12th Man Lawsuit Settled: Seachickens retain title - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-09-2006, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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12th Man Lawsuit Settled: Seachickens retain title






Seahawks and A&M reach deal on 12th man phrase

Seahawks and A&M reach deal on 12th man phrase
May 8, 2006




COLLEGE STATION, Texas (AP) -- The fight over the "12th Man" is over and both Texas A&M and the Seattle Seahawks will be able to use the phrase. Texas A&M and the Seahawks said Monday they had reached a deal settling the university's lawsuit over the nickname for their fans.

As part of the agreement, the Seahawks acknowledge Texas A&M's ownership rights of the trademarked phrase. However, the NFL team may continue using it under license. Neither side admitted any fault or liability.


The Aggies hold a federal trademark rights to "12th Man." They wanted to halt Seattle from using "12th Man" earlier this year.

In February, the university filed a lawsuit in Brazos County over the Seahawks use of the trademark. Days before Seattle faced the Pittsburgh Steelers in the Super Bowl, a restraining order was issued calling on the Seahawks to halt any usage of "12th Man," or "12th Mania."

Origins of the term "12th man" aren't exactly clear, but the traditions in Seattle and College Station date back decades.

The Aggies trace their use to 1922, when an injury-plagued roster led the team to pull E. King Gill from the stands and suited him up to play. Gill never took to the field, but the legend strengthened campus-wide commitment to support the team. The words "Home of 12th Man" adorn the stadium and the entire school is considered the 12th Man.

The Seahawks retired the number 12 in 1984 to honor fans who made the old Kingdome one of the noisiest stadiums in football. It hangs alongside Hall of Fame receiver Steve Largent's No. 80.



Updated on Monday, May 8, 2006 6:36 pm EDT

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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-09-2006, 02:36 PM
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Did I hear a Cha-Ching coming from College Station?
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-09-2006, 02:42 PM
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just wait til some nfl team tries to use the nickname "sheep humpers."
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-09-2006, 02:48 PM
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The gas price threads are more interesting...
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-09-2006, 02:49 PM
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just wait til some nfl team tries to use the nickname "sheep humpers."
UT's gonna get upset aren't they?

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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-09-2006, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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Did I hear a Cha-Ching coming from College Station?


No, that was Dolly the Sheep screaming in anguish, as her pursuers have finally worn the poor thing down......

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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-09-2006, 04:19 PM
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Did I hear a Cha-Ching coming from College Station?



well it damn sure wasn't the roar of the crowd.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 12:46 PM
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As part of the agreement, the Seahawks acknowledge Texas A&M's ownership rights of the trademarked phrase. However, the NFL team may continue using it under license.
Lets see what was it you said about this?.....


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Originally Posted by HookEm
Take them to court????? LMFAO!!!!

Seattle has been using it since 1984, the trademark was filed in 1989.....aggy will lose the rights to the trademark. lmfao
WRONG

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Originally Posted by HookEm
IT doesnt matter. The trademark was filed in 1989. There is prior established use by other entities, not just the SeaChickens. aggy no more has a claim to the term "12th Man" than Trump has a right to the phrase "you're fired."
WRONG

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Originally Posted by HookEm
I hear what you're saying, but the trademark date is 1989. If the Ags try to sue over this, they will lose the trademark.
WRONG AGAIN

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Originally Posted by HookEm
an IP lawyer's legal opinion on this case:

1) It doesn't matter if Seattle was using the phrase before A&M trademarked it; a registered trademark is evidence that one has a trademark, and it strongly helps you establish that you own the trademark, but it isn't necessary, and you can have unregistered trademarks based on your creation and usage of the phrase. So, since aggy was using it since 1922, they likely had a valid trademark at one time.

2) Just because they have a trademark doesn't mean that it is a) still legit; or b) national in nature.

On the first point, he thinks that aggy's trademark is likely no longer legit because 12th Man has become such a common phrase. He's from NY and never heard of it in connection with aggy. It's also a really simple concept; you take the number of players on the team of a given sport and say that the fans are the extra player. So there is a good chance it isn't still valid on that front.

On the second, just because aggy has a trademark locally doesn't mean it can be enforced in seattle. To establish your right to a trademarked work, you have to use the trademark. I can't just come up with a phrase and trademark it and wait for offers without using it myself. So to have a nationally enforceable trademark, aggy would have to market their products nationwide. Since aggy doesn't vigorously market "12th Man" in Seattle, it is strongly unlikely that Seattle consumers will confuse aggy with the seahawks such that they'd buy seattle products when they should be buying the aggy version. A trademark is different from a copyright; a copyright's purpose is to protect creative work, but a trademark is for protecting branding so that one can market to consumers. It's hard (though perhaps possible) for aggy to claim that its consumer base in freaking seattle to be harmed by its local use of 12th Man.

Now, seattle can't make maroon 12th Man shirts that say Texas A&M on them, because that would be appealing to the exact aggy market; but they can likely put 12th man on their own shirts.

But the truth is, the Seahawks aren't selling 12th Man gear, so that decreases aggy's claim further.

Further, although I noted above that aggy doesn't need to have registered the trademark to have it be a valid trademark, their lack of enforcement over the last twenty years would likely weigh heavily aggy. Not only do they not really market their 12th Man mark in Seattle, they have failed to challenge the Seahawk's use of it for 22 years. If they had challenged it in 1984, they would have had a much better chance at winning.

Now, it is possible that Seattle will back down like Chicago and a couple of other teams did because they don't want to deal with it or risk losing (indeed, that is one of the benefits of having an established, registered mark).

But his conclusion is that if aggy challenges the trademark, and seattle fights it, it is likely that seattle will win. If they do, aggy will lose all of the "scaring away infringers" benefit of the trademark and every team in the country can use it without any fear of suit.
Not a smart lawyer..and WRONG AGAIN

Quote:
Originally Posted by HookEm
If A&Ms smart, it will never go to court. They stand to lose more than they stand to gain. Granted, A&M has deep pockets......but Paul Allen most likely has access to MSoft's legal team...their record stands on its own merit.
Paul Allen decided to pay..must not have as much faith in his legal team as you did.

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Originally Posted by HookEm
Not my opinion, thus the quotes. The information comes from the US Patent and Trademark Office, probablly a pretty good authority in this matter.
LOL apparently it was your opinion..oh yea it was WRONG

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Originally Posted by HookEm
To reitterate and get the train back on track, the USPTO sets forth guidelines in regards to protecting one's trademark. One of these is vigilance. If theis goes to court, A&M, or in light of the latest signees comments, A$M, stands to lose their trademark, on several fronts:


1. 12th man=sideline=halftime. Too common place. I posted a long list of entitites that use 12th man...this is a term that originated in the 1600s, with the advent of cricket.
2. A lack of timeliness. Seattle began using this term in 1984, and 20 years later, the Ags go after them? I understand the trademark was filed in 1989, but still...15 years? Not exactly in compliance with the USPTO.
3. Regional recognition. It could be argued that the 12th Man Ag style is a regional flavor, and ditto for Seattle.


Quotes:
University of Washington intellectual property professor Dan Laster said companies must vigorously protect and enforce trademarks and he thinks the Aggies may have fumbled that ball.

"There definitely are questions about whether Texas A&M may have waited too long to assert any trademark right," he said.

Laster said there are other potential problems with Texas' case. For example, trademark law doesn't apply to descriptive uses of a phrase.


I think the best case scenario is that this is settled out of court. The Ags have a strong chance of either losing, or being bled dry, by Allen's all world legal team.
Hmmm I wonder..oh yea WRONG



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Originally Posted by HookEm
Even looking at 2004......thats quite a gap from 1989-2004. I think they should leave well enuff alone...Paul Allen's legal team may be the true dream team, and his pockets are way deeper than the Ags. No good will come from this.
Dream Team..LOLOLOLOL…..oh yea you were WRONG again. Man you were way off on this thread even though we both know youll never admit it!!!!

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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 03:47 PM
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I fuggin' hate the Seahawks. Their quarterback is a pussy, their running back is an asshole and they have the worst recieving corp in the NFC.Steve Hutchinson signing with the Vikes was the best offseason move in the history of the game, and I have the Vikes! I can't wait for Shawn Alexander to get planted like a damn tulip this season. Thier one saving grace is that they have the coolest stadium ever, but they cant even do that right! They built a retractable roof'd stadium in freakin' Seattle! Did anyone bother to notice that it rains EVERY DAMNED DAY?! God I hate the Seahawks.....

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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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Whether the courts agree or not, marketing of a term that has been existence since the beginning of football, and claiming it as your own, is just silly.

Hell, referring to those fans as "The 12th man," as of late (trademarked or not) is just silly....place gets pretty desolate around the 4th quarter on a fairly regular basis. That same field, where milk men attack women and children for touching the grass, is the same field that Texas has a winning record at.


Now, as to the suit...obviously the Ags didn't feel very confident, or there would have been no settlment. I wasn't wrong, because there was, essentially, no court settlment...it was settled out of court.





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Originally Posted by shrp88lx's
Lets see what was it you said about this?.....


WRONG

WRONG

WRONG AGAIN

Not a smart lawyer..and WRONG AGAIN

Paul Allen decided to pay..must not have as much faith in his legal team as you did.

LOL apparently it was your opinion..oh yea it was WRONG

Hmmm I wonder..oh yea WRONG



Dream Team..LOLOLOLOL…..oh yea you were WRONG again. Man you were way off on this thread even though we both know youll never admit it!!!!

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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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So, are you saying they DESERVE to share the 12th Man tag with the lil' Ags?

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I fuggin' hate the Seahawks. Their quarterback is a pussy, their running back is an asshole and they have the worst recieving corp in the NFC.Steve Hutchinson signing with the Vikes was the best offseason move in the history of the game, and I have the Vikes! I can't wait for Shawn Alexander to get planted like a damn tulip this season. Thier one saving grace is that they have the coolest stadium ever, but they cant even do that right! They built a retractable roof'd stadium in freakin' Seattle! Did anyone bother to notice that it rains EVERY DAMNED DAY?! God I hate the Seahawks.....

J

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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 04:01 PM
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Now, as to the suit...obviously the Ags didn't feel very confident, or there would have been no settlment. I wasn't wrong, because there was, essentially, no court settlment...it was settled out of court.
it was settled out of court becuase the seahawks knew they couldnt win, so Paul Allen with his "dream team" lawyers PAID!! the end!!
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 04:29 PM Thread Starter
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it was settled out of court becuase the seahawks knew they couldnt win, so Paul Allen with his "dream team" lawyers PAID!! the end!!
The Seahawks offered them money originally.

So, Seahawks offer money, Ags say it's not about money, Ags file cheesy lawsuit, Seahawks offer money, Ags take money.

Frivolous lawsuit, much?
Obviously, they didn't feel that strongly about their case, or they would have let a judge decide the merits of the case.

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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 04:30 PM
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So, are you saying they DESERVE to share the 12th Man tag with the lil' Ags?
What I'm sayin' is that both organizations should be banned from participating in organized athletics.

The aggies and the seahawks should join hands and jump off a fuckin' cliff. The world would be a better place.

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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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What I'm sayin' is that both organizations should be banned from participating in organized athletics.

The aggies and the seahawks should join hands and jump off a fuckin' cliff. The world would be a better place.


LMFAO!
Sig check........

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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-10-2006, 07:56 PM
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The Seahawks offered them money originally.

So, Seahawks offer money, Ags say it's not about money, Ags file cheesy lawsuit, Seahawks offer money, Ags take money.

Frivolous lawsuit, much?
Obviously, they didn't feel that strongly about their case, or they would have let a judge decide the merits of the case.
Frivolous lawsuit..HAHAHA man you are something else.
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
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Frivolous lawsuit..HAHAHA man you are something else.

It would be like marketing the term "First Down, 2nd Quarter, Halftime, or one million other football related terms.
Sorry, but this one wasnt far from the hot coffee incident, and all it did was make the Aggies look silly in the national spotlight. They shoulda taken the money originally, instead of dragging it out in the national spotlight AFTER the SeaChickens make the playoffs,.

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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 08:27 AM
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the Seahawks acknowledge Texas A&M's ownership rights of the trademarked phrase. However, the NFL team may continue using it under license.
That is all.
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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That is all.

It doesnt make it any less silly.
Do you think for one second that if there were "Approval rankings" for colleges, that this helped A&M on a national level? The whole nation is laughing about it...and I get that "they don't understand," it's an Aggie thing, etc, etc......


But ultimately, they got a few dollars, and were ridiculed nationally....in a time when every last single recruit counts, I'd suspect that the Ags would wanna keep a low profile, and avoid those kind of moves.

Good Lord...football season can't get here soon enuff....we're reduced to arguing the merits of a lawsuit on a sports forum.........

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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 08:53 AM
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It doesnt make it any less silly.
Do you think for one second that if there were "Approval rankings" for colleges, that this helped A&M on a national level? The whole nation is laughing about it...and I get that "they don't understand," it's an Aggie thing, etc, etc......


But ultimately, they got a few dollars, and were ridiculed nationally....in a time when every last single recruit counts, I'd suspect that the Ags would wanna keep a low profile, and avoid those kind of moves.

Good Lord...football season can't get here soon enuff....we're reduced to arguing the merits of a lawsuit on a sports forum.........
Yep we could be insulting each other!! LOL


The whole nation is not laughing about, most of them could care less except for you and it appears to everyone you have some sort of infatuation with A&M. When you get around to having a trademark for something and someone else starts using it, LMK if thats OK with you. Wait Ive got it I will start using your busiiness name thatd be OK with you Im sure.
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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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But they aren't using "Texas A&M." They're using something as common to the game as "First Down" and "Time out."




And if you don't think most of the nation was laughing and shaking their head's at this, you missed a lot of nationally syndicated sports programming when this suit hit the news. And don't you think, maroon glasses and all (not saying I don't fart a bit of burnt orange sunshine before you fire that right back at me...)that the timing of this suit, when it originally hit, was in poor taste?



Quote:
Originally Posted by shrp88lx's
Yep we could be insulting each other!! LOL


The whole nation is not laughing about, most of them could care less except for you and it appears to everyone you have some sort of infatuation with A&M. When you get around to having a trademark for something and someone else starts using it, LMK if thats OK with you. Wait Ive got it I will start using your busiiness name thatd be OK with you Im sure.

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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by HookEm
But they aren't using "Texas A&M." They're using something as common to the game as "First Down" and "Time out."




And if you don't think most of the nation was laughing and shaking their head's at this, you missed a lot of nationally syndicated sports programming when this suit hit the news. And don't you think, maroon glasses and all (not saying I don't fart a bit of burnt orange sunshine before you fire that right back at me...)that the timing of this suit, when it originally hit, was in poor taste?
WOW you really are hard headed about this, ITS A TRADEMARKED phrase, just like Bruce Buffers 'Lets get ready to rumble"...period they filed for it and got it and NO its not like 1st down or time out, and I would beg to differ its not that common. and weve been over this as well, the suit was filed WAYY before they made the playoffs, it only was media sensationalized because Seattle made it to the SB, you already agreed to that so why dispute it now.
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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HookEm
But they aren't using "Texas A&M." They're using something as common to the game as "First Down" and "Time out."




And if you don't think most of the nation was laughing and shaking their head's at this, you missed a lot of nationally syndicated sports programming when this suit hit the news. And don't you think, maroon glasses and all (not saying I don't fart a bit of burnt orange sunshine before you fire that right back at me...)that the timing of this suit, when it originally hit, was in poor taste?
Remind me, where were you on the tu position that an emblem on FWPD's patrol cars resembled the tu horns and the demand to have it changed?

I sure hope you are consistent and don't get hypocritical on this. Waiting for the this is different because...

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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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That it was stupid and nothing but bad pub. Why bitch about something that's allegedly giving you free advertising? I don't think the FWPD was profiting from it.

It amazes me that they will go after the FWPD, but they won't go after stupid shits selling upside down Longhorn gear. I don't care if the Ags and Sooners do that....hell, they pay The Unioversity a licensing fee.......



Quote:
Originally Posted by 90 Notch
Remind me, where were you on the tu position that an emblem on FWPD's patrol cars resembled the tu horns and the demand to have it changed?

I sure hope you are consistent and don't get hypocritical on this. Waiting for the this is different because...

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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 10:41 AM
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I don't care if the Ags and Sooners do that....hell, they pay The Unioversity a licensing fee.......
EXACTLY..Seattle wasnt paying liscensing fees and they were profiting... So how hypocritical will you be today???
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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Who Needs 8
Did I hear a Cha-Ching coming from College Station?
You sure did! Thanks and Gig'Em!!!
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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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Location: Saginaw, TX
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Apples and Oranges. When people outside of Texas see "The 12th Man" on something, Texas A&M does not come to mind.....it's just one of 10,000 football terms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12th_Ma...rican_football)
https://r.espn.go.com/espn/contests/ebay/index
http://www.allhiphop.com/reviews/?ID=572
http://www.abcofcricket.com/12thman/12thman.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12th_Man


They better sue ESPN, all cricket teams, an Australian Beer Company, and a few singers........

Quote:
Originally Posted by shrp88lx's
EXACTLY..Seattle wasnt paying liscensing fees and they were profiting... So how hypocritical will you be today???

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
Mike Bickle

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Sober By Grace Ministries: A Ministry of The James 2:26 Project
[size=1]Where New Beginnings Start
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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 12:22 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12th_Man
Origin
In January 1922, Texas A&M was playing top-ranked Centre College. The Aggies had limited reserves on their squad and several players were hurt. A&M coach Dana X. Bible, looking for much-needed players remembered a student by the name of E. King Gill, a former football player turned gymnast who was helping reporters identify players in the press box. Gill was asked to be available for the game, suited up and stood on the sideline ready to go in at a moment's notice although he never played in the game. As the game ended, which the Aggies won, Gill was the only remaining man on the sidelines. The students of Texas A&M have ever since been known as the original 12th Man.
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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 12:24 PM
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The funny part of that story is that Gill never did anything!!

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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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Location: Saginaw, TX
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Yes, that is one of several definitions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shrp88lx's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12th_Man
Origin
In January 1922, Texas A&M was playing top-ranked Centre College. The Aggies had limited reserves on their squad and several players were hurt. A&M coach Dana X. Bible, looking for much-needed players remembered a student by the name of E. King Gill, a former football player turned gymnast who was helping reporters identify players in the press box. Gill was asked to be available for the game, suited up and stood on the sideline ready to go in at a moment's notice although he never played in the game. As the game ended, which the Aggies won, Gill was the only remaining man on the sidelines. The students of Texas A&M have ever since been known as the original 12th Man.

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
Mike Bickle

[



Sober By Grace Ministries: A Ministry of The James 2:26 Project
[size=1]Where New Beginnings Start
www.soberbygrace.org
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post #31 of 31 (permalink) Old 05-11-2006, 12:29 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saginaw, TX
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On the bright side, maybe the Ags will use that $ to buy out Fran's contract....

color=#606060]
Quote:
"The Father-heart of God was... thrilled with me -- an immature, mess-making spiritual infant... My heavenly Father was enjoying me while I was yet in the process of maturing, not sighing in disgust and waiting impatiently until I grew up. He loved and longed for me; He felt proud and was excited over me while I was falling short."
Quote:
Mike Bickle

[



Sober By Grace Ministries: A Ministry of The James 2:26 Project
[size=1]Where New Beginnings Start
www.soberbygrace.org
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