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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 06:33 AM Thread Starter
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M16 and AR15

I was told last night that the M16 was the military issue rifle,and the AR15 was the civilian version. I know that the M16 was used during Veitnam, but I thought it evolved into what is being used today and that is the ar15. What brought this up was, I was watching I AM LEGEND with a friends, and I said " Nice AR with ACOG". He leaned over and said "Thats not a AR its a M16". I just said ok. He said what seperates them is one is fully, and the other is semi. If anyone has seen I AM LEGEND, the rifle that Will Smith uses looks just like a M4 AR15 to me. Discuss...



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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 06:35 AM
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Oh no...
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 06:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny
Oh no...

I know, This is a critical issue



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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 06:56 AM
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In all reality, the AR was around first and was actually the prototype that was considered for the military, which led to the M16. But yes, the AR is the "civilian" semi-auto and the M16 is full-auto.
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 07:53 AM
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In short...

If the selector switch has 3 positions then it's an M16.
*Safe - fire - burst* for an A2
*Safe - fire - auto* for an A1.

They can be owned by "civilians" but come with some paperwork and a hefty price tag.


If the selector switch has 2 positions it's an AR15.
*Safe - fire*



Here's a description of the the internal parts differences: http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/


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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 09:00 AM
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For all necessary purposes of this thread, an AR15 is the civilian variant of the military M16. Anything in an M16 platform whether it be an M16, M16a1, M16a2, M16a3, M16a4, M4, M4a1 etc.; can all be had in an AR15. Except the AR15 isnt full auto or burst capable.

BUT in reality, the military adopted the AR-15, before it was picked up as a redesigned and designated weapon known as the M16.
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 10:12 AM
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Speaking of which, i'm looking to buy my first AR, but I don't really know what to look for and buy.

What can i buy to start off? In the end i would like to build a m4 like out of the movie s.w.a.t. or I am Legend...

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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BpuTacoma
Speaking of which, i'm looking to buy my first AR, but I don't really know what to look for and buy.

What can i buy to start off? In the end i would like to build a m4 like out of the movie s.w.a.t. or I am Legend...
Any AR manufacturer offers that basic platform off the movie. Most will be designated under the "M4" platform. Colt, Armalite, Rockriver, etc etc.

Or you could build one yourself.
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Good_Ole_Red
Any AR manufacturer offers that basic platform off the movie. Most will be designated under the "M4" platform. Colt, Armalite, Rockriver, etc etc.

Or you could build one yourself.
hmm....What's the most affordable brand to start off at? should i pick something up at the Market Hall gun show?

Anyone wanna help me build one?

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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BpuTacoma
hmm....What's the most affordable brand to start off at? should i pick something up at the Market Hall gun show?
If cheap price is your primary focus, you don't want to mess with building one. You should pick up something used at a gun show and learn how to shoot it. Once you decide you like it, then mod it a little at a time as you can afford to.

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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
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If cheap price is your primary focus, you don't want to mess with building one.
But you can build them cheap


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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stroked71Bowtie
But you can build them cheap
Yep, typically cheaper than buying a complete one to boot...

You arent going to find a cheap complete AR at any gun show...

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 08:37 PM
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Ar15s may have a full auto carrier, but no sear to go with it ;.)


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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by launchinfox
Ar15s may have a full auto carrier, but no sear to go with it ;.)
I thought that was illegal as well? And the whole full auto trigger group and selector is illegal, not just the sear.
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-03-2008, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DOHCTR
I thought that was illegal as well? And the whole full auto trigger group and selector is illegal, not just the sear.
Personally I wouldnt buy any of it unless I had an M16.

At which point does the ATF declare constructive intent if something did come up?
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BpuTacoma
hmm....What's the most affordable brand to start off at? should i pick something up at the Market Hall gun show?

Anyone wanna help me build one?

dont think cheap, think GOOD.

IMO, stay away from DPMS

good brands are: colt, rock river, stag, bushmaster..

had my stag ar15 with carry handle etc etc built for about $730.

as it sits now, a bit more with the rails and aftermarket stock...


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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by lolvtec
dont think cheap, think GOOD.

IMO, stay away from DPMS

good brands are: colt, rock river, stag, bushmaster..

had my stag ar15 with carry handle etc etc built for about $730.

as it sits now, a bit more with the rails and aftermarket stock...
I was looking around and actually considered DPMS, i didn't hear anything bad. What about Olympic Arms?

Is there a online store that sells like new guns for a good price?

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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by BpuTacoma
I was looking around and actually considered DPMS, i didn't hear anything bad. What about Olympic Arms?

Is there a online store that sells like new guns for a good price?
Keep away from Olympic also.
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-04-2008, 09:37 AM
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Actually even Olympic has been doing alot better.I would like to have one in 9mm that takes the Glock mags.
My DPMS/JT has run fine. Just as accurate as my wife's RRA.

Do a search here for info on building your own.
My sister just did one for $580.

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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 09:01 PM
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I found the thread you were talking about allan but have a few questions. Somebody please help me here....

I am looking at building my first AR. I plan on going to the Dallas show tomorrow and don't really know what to look for. I know I will need to buy a lower and an upper. Do they necessary need to be the same manufacturer or does that matter. Also, if I buy a complete lower and an upper, is that all I will need besides a stock? If I buy a stripped lower, what else do I need to buy? Will I need any special tools? From what I have read, I should be able to build one and that way customize it the way I want it rather than buying one complete. Any recommendations on who to buy from at Dallas?

From the other thread it looks like a should be able to get a complete lower around $200-225 and an upper for $350-400. Is that new or used prices? If thats the case I would much rather build my own. Please throw any suggestions out there.

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post #21 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 09:11 PM
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For the lower.
You can get them stripped, or complete.
I prefer complete.Then you can just slap an upper on.

Uppers can be bought online in the 400 range.

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post #22 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLAN
Robbie
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For the lower.
You can get them stripped, or complete.
I prefer complete.Then you can just slap an upper on.

Uppers can be bought online in the 400 range.
Thanks! Do the upper and lower need to be the same manufacturer or can I buy a RRA lower and Armalite upper?

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Last edited by ALLAN; 01-05-2008 at 09:22 PM.
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post #23 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billyb0b81
Thanks! Do the upper and lower need to be the same manufacturer or can I buy a RRA lower and Armalite upper?
Upper and lower can be different.
I have a DMPS lower and JT upper.
My sister got an RRA lower with the Armalite upper.
Robby should have DPMS, Double Star, and RRA.

You will need to get a rear site if you buy a flattop upper.

sorry about the edit...hit the wrong button.

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post #24 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 09:28 PM
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You had me kinda confused for a minute . Thanks for the info! This will be my first AR so I am trying to get all the info I can before trying to buy anything at the show tomorrow. Is a flattop upper good? I kind of like the pic in post #16. Sorry for all the questions, but I am glad you have the answers!!

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post #25 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 09:47 PM
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It's a flattop with detachable carry handle.

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post #26 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billyb0b81
You had me kinda confused for a minute . Thanks for the info! This will be my first AR so I am trying to get all the info I can before trying to buy anything at the show tomorrow. Is a flattop upper good? I kind of like the pic in post #16. Sorry for all the questions, but I am glad you have the answers!!
flat-top upper is good if you intend to go with aftermarket optics.. like a EOtech or aimpoint, etc... you can save a few $$ by not getting the carry handle but in that case you will need to buy a backup sight which will cost $50-150 depending on what you get.. so you have a lot of options really.

lowers are less important than uppers i'd argue; its just a frame that any parts kit can fill.

the reason you buy lowers local is because they are the serial numbered parts, and you have to do the whole fingerprint thing... uppers can usually be bought online cheaper, and the brands dont have to match.


really though... i'd stick with bushmaster, stag, rock river, colt.


to the guy that said NO olympic arms... i second that.

edit///
also: the difference between a good brand and a bad brand doesnt have to be huge.

but its the SMALL differences in quality that make up huge differences in price.

think of it this way, a dpms may be ok to shoot at the range.. because if it is slightly less accurate/reliable... who cares.

but if its something you would ever let your life depend on, its worth the extra money to have peace of mind.
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post #27 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 10:45 AM
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Any opinions on these guns? $570 isn't a bad deal. And from what the guys are AR15.com are saying, the guns are practically new.
But idea of buying the lower locally and the upper online sounds like a good deal.

http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?shop=1&&cat=33&

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