The Dems have still not figured it out... - DFWstangs Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
The Dems have still not figured it out...

apparently. I sure hope some conservatives convince all Republicans to do what is right, not what they think they need to do to get re-elected like all of them have done in the past.

House Democrats keep Nancy Pelosi as their leader
ABC News – 1 hr 31 mins ago
WASHINGTON – House Democrats have re-elected Nancy Pelosi as their leader in the next Congress.

The closed-door vote Wednesday will let the California congresswoman shift from House speaker to minority leader in January, despite concerns by some Democrats that the party needs new leadership after suffering huge midterm election losses.

Pelosi has refused to take the blame and pinned party's losses on stubbornly high unemployment.

Democrats also quelled a power struggle between lieutenants Steny Hoyer of Maryland and James Clyburn of South Carolina, who vied to be Pelosi's second-in-command. Hoyer was poised to be the Democrats' vote-counting whip, and Clyburn will serve in a newly created position as the House's No. 3 Democrat.


If you need the link, it was taken from one of those story blips on Yahoo.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 02:29 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,017
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
apparently. I sure hope some conservatives convince all Republicans to do what is right, not what they think they need to do to get re-elected like all of them have done in the past.

House Democrats keep Nancy Pelosi as their leader
ABC News – 1 hr 31 mins ago
WASHINGTON – House Democrats have re-elected Nancy Pelosi as their leader in the next Congress.

The closed-door vote Wednesday will let the California congresswoman shift from House speaker to minority leader in January, despite concerns by some Democrats that the party needs new leadership after suffering huge midterm election losses.

Pelosi has refused to take the blame and pinned party's losses on stubbornly high unemployment.

Democrats also quelled a power struggle between lieutenants Steny Hoyer of Maryland and James Clyburn of South Carolina, who vied to be Pelosi's second-in-command. Hoyer was poised to be the Democrats' vote-counting whip, and Clyburn will serve in a newly created position as the House's No. 3 Democrat.


If you need the link, it was taken from one of those story blips on Yahoo.
The new minority gets just what they deserve from their closed-door (read: non-transparent) process then, a vindictive, butthurt bitch for their leader who's still stinging from resounding defeat.
Mr Majestyk is offline  
post #3 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Majestyk View Post
The new minority gets just what they deserve from their closed-door (read: non-transparent) process then, a vindictive, butthurt bitch for their leader who's still stinging from resounding defeat.
I just hope it translates into a conservative President in '12.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
 
post #4 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 02:46 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 779
Bad move for Dems.

05 GT Torch Red C&L CAI, Diablo 93 tune, BMR LCR's & UCR, Pro 5.0, S UDP, Mac
<a href="http://giftube.com/"><img src="http://giftube.com/gifs/1016.gif" alt=""></a><br/><a style="padding:3px;background: transparent;color:#00ADEF;font-family:tahoma;font-size:10px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none;" href="http://giftube.com/" target="_blank">Gifs at Giftube.com </a>
jones4stangs is offline  
post #5 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 02:46 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,089
the dems problem in the 2010 election was not pelosi, the problem was that to many dems were afraid to run on their record, instead concentrated on what the tea party was saying. those democrats that stood by their record of the last couple years like pelosi and reid were reelected, those that caved in to tea party polls lost.

cannonball996 is offline  
post #6 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonball996 View Post
the dems problem in the 2010 election was not pelosi, the problem was that to many dems were afraid to run on their record, instead concentrated on what the tea party was saying. those democrats that stood by their record of the last couple years like pelosi and reid were reelected, those that caved in to tea party polls lost.
It is my point that Pelosi and Obama being out front for the Dems will be a big boon the Republicans. The independent voters will see them as the extremsits they are and will do to Obama what happened to lots of Congressmen/women.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #7 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 06:24 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ellis County
Posts: 18,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonball996 View Post
the dems problem in the 2010 election was not pelosi, the problem was that to many dems were afraid to run on their record, instead concentrated on what the tea party was saying. those democrats that stood by their record of the last couple years like pelosi and reid were reelected, those that caved in to tea party polls lost.
Wrong. Not 1 dem ran on healthcare. There was nothing else to run on. Reid got re-elected because of the huge labor unions in Las Vegas and Angle being a questionable candidate. Most dems were hammered overall, regardless of what they had to say.

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
Vertnut is offline  
post #8 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut View Post
Wrong. Not 1 dem ran on healthcare. There was nothing else to run on. Reid got re-elected because of the huge labor unions in Las Vegas and Angle being a questionable candidate. Most dems were hammered overall, regardless of what they had to say.
Even Olberman commented on how Reid barely won against what he called a crackpot (or something similar) Republican. I think his point was that if a decent Republican had run against him he would have lost.


It was as much of an admission that the Dems are in trouble that a far left nut like Olberman would ever give.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #9 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-17-2010, 11:05 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Methinks Democrats will retake the House in 2012.

Taylor is offline  
post #10 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
Methinks Democrats will retake the House in 2012.
I would love to hear what a liberal thinks will happen and why. Do tell.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #11 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 10:44 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
I would love to hear what a liberal thinks will happen and why. Do tell.
Too many Republicans promised to rescind health care reform and that isn't going to happen for starters.

Taylor is offline  
post #12 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 12:02 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ellis County
Posts: 18,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
Too many Republicans promised to rescind health care reform and that isn't going to happen for starters.
You mean "repeal"? They can vote (in the house) to repeal it. Obama would veto, then all the house does is defund it.

Obama will be ready for a rubber room before summer is up. He's done. The 2012 elections will be even worse for the dems. More than twice the number of dem seats will be up for re-election.

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
Vertnut is offline  
post #13 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 07:47 AM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
Too many Republicans promised to rescind health care reform and that isn't going to happen for starters.
Everything the Dems did the last 2 years was completely rebuked in this election, including Obamacare. What makes you think Pelosi and Obama can completely change course in the next 2 years to retake Congress or keep the Messiah in office?


Do you really think the country wants Obamacare and that issue is a loser for the Conservative movement sweeping this country? I would love to hear this theory.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #14 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 02:06 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut View Post
You mean "repeal"? They can vote (in the house) to repeal it. Obama would veto, then all the house does is defund it.

Obama will be ready for a rubber room before summer is up. He's done. The 2012 elections will be even worse for the dems. More than twice the number of dem seats will be up for re-election.
Repeal and rescind mean the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post

Do you really think the country wants Obamacare and that issue is a loser for the Conservative movement sweeping this country? I would love to hear this theory.
If the country was actually informed on what "Obamacare" is and does, then yes, they would want it. Unfortunately they're too busy getting one side of the story from major news networks.


Last edited by Taylor; 11-19-2010 at 02:07 PM. Reason: grammar
Taylor is offline  
post #15 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
If the country was actually informed on what "Obamacare" is and does, then yes, they would want it. Unfortunately they're too busy getting one side of the story from major news networks.
Holy crap! You actually went there. Only a liberal will insult the majority of Americans who say they don't want it and say "If you only knew what us liberals know, you would agree with us!" How typical you are as a liberal for implying that only you liberals are informed and the rest of us are too stupid to know what you know. LOL

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #16 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 06:03 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
Too many Republicans promised to rescind health care reform and that isn't going to happen for starters.
yep. republican promises are as hollow as they are. in the end, we're going to have Osamacare. wait and see if that doesn't happen. little by little the politicians will add to it until they control all the healthcare money. and insurance companies will cease to exist as we know them. cause that's what the government needs right? more of our money to waste?
92Gt5liter is offline  
post #17 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 06:16 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Holy crap! You actually went there. Only a liberal will insult the majority of Americans who say they don't want it and say "If you only knew what us liberals know, you would agree with us!" How typical you are as a liberal for implying that only you liberals are informed and the rest of us are too stupid to know what you know. LOL
It's no secret that the majority of Americans are uninformed (ESPECIALLY regarding health care reform) and it's not really any fault of their own when our media tells them shit that will give their network higher ratings as opposed to what's REALLY going on. I wasn't implying anyone is stupid but you like to read too much into things in that regard so I'm not sure why I'm even surprised you would come to such a ridiculous conclusion.

Lol'd at your excessive use of the word liberal though. Does it make you feel better when you say it?

Taylor is offline  
post #18 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 06:19 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Gt5liter View Post
yep. republican promises are as hollow as they are. in the end, we're going to have Osamacare. wait and see if that doesn't happen. little by little the politicians will add to it until they control all the healthcare money. and insurance companies will cease to exist as we know them. cause that's what the government needs right? more of our money to waste?
The USA spends a larger percentage of its GDP on health care than ANY OTHER COUNTRY with universal health care, even the countries with socialized medicine. We spend an even bigger percentage in administrative costs too. That's not going to change overnight with this health care reform but universal care is a step in the right direction in regards to controlling costs.

Edit: Oh, and those other countries health care systems are also more effective.

Taylor is offline  
post #19 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
It's no secret that the majority of Americans are uninformed (ESPECIALLY regarding health care reform) and it's not really any fault of their own when our media tells them shit that will give their network higher ratings as opposed to what's REALLY going on. I wasn't implying anyone is stupid but you like to read too much into things in that regard so I'm not sure why I'm even surprised you would come to such a ridiculous conclusion.

Lol'd at your excessive use of the word liberal though. Does it make you feel better when you say it?
I call it as I see it. I still love how you imply that the liberals (who are in the minority supporting Obamacare) who support Obamacare have gone to great lengths to get educated and the majority who don't support it have only listened to the stupid mainstream media, which btw is hard core liberal! You are cracking me up dude.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #20 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 06:24 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
I call it as I see it. I still love how you imply that the liberals (who are in the minority supporting Obamacare) who support Obamacare have gone to great lengths to get educated and the majority who don't support it have only listened to the stupid mainstream media, which btw is hard core liberal! You are cracking me up dude.
Most "liberals" that are proponents of health care like it regardless of what's in it and that's just as ignorant imo. I wasn't implying that only opponents of it are stupid. It doesn't really matter what I say though when you just twist and interpret it to your liking.

Fox News is liberal? lol ok.


Last edited by Taylor; 11-19-2010 at 06:35 PM.
Taylor is offline  
post #21 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 06:39 PM
BANNED
 
Pro88LX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Frisco
Posts: 8,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
The USA spends a larger percentage of its GDP on health care than ANY OTHER COUNTRY with universal health care, even the countries with socialized medicine. We spend an even bigger percentage in administrative costs too. That's not going to change overnight with this health care reform but universal care is a step in the right direction in regards to controlling costs.

Edit: Oh, and those other countries health care systems are also more effective.
If thats true, why do people from countries with socialized medicine come HERE for medical treatments? Surely not because thier government insurance is of high quality, and is efficient.

Pro88LX is offline  
post #22 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 06:44 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro88LX View Post
If thats true, why do people from countries with socialized medicine come HERE for medical treatments? Surely not because thier government insurance is of high quality, and is efficient.
They come here for special procedures, not for general health care. That has more to do with the USA having better medical schools than foreign countries health care systems.
And those aren't as common as the media would have you believe either. At least not enough to use it as a tool to judge the health care of said person's country.


Last edited by Taylor; 11-19-2010 at 06:54 PM.
Taylor is offline  
post #23 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
Most "liberals" that are proponents of health care like it regardless of what's in it and that's just as ignorant imo. I wasn't implying that only opponents of it are stupid. It doesn't really matter what I say though when you just twist and interpret it to your liking.

Fox News is liberal? lol ok.
Fox News is not mainstream media, it is part of cable news.

So are you a liberal or a Democrat? Did you vote for Obama?

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #24 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 09:19 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Fox News is not mainstream media, it is part of cable news.

So are you a liberal or a Democrat? Did you vote for Obama?
I don't know how many times we've gone over this.

1) No, but you won't believe me regardless of what I tell you
2) No however I do like a couple of his policies, namely health care reform

Taylor is offline  
post #25 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
I don't know how many times we've gone over this.

1) No, but you won't believe me regardless of what I tell you
2) No however I do like a couple of his policies, namely health care reform
Okay, I don't beleive you. I really do think you know in your heart that you are a liberal. You spew the far left rhetoric like it is mainstream. You may not call yourself a liberal, but you sure are one to me.

I bet that stupid little cartoon in your sig is popular on all the hard core lib sites, isn't it?

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #26 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 11:56 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Okay, I don't beleive you. I really do think you know in your heart that you are a liberal. You spew the far left rhetoric like it is mainstream. You may not call yourself a liberal, but you sure are one to me.

I bet that stupid little cartoon in your sig is popular on all the hard core lib sites, isn't it?
Cool story, bro.


Last edited by Taylor; 11-20-2010 at 12:11 AM.
Taylor is offline  
post #27 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 05:54 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ellis County
Posts: 18,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Okay, I don't beleive you. I really do think you know in your heart that you are a liberal. You spew the far left rhetoric like it is mainstream. You may not call yourself a liberal, but you sure are one to me.

I bet that stupid little cartoon in your sig is popular on all the hard core lib sites, isn't it?
Well of course he's a leftist nut-job!

How will the American people EVER know what's in Obamacare, if the stinking congressmen don't even know? Taylor, you understand that NO ONE knows what's in there, right? It's not even completed, you moron. There's literally hundreds of open-ended issues that have no conclusions or definitions. Imagine a movie with no ending.
There's not one thing the government does efficiently, and most Americans are aware of that.

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
Vertnut is offline  
post #28 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 10:25 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut View Post
Well of course he's a leftist nut-job!

How will the American people EVER know what's in Obamacare, if the stinking congressmen don't even know? Taylor, you understand that NO ONE knows what's in there, right? It's not even completed, you moron. There's literally hundreds of open-ended issues that have no conclusions or definitions. Imagine a movie with no ending.
There's not one thing the government does efficiently, and most Americans are aware of that.
There are plenty of people who know what's in it. And yes I'm aware it's not completed. That was probably done with good reason, don't you think?

Taylor is offline  
post #29 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 05:44 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ellis County
Posts: 18,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
There are plenty of people who know what's in it. And yes I'm aware it's not completed. That was probably done with good reason, don't you think?
How can you know what's not even there? They're making that bill up as they go along, for crissakes. The "good reason" you speak of, was to totally manipulate and snow the American people.

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
Vertnut is offline  
post #30 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 09:02 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut View Post
How can you know what's not even there? They're making that bill up as they go along, for crissakes. The "good reason" you speak of, was to totally manipulate and snow the American people.
In what way?

Taylor is offline  
post #31 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
There are plenty of people who know what's in it. And yes I'm aware it's not completed. That was probably done with good reason, don't you think?
Yes, so that they can eventually go to single payer and drive all insurance company's out of business. Obama wants to control the masses, and how better to do it than control their health care (by controlling 1/7 of the money/economy)? This is a first step dude, you silly liberals always think you are smarter than everyone else and we don't see it.

It is the same with the gay agenda, once they get marriage rights, they can then get what they really want. The marriage rights is the first step, not the final stop.

Silly liberal, the tricks by your kind are so transparent!

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #32 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut View Post
How can you know what's not even there? They're making that bill up as they go along, for crissakes. The "good reason" you speak of, was to totally manipulate and snow the American people.
His leader, Pelosi said it best, once you get a chance to read it/know what's in it (paraphrased by me) you will love it!

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #33 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 10:16 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Yes, so that they can eventually go to single payer and drive all insurance company's out of business. Obama wants to control the masses, and how better to do it than control their health care (by controlling 1/7 of the money/economy)? This is a first step dude, you silly liberals always think you are smarter than everyone else and we don't see it.

It is the same with the gay agenda, once they get marriage rights, they can then get what they really want. The marriage rights is the first step, not the final stop.

Silly liberal, the tricks by your kind are so transparent!
-A single payer system would probably be much cheaper.
-I have no problem driving most insurance companies out of business. All they do is cheat people out of their money.

Edit: And what is it gays really want?

Taylor is offline  
post #34 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 10:22 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
His leader, Pelosi said it best, once you get a chance to read it/know what's in it (paraphrased by me) you will love it!
Have you read it? Do you know what's in it?

Honest question.

Taylor is offline  
post #35 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
-A single payer system would probably be much cheaper.
-I have no problem driving most insurance companies out of business. All they do is cheat people out of their money.

Edit: And what is it gays really want?
Once they get gay marriage sanctioned by the government, they can then force their life style CHOICE to be taught in public schools as equal to hetreosexuality. Once again, your opinion about homosexuality boils down to what you believe about it being a choice or not. If you think it is a choice, no special rights for gays they don;t deserve just like any other lifestyle choice. If you think it is something they have no choice in choosing, then you want them to have rights like heteros, people of color, etc.

Oh yeah, so the people who are against Obamacare are only against it because they don't know what's in it, right?

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #36 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
Have you read it? Do you know what's in it?

Honest question.
Nope, but I have seen enough talking heads/commentators/politicians speak of specific parts of it to know I don't want it. The arguments by the liberals who claim to have read it and the conservatives who have claimed to read it have given me a pretty well informed opinion about it.

How about you?

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #37 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 10:36 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Once they get gay marriage sanctioned by the government, they can then force their life style CHOICE to be taught in public schools as equal to hetreosexuality. Once again, your opinion about homosexuality boils down to what you believe about it being a choice or not. If you think it is a choice, no special rights for gays they don;t deserve just like any other lifestyle choice. If you think it is something they have no choice in choosing, then you want them to have rights like heteros, people of color, etc.
Interesting theory.

Quote:
Oh yeah, so the people who are against Obamacare are only against it because they don't know what's in it, right?
Not necessarily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Nope, but I have seen enough talking heads/commentators/politicians speak of specific parts of it to know I don't want it. The arguments by the liberals who claim to have read it and the conservatives who have claimed to read it have given me a pretty well informed opinion about it.

How about you?
Talking heads/commentators only tell you the parts they want you to hear and you've said yourself the politicians don't know what's in it...

Not all of it, but quite a bit, yes.


Last edited by Taylor; 11-21-2010 at 01:06 AM.
Taylor is offline  
post #38 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 08:45 AM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
The USA spends a larger percentage of its GDP on health care than ANY OTHER COUNTRY with universal health care, even the countries with socialized medicine. We spend an even bigger percentage in administrative costs too. That's not going to change overnight with this health care reform but universal care is a step in the right direction in regards to controlling costs.

Edit: Oh, and those other countries health care systems are also more effective.
and you think that some miracle is going to happen and all the sudden as soon as the government gets control of healthcare, they will change their previous ways? that they won't be just as wasteful and all the sudden there will be love and peace to all mankind? i see that you are a blind man. who has never heard of the post office, social security, medicare, and on and on and on. you should run for office you'd make a great democrat
92Gt5liter is offline  
post #39 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 09:36 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by 92Gt5liter View Post
and you think that some miracle is going to happen and all the sudden as soon as the government gets control of healthcare, they will change their previous ways? that they won't be just as wasteful and all the sudden there will be love and peace to all mankind? i see that you are a blind man. who has never heard of the post office, social security, medicare, and on and on and on. you should run for office you'd make a great democrat
You could argue all those OECD countries with universal care have governments just as stupid and inefficient as ours yet they still have better health care systems. All the government is trying to do is bring down costs and force the insurers to stop fucking over customers.

The US isn't running a "socialized" medicine system. Only 2 or 3 countries run a system like that. In fact it's not even providing a public option (although it should have). The reform legislation mainly attempts to lower prices and provide more access.

Taylor is offline  
post #40 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
Interesting theory.



Not necessarily.



Talking heads/commentators only tell you the parts they want you to hear and you've said yourself the politicians don't know what's in it...

Not all of it, but quite a bit, yes.
Yeah, I have to read the whole thing to know I don't like it but you have not read it and think it is great, right? This is typial liberal thinking and hypocrisy, can't you see that?

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #41 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
You could argue all those OECD countries with universal care have governments just as stupid and inefficient as ours yet they still have better health care systems. All the government is trying to do is bring down costs and force the insurers to stop fucking over customers.

The US isn't running a "socialized" medicine system. Only 2 or 3 countries run a system like that. In fact it's not even providing a public option (although it should have). The reform legislation mainly attempts to lower prices and provide more access.
Once all the mandates kick in, like covering pre-existing conditions, bankrupt all of the for-profit insurance companies, the government will be the only entity that can insure anyone, therefore we got o single payer and the government money and power grab is complete.

Please tell me one thing the government does that is efficient, cost effective, and better than a free enterprise open market solution?

I can show you the postal service, the DMV, the IRS, medicare, social security, and many other programs and agencies that are in support of my argument that government is the worst solution to the problem, not the best.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #42 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 11:48 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ellis County
Posts: 18,370
If it's such a great healthcare bill, why have so many large unions and companies "opted" out of it, and why can't we, as citizens, be able to do the same? Because we pissed on Barry's agenda in this last election, and he will make us pay.

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
Vertnut is offline  
post #43 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 11:55 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Yeah, I have to read the whole thing to know I don't like it but you have not read it and think it is great, right? This is typial liberal thinking and hypocrisy, can't you see that?
I didn't say you had to read the whole thing but you just admitted you hadn't read ANY of it.

Your argument doesn't even make sense. "Ohhh I haven't read it but people on TV say it's bad so I believe them! And if you've actually read it and have a different opinion then you're just a stupid liberal!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Once all the mandates kick in, like covering pre-existing conditions, bankrupt all of the for-profit insurance companies, the government will be the only entity that can insure anyone, therefore we got o single payer and the government money and power grab is complete.

Please tell me one thing the government does that is efficient, cost effective, and better than a free enterprise open market solution?

I can show you the postal service, the DMV, the IRS, medicare, social security, and many other programs and agencies that are in support of my argument that government is the worst solution to the problem, not the best.
Insurance companies are only spending 20% of premium payments on direct medical care right now. They deny coverage to people via an absolute shit-tier practice called rescission and at any time can cut a certain medication or treatment if they don't want to spend the money on patient claims. I'm perfectly okay with sending their shitty practices out of business.

There isn't any competition right now to begin with and there never would be with managed care so that's a moot point.

Taylor is offline  
post #44 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
I didn't say you had to read the whole thing but you just admitted you hadn't read ANY of it.

Your argument doesn't even make sense. "Ohhh I haven't read it but people on TV say it's bad so I believe them! And if you've actually read it and have a different opinion then you're just a stupid liberal!" .
Of course my argument doesn't make sense to you. You claimed if I had read it I would like it, yet you haven't read it. You will never see the hypocrisy in your argument though, it's part of being a liberal.

BTW, I haven't just watched people on TV. I guess you could take that literal translation and assume that, but you would be wrong. That point doesn't really matter I guess.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
Insurance companies are only spending 20% of premium payments on direct medical care right now. They deny coverage to people via an absolute shit-tier practice called rescission and at any time can cut a certain medication or treatment if they don't want to spend the money on patient claims. I'm perfectly okay with sending their shitty practices out of business.

There isn't any competition right now to begin with and there never would be with managed care so that's a moot point.
You sure ignored my points about the government taking control and left out any place where governbment improved a system or way of doing things. Very telling.

I also love the liberal logic of everyone getting unlimited coverage and only a few actually paying for it. Yeah, that will work.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
post #45 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 01:23 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
Of course my argument doesn't make sense to you. You claimed if I had read it I would like it, yet you haven't read it. You will never see the hypocrisy in your argument though, it's part of being a liberal.

BTW, I haven't just watched people on TV. I guess you could take that literal translation and assume that, but you would be wrong. That point doesn't really matter I guess.
lol what? How did you come to the conclusion I haven't read it? I haven't read the ENTIRE thing but I've studied quite a bit of it. Your argument makes zero sense. You may not LIKE IT if you read the whole thing but at least you wouldn't be spewing bullshit that doesn't even make sense.

You said you've listened to enough talking heads and politicians talk about it to know enough about it. Now you're backtracking and claiming you have other sources after I call you out on it? lol.


Quote:
You sure ignored my points about the government taking control and left out any place where governbment improved a system or way of doing things. Very telling.

I also love the liberal logic of everyone getting unlimited coverage and only a few actually paying for it. Yeah, that will work.
What are they "taking over" exactly? Do tell.

Taylor is offline  
post #46 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 01:39 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ellis County
Posts: 18,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
lol what? How did you come to the conclusion I haven't read it? I haven't read the ENTIRE thing but I've studied quite a bit of it. Your argument makes zero sense. You may not LIKE IT if you read the whole thing but at least you wouldn't be spewing bullshit that doesn't even make sense.

You said you've listened to enough talking heads and politicians talk about it to know enough about it. Now you're backtracking and claiming you have other sources after I call you out on it? lol.




What are they "taking over" exactly? Do tell.
They're taking away your right to choose: your own insurance company and your own doctor.

I like how you overlooked my entire last post. You pretty much fail at debate...

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
Vertnut is offline  
post #47 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 01:43 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertnut View Post
They're taking away your right to choose: your own insurance company and your own doctor.

I like how you overlooked my entire last post. You pretty much fail at debate...
I've yet to see anything saying you can't pick your own doctor.
Most managed care companies don't allow you to choose your own doctor either. You have to stay within their "provider networks." If you see a doctor outside those provider networks without a referral, which they make it a huge pain in the ass to do, they refuse to cover your bills.

Your last post didn't make much sense. Opt out of what?


Last edited by Taylor; 11-21-2010 at 01:56 PM.
Taylor is offline  
post #48 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 01:56 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Ellis County
Posts: 18,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
Most managed care companies don't allow you to choose your own doctor either. You have to stay within their "provider networks." If you see a doctor outside those provider networks without a referral, which they make it a huge pain in the ass to do, they refuse to cover your bills.

Your last post didn't make much sense. Opt out of what?
Huge companies (McDonalds, Aetna, etc) are being allowed to opt out of the Obamacare debacle. Do you read the news? I feel like you're not educated on this subject at all, except what little you hear from Keith Olberman...

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
Vertnut is offline  
post #49 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 02:01 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,163
I don't watch the news so no I haven't heard about any of that.

I did some reading and from what I understand those are only 1-year waivers given to companies who provide "minimed" plans. Those plans won't be eligible much longer because they don't cover all the minimum benefits that will be required by the legislation. After those waivers expire they'll probably have to start buying in to the new system or start paying the fees associated with opting out.

Taylor is offline  
post #50 of 142 (permalink) Old 11-21-2010, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
Paladin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 14,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
lol what? How did you come to the conclusion I haven't read it? I haven't read the ENTIRE thing but I've studied quite a bit of it. Your argument makes zero sense. You may not LIKE IT if you read the whole thing but at least you wouldn't be spewing bullshit that doesn't even make sense.

You said you've listened to enough talking heads and politicians talk about it to know enough about it. Now you're backtracking and claiming you have other sources after I call you out on it? lol.
Pure liberalism at it's finest, "if you would just get as educated as me you would see my side and how right I am" all the time spewing hypocrisy. You want me to read it (so I will then all of a sudden like it) but haven't read it yourself.

Are you really trying to say that only people who have actually read every word of all legislation have the right to like it or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
What are they "taking over" exactly? Do tell.
1/7 or so of the whole US economy, that's what!

Can you name anything that the goiverbnment has rtun that was efficient and not frought with fraud and corruption? I will keep asking if you keep ignoring.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
Paladin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DFWstangs Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome