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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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Bonds ties Babe Ruth @ 714 HR's

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns



About time with all the hype/talk.

Last edited by SVTVenom; 05-20-2006 at 02:56 PM.
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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 03:12 PM
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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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Have a test that proves it? Nope, didn't think so.
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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 03:18 PM
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Screw Bonds, I have no respect for him.
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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 03:21 PM
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Screw Bonds, I have no respect for him.
Me neither. Urinate on that sewing accident.


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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTVenom
Have a test that proves it? Nope, didn't think so.
Apparently all of America doesn't either.
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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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Apparently all of America doesn't either.
So why make accusations without proof? Thats what a fool does.
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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 04:03 PM
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seems like a fool would ignore the obvious but thats just me...

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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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seems like a fool would ignore the obvious but thats just me...
Until someone comes with hard, solid proof it is nothing but speculation.
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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 04:24 PM
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTVenom
Until someone comes with hard, solid proof it is nothing but speculation.
Until someone takes a hard, solid, unbiased test, observation is plenty of proof.

Let me administer the test, and you'll have your answers.


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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
Until someone takes a hard, solid, unbiased test, observation is plenty of proof.

Let me administer the test, and you'll have your answers.
Lemme get Bud and the MLBPA on the red phone line and I'll see what I can do.

If observation is enough to incriminate then I present you Albert Pujols and his 20 HR's in 42 games.
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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 04:36 PM
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i saw it on sportscenter... i think its awesome, regardless of the roids or not, i played baseball and roids doesnt give you the ability to hit a 100mph fastball...




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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 04:43 PM
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When Pujols's head swells to the size of one of Jupiter's moons, you might have a point.


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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
When Pujols's head swells to the size of one of Jupiter's moons, you might have a point.
A person's head/body size is not a scientifically proven way to judge whether or not someone is on steroids. Thats speculation.
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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 04:48 PM
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A person's head/body size is not a scientifically proven way to judge whether or not someone is on steroids. Thats speculation.
The MLB test for steroids is also not a scientifically-proven way to judge whether or not someone is on steroids.


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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
When Pujols's head swells to the size of one of Jupiter's moons, you might have a point.
lmao
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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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The MLB test for steroids is also not a scientifically-proven way to judge whether or not someone is on steroids.
I'm not sure if it is up to WADA standards, but if it is up to those standards then I would say you are wrong.
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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Prez
regardless of the roids or not, i played baseball and roids doesnt give you the ability to hit a 100mph fastball...
i agree and nobody is argueing that fact... but when you already have the natural ability to hit a 100MPH fastball, add in the roids and it only helps you to hit that ball farther. that's the issue with MLB as well as with the Ruth family. he'll have his numbers, but bond's as well as all of the other people in denial are going to have to get used to seeing one of these * next to his name. McGuire needs one next to his name for the single season HR record as well. i'm a baseball purist and i'll never recognize bonds' or mcguire's records.

but i'm just one person... so who the fuck cares.

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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by openroadracer3
i agree and nobody is argueing that fact... but when you already have the natural ability to hit a 100MPH fastball, add in the roids and it only helps you to hit that ball farther. that's the issue with MLB as well as with the Ruth family. he'll have his numbers, but bond's as well as all of the other people in denial are going to have to get used to seeing one of these * next to his name. McGuire needs one next to his name for the single season HR record as well. i'm a baseball purist and i'll never recognize bonds' or mcguire's records.

but i'm just one person... so who the fuck cares.
i was thinking exacty what you said...

you may not recognize it, but your just one person, so who gives a fuck...




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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 05:19 PM
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i was thinking exacty what you said...

you may not recognize it, but your just one person, so who gives a fuck...


nice disclaimer, eh?

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post #21 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Da Prez
i saw it on sportscenter... i think its awesome, regardless of the roids or not, i played baseball and roids doesnt give you the ability to hit a 100mph fastball...
very true

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post #22 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by openroadracer3
i agree and nobody is argueing that fact... but when you already have the natural ability to hit a 100MPH fastball, add in the roids and it only helps you to hit that ball farther. that's the issue with MLB as well as with the Ruth family. he'll have his numbers, but bond's as well as all of the other people in denial are going to have to get used to seeing one of these * next to his name. McGuire needs one next to his name for the single season HR record as well. i'm a baseball purist and i'll never recognize bonds' or mcguire's records.

but i'm just one person... so who the fuck cares.
and another thing...

yes the roids probably do make the ball travel farther, but im sure most of the balls he hits cleanly were gonna be homeruns anyway... the roid just put the ball on the upper deck...




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post #23 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by That_Is_My_El_Camino
When Pujols's head swells to the size of one of Jupiter's moons, you might have a point.
barry was just a late bloomer is all.
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post #24 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 10:26 PM
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A person's head/body size is not a scientifically proven way to judge whether or not someone is on steroids. Thats speculation.
It's not speculaltion, it's a scientific/medical fact that someones head cannot grow in there natural adult yrs unless..

1. Tumor
2. Growth Hermones..


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post #25 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-20-2006, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
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It's not speculaltion, it's a scientific/medical fact that someones head cannot grow in there natural adult yrs unless..

1. Tumor
2. Growth Hermones..


P.S. *
Show me where an actual certified medical doctor has said or will state that.

P.S. You can take that asterik and shove it because there isn't going to be one on anyone's records. Baseball has had enough trouble and won't cause anymore by going back and placing asteriks on McGwire, Sosa, Palmero, etc.
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post #26 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 12:05 AM
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and another thing...

yes the roids probably do make the ball travel farther, but im sure most of the balls he hits cleanly were gonna be homeruns anyway... the roid just put the ball on the upper deck...
Thats probably the most valid point to the whole damn thing...

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post #27 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 12:14 AM
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Screw Bonds, I have no respect for him.
u have no respect for him...why? You jealous?. Steroids or not he hit a shit load of home runs. He was one of the best ball players in MLB for many, many years. There has yet to be one POSITIVE steroid test. Could you play in the major leagues? NO! Steroids have been around for years, hell for all we know Aaron could have been on 'roids. The testing back then was almost non-exsistent. Just cause you're not huge, does not mean you do not take steroids. Look at Palmero or some of the picthers who have been caught. They were caught, taking "performance enhancers," and there not giants. Saying you have no respect for him is ignorant. But....whatever

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post #28 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SVTVenom
If observation is enough to incriminate then I present you Albert Pujols and his 20 HR's in 42 games.
AP has been that size since he has been in the league.....


also i cant stand barry bonds..i would much rather be watching Griffey Jr do it than that fuck stick

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post #29 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 08:29 AM
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u have no respect for him...why? You jealous?. Steroids or not he hit a shit load of home runs. He was one of the best ball players in MLB for many, many years. There has yet to be one POSITIVE steroid test. Could you play in the major leagues? NO! Steroids have been around for years, hell for all we know Aaron could have been on 'roids. The testing back then was almost non-exsistent. Just cause you're not huge, does not mean you do not take steroids. Look at Palmero or some of the picthers who have been caught. They were caught, taking "performance enhancers," and there not giants. Saying you have no respect for him is ignorant. But....whatever
Ignorant, whatever. Did I mention Roids, no I don't think so. I didn't like him before the whole Steroids thing came up. I had my kids around him after a game years ago and he is a total asshole. That leaves a bitter taste. Listen to him, he doesn't even enjoy the game anymore, it's just work. Socially he's a jerk. Personally, is he talented, yes, worthy of being in the same class as Aaron & Ruth, hell no. Until then I going to cheer for my man Springer, because he reflects the attitute of many of the players in MLB toward Bonds, and that is a lack of respect!
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post #30 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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AP has been that size since he has been in the league.....


also i cant stand barry bonds..i would much rather be watching Griffey Jr do it than that fuck stick
Again, steroids do not always equal someone blowing up in size. That is dependant upon body type/genetics.
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post #31 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 10:01 AM
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and another thing...

yes the roids probably do make the ball travel farther, but im sure most of the balls he hits cleanly were gonna be homeruns anyway... the roid just put the ball on the upper deck...
He's 40 and is in better shape than most NFL running backs. He had a fantastic career up until he was 35, when most players start to taper off. Then all of a sudden after McGwire and Sosa had their steroid battle he just explodes and annihilates their numbers.

I'm still looking for that face muscle machine at the gym btw.

Either he was on roids or he's a freak of nature and needs to be entombed in the Smithsonian.

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post #32 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 10:10 AM
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I saw something on espn the other night, and they said that Ruth should have around 800 homeruns. Back when Ruth played it didnt matter if the ball stayed inside of the foul pole. It depends if it landed inside the foul pole. They said the Ruth hit as much as 90 homeruns that stayed inside the foul pole while the ball is still in the air but when the ball landed it was outside of the foul pole and didnt count it.
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post #33 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 10:25 AM
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I watched some of that "Bonds on Bonds" crap on ESPN last night. He seems like a very arrogant (too arrogant) and self-centered guy. It's one thing to be confident about yourself; it's another for you to be your own number-one fan and kiss your own ass.

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post #34 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SVTVenom
Lemme get Bud and the MLBPA on the red phone line and I'll see what I can do.

If observation is enough to incriminate then I present you Albert Pujols and his 20 HR's in 42 games.

Albert Pujols is the same size now as he was when he came in the league. Barry Bond's head is 2 hat sizes bigger now than when his skinny ass came into the league. Albert Pujols hasn't been associated with anyone involved with Steroids. Barry Bonds on the other hand has several people around him that were involved. Trainers, doctors, associates, etc Come on? Bonds "I didn't know what my trainer was putting that stuff in my drinks." If you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.
The guy was a client of Victor Conte.

Pujols on the other hand has been a badass in baseball since day one. His junior year in high school he hit .660. Thats fucking amazing. In fact, parents often mistook Pujols for an adult on the field, as opposed to a high school kid.
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post #35 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 06:41 PM
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Again, steroids do not always equal someone blowing up in size. That is dependant upon body type/genetics.

The human skull does not grow once you reach adult hood...unless of course you are taking HGH. But you keep ignoring this fact.

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post #36 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 06:53 PM
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no respect at all for him. He doesnt deserve it. I wont celebrate for him, i cant be haoppy for him at all.

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post #37 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-21-2006, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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Albert Pujols is the same size now as he was when he came in the league. Barry Bond's head is 2 hat sizes bigger now than when his skinny ass came into the league. Albert Pujols hasn't been associated with anyone involved with Steroids. Barry Bonds on the other hand has several people around him that were involved. Trainers, doctors, associates, etc Come on? Bonds "I didn't know what my trainer was putting that stuff in my drinks." If you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.
The guy was a client of Victor Conte.

Pujols on the other hand has been a badass in baseball since day one. His junior year in high school he hit .660. Thats fucking amazing. In fact, parents often mistook Pujols for an adult on the field, as opposed to a high school kid.
Guilty by association isn't a crime in Bond's situation. Until someone produce's a dirty test, he is legal and the same for Pujols. I'm simply making the same argument used against Bonds on Pujols: Lots of HR's = 'Roids.

People are quick to assume Bonds is dirty, but aren't so quick to do so with other players.

With the whole head size issue, have you actually measured his head to see if it got bigger or not? Know of anyone that has?

Why hate on a guy that has worked hard and has lasted this long? He might be a jerk to most people, but there is no denying that he has put in his time and worked hard for his acomplishments.

I highly doubt that Pujols is the EXACT same weight and height as he came into the league.
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post #38 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 02:41 PM
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He's 40 and is in better shape than most NFL running backs. He had a fantastic career up until he was 35, when most players start to taper off. Then all of a sudden after McGwire and Sosa had their steroid battle he just explodes and annihilates their numbers.


yeah, check out the numbers between 1999 and 2001 and it's hard to conceal.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...DTL&type=chart

The transformation of Barry Bonds



In this excerpt from GAME OF SHADOWS by Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams, the statistical transformation of Barry Bonds after he began steroid use is detailed.
* * *
The transformation that Barry Bonds achieved through the use of
performance-enhancing drugs is reflected in his batting statistics.
Bonds began using steroids before the start of the 1999 season, when
he was 34 years old. His numbers, as compiled by baseball-reference.com,
show that his performance improved dramatically at a time when otherwise
he might have been approaching the end of his career.

Of the five best offensive seasons in Bonds' career, four came after
he was 35 years old - and after 1999, the year he began using steroids.
The historic 2001 season, when he was 36 years old (his age as of
Opening Day), was the best of all - .328 batting average, 73 home runs,
an on-base percentage of .515. But 2002, when he was 37 (.370, 46 HR)
and 2004, when he was 39, (.362, 45 HR) also were excellent seasons for
Bonds, and 2003, when he was 38, was not far off the mark.

In fact, of Bonds' five best seasons, only one came in what is usually
considered a baseball player's prime. That was 1993, before steroids,
when Bonds was 28 years old and playing his first season for the Giants.

Year Age AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG
2001 36 476 129 156 32 2 73 137 177 93 .328 .515 .863
2002 37 403 117 149 31 2 46 110 198 47 .370 .582 .799
2004 39 373 129 135 27 3 45 101 232 41 .362 .609 .812
1993 28 539 129 181 38 4 46 123 126 79 .336 .458 .677
2003 38 390 111 133 22 1 45 90 148 58 .341 .529 .749

Bonds' home run production also increased after he began using steroids.
In his 19-year career (through 2004), Bonds hit 45 or more home runs in
six seasons. Five of those seasons were after 1999 - after age 35, and
after he had begun using performance-enhancing drugs.

Year Age HR
2001 36 73
2000 35 49
2002 37 46
1993 28 46
2004 39 45
2003 38 45

Another measure of Bonds' power surge is home run frequency - the number
of at-bats it took him, on average, to hit each home run. Over the first
13 years of his career - that is, before steroids - he hit a home run
every 16.2 at-bats. His most productive year during that period was 1994,
when he hit a home run every 10.6 at-bats. (Bonds played in 112 of the
Giants' 115 games in 1994, the season that ended in a lockout. He hit 37
home runs in 391 at-bats.)

From 1999 through 2004 - after steroids - the frequency with which Bonds
struck homers nearly doubled, to one every 8.5 at-bats. His best year was
2001, when he hit a home run every 6.5 at-bats.

YR AB/HR
1986 25.8
1987 22.0
1988 22.4
1989 30.5
1990 15.7
1991 20.4
1992 13.9
1993 11.7
1994 10.6
1995 15.3
1996 12.3
1997 13.3
1998 14.9
1999 10.4
2000 9.8
2001 6.5
2002 8.8
2003 8.7
2004 8.3

Before steroids, Bonds was an outstanding player and a likely Hall
of Famer, the numbers affirm. In more than 6,600 at-bats over 13
seasons, he batted .290 and hit 411 homers with 1,216 RBIs. He made
the All-Star team eight times and was selected the National League's
Most Valuable Player in 1990, 1992 and 1993. Had he retired after the
1998 season, he would rank 40th on the all-time home run list, above
Duke Snider. His 1,357 walks would rank 28th.

Using a mathematical average to roll those 13 seasons into a single year,
we see that Bonds, before steroids, hit for average and power and was an
excellent base runner. The composite Bonds year during that period looks
like this:

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP
86-98 146 509 105 147 31 5 32 93 34 10 104 81 .290 .411

But after age 35 - after steroids - Bonds improved his game in most
categories. From 1999 to 2004, he had far better power and drove in and
scored more runs. His batting average increased by an astonishing 38
points, and his on-base percentage soared because of a big increase in
his walk total, which already was high.

At what should have been the end of his baseball career, Bonds became a
significantly better hitter than earlier in his career, as a composite
of those years shows.

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP
99-04 136 413 118 136 27 2 49 105 10 2 158 63 .328 .517

The post-steroids Bonds also became one of the greatest hitters of all time.
Lee Sinins, creator of the Sabermetric Baseball Encyclopedia, used
statistician Bill James' "runs created" formula, a measure of total
batting production, to determine the best offensive performances in
baseball history. As Sinins ran the numbers, Bonds' 73-homer year in
2001 was the second-best offensive season any player has ever had -
second only to Babe Ruth's 1921 season, when the New York Yankees star hit
.378 with 171 RBI.

Year Age AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP RC
RUTH 1921 26 540 177 204 44 16 59 171 145 81 .378 .512 243
BONDS 2001 36 476 129 156 32 2 73 137 177 93 .328 .515 228

Three of Bonds' post-steroids seasons were among the top 10 in baseball
history, according to Sinins' list. Only Ruth had more, with five top-10
seasons.

# Name Year Age Tm BA HR RBI RC
1 RUTH 1921 26 NYY .378 59 171 243
2 BONDS 2001 36 SFG .328 73 137 228
3 RUTH 1923 28 NYY .393 41 131 227
4 RUTH 1920 25 NYY .376 54 137 216
5 GEHRIG 1927 24 NYY .373 47 175 215
6 RUTH 1927 32 NYY .356 60 164 211
6 FOXX 1932 24 PHA .364 58 169 211
8 RUTH 1924 29 NYY .378 46 121 209
9 BONDS 2002 37 SFG .370 46 110 206
10 BONDS 2004 39 SFG .362 45 101 204
10 GEHRIG 1936 33 NYY .354 49 152 204
10 HORNSBY 1922 26 STL .401 42 152 204

Sinins' study also underscores the fact that in baseball terms,
Bonds was an old man when he emerged as one of the greats of the game.

Bonds was 36 when he had his 73-home run season, the first of three seasons
that rank in the top 10; he was 39 in 2004, which Sinins puts as 10th best
of all time, tied with Lou Gehrig's 1936 season for the Yankees and Rogers
Hornsby's efforts for the 1922 Cardinals.

No player was older than 33 when he performed at this high level. (Gehrig was
33 in 1936.) Ruth was 26 in 1921, which Sinins rates as the best season of all
time. The average age of the other players on the top-10 seasons list - along
with Ruth, Gehrig and Hornsby, there is Jimmie Foxx, the old-time Philadelphia
Athletic - was 27.

Yet another measure of Bonds' late-in-life power surge: By the end of 2005,
he had hit more home runs after age 35 than any of the game's great sluggers:

HR 35&UP Total HR %
BONDS 263 708 37
AARON 245 755 32
PALMEIRO 208 569 37
RUTH 198 714 28
JACKSON 153 563 27
MCCOVEY 137 521 26
MCGWIRE 126 583 22
MURRAY 125 504 25
SCHMIDT 123 548 22
MAYS 118 660 18
ROBINSON 111 586 19
BANKS 108 512 21
WILLIAMS 103 521 20
KILLEBREW 86 573 15
SOSA 49 588 8
OTT 48 511 9
MANTLE 40 536 7
MATTHEWS 19 512 4
FOXX 7 534 1

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post #39 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 03:01 PM
BP
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Bonds is one of the greatest players that ever lived, drugs or not. He should be in the record books and until someone proves he juiced by showing a failed test then everyone needs to drop it and appreciate him for what he's doing.

Pete Rose also should be in the hall of fame!

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post #40 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 04:20 PM
RED
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Roids did help Bonds, but not in home runs. They helped keep his body together long enough for him to hit this many. This year we are seeing his body break down like it should have years back.

96 Cobra- "Pinky" slow still.......
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post #41 of 41 (permalink) Old 05-22-2006, 04:37 PM
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Regardless of what he does, his career will always be tainted...just like Pete Rose.

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