffic stop and they are being fine....and reach in the glove box for like insurance or somethign and I see a gun yes im drawing down....

My thought is I dont know them from anyone.....it is there car they know where there gun is and if they have one....

Most of the officers who get shot on traffic stops said the stop was going fine until it happened. I wouldnt think if someone was gonna shoot an officer they would make it look like that was their plan.
True. If I got pulled over I sure as hell wouldn't be reaching anywhere near my gun unless the officer knew about it.

On a side not, I think it is retarded that someone would shoot a police officer over a speeding ticket...

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post #15 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow06
On a side not, I think it is retarded that someone would shoot a police officer over a speeding ticket...
If the person who got pulled over is a felon who is wanted and will certainly be arrested and do hard time should the officer run his info...

Ya just never know.

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post #16 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 12:58 PM
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I thought someone posted that Dallas cops are still gonna arrest / prosecute for this even though the law was passed?
Something like the DA wanted it that way. Sounds like some vigilante bullshit to me.
But I would be on the lookout if I was yall.
Just because it's legal, doesn't mean the officer isn't instructed to arrest you and charge you with unlawful carrying of a firearm.
There is no way I would tell them, almost under any circumstance!

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post #17 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow06
On a side not, I think it is retarded that someone would shoot a police officer over a speeding ticket...

Going out on a limb here, but I would think someone that would shoot a cop is already wanted or knows they are about to be arrested.

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post #18 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 01:09 PM
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That could happen. You'd be within your rights to have it and could get the charge dismissed in court, but you're still out your time and trouble to do so.


<------ has CHL, not an issue


Quote:
Originally Posted by futant
I thought someone posted that Dallas cops are still gonna arrest / prosecute for this even though the law was passed?
Something like the DA wanted it that way. Sounds like some vigilante bullshit to me.
But I would be on the lookout if I was yall.
Just because it's legal, doesn't mean the officer isn't instructed to arrest you and charge you with unlawful carrying of a firearm.
There is no way I would tell them, almost under any circumstance!
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post #19 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futant
I thought someone posted that Dallas cops are still gonna arrest / prosecute for this even though the law was passed?
Something like the DA wanted it that way. Sounds like some vigilante bullshit to me.
But I would be on the lookout if I was yall.
Just because it's legal, doesn't mean the officer isn't instructed to arrest you and charge you with unlawful carrying of a firearm.
There is no way I would tell them, almost under any circumstance!
See, this is the kind of thing I'd be worried about. Either it's legal, or it isn't. What's with the gray area? Can anyone confirm if they are really doing this kind of stuff in Dallas?

Is it totally legal and legit, or is it one of those things that you'd have to get a lawyer and fight it?
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post #20 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow06
So just because someone has a gun in the car you are going to pull yours on them? Even if they are courteous and make no motion in that direction?
The law requires that it be concealed, and if it's concelaed there should be no cause for the officer to be alarmed if you make a motion in the direction of wherever it is. If it is in open view of the officer there's likely gonna be trouble.
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post #21 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 01:16 PM
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Texas extended the "Castle Doctrine" to cover you vehicle. But be aware certain counties are still arresting and charging for unlawful carrying of concealed weapons. My cousin is a lawyer in Harris County, and was telling me about the stink this is causing just this last weekend. Not sure how counties around here are treating this.

Heres a link to the DPS about the laws.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/adminis...LStatute07.pdf
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post #22 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 01:20 PM
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Essentially the state still requires you to be "traveling" in order to legally carry a handgun in your vehicle without a CHL, however now the person is presumed to be traveling and the burden of proving they are not doing so falls on the state.

A person is presumed to be traveling if the person is:
(1) in a private motor vehicle;
(2) not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
(3) not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
(4) not a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01; and
(5) not carrying a handgun in plain view.
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post #23 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 01:23 PM
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It's perfectly legal.

If a cop wants to arrest you, then they're well aware of the future lawsuits the department, himself, and the DA will be under.
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post #24 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4.0x3.48
Texas extended the "Castle Doctrine" to cover you vehicle. But be aware certain counties are still arresting and charging for unlawful carrying of concealed weapons. My cousin is a lawyer in Harris County, and was telling me about the stink this is causing just this last weekend. Not sure how counties around here are treating this.

Heres a link to the DPS about the laws.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/adminis...LStatute07.pdf

Damn, how can they do that?
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post #25 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
Essentially the state still requires you to be "traveling" in order to legally carry a handgun in your vehicle without a CHL, however now the person is presumed to be traveling and the burden of proving they are not doing so falls on the state.

A person is presumed to be traveling if the person is:
(1) in a private motor vehicle;
(2) not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
(3) not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;
(4) not a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01; and
(5) not carrying a handgun in plain view.
But check out page 3 and 4 of this link, posted above:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/admini...HLStatute07.pdf

It seems like they changed it to allow unlicensed carry (as long as it is concealed and not breaking a law), and then it talks about the travelling exemption separately.

I just don't see how they can bust you for this, but then again, I don't feel like fighting it if it happened.

I don't see myself carrying a weapon on my person anyway, ever. So if I can have it my vehicle without a CHL, then that's golden. Hmmm....
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post #26 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 01:38 PM
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Traveling has always been a defense against prosecution for unlicensed carry of a handgun in a vehicle in Texas. The difference was the person had to prove he was traveling, and traveling was never clearly defined by the State. Now the State must prove the person wasn't traveling, and although traveling still isn't clearly defined, the presumption of traveling is.
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post #27 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jluv
I don't see myself carrying a weapon on my person anyway, ever. So if I can have it my vehicle without a CHL, then that's golden. Hmmm....

Like anyone is going to fuck with you, tiny!

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post #28 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
Now the State must prove the person wasn't traveling, and although traveling still isn't clearly defined, the presumption of traveling is.
Really? I mean, I don't know, so I assume you're right I guess, but it doesn't read that way to me. I realize that the travelling thing has always been an exception to the rule, but that link makes it seem like there no longer needs to be any presumption that you are travelling at all. I read it as saying that the laws have been changed to allow for carrying it in your vehicle whether you are travelling or not. I guess that's where the gray area comes in, when it's tough to clearly translate the legalese.
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post #29 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Samhain
Like anyone is going to fuck with you, tiny!
Bad guys sometimes travel in packs!

I'm not paranoid or anything. I just think it would be nice to have at times.

Last edited by jluv; 05-23-2008 at 02:16 PM.
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post #30 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk
Traveling has always been a defense against prosecution for unlicensed carry of a handgun in a vehicle in Texas. The difference was the person had to prove he was traveling, and traveling was never clearly defined by the State. Now the State must prove the person wasn't traveling, and although traveling still isn't clearly defined, the presumption of traveling is.
Exactly.
The way I understand it is basically how you said. It used to be that everywhere would arrest you for this (especially in plain sight you have no defense)
and the general consensus was no one knew what traveling meant.
Most thought it did not mean normal travel to /fro gas stations, grocery, work (unless far).
people tended to try and use the 'more than one county' rule of thumb , which was vague at best, but case law seemed to support that a good measure for being within your rights.

Now they defined traveling as basically just being in your car. Which makes it much the states job to prove you were in fact not traveling in that vehicle.

Basically I do hope the DA's/cops that are making this difficult suffer from numerous lawsuits. They should be enforcing the law , not interpretting it on their own.

Good Lord, interpretting this stuff is hard enough.

Still my advice would be , don't carry unless you need it and be prepared for some asshat to arrest you. You might want to keep a lawyer for this very reason.
Being arrested is not going to be easy , you could lose your job and a good bit of money before you're 'innocent' AGAIN!

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post #31 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 02:44 PM
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it is perfectly legal to carry in your vehicle. I've got mine in the truck most of the time.... And yes, when i get stopped i roll my windows down, turn on the cabin light, and hold both hands out the window. When the officer approaches i tell him i've got a loaded (nothing chambered) gun in the truck, tell him where it is, and 9 times out of 10 they don't ask to see it or even care, just tell me to keep my hands in plain sight and we'll be fine.

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post #32 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowthreeohz
Jluv, 9-17-07 they changed the castle doctrine like mentioned above, and it is perfectly legal to carry in your vehicle. I've got mine in the truck most of the time.... And yes, when i get stopped i roll my windows down, turn on the cabin light, and hold both hands out the window. When the officer approaches i tell him i've got a loaded (nothing chambered) gun in the truck, tell him where it is, and 9 times out of 10 they don't ask to see it or even care, just tell me to keep my hands in plain sight and we'll be fine.
A long time ago someone told me that the best thing to do was stick your hands out the window. I did that the next time I was pulled over, and the cop didn't like it at all. He said that made him assume I was some kind of wanted felon, and that I should just keep them on the wheel instead.
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post #33 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 03:06 PM
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You're also a big mofo in a drug dealer lookin whip

I'm just some skinny white kid in a big farm truck
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post #34 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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You're also a big mofo in a drug dealer lookin whip

I'm just some skinny white kid in a big farm truck
I think I was in a Geo Prizm at the time. LMAO!!!
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post #35 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 03:13 PM
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you in a prizm? i'm calling bullshit!
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post #36 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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you in a prizm? i'm calling bullshit!

I drove that bitch for a year. I shit you not. We named it Toadie. It finally blew up on the highway and I just called a junkyard to go pick it up and keep it.

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post #37 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 11:25 PM
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Made an overnight run to Amarillo and back a couple weeks ago. Got pulled over by State Trooper. Loaded pistol in center console. Weren't asked, didn't volunteer. Continued on way 5 mins later with a warning.

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post #38 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-24-2008, 11:16 PM
 
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On channel 8 news they discussed this for those of you that didnt watch it. Yes you can carry and the Dallas DA is not going to be prosecuting persons that are following the new law.


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post #39 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-25-2008, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futant
I thought someone posted that Dallas cops are still gonna arrest / prosecute for this even though the law was passed?
Something like the DA wanted it that way. Sounds like some vigilante bullshit to me.
But I would be on the lookout if I was yall.
Just because it's legal, doesn't mean the officer isn't instructed to arrest you and charge you with unlawful carrying of a firearm.
There is no way I would tell them, almost under any circumstance!
Are you referring to the same Dallas County that has the main goal of letting "innocent" people go instead of focusing on putting people away for current crimes???
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post #40 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-25-2008, 11:56 AM
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been pulled over a number of times with my pistol laying on the center seat w/ the console/rest over it (dodge truck owners know what I'm talking about) butt of the gun is just visible, but black gun/black seat, etc.

I always tell officers that I've got my pistol in the truck. Just a respect thing I guess. more often than not it results in a warning and not a traffic citation
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post #41 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-25-2008, 12:13 PM
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Exactly...offer the info early and you can avoid a potentially bad misunderstanding. It's called respect...they have a job to do and if you have nothing to hide what's the big deal?

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post #42 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-25-2008, 12:32 PM
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So much mis information in this thread it should be deleted....

Castle Doctrine has NOTHING to do with carrying in your car. It is a measure of protection for when you use deadly force of any kind to protect you from being sued..

If you clowns are going to listen to AnYONE in this thread with an answer, it better be David!!!



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post #43 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-25-2008, 12:41 PM
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Motorists Protection ActHB 1815
“Concealed Handguns in Vehicles OK” -- “Traveling” law confusion a thing of the past.

The offense of illegally carrying a handgun, illegal knife or club has been removed from law if you are on your own premises, premises under your control, or inside or directly enroute to a motor vehicle you own or is under your control. The weapons remain illegal if you intentionally, knowingly or recklessly carry them in plain view in a motor vehicle, or are involved in certain criminal activity, are in a criminal gang, or cannot legally possess a firearm. This new law ends decades of legal abuse of innocent citizens under deceptive “traveling” rules, affirmative defenses, prosecutorial discretion, denials of civil rights and traps for the unwary.

Texas thus becomes the fourth state to recognize Freedom to Carry (FTC) -- concealed carry with no permit -- at least under the narrow circumstances of in vehicles and on your premises. (The other three are Vermont, Alaska, and Montana outside of city limits. Arizona recognizes FTC in your home, business and on land you own or lease.) FTC differs from so-called “Right-to-Carry,” which requires a government-issued permit, forms, tests, taxation, fingerprinting, photographing, embedding in state and federal databases and an expiration date, for exercise of “rights.”
Passed (5/26/07), Effective date 9/1/07.
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post #44 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-25-2008, 06:59 PM
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good/bad legislation

unclear at best.

i think laws are written to have gray areas on purpose.otherwise just say what it is cut-n-clear so "all" americans can understand and not have to live life with there buttholes so tight affraid of getting arrested and wasting time and money because of one cop that "felt like" arresting and giving someone a hard time.

i mean damn,when you sell a car its cut n dry(unless your mustang93)lol

seriously,in todays times,i would pack my peice loaded and not visible.dont ask dont tell would be my advice.if you offer info on a loaded handgun you may get jerked out of your car and tazed!

in witch case you hire an attorney and sue the shit out of the department and more importantly the officer.

let it be known that you know your rights and you are prepared to sue everyone inluding the officer.
you are americans and this is still america and you do have rights,no matter what!



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post #45 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-25-2008, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slow06
So just because someone has a gun in the car you are going to pull yours on them? Even if they are courteous and make no motion in that direction?
No fucking shit. My father was a police officer. One night, he pulled over some punk that had no warrants, no drugs, but a gun. He didn't want to waste his time, so pulled out a piece before my dad even got to the window, and shot him. So officers, don't take a fucking chance.
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post #46 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-25-2008, 10:01 PM
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Then again I'm not a suspicious looking person.
Driving while white, FTW!
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post #47 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 89gt-stanger
No fucking shit. My father was a police officer. One night, he pulled over some punk that had no warrants, no drugs, but a gun. He didn't want to waste his time, so pulled out a piece before my dad even got to the window, and shot him. So officers, don't take a fucking chance.
I don't understand.
Doesn't the officer have to get to the window before he can ask me if I have a gun, then I can tell him?

If the guy shot him before he even approached, WTF difference does it make ?

It's not like I can yell out the window "I got a gun up here, you might wanna be prepared"
Yeah that might arouse some suspicion!

The only thing I always do is keep my hands visible. That's exactly what he should have been watching as approaching. Cops always have their hand on the gun , probably for this reason.

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post #48 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by futant

The only thing I always do is keep my hands visible. That's exactly what he should have been watching as approaching. Cops always have their hand on the gun , probably for this reason.
which is why i do just that!
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post #49 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 03:10 PM
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I got pulled over the other night. speeding, nothing biggie. I have always put my hands on the wheel and turned on all my interior lights, and the keys visably on the dash. I do that so the officer knows that I am showing respect and am not going to be a problem for him. Evrythings okie dokie. I just got off work some im heading home cause I want to get some sleep, hence the speeding. he takes my license, inssurance and hes gone for a good 5 minutes. He comes back and he noticeably has his hand on his gun. He asks if I have a weapon in the car. Tell him no, cause I don't as work doesn't let me carry or have one even inside the building while im working. The reason he asked was my file says i have a CHL, which i do. explain this all to him and he gets pissy cause I dont let him know I dont have a weapon. Says I should have told him that I dont have a weapon. the thing is, I didnt show him my CHL because I did not have a weapon. I made the choice to not show my CHL because I did not have a weapon. mistake? possibly. I didnt view it as one because I didnt have a weapon. Should I have shown him my pilot's license as well? I didnt have my plane with me, but he might have wanted to know if it had been on my record.
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post #50 of 95 (permalink) Old 05-27-2008, 03:54 PM
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There is no requirement to show an officer your CHL if you are not carrying, and you were completely within your rights to not do so. He was either wrong or being an ass, or possibly both
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