Harrell not invited to the Heisman presentation? - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 07:18 AM Thread Starter
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Harrell not invited to the Heisman presentation?

Hmmmm...

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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 07:19 AM
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I think he might have lost then.
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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 07:31 AM
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from what I read, neither is Crabtree
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 07:38 AM
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If Tech would have beat OU, he would have been. But just another political dump in the NCAA. Go figure.
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 07:39 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stinginstang
from what I read, neither is Crabtree
McCoy, Bradford, and Tebow.

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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 07:46 AM
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This is just more proof that no matter what hype they get or how they do during the season...Tech will always be Tech.

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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by 11sec4eyes
If Tech would have beat OU, he would have been. But just another political dump in the NCAA. Go figure.

look at the gap between 3rd & 4th, why bother?

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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Vertnut
McCoy, Bradford, and Tebow.
Looking at those ratings, how can anyone say that Tebow is better than both Bradford and McCoy. Look at the number of first place votes he has. His stats are nowhere near as good as either Bradford or McCoy. He plays in a weaker conference too. Where's Bosworth and his National Communists Against Athletes shirt when you need it?

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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Juiceweezl
Looking at those ratings, how can anyone say that Tebow is better than both Bradford and McCoy. Look at the number of first place votes he has. His stats are nowhere near as good as either Bradford or McCoy. He plays in a weaker conference too. Where's Bosworth and his National Communists Against Athletes shirt when you need it?
I've seen Tebow just a few times, and he's pretty impressive. He's a big guy that just runs over folks. I can't really argue against any of the three. None of their perspective teams would be any good without them.

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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ZYouL8R
This is just more proof that no matter what hype they get or how they do during the season...Tech will always be Tech.
Well you can thank that same Tech team for ruining your season and starting the whining from every horn fan alive.

The Heisman and college football in general is all about the paper trail and BS politics that Tech and Leach do not play.

I hope Michael Crabtree scoring with 1 second left does not keep you up at night...
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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 10:26 AM
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That's some bs, both not invited.
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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Juiceweezl
Looking at those ratings, how can anyone say that Tebow is better than both Bradford and McCoy. Look at the number of first place votes he has. His stats are nowhere near as good as either Bradford or McCoy. He plays in a weaker conference too. Where's Bosworth and his National Communists Against Athletes shirt when you need it?
you call others ignorant about NCAA football then make this statement? LOL. thanks for showing yet again how biased you are, to say tebow doesn't have the stats to back it up is just dumb.

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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 01:30 PM
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you call others ignorant about NCAA football then make this statement? LOL. thanks for showing yet again how biased you are, to say tebow doesn't have the stats to back it up is just dumb.
I'm not saying he's not deserving of being invited, just that he's a surefire 3rd behind McCoy and Bradford. They have better stats by far, more impressive wins as a team (at least McCoy does), and McCoy even has much less of a supporting cast on offense. You could argue that Harvin should get invited, but you can't say that about anyone else on UT or OU really for that matter. McCoy and Bradford have done it against better teams as well. Putting favorites aside, I don't see that any first place votes should go to anyone other than Bradford or McCoy. Numbers don't lie.

Tebow 174-268 2515 yards (64.9%) 28TD's, 2 INT's; 154 carries for 564 yards, 12 TD's -- and he played in 1 extra game.

McCoy 291-375 3445 yards (77.6%) 32TD's, 7 INT's; 128 carries for 576 yards, 10 TD's

McCoy completed more passes than Tebow attempted and rushed for more yards on fewer carries. He was also the team's leading rusher. Tebow had 2 teammates rush for more yardage than him. McCoy represents a much higher percentage of his team's offense. Bradford's numbers would make Tebow's look even worse. Even Harrell's numbers tower over Tebow, but he was hurt by having OU & UT in the conference and for having Crabtree on the same team. Tell me again now exactly why Tebow is a clear cut choice over BOTH Bradford and McCoy. It seems you are the one holding the SEC bias. Last year, no question he was the clear cut #1. This season #1 isn't clear cut, but it should be clear that #1 isn't Tebow.

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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Juiceweezl
I'm not saying he's not deserving of being invited, just that he's a surefire 3rd behind McCoy and Bradford. They have better stats by far, more impressive wins as a team (at least McCoy does), and McCoy even has much less of a supporting cast on offense. You could argue that Harvin should get invited, but you can't say that about anyone else on UT or OU really for that matter. McCoy and Bradford have done it against better teams as well. Putting favorites aside, I don't see that any first place votes should go to anyone other than Bradford or McCoy. Numbers don't lie.

Tebow 174-268 2515 yards (64.9%) 28TD's, 2 INT's; 154 carries for 564 yards, 12 TD's -- and he played in 1 extra game.

McCoy 291-375 3445 yards (77.6%) 32TD's, 7 INT's; 128 carries for 576 yards, 10 TD's

McCoy completed more passes than Tebow attempted and rushed for more yards on fewer carries. He was also the team's leading rusher. Tebow had 2 teammates rush for more yardage than him. McCoy represents a much higher percentage of his team's offense. Bradford's numbers would make Tebow's look even worse. Even Harrell's numbers tower over Tebow, but he was hurt by having OU & UT in the conference and for having Crabtree on the same team. Tell me again now exactly why Tebow is a clear cut choice over BOTH Bradford and McCoy. It seems you are the one holding the SEC bias. Last year, no question he was the clear cut #1. This season #1 isn't clear cut, but it should be clear that #1 isn't Tebow.
wait so he should be punished because he has better teammates? I don't think he should win it this year, but to make that statement is just wrong. If it was just a number game as you want to claim then the last few years the qb from Hawaii should have won. As for quailty wins, mccoy has OU, bradford has tech, tebow has bama, those are the only wins vs top 10 teams at the end of the season.

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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Studly
reading both of your arguments reminds me of why I am not a big fan of the Heisman. The voting criteria and definition of "Heisman Winner" changes from year to year. The Heisman should go to the best college football player, or most "outstanding" as it is described. This decade it has become the best player on the best team, or one of the best teams. This year is a little different because I think the 3 candidates are 3 of the best players in college football, but look at the past. Chris Weinke? Troy Smith? Give me a break. The Heisman is a joke and it is often a battle of "stats", not a choice between the best college football player. Call me bias, but I think as far as talent, skills, mechanics and playing the position, Bradford is heads above both. I also think you could say Crabtree is a better football player than all 3, but it is also hard to compare across positions. The Heisman has become nothing more than politics. I just read a pretty good article on it.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/200...-championship/

With that being said, I hope McCoy wins the Heisman because it usually means bad luck for the winner in a NC game.
if it is to go to the best player in all of college then without a doubt it would be crabtree, but it isn't. Hell i would argue that Orakpo would be another one that should win it or at least be invited, without him UT has no pressure on the qb without blitzing.

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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 5.8 STANG
Well you can thank that same Tech team for ruining your season and starting the whining from every horn fan alive.

The Heisman and college football in general is all about the paper trail and BS politics that Tech and Leach do not play.

I hope Michael Crabtree scoring with 1 second left does not keep you up at night...
I'm not whining. I thought Texas was going to lose 3 or 4 games this year. Just making it to a BCS game is good enough for me this season. I can promise you that nothing about TT keeps me up at night.

But on that note, enjoy the Cotton Bowl and being the red-headed step child of the Big 12 South.

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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Studly
reading both of your arguments reminds me of why I am not a big fan of the Heisman. The voting criteria and definition of "Heisman Winner" changes from year to year. The Heisman should go to the best college football player, or most "outstanding" as it is described. This decade it has become the best player on the best team, or one of the best teams. This year is a little different because I think the 3 candidates are 3 of the best players in college football, but look at the past. Chris Weinke? Troy Smith? Give me a break. The Heisman is a joke and it is often a battle of "stats", not a choice between the best college football player. Call me bias, but I think as far as talent, skills, mechanics and playing the position, Bradford is heads above both. I also think you could say Crabtree is a better football player than all 3, but it is also hard to compare across positions. The Heisman has become nothing more than politics. I just read a pretty good article on it.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/200...-championship/

With that being said, I hope McCoy wins the Heisman because it usually means bad luck for the winner in a NC game.
I agree with you wholeheartedly and second the notion that Crabtree is probably the best player. My initial statement was not that Tebow shouldn't be there or isn't necessarily worthy. It was simply that there is no way he should receive more votes, especially that many more votes for first thatn McCoy and Bradford who have both had better seasons. I put up numbers to push it a little farther. IMO, and I think most of you will agree, McCoy is far more valuable to his team than the other two. All 3 players make their teams better for sure, but without McCoy, UT may lose 4 or more games. However, that doesn't mean he's a lock or should win at all. To me, it's a coin flip between Bradford and McCoy. If you want to base it on numbers and simple passing performance and executing the offense, then it's probably Bradford. If you want to base it on leadership, most valuable to the team, and better athlete, then it's McCoy. You can compare it to the Graham Harrell situation this year. He had a great year and is a great QB, but there is no question that he's behind Bradford and McCoy. I feel it's the same with Tebow.

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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 07:51 PM
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It's because he's a crybaby.

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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 07:56 PM
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It's because he's a crybaby.
Damn right, you should have seen him after we beat that ass in Texas stadium when he played for Ennis. Talk about a poor, sad, sport--yelling and cussing at our coaches.

Fuck Graham Harrell.

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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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Bradford had two 1000yd backs in the backfield...TWO. In contrast, McCoy was the leading rusher for UT, and was responsible for over 70% of the offensive production...for the number 3 team in the nation. I'd say that's a pretty damn good player.

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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Big Studly
and? You can't punish a guy because because he has good players around him. Having those backs might have taken away from his offensive production. Bradford didn't have to create yards, he went out and controlled the machine of an offense that OU is and made plays when he had to. Great players know how to use their weapons to make the offense work, no just be the one man show. Before I get jumped on, McCoy did have an impressive year, I just don't think he should get special points because he didn't have the weapons that OU or Florida does. It should be a wash.
I read an editorial where the writer said it's easier for a team to prepare to defend against one guy, instead of an entire backfield, and he was still pretty much unstoppable. I don't think it's "punishment" for bradford, but would he have been as successful if he didn't have a 2000 yard backfield? If all teams had to focus on was him? We already know he doesn't run.

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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 09:40 PM
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not knocking McCoy because I can't stand him and the hype he gets, but it is debatable wither or not he is a better athlete than Bradford. They were actually talking during the Mizzou game how Bradford is an exceptional athlete, he has a +1 handicap in Golf and averaged 20+ for his prep basketball team. He reminds me of Romo, where he just gets it and when he does something, he does well at it. They made it sound like everything he touches turns to Gold. Not that it does, but I just get the impression that if he had to be the one man show like McCoy, he could do it. I might give you the better Leader in McCoy, he does have a years more experience and he is the go to guy of the team, but I am sure Bradford is right up there with him.

But your points about McCoy just reiterate what I was saying, the Heisman isn't supposed to be an MVP vote. Just because his team would be nowhere without him does not mean he is the "most outstanding college football player". Sure it is a byproduct, but on the other hand, you can be the "most outstanding football player" and your team could still succeed without you. The MVP angle is being played by McCoy voters because the angle works. Next year, they will use a different argument for a different person. The Heisman has one definition, but the voting is not based on that definition. That is why you don't see any more Heisman winners excel in the NFL, because they just aren't as good as everyone tries to make them out to be.

Anyway, I do agree with you about Tebow. He is getting Hype because of his team, and because of last year, not what he has done this year. Harrell has had a more outstanding year than him, and I don't think Harrell is a product of the system. He didn't set records in High School (I think, or he was a highly sought after recruit by a lot of school) because he was in Tech's offense.
I agree with about all that you are saying. I've said before, and I'll say it again. I don't think there is a better pocket passer anywhere in college football than Bradford. No one, period. He even worked hard in the offseason at throwing on the run, and you can see it too. I'll still give McCoy the edge at throwing on the run as that is where he's more comfortable and that's the offense they run. As for the better athlete, Bradford may be on the basketball court and on the golf course -- I have no idea if McCoy can even bounce a ball. On the football field, Colt is faster and stronger. That helicopter highlight for Bradford is nice, but replay the one where McCoy ran over a linebacker to get into the end zone earlier this year. Bradford won't and can't do that.

The award should go to the most outstanding player, and you're right, typically it doesn't (see Vince Young the year they won it all). You are also correct in that you shouldn't penalize a player based on his team and the talent around him. Honestly, I think Bradford and McCoy are a wash this year. I think the two of them should have 100% of the votes for 1st place. You can't even use head to head to separate them because BOTH QB's were great in that game. If you say that McCoy brought his team from behind in the 4th, you have to look at the fact Bradford threw for 5 TD's. What else does he need to do to win? Play safety? Neither QB had a "bad" game either. McCoy was good and played well enough to win including another comeback against TT. The only separating thing I could see anyone using is the fact that McCoy had to do more for his team, and he did it. It's unfair to penalize Bradford for that, but it's also unfair not to reward McCoy for it. Honestly, and this is coming from a huge UT fan, they ought to hand both of them the award and call it the first ever tie. Sorry Tebow peeps, he's a great player, but he's not worth of the Heisman this year, not with what Bradford, McCoy, and even Harrell have done.

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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Vertnut
I read an editorial where the writer said it's easier for a team to prepare to defend against one guy, instead of an entire backfield, and he was still pretty much unstoppable. I don't think it's "punishment" for bradford, but would he have been as successful if he didn't have a 2000 yard backfield? If all teams had to focus on was him? We already know he doesn't run.
It's not fair to punish Bradford, but it's not fair either to not reward McCoy. To answer your question though, yes, Bradford would have been just as successful throwing it even more. He's outstanding in the pocket, and that 310+ pound average O-line with all those receivers allow him to stand there and destroy people.

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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 10:27 PM
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I'm not whining. I thought Texas was going to lose 3 or 4 games this year. Just making it to a BCS game is good enough for me this season. I can promise you that nothing about TT keeps me up at night.

But on that note, enjoy the Cotton Bowl and being the red-headed step child of the Big 12 South.
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some times they slap back enjoy the chip bowl... oh well at least harrell got something for his trouble Johnny Unitas Award

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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ZYouL8R
I'm not whining. I thought Texas was going to lose 3 or 4 games this year. Just making it to a BCS game is good enough for me this season. I can promise you that nothing about TT keeps me up at night.

But on that note, enjoy the Cotton Bowl and being the red-headed step child of the Big 12 South.
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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 11:34 PM
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39-33...
Haha, reinforcing that red headed step child image I see. Even the moron horns fans on here have stopped with the "45-35" shit.
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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 11:41 PM
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You tech fans are fucking idiots. You think tech had a great football team. As I recall tech went to overtime against Nebraska, and beat baylor by a touchdown where most of the game tech was trailing Baylor. Oh yeah great fucking team. Hell tech fans are just as bad as A&M fans when they beat Texas. They think they won the national championship or something.
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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 12:18 AM
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Bradford for Heisman
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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 04:40 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Juiceweezl
It's not fair to punish Bradford, but it's not fair either to not reward McCoy. To answer your question though, yes, Bradford would have been just as successful throwing it even more. He's outstanding in the pocket, and that 310+ pound average O-line with all those receivers allow him to stand there and destroy people.
I heartily disagree. A defense that can pin it's ears back on every down, is a pure passers' nightmare. To each his own...

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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 04:48 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stacy532
39-33
some times they slap back enjoy the chip bowl... oh well at least harrell got something for his trouble Johnny Unitas Award
Where as A&M has become the "new Baylor", Tech is stepping up to fill the slot of the "new A&M", by making UT the focal point of a successful season.
McCoy is also a finalist for the Maxwell Award, the Davey O'brien award, and of course, the Heisman. There probably wouldn't be room in the trophy case for the Johnny U. award anyway.

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post #31 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 08:27 AM
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That is the thing with having other weapons, we don't know if Bradford could play like McCoy because he didn't have to. Nobody thought McCoy could play like McCoy did this year, until this year when he had to do it all himself. It is neither here nor there though, both had great seasons, both play a little different style ball, and one of them is coming home with the hardware.
We hope one of them. It would be another injustice if Tebow wins it. Like I say, I think you can flilp a coin with Bradford and McCoy. The only reason I say McCoy (not because I'm a UT guy) is using criteria that is not what the Heisman is supposed to be about -- who means more to the team. Other than that, I don't have anything to separate them. What a season we were treated to this year, huh?

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post #32 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 09:10 AM
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We hope one of them. It would be another injustice if Tebow wins it. Like I say, I think you can flilp a coin with Bradford and McCoy. The only reason I say McCoy (not because I'm a UT guy) is using criteria that is not what the Heisman is supposed to be about -- who means more to the team. Other than that, I don't have anything to separate them. What a season we were treated to this year, huh?
that is a bad arguement, because UF isn't shit without tebow, OU doesn't score 60+ with out bradford, UT doesn't score 45+ with out mccoy. All three are important to their team winning

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post #33 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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that is a bad arguement, because UF isn't shit without tebow, OU doesn't score 60+ with out bradford, UT doesn't score 45+ with out mccoy. All three are important to their team winning
It may be a "bad" argument, but that's what it boils down too.

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post #34 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 09:17 AM
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I think he might have lost then.
lmao... I hope Colt wins

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post #35 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badass2000gt
You tech fans are fucking idiots. You think tech had a great football team. As I recall tech went to overtime against Nebraska, and beat baylor by a touchdown where most of the game tech was trailing Baylor. Oh yeah great fucking team. Hell tech fans are just as bad as A&M fans when they beat Texas. They think they won the national championship or something.
If our team sucks that bad then what does that say about UT? Nice sports point.

OU is the strongest team in the Big 12 and deserves to be where they are. I wish it was settled in a playoff and we could get rid of this BS, but that is not going to happen anytime soon.
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post #36 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 04:41 PM
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I was listening to Norm on the Ticket yesterday and he was going off on the fact that Harrell was not atleast invitited. He swore he would not use the name Heisman for 1 year and would refer to it as Preparation H.....LOLz
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post #37 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.8 STANG



Don't think I ever denied Tech beat UT. Like I said, Tech will always be Tech. They're good for one big win a year but in the end, usually end up disappointing in one way or another. Once again, enjoy the Cotton Bowl and that January 2nd, 1pm national audience. I'm sure all 5 people watching will be impressed with TT.

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post #38 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 10:25 PM
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and texas will always be texas were number one and shit , oh wait you were number one for a while in there but someone stopped that some typical west texas team its all good we went 11-1 you guys did too i say great season , and good luck in the chip bowl...

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13.27 at 102.83 6123' air ... in shop getting procharged d1sc canfield heads etc etc
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post #39 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badass2000gt
You tech fans are fucking idiots. You think tech had a great football team. As I recall tech went to overtime against Nebraska, and beat baylor by a touchdown where most of the game tech was trailing Baylor. Oh yeah great fucking team. Hell tech fans are just as bad as A&M fans when they beat Texas. They think they won the national championship or something.
and you guys struggled with baylor the first half and almost lost to oklahoma state which we beat up on , come on guys we could have scored more on baylor but i say screw style points... and we were texas state champions name one texas team that beat us?

1995 cobra bolt ons red with black cloth 1.76 60'


13.27 at 102.83 6123' air ... in shop getting procharged d1sc canfield heads etc etc
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post #40 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stacy532
and you guys struggled with baylor the first half and almost lost to oklahoma state which we beat up on , come on guys we could have scored more on baylor but i say screw style points... and we were texas state champions name one texas team that beat us?
28-14 at half with Baylor is a "struggle"? I think Baylor played that tough against Tech until later in the game, 35-28, huh? I guess since Tech has beaten Mack Brown twice in 10 years, you can crow a little. Isn't that "Chip Bowl" you're refering too, a BCS bowl game? It's better than "pickin' cotton"...

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
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post #41 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut
28-14 at half with Baylor is a "struggle"? I think Baylor played that tough against Tech until later in the game, 35-28, huh? I guess since Tech has beaten Mack Brown twice in 10 years, you can crow a little. Isn't that "Chip Bowl" you're refering too, a BCS bowl game? It's better than "pickin' cotton"...
yes it is bcs but im not going to whine about us not being in the bcs , just take what they give ya... and baylor was not a push over team this year hell they beat up a&m and almost beat mizzu... we could have scored to make it a 42 to 28 win but for what? we started flat that game ...like you guys did against us... they might be in a bowl next year...good luck texas fans no hard feelings here...

1995 cobra bolt ons red with black cloth 1.76 60'


13.27 at 102.83 6123' air ... in shop getting procharged d1sc canfield heads etc etc
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