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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quick ammo questions...

I'm still looking at bolt-action rifles and want to make sure I've got it straight.

.22LR is by far the cheapest, but is also limited to ~100yds or so.

.223 ammo and 5.62 Nato are the same?

.308 and 7.62 Nato are some what interchangeable: You can shoot either in a .308 designed rifle, but .308 is not recommended in 7.62 designed rifles (.308 rounds are often packed w/ higher pressures)....sound correct?

.22LR would by far be the cheapest way to go all the way around (ammo, rifle, etc), but if I ever decide I want to hunt something decently sized it's just going to piss it off.... That's why I'm still looking at .223 and .308.

Thanks for putting up w/ the noob gun ?'s. Any advice or opinions are welcome.

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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 08:39 PM
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Depends on what you may be hunting, .223 is too small for deer and larger. I prolly wouldn't shoot a hog with it either.
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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 09:04 PM
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.223 is 5.56, not 5.62

I've heard and seen evidence that .223 is adequate for deer and hogs around here.


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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
.223 is 5.56, not 5.62

I've heard and seen evidence that .223 is adequate for deer and hogs around here.
My bad...typo on my part.

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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 09:21 PM
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You can hunt deer with any center fire rifle in Texas. Now that .17 and .20 caliber center fire are common, I wonder if that will change.

A .223 or 5.56x45 will do quite well on Texas deer. Important thing is you have to have a good shot. Someone posted on this site a deer taken by his boy with a 22 Hornet. 22 Hornet is same caliber, .224, but lower velocity than a .223. .22-250 is .224 caliber but lot faster.

The bigger hole you make, the more meat is damaged. After freezing my butt off and waking up 2 hours before daybreak, I don't want to lose any.

From what I read and what I see, you can shoot .223 ammo in 5.56x45, but not recommended vice versa. The metric cartridge is military, and as such, a higher pressure round. Same idea with .308 Winchester and 7.62x51 NATO. I don't recommend shooting anything but what the rifle/pistol says to shoot.

My dad got a buck last year with a .22-250. Dropped it dead in it tracks with heart/lung shot at 90 yards.

.22LR rimfire is nice gun to learn on. Relatively cheap on ammo and rifle, and a bolt action or single shot is pretty easy to learn. Semi-auto is more complicated and requires more maintenance.

NEF makes a nice Handi-Rifle that comes in lots of calibers. It is cheap and accurate. Great rifle to learn with.

Hogs are a lot tougher. I am sure a well placed .224 caliber bullet can take them down. But a .25 - .30 caliber would be better. Some folks like to hunt them with semi-auto carbine like an SKS or pistol.

Any of the .223 Rem, .243 Win, .25-06 Rem, .260 Rem, .270 Win, or 7mm-08 Rem would be rifles to start with. Anything more powerful than that, and a bad hold can result in a broken finger, magnum forehead cut, or worse.

I shoot a Remington 7mm Mag bolt action. But am contemplating something that shoots softer. After 20 rounds at the range, my shoulder is sore. Especially with my handload. ;P

.270 Win and Remington 7mm Magnum are very common for Texas hunting. Out of 8 people in our hunting party, all had one or the other, except for my Dad with his .22-250.

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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
.223 is 5.56, not 5.62

I've heard and seen evidence that .223 is adequate for deer and hogs around here.
Sure, with good bullet placement you can kill with a .22LR (not legally) but a .22 caliber bullet is too light to carry enough energy for a sure kill at distance or if the shot is a little off. I've head shot deer with a 22-250 and dropped them in their tracks but under normal hunting conditions I do not carry it as I would have to pass on too many shots that it could not make. Depends if you want, and can, limit yourself to sure shots in capable range of the rifle. I've shot hogs in the head at 40 yards with a .44 mag and they required a 2nd shot; you better be able to put it thru the eye or ear with a small caliber or the skull will stop it unless you are very close to it. And hogs don't stand still very long for an exact shot
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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 09:44 PM
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I don't hunt; I'm just repeating the shit that I've heard before.


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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
I don't hunt; I'm just repeating the shit that I've heard before.
Copy that, I thought for sure you did with all the guns and reloading! I've got a small arsenal but all except the Glock 27 and Witness .38 Super have been on a hunt for something

I've got to get my reloading stuff setup again as I haven't reloaded in a loooong time....
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 10:42 PM
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I have taken down hogs with ease with my M4. .223 is plenty good for dropping a hog with. I always do head shots on the hogs. No sense in wasting any meat.

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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topher
I have taken down hogs with ease with my M4. .223 is plenty good for dropping a hog with. I always do head shots on the hogs. No sense in wasting any meat.
Do you yell out, "BOOM! Headshot!"?


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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-07-2008, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gspfunk
I'm still looking at bolt-action rifles and want to make sure I've got it straight.

.22LR is by far the cheapest, but is also limited to ~100yds or so.

.223 ammo and 5.62 Nato are the same?

.308 and 7.62 Nato are some what interchangeable: You can shoot either in a .308 designed rifle, but .308 is not recommended in 7.62 designed rifles (.308 rounds are often packed w/ higher pressures)....sound correct?

.22LR would by far be the cheapest way to go all the way around (ammo, rifle, etc), but if I ever decide I want to hunt something decently sized it's just going to piss it off.... That's why I'm still looking at .223 and .308.

Thanks for putting up w/ the noob gun ?'s. Any advice or opinions are welcome.
.308 commercial ammo is normally a hotter round, yes. But, it's also a thinner casing. Nato brass is almost twice as thick. Also, .308 is just about 2x as expensive as .223. It is quite a bit larger than a .223 and has a good punch to it.
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
Do you yell out, "BOOM! Headshot!"?
Doesn't everybody?

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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
.308 commercial ammo is normally a hotter round, yes. But, it's also a thinner casing. Nato brass is almost twice as thick. Also, .308 is just about 2x as expensive as .223. It is quite a bit larger than a .223 and has a good punch to it.
When it comes to hunting rounds, 223 is just as expensive as 308. They are both about 20 bucks a box (Hunting rounds).

For full metal jacket

You can go out and buy 223 for about 5 bucks a box.

If you look, you can find Silverbear 308 for 5-8 dollars a box. (cheaper than dirt was selling them for 4.87 a box).

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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacotua
When it comes to hunting rounds, 223 is just as expensive as 308. They are both about 20 bucks a box (Hunting rounds).

For full metal jacket

You can go out and buy 223 for about 5 bucks a box.

If you look, you can find Silverbear 308 for 5-8 dollars a box. (cheaper than dirt was selling them for 4.87 a box).
oh yeah? the cheapest I'm aware of is monarch for 8.99 a box.
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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 07:41 AM
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Just curious, but those three rounds are extremely far apart and the only constant is you are looking for a bolt action rifle.

Why a bolt action? The reason itself may help with caliber selection.
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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 08:44 AM
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.223 is ok if you use like the winchester 62 grain larger game rounds or other lager grain rounds that isn't military FMJ. However you will need a tighter 1 in 9 or so twist to maintain the heavier weight.

I would certainly say start with a .22. it will only make you a better shooter and at 10 dollars a box of 500 your not going to get bored very fast.
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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
Just curious, but those three rounds are extremely far apart and the only constant is you are looking for a bolt action rifle.

Why a bolt action? The reason itself may help with caliber selection.
Bolt action rifles are a lot of fun and seem to be a little more accurate in stock form. I grew up shooting all kinds of .22's (pump, semi-auto, and bolt) and want a fun rifle of my own. I'm looking to keep the cost of ammo down so it is not such an expensive hobby. My fiance's dad/family has a lot of land down by Cleburne that we go shooting on...usually pick off turtles by the stock tanks or set up targets.

I don't have a need for a hunting caliber in a rifle, so I guess I could just buy a different rifle later down the road.....

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BTW, I hope you cut up her card(s) already. Giving a woman a credit card is like giving a monkey a loaded machine gun. It's just fucking irresponsible.
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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 09:50 AM
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Have you considered a TC or other handgun, with a barrel for all three? It might be more fun, and I bet you could find a 22rimfire / common rifle cartridge combo used. 223 is pretty common, 308/30-06 sometimes only have a few shots through them.
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 09:55 AM
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17hmr isn't too cheap but the accuracy is amazing often sub moa at 100 yards perfect for turtles.



however savage mark II bolt action .22s are very very accurate and would keep the cost way down also great for turtles.


I like the semi auto so i can take care of more turtles at a time
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronco71
Depends on what you may be hunting, .223 is too small for deer and larger. I prolly wouldn't shoot a hog with it either.
lmao

Don't even post anymore.

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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
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lmao

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Well, I don't think a .223 would be a good choice for big deer, like mule deer.
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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Notch
I would be willing to be if the army can hunt people with the 5.56x45mm then it will be plenty for a deer or hog
Military went to 5.56x45mm to double the amount of ammo that can be carried, quantity is more critical in a firefight......Snipers on the other hand use the 7.62 for more energy, less wind drift, longer range, etc., it is much less restrictive.

And deer and hogs and other wild game are much harder to bring down than a human due to thicker hides, bones, etc.

Just look at a ballistics table and compare the energy at various distances Also look at the wind drift. Why do you think it is illegal to hunt large game with a .22 caliber centerfire in so many states?

Sure, it can be done and has been done but you are restricting your chances and may have to pass a trophy animal or lose it due to not having the proper shot. This is a newbie asking, I would never suggest a caliber for his only hunting rifle that would limit his chances and that is not even legal to hunt with in many states! That is like giving a new dove hunter a .410 to hunt with!
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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Notch
yes .308 has more energy but I think I remember reading some where that 90% of all deer killed are shot at under 150 yards and at that distance you dont need the 1000+ yard potential of the .308
And so a record class buck is quartering away at 225 yards with a 25mph crosswind.......

And if someone draws down on me from 250 yards and a stiff crosswind I'm going to hope they have a .223 and I'll take them out with the .308.....

But in a firefight up close and personal I'd want the .223...

It is the age old argument of calibers that will continue to go on and on
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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 04:55 PM
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And if hunting deer in bear country piss on that .223
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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
oh yeah? the cheapest I'm aware of is monarch for 8.99 a box.
Here is a scan of a Cheaper than Dirt Catalog.

(Look at the Silverbear).

They carrry it from time to time and its really cheap. (Under 6 dollars a box of 20 for FMJ). I purchased a couple of cases of this stuff when it was 4.80 a box.
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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-08-2008, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacotua
Here is a scan of a Cheaper than Dirt Catalog.

(Look at the Silverbear).

They carrry it from time to time and its really cheap. (Under 6 dollars a box of 20 for FMJ). I purchased a couple of cases of this stuff when it was 4.80 a box.
I will keep my eye out, thanks for the scan. If you see it up there let me know, I'll clean them out!
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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
Well, I don't think a .223 would be a good choice for big deer, like mule deer.
My grandfather use to take them with 22Hornet.
The piggy I shot a couple months ago didn't seem to mind being hit with Guat 5.56.

They aren't superheros.

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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.0_CJ
I will keep my eye out, thanks for the scan. If you see it up there let me know, I'll clean them out!
Go to Cheaper than dirts website. Enter the catalog number (from the scan) and you'll see the link to the ammo. Just sign up for a email alert and they'll email you when they get more in stock.

Just a warning though, I've only seen that ammo at cheaper than dirt 3-4 times in the past 3 years. But again, everytime I've seen it, its been under 6 dollars a box. The ammo is just like Wolf 308 however, just a little dirty, but I really don't mind since I clean my rifle after every shooting.

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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 07:35 AM
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Well I saw an article online with photo of a polar bear taking down by an AR-15 this week.

An article in a Reloader magazine talked about a 220 Swift used by a game warden to taken down elk that were destroying crops.

I used to think Rem 7mm mag and .300 Win Mag were needed to hunt in North America. And nothing short of a 338 Win Mag or 375H&H mag was needed for Alaska Hunting.

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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacotua
Go to Cheaper than dirts website. Enter the catalog number (from the scan) and you'll see the link to the ammo. Just sign up for a email alert and they'll email you when they get more in stock.

Just a warning though, I've only seen that ammo at cheaper than dirt 3-4 times in the past 3 years. But again, everytime I've seen it, its been under 6 dollars a box. The ammo is just like Wolf 308 however, just a little dirty, but I really don't mind since I clean my rifle after every shooting.
thanks for the tip.
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post #31 of 34 (permalink) Old 04-09-2008, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GT98SVO
Well I saw an article online with photo of a polar bear taking down by an AR-15 this week.

An article in a Reloader magazine talked about a 220 Swift used by a game warden to taken down elk that were destroying crops.

I used to think Rem 7mm mag and .300 Win Mag were needed to hunt in North America. And nothing short of a 338 Win Mag or 375H&H mag was needed for Alaska Hunting.
Eskimos love the 22-250 and 223.

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