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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-22-2006, 03:38 PM Thread Starter
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are quarterbacks too protected by the rules?

After just seeing a penalty called for roughing the passer "going low into the legs" or some such shit I'd like to rant a little. It seems like you're not even allowed to sack quarterbacks anymore. Football is a goddamn full contact sport, quarterbacks may wear red jerseys at practice but in games they should be hit just as hard as anyone else. I'd also like to say the horse collar rule is a crock of shit as well. thank you.
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-22-2006, 10:38 PM
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I agree completely. These rules are producing pussy assed quarterbacks that can't take a good hit without bleeding internally yet giving them the notion that they can continue to play far past their prime without severe brain damage. I don't like Drew Bledsoe, either.


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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-22-2006, 11:36 PM
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I agree completely. These rules are producing pussy assed quarterbacks that can't take a good hit without bleeding internally yet giving them the notion that they can continue to play far past their prime without severe brain damage. I don't like Drew Bledsoe, either.
Shieeeeet, did you see the hit that Manning took today? He took it like a champ and continued to kick ass.

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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 11:45 AM
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LMAO!

Football is a full contact sport but, it doesn't give a 285lb lowland gorilla the right to take a 185lb QB and pile drive his ass to the ground and rupture his spleen, Sims could have been killed, seriously. In any other full contact sport (boxing, karate, UFC, etc.) there are weight classes to make it fair, only in football do you not have these rules. It should be an unspoken rule, kinda of like not lighting up the kicker, everyone knows he has no pads for protection and probably isn't going to get in on a dog pile, he kicks and goes to the sidelines, most of the time...'H'

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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 11:51 AM
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Shieeeeet, did you see the hit that Manning took today? He took it like a champ and continued to kick ass.
no joke! his back looked all sorts of twisted up!
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Shorty
After just seeing a penalty called for roughing the passer "going low into the legs" or some such shit I'd like to rant a little. It seems like you're not even allowed to sack quarterbacks anymore. Football is a goddamn full contact sport, quarterbacks may wear red jerseys at practice but in games they should be hit just as hard as anyone else. I'd also like to say the horse collar rule is a crock of shit as well. thank you.
Have you ever been a QB, I was in highschool and I can tell you nothing is worse than throwing a pass then getting blind sided after the player happened 3-5 seconds (or 3-4 steps for def players) ago by a linebacker 25 lbs and 2 inches bigger who is trying to hurt you. I didn't realize football was a game a let's hurt all the other teams really good players so we can win with cheap shots.
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 02:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BOOSTED32V
LMAO!

Football is a full contact sport but, it doesn't give a 285lb lowland gorilla the right to take a 185lb QB and pile drive his ass to the ground and rupture his spleen, Sims could have been killed, seriously. In any other full contact sport (boxing, karate, UFC, etc.) there are weight classes to make it fair, only in football do you not have these rules. It should be an unspoken rule, kinda of like not lighting up the kicker, everyone knows he has no pads for protection and probably isn't going to get in on a dog pile, he kicks and goes to the sidelines, most of the time...'H'
I agree.

There are some questionable calls, but hell... that happens on both sides of the ball to both teams.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pro Trash
Have you ever been a QB, I was in highschool and I can tell you nothing is worse than throwing a pass then getting blind sided after the player happened 3-5 seconds (or 3-4 steps for def players) ago by a linebacker 25 lbs and 2 inches bigger who is trying to hurt you. I didn't realize football was a game a let's hurt all the other teams really good players so we can win with cheap shots.
I was a speed rush defensive end
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BOOSTED32V
LMAO!

Football is a full contact sport but, it doesn't give a 285lb lowland gorilla the right to take a 185lb QB and pile drive his ass to the ground and rupture his spleen, Sims could have been killed, seriously. In any other full contact sport (boxing, karate, UFC, etc.) there are weight classes to make it fair, only in football do you not have these rules. It should be an unspoken rule, kinda of like not lighting up the kicker, everyone knows he has no pads for protection and probably isn't going to get in on a dog pile, he kicks and goes to the sidelines, most of the time...'H'
I'm not saying that doesn't make sense....but I'm sure you'll whoop and holler when Roy Williams lays out a receiver who's going up for a ball. I don't see recievers or running backs taking big hits any different than a qb. There are plenty of big qb's and plenty of small rb's.
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 04:51 PM
 
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when will we hear about VY in here? it seems to be past due.
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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 04:54 PM
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when will we hear about VY in here? it seems to be past due.
Because hes learning quick that the NFL is a whole 'nother world.

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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Shorty
I was a speed rush defensive end
Well then you know what you used to try to do, usually before you got ran over by one of the backs, LOL. I played Def End in JV and got hit by a running back so hard one night I jogged over to the oppossing sideline and sat down after the play LOL
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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 05:23 PM
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Well then you know what you used to try to do, usually before you got ran over by one of the backs, LOL. I played Def End in JV and got hit by a running back so hard one night I jogged over to the oppossing sideline and sat down after the play LOL



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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-23-2006, 06:31 PM
 
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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-24-2006, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by BOOSTED32V
LMAO!

Football is a full contact sport but, it doesn't give a 285lb lowland gorilla the right to take a 185lb QB and pile drive his ass to the ground and rupture his spleen, Sims could have been killed, seriously. In any other full contact sport (boxing, karate, UFC, etc.) there are weight classes to make it fair, only in football do you not have these rules. It should be an unspoken rule, kinda of like not lighting up the kicker, everyone knows he has no pads for protection and probably isn't going to get in on a dog pile, he kicks and goes to the sidelines, most of the time...'H'

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post #16 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-24-2006, 08:19 AM
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post #17 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-24-2006, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro Trash
Have you ever been a QB, I was in highschool and I can tell you nothing is worse than throwing a pass then getting blind sided after the player happened 3-5 seconds (or 3-4 steps for def players) ago by a linebacker 25 lbs and 2 inches bigger who is trying to hurt you. I didn't realize football was a game a let's hurt all the other teams really good players so we can win with cheap shots.

well, I will be honest when I played, all I wanted to do was hit the other team as hard as I could, not to hurt them but put fear into them about trying to run the ball up the middle or when I got a shot at the qb I let it all out on him, never a cheap shot though. the only cheap shot i ever got, which I wasn't trying to, I hit a rb on my own team in practice. as he was jumping I was going for the hit and slammed his knee, last time i saw him about 5 yrs ago, he still limps . but he was also using steriods heavily in high school, so that might have been more of why then just my hit.
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post #18 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-24-2006, 09:25 AM
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post #19 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-24-2006, 10:03 AM
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post #20 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-24-2006, 11:10 AM
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No problems with protecting the QBs, especially considering that if a Chris Simms like injury happened to Philly, New Orleans or even the Colt's their franchise would be in the dark for multiple seasons.

Now I don't agree with how much protection the kickers get. Sure, you don't need to level the poor guy but if you even touch his leg when it's coming down you get a penalty and they get a first down. Personally I'd love to see a guy like Vanderjagt get levelled a couple of times a season, it might be good for his attitude.

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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-25-2006, 10:25 AM
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THAT'S what's wrong with you, i knew it.
Yeah I got hit on the field, where as your momma dropped you "oh" about 7 or 8 times a day on your head as a baby, even trade I think.
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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-25-2006, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by BOOSTED32V
LMAO!

Football is a full contact sport but, it doesn't give a 285lb lowland gorilla the right to take a 185lb QB and pile drive his ass to the ground and rupture his spleen, Sims could have been killed, seriously. In any other full contact sport (boxing, karate, UFC, etc.) there are weight classes to make it fair, only in football do you not have these rules. It should be an unspoken rule, kinda of like not lighting up the kicker, everyone knows he has no pads for protection and probably isn't going to get in on a dog pile, he kicks and goes to the sidelines, most of the time...'H'

They might as well just ditch the pads and play two-below.

If a kicker doesn't want to get hit, he needs to get his ass off the field as quickjly as possible. If he stays out there to be a safety and might end up making the tackle on a return, he's asking to get lit up FULL FORCE by someone on the other team coming down to block.

Cheap shots, like late hits, are uncalled for, and should always call for a penalty. But other than those kind of sitautions, the QB deserves no extra protection. That's what the offensive line is for.
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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-25-2006, 10:51 AM
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Remeber last season when Sapp leveled that guy that wasent looking? That was uncalled for and should not be allowed. QB's need to be hit but not blind sided. Then again did anyone see Romo just kinda fall to the ground like a girl? I wanted to see him get pounded after that. It was unbelievable.

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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-25-2006, 12:14 PM
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Remeber last season when Sapp leveled that guy that wasent looking? That was uncalled for and should not be allowed. QB's need to be hit but not blind sided. Then again did anyone see Romo just kinda fall to the ground like a girl? I wanted to see him get pounded after that. It was unbelievable.

Did the QB have the ball? If so, there isn't a damn thing wrong with blind-siding him and hitting him with everything you've got. That's the kind of thing a rusher lives for.
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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-25-2006, 01:19 PM
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Remeber last season when Sapp leveled that guy that wasent looking? That was uncalled for and should not be allowed. QB's need to be hit but not blind sided. Then again did anyone see Romo just kinda fall to the ground like a girl? I wanted to see him get pounded after that. It was unbelievable.
I don't mind the blind side tackles too much as long as they aren't driving their helmet into the QBs helmet, taking his legs out, etc. Nice, form tackle, I'm all for it.

I also think the coach should make the OLman that allowed his opponent through give the QB a part of his salary.

The QBs these days have more kevlar than a bullet proof car. Their protected.

Long gone are the days when QBs like Stabler played with 2 broken ribs and still stood up in the pocket. Or Aikman and his one million concussions.

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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-25-2006, 01:43 PM
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I don't mind the blind side tackles too much as long as they aren't driving their helmet into the QBs helmet, taking his legs out, etc. Nice, form tackle, I'm all for it.
Personally, I think helmet on helmet contact should only be a penalty when the tackler leads and stirkes with his helmet intentionally. This should be called regardless of who he tackles, and regardless of where the helmet hits. It's called spearing. Honestly, putting your head down and trying to strike it against the QB's head doesn't make for a good solid tackle compared to putting the shoulder on the numbers and wrapping up. The problem I see in games now is that players are making good sacks, and getting called for penalties because helmets simply touched. I don't see it being so hard to discriminate between a player who makes a great hit and a player who comes in trying to ram heads. I just think the league/refs have adopted a zero-tolerance policy, and that softens the game.
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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-25-2006, 02:18 PM
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Honestly, putting your head down and trying to strike it against the QB's head doesn't make for a good solid tackle compared to putting the shoulder on the numbers and wrapping up.
Nah... a good tackle is leading your head directly into the middle of the numbers, wrapping up and body slamming the foo.

When you put the shoulder into the numbers your force is at a glancing angle (force going to the opposite of the shoulder, i.e. if hitting with your right shoulder your force is glancing to the left) which gives the opponent some outs to the tackle (i.e. spinning out to the opposite side).

Head up, lead directly into the middle of the chest and run through the ball carrier, as you wrap your arms around him, pull the ball carrier into yourself.

Strongest man wins. Probably the biggest key is running through the ball carrier. I still see alot of college teams pull up when the initial contact is made. Pussies.

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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-25-2006, 02:32 PM
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Nah... a good tackle is leading your head directly into the middle of the numbers, wrapping up and body slamming the foo.

When you put the shoulder into the numbers your force is at a glancing angle (force going to the opposite of the shoulder, i.e. if hitting with your right shoulder your force is glancing to the left) which gives the opponent some outs to the tackle (i.e. spinning out to the opposite side).

Head up, lead directly into the middle of the chest and run through the ball carrier, as you wrap your arms around him, pull the ball carrier into yourself.

Strongest man wins. Probably the biggest key is running through the ball carrier. I still see alot of college teams pull up when the initial contact is made. Pussies.
Different techniques, both effective, and both of which I've been taught at various levels. I find it easier to deliver a crushing blow with the shoulder as apposed to leading with the head and risking neck injury. I have big shoulders and long arms, and wrapping up has never been an issue. I agree about running through the ball carrier, too.

The thing that furstrates me the most, even at the professional level, is arm tackles. That's why I like Roy Williams. A lot of DBs try to stick their wet noodles out and wrap up without any solid stick at all. It just doesn't work. Then you also have the guys that hit hard but don't wrap up, and virtually all of the really good backs and receivers in the league will jsut roll with the hit, bounce off, and keep on going.
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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-25-2006, 02:54 PM
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Different techniques, both effective,

Probably as effective (and certainly better than arm tackles!), was taught up through college..square up as best you can, face mask to the middle, drive through ball carrier and pull in.

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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-25-2006, 03:56 PM
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Probably as effective (and certainly better than arm tackles!), was taught up through college..square up as best you can, face mask to the middle, drive through ball carrier and pull in.
Then there is the rule for tackling guys much bigger and stronger - go for the legs. I don't normally have to worry about that, but a tall, lean, 180 lb DB trying to bring down a short, stocky, 240 lb running back... it might be his only chance. Still, bring the body and not just an arm, and aim higher than the shoestrings. I do enjoy seeing diving defenders get hurdled, though.

In Peewee the coaches taught us to only tackle that way. Go for the knees every single time. It was ruthless. I also clearly remember playing defensive end back then (10 yrs old), and my only resposibility was to go for the QB on very single play. Forget outside contain. Forget bumping the tight end to thwart his route or keep him from bee-lining the backer. Ball snaps, go get the QB. The inside backers were taught just to hit the runnning back(s), and the tackles just shot gaps. Outside backers had contain, and we used two safetys backed up WAY off the line who would guard against passes and come up for tackles if needed. So simple, and very effective against the run. We dominated other teams, except for one (Forest Hill) that actually had a strong passing game. They had dudes on that team though that were 6 foot tall and had facial hair and tattoos, I swear! Our offense also ran the option about 75% of the time. I miss those days... but I digress.
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post #31 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-25-2006, 11:00 PM
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Probably as effective (and certainly better than arm tackles!), was taught up through college..square up as best you can, face mask to the middle, drive through ball carrier and pull in.
that is how we were taught to tackle as well. but I am big guy so if got to hit them most of the time they went down.
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post #32 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-25-2006, 11:16 PM
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To a point they are overprotected but say they are looking down field and just let go of the ball on a throw and a guy comes in at the knee like what happened to Palmer. There is no way for them to brace themselves or protect themselves so i think they should be protected.

Now if you look at when Cin. got a roughing the passer penalty on a sack then I also agree there needs to be more leniance on the calls. It is something that is hard to catagorize as black and white, because of the different circumstances from play to play.
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post #33 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-26-2006, 12:11 AM
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you can thank dan marino for most of these rules when don shula was on the NFL rules he was trying to protect his last chance at a super bowl. he knew that marino couldn't run and wanted to protect him as much as he could.
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post #34 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-26-2006, 09:12 AM
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To a point they are overprotected but say they are looking down field and just let go of the ball on a throw and a guy comes in at the knee like what happened to Palmer. There is no way for them to brace themselves or protect themselves so i think they should be protected.
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post #35 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-26-2006, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jluv
Did the QB have the ball? If so, there isn't a damn thing wrong with blind-siding him and hitting him with everything you've got. That's the kind of thing a rusher lives for.
No it was just a lineman on a kickoff, guy never saw it comeing and Sapp just layed him out nasty when he didnt have to. It was no where near the play. I agree, if the guy has the ball its fair game.

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post #36 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-26-2006, 02:52 PM
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... the whole game is going wuss. IF you wanna be a quarterback, and don't have enough sense to get rid of the ball before you get killed, then I can't help ya.
If you wanna hang in there and make that special pass and you are willing to take a hit for it, then I can't help ya. If there is someone grabbing at your legs and you don't feel compelled to move around before you get rolled up, then I'm afraid we won't be able to come up with enough rules to protect ya.

At $10,000,000 per year, you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that you have been unfairly treated when you get hit from time to time.

Besides, has anyone EVER heard of a PRO quarterback complaining about needing more protection in the rulebook?

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post #37 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-26-2006, 02:56 PM
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... the whole game is going wuss. IF you wanna be a quarterback, and don't have enough sense to get rid of the ball before you get killed, then I can't help ya.
If you wanna hang in there and make that special pass and you are willing to take a hit for it, then I can't help ya. If there is someone grabbing at your legs and you don't feel compelled to move around before you get rolled up, then I'm afraid we won't be able to come up with enough rules to protect ya.

At $10,000,000 per year, you'd have a hard time convincing anyone that you have been unfairly treated when you get hit from time to time.

Besides, has anyone EVER heard of a PRO quarterback complaining about needing more protection in the rulebook?
I'm sure they do, and you know the coach whines like a turbo spooling.

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post #38 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-26-2006, 03:54 PM
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Because hes learning quick that the NFL is a whole 'nother world.

agreed...dumbass should have finished school. It's not like the NFL was going anywhere in a year. LOL

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