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post #1 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 03:29 PM Thread Starter
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Union pride kills another plant

Rather than take a pay cut (to the norm, IMO), they'd rather shutter the place.
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Battle over: GM plant will be shuttered
Buyer walks away after Indy workers reject wage cuts nearly 5 to 1

Turned down by union workers Monday, Illinois businessman Justin Norman won't come back with a sweeter bid to buy GM's huge Indianapolis metal plant.

"We are withdrawing from pursuing the plant any further," JD Norman Industries announced after autoworkers voted 457-96 against a concession contract that would have cleared the way for Norman to buy the plant and cut wages by nearly half.

Although the vote marks a victory for defiant leaders of United Auto Workers Local 23 trying to resist wage cuts, it brings a quick end to attempts to spare the old riverside landmark from a shutdown that will widen the hole in the city's industrial tax base.

Some workers apparently thought the Chicago-area manufacturer might respond with an offer for higher wages later this fall if the proposal for a pay cut of almost 50 percent was rejected Monday, said Maurice "Mo" Davison, executive director of UAW Region 3.

But the entrepreneur left no doubt he decided to walk away, Davison said, noting Norman told him Monday afternoon that his "negotiations are done" with GM and the UAW.

JD Norman Industries, based in Addison, Ill., had emerged as the only potential buyer after GM said it would close the 80-year-old plant to shed excess capacity if no sale took place.

Marion County receives about $1.8 million in property taxes per year from the underused plant, which carries an annual payroll of about $40 million for 650 production workers and more than 50 salaried workers. The 2.1 million-square-foot plant once employed more than 6,000 workers. The plant is owned by Motors Liquidation Co., which GM set up during its 2009 bankruptcy to take over discarded property.

Indiana state officials had offered Norman Industries $2 million in tax incentives if it managed to create a promised 1,900 new jobs at the lower wage rate.

After the vote Monday, Indiana Commerce Secretary Mitch Roob chastised the autoworkers, noting that the U.S. Treasury propped up GM last year with $50 billion in federal cash.

"After having the U.S taxpayer bail out these workers, and then they really turned their back on the next generation of Indiana workers in a way that is very frustrating," Roob said.

Many stamping plant workers expect they will find jobs in GM plants in other cities and states under the transfer rights in the UAW's master labor contract.

Rejecting the offer from Norman was seen by Local 23 officers as a way to resist a wave of pay cuts throughout the industry.

"The contract they offered us wasn't a contract," said Gregory Clark, Local 23 bargaining chairman. "It just gutted everything we had come to know as a contract between employers and employees."

What concerned many workers were the wages. The contract offer would have cut the standard UAW base wage, currently $29 per hour, to $15.50 and pared the $33 wage for skilled trades workers to $24.

Clark described the fight over the plant as worthwhile for Local 23, though he stopped short of declaring it a victory for the UAW.

"It's a second-round victory in a 12-round fight," Clark said, adding that he expects GM will demand pay cuts when negotiations open next year with the UAW on a new master contract.

For GM autoworker Bob Speece, Indianapolis, his decision to vote against the Norman offer hinged on staying with what he knew was the certainty of the contract with GM.

"It was a great deal for the young kids,'' said the experienced autoworker, "but there were a lot of things in there I wasn't sure of. At least I know what I have now (with GM)."

Monday's vote resulted from UAW officials in Detroit deciding to negotiate a concession proposal with Norman after Local 23 refused to do so.

Members of the local voted by a wide margin in May to refuse any discussions with the potential buyer. The union's Detroit home office negotiated anyway and pushed the matter to the vote decided Monday.

Davison, the UAW regional director representing the Detroit office in Indiana, was sanguine Monday about the results.

"At least the membership got to vote," he said.

Had they approved the concession offer, Indianapolis workers could have stayed temporarily on Norman Industries' payroll, then flowed to GM as jobs opened in certain plants.

For longtime GM workers in Indianapolis, transfer rights are in place for GM's Bedford foundry. However, Davison doubted GM would renegotiate terms and open the way for Indianapolis autoworkers to staff the company's Fort Wayne truck plant or Marion stamping plant.

"If that were to happen, it would take GM to sit down and agree to it, and I can't see GM sitting down to agree to anything with Indianapolis after today," Davison said.
http://www.indystar.com/article/2010...es+&+Budget%29

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post #2 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 03:43 PM
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a 40% pay cut is a pretty substantial pay cut. LOL

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post #3 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 03:49 PM
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a 40% pay cut is a pretty substantial pay cut. LOL
But it's 60% better than nothing.

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post #4 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 03:53 PM
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But it's 60% better than nothing.
If my job told me that I could continue working if I took a 40% pay cut, I would tell them to 100% go fuck themselves immediately.

Put yourself in their shoes guys. Even though they were making way too much for a given job, that is what the deal that was made.

If I can make 100$ an hour doing an easy job, should I abstain because I would hate to be overpaid? No. Life is a lease, negotiate well.

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post #5 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 03:56 PM
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If my job told me that I could continue working if I took a 40% pay cut, I would tell them to 100% go fuck themselves immediately.

Put yourself in their shoes guys. Even though they were making way too much for a given job, that is what the deal that was made.

If I can make 100$ an hour doing an easy job, should I abstain because I would hate to be overpaid? No. Life is a lease, negotiate well.
The money is either there or it's not. They DID tell them to fuck off, so they can sit their asses at home and starve. We ALL have that option. Pride is a motherfucker...but it don't pay the bills.

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post #6 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 03:58 PM
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that is a big pay cut, I sort of dont blame them.

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post #7 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ThreeFingerPete View Post
If my job told me that I could continue working if I took a 40% pay cut, I would tell them to 100% go fuck themselves immediately.

Put yourself in their shoes guys. Even though they were making way too much for a given job, that is what the deal that was made.

If I can make 100$ an hour doing an easy job, should I abstain because I would hate to be overpaid? No. Life is a lease, negotiate well.
Very very well said.


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post #8 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ThreeFingerPete View Post
If my job told me that I could continue working if I took a 40% pay cut, I would tell them to 100% go fuck themselves immediately.

Put yourself in their shoes guys. Even though they were making way too much for a given job, that is what the deal that was made.

If I can make 100$ an hour doing an easy job, should I abstain because I would hate to be overpaid? No. Life is a lease, negotiate well.
No this is DFWStangs, its "in" to hate union jobs and to hate on the guy that signs up for a easier job that pays more. Its also in to post up how you will take a 40% paycut then in reality raise hell with your boss because they raised the prices at the vending machine in the breakroom.

No one wants to think about what they would honestly do if they were faced with either a 40% pay cut or possibly relocate. In most cases, union contracts have contingencies for plant/location shutdowns saying employees have to relocate. If the plant isnt making the money then it isnt meant to be. Also I wouldnt be surprised if most of the people voting were working in near by plants. The union is much larger than one single plant.
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post #9 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 04:33 PM
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Good luck getting me to do what I do for half the pay.

But then again, I don't make double what I'm worth....
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post #10 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 05:23 PM
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Good luck getting me to do what I do for half the pay.

But then again, I don't make double what I'm worth....
That's the bottom line. Any job I've had during my adult life (21 and up), paid me on what I PRODUCED. Either billed hours, or a commission of some type, or both. It's the only way I'll work.

Occasional part-time gigs aside.

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post #11 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 05:34 PM
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That's the bottom line. Any job I've had during my adult life (21 and up), paid me on what I PRODUCED. Either billed hours, or a commission of some type, or both. It's the only way I'll work.

Occasional part-time gigs aside.
Whats the difference between you working "billed hours" and a union worker working 40 hours?

The way I think about it is this. When the gas companies were coming around offering shit pay for gas leases here at my house, my neighborhood all got together and negotiated a MUCH better rate. The gas lease companies wouldnt negotiate with everyone individually obviously but as a whole neghborhood they had no choice. Was that wrong too? Thats the same thing the union does at work, they negotiate my pay and benefits along with every other employees at the same time.

Do they protect the shitty workers? Sure but we arent all "lazy union workers" like everyone loves to blast.
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post #12 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 05:46 PM
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Retarded ass union workers strike again. They are truly mental giants.
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post #13 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:00 PM
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Whats the difference between you working "billed hours" and a union worker working 40 hours?

The way I think about it is this. When the gas companies were coming around offering shit pay for gas leases here at my house, my neighborhood all got together and negotiated a MUCH better rate. The gas lease companies wouldnt negotiate with everyone individually obviously but as a whole neghborhood they had no choice. Was that wrong too? Thats the same thing the union does at work, they negotiate my pay and benefits along with every other employees at the same time.

Do they protect the shitty workers? Sure but we arent all "lazy union workers" like everyone loves to blast.
I got paid on what I produced...period. Sure there are good guys in the unions, but you get the same pay as a bad one. Is that OK with you? That would piss me off, but I'm competitive in everything I do. What's the incentive for anyone to go above and beyond in doing their job?

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post #14 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:01 PM
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The way I think about it is this. When the gas companies were coming around offering shit pay for gas leases here at my house, my neighborhood all got together and negotiated a MUCH better rate. The gas lease companies wouldnt negotiate with everyone individually obviously but as a whole neghborhood they had no choice. .
Bad example for me, literally a stones throw away got $32k an acre. My neighborhood was late to the game and didn't sign a lease. We've been offered $3k since.

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post #15 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:01 PM
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As much as I hate to say it, if I were them I'd move all my plants over seas. Or down to mexico. Or wherever, just to get away from those dirty unions. You know the trouble they've cause over the years? I mean you gotta look at it from GM's perspective. They are not in it to give undeserving people good jobs. They are in it to survive in the business world and make a profit. I have often wondered why they don't just close down all their plants here and put 'em all in Mexico. Sucks for the US, but I have to say I'd rather see a bunch of unskilled labor lose their jobs rather than not have GM anymore. Or Ford, or whoever.
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post #16 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:02 PM
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Bad example for me, literally a stones throw away got $32k an acre. My neighborhood was late to the game and didn't sign a lease. We've been offered $3k since.
That sucks.

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post #17 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:14 PM
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I got paid on what I produced...period. Sure there are good guys in the unions, but you get the same pay as a bad one. Is that OK with you? That would piss me off, but I'm competitive in everything I do. What's the incentive for anyone to go above and beyond in doing their job?
There are lots of incentives. Some positions at my place of buisness offer higher wages to those that get special schooling.

Do I like making as much as some fucks that spend all their yearly FMLA time every year and are hardly there? No, but Im not worried about them, Im worried about my paycheck and my benefits. If asked my opinion I give it and dont shy away from how I feel. I was recently offered a union steward position and I turned it down because I disagreed with how the union protected some people I work with. Am I speaking out of both sides of my mouth? Yes, but you should see a pattern, I worry about myself and myself only.

If someone offers you more money for less productivity will you say no? If you will then you are a saint by many people but that doesnt make sense to me and many others.

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Bad example for me, literally a stones throw away got $32k an acre. My neighborhood was late to the game and didn't sign a lease. We've been offered $3k since.
Im sorry to hear but do you blame the neighbors for signing or should they have turned it down because $32k/acre is too much by some peoples standards?
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post #18 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:47 PM
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Im sorry to hear but do you blame the neighbors for signing or should they have turned it down because $32k/acre is too much by some peoples standards?
I think a more accurate portayal would be if you were getting 32K/acre for years but at some point the land became less profitable - wells were going dry. You were offered 16K/acre or they would pack up and move on leaving you nothing. That seems more like what's going on, right?
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post #19 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:49 PM
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Id like to see anyone take a 50% pay cut at their jobs and stay there hahah

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #20 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:51 PM
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I think a more accurate portayal would be if you were getting 32K/acre for years but at some point the land became less profitable - wells were going dry. You were offered 16K/acre or they would pack up and move on leaving you nothing. That seems more like what's going on, right?
We just missed the boat, it'll be back around eventually. Plenty of shale under my neighborhood.

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post #21 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:52 PM
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Id like to see anyone take a 50% pay cut at their jobs and stay there hahah
COnsidering the other alternative,unemployment,how was this a good decision? Unemployment here pays like $400 a week max. Even the $15 an hour is more than that. At some point,common sense has to come into play. But leave it to the dumbfuck union reps to fuck it up. Meanwhile,they get paid regardless.
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post #22 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:55 PM
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Id like to see anyone take a 50% pay cut at their jobs and stay there hahah
I sure as hell would. A 50% cut is better than 100%!

Don't get me wrong, I would immediately start looking for another job, but I would at least still have money coming in. And benefits too. Especially with the way things have been the last couple years.
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post #23 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 06:57 PM
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We just missed the boat, it'll be back around eventually. Plenty of shale under my neighborhood.
I think that's what the Union guys are thinking. Much more plausible in your case though.
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post #24 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 07:20 PM
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Id like to see anyone take a 50% pay cut at their jobs and stay there hahah
I'm making about 1/2 the money on my houses I was 2 years ago. What's the difference? Hell, I've even got my money on the line.

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post #25 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 07:21 PM
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But it's 60% better than nothing.
Infinitely.
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post #26 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 07:28 PM
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Infinitely.
Well played.
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post #27 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 07:41 PM
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COnsidering the other alternative,unemployment,how was this a good decision? Unemployment here pays like $400 a week max. Even the $15 an hour is more than that. At some point,common sense has to come into play. But leave it to the dumbfuck union reps to fuck it up. Meanwhile,they get paid regardless.
You've missed the boat big time. The vast majority of guys that work at that plant will just transfer to a different plant and keep on making $29 an hour thanks to a little thing called seniority. Granted a few of the youngest guys might have to stand in the unemployment line for a few months but once a spot opens up at another factory they will be offered that job first over joe blow off the street. Plus by the time you factor in your gas, lunch, and time spent at work it pays more to be unemployed than to take a 40% pay cut. IF they would have voted to take this paycut they would have opened a can a worms that couldn't be contained. In a few more months the UAW will be in contract negotiations with the big 3. What do you think the big 3 would offer the UAW after they just agreed to a 40% paycut. Jackshit.

Once the union signs one contract the company uses it as precendent to set all the other contracts. Thats why on the Railroad the Engineer's Union, Conductor's Union, Carman's Union, and MoW union all agree to not sign their individual contract until everyother union has a contract that they like in place. Then they all sign on the same day. If one union jumped the gun and settled for shit the Railroad would force all the other unions to take the same shit.

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post #28 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 07:56 PM
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working fo half is standard nowadays i dont know what they are complaining about. my job is available in 4 weeks for anyone interested.

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post #29 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 08:38 PM
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You people act like there is only one job for any one person. If my boss comes to me with a proposal like that tomorrow, I will have a different job. So my options aren't half or nothing.

I can not stand working with lazy bastards, and most unions shelter their people so much that it's impossible to cull the herd. If I'm in a position where I cannot get ahead because of seniority rules, then I will leave. Plain and simple, I'm a competitive guy. I WILL produce more than most people at the given task, and I expect to advance or be compensated because of it.

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post #30 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 08:51 PM
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Id like to see anyone take a 50% pay cut at their jobs and stay there hahah
As a recent business owner, i had to take a 100% pay cut for a few months. I would have gladly traded the 100% cut for a 50% cut.

I don't own that business anymore.
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post #31 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 09:03 PM
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FWIW, that cut is more than 40%...about 46.5%.
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post #32 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 09:32 PM
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FWIW, that cut is more than 40%...about 46.5%.
I didn't even read the post.

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post #33 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 09:37 PM
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I didn't even read the post.
Ha, yeah, just saying...it's a bigger cut than some are posting.
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post #34 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 09:49 PM
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Ha, yeah, just saying...it's a bigger cut than some are posting.
Thats typical media covering union members. Paycuts get rounded down and workers salaries are rounded way way up!
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post #35 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 09:52 PM
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Thats typical media covering union members. Paycuts get rounded down and workers salaries are rounded way way up!
Well, the media did say "almost 50%" in this article.
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post #36 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 09:55 PM
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Well, the media did say "almost 50%" in this article.
Well I didnt read the article either
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post #37 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 10:02 PM
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You've missed the boat big time. The vast majority of guys that work at that plant will just transfer to a different plant and keep on making $29 an hour thanks to a little thing called seniority. Granted a few of the youngest guys might have to stand in the unemployment line for a few months but once a spot opens up at another factory they will be offered that job first over joe blow off the street. Plus by the time you factor in your gas, lunch, and time spent at work it pays more to be unemployed than to take a 40% pay cut. IF they would have voted to take this paycut they would have opened a can a worms that couldn't be contained. In a few more months the UAW will be in contract negotiations with the big 3. What do you think the big 3 would offer the UAW after they just agreed to a 40% paycut. Jackshit.

Once the union signs one contract the company uses it as precendent to set all the other contracts. Thats why on the Railroad the Engineer's Union, Conductor's Union, Carman's Union, and MoW union all agree to not sign their individual contract until everyother union has a contract that they like in place. Then they all sign on the same day. If one union jumped the gun and settled for shit the Railroad would force all the other unions to take the same shit.
This comes from a "token union member"
Therefore it doesn't mean a fucking thing. Other than you,and others like you,are the cause of problems like this.
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post #38 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 10:26 PM
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This comes from a "token union member"
Therefore it doesn't mean a fucking thing. Other than you,and others like you,are the cause of problems like this.
You don't know him or his work ethic, so do us all a favor and watch your fucking mouth.

Unions were made in a time when they were a necessary. Unfortunately businesses have found out that they can absolutely fuck the vast majority of the workforce, and the unions have found that they can absolutely fuck the industries that they're involved in.

If businesses were more ethical, Unions probably would have never existed. I would love to see an increase in ethical business but that isn't going to happen. Unions in many cases are the parasite that gets too hungry.

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post #39 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 10:31 PM
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You don't know him or his work ethic, so do us all a favor and watch your fucking mouth.

Unions were made in a time when they were a necessary. Unfortunately businesses have found out that they can absolutely fuck the vast majority of the workforce, and the unions have found that they can absolutely fuck the industries that they're involved in.

If businesses were more ethical, Unions probably would have never existed. I would love to see an increase in ethical business but that isn't going to happen. Unions in many cases are the parasite that gets too hungry.
Look bud,I simply stated my opinion. whether you like it or not,doesn't change it. I need not know him or his work ethic to read his user title,token union member.
His opinion of unions is as useless as my opinion of,or me defending,the airlines I work for. I have a vested interest in the success of the airlines. Therefore my opinion doesnt mean shit to the average customer the airline is fucking to death.
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post #40 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by slo3gt View Post
Look bud,I simply stated my opinion. whether you like it or not,doesn't change it. I need not know him or his work ethic to read his user title,token union member.
His opinion of unions is as useless as my opinion of,or me defending,the airlines I work for. I have a vested interest in the success of the airlines. Therefore my opinion doesnt mean shit to the average customer the airline is fucking to death.
Well bud, just because you're a part of something doesn't mean that your opinion is any more or less correct than anyone else's. So if a discussion came up about airlines, and you voiced your opinion, then I would take it into consideration just like anyone else. The only reason that I wouldn't, is if someone tried to hide their affiliation with a group.

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post #41 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 10:42 PM
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The free market will continue to kill off most unions... some will last longer than others due to the nature of the industry, or various government incentives that can offset additional labor costs. In the end its all about the $, and profit motive will always win.

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post #42 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slo3gt View Post
Look bud,I simply stated my opinion. whether you like it or not,doesn't change it. I need not know him or his work ethic to read his user title,token union member.
His opinion of unions is as useless as my opinion of,or me defending,the airlines I work for. I have a vested interest in the success of the airlines. Therefore my opinion doesnt mean shit to the average customer the airline is fucking to death.
So what does him being in the railroad union have to do with a UAW contract? Thats about as retarded as saying your an american so anything you say regarding US policies and practices shouldnt be considered since you have a vested interest.

Im union and I posted about how many of the union people I work with are lazy fucks so how biased is that?
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post #43 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 11:28 PM
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The main reason why I post in threads about unions is to give people an honest look inside a union so they can form their own opinions about unions right, wrong or indifferent.

I've worked both union and non union jobs and I'll take the union job over the non union job any day of the week. Contrary to popular belief no it's not because I'm lazy. Most folks won't beleive this but I work harder at my union job and put up with more bullshit than I ever did at a non union job. For starters I have a minimum of a 12hr work day and find my self working 14 to 15hr days at least two to three times a week. Add in the fact that I'm forced to work weekends, nights, and holidays and I have no scheduled days off. Also factor in that I'm forced to work outside in all weather conditions. I'm scheduled to be on call 24/7 and when the phone rings I'm expected to show up to work with in 2 hours. Not many non union companies would expect this out of their workers.


I along with alot of my fellow union members get pissed off at the few idiots or lazy bastards that work with us. I've brought this up to several Local Chairman and their response is they don't like that they have to protect the few bad apples, but you have to take the good with the bad. The flip side of the coin is that since the idiots are protected that means if you do your job and take pride in your work you will have nothing to worry about. If they won't fire the idiots they surely won't fire a guy that does his job. I don't agree with this system, but thats the way it is and lets be honest. I don't give a shit where you work union or not, there is always the select few that are lazy as shit and dumb as can be but they manage to keep their job and collect a paycheck every week.

The unions provide one of the last places where a good old boy that might not have a college education can still earn a great living and provide a great middle class lifestyle for his family. Alot of college grads who now bash unions owe their degree's to a union. Look back at your father and your grandfather and it might suprise you that they belonged to a union back in the day . That union paycheck paid for your college degree and allowed you to pole vault into the next tax bracket. Unions also provide awesome health care and great pensions. Both of these things are endangered species in the non union sector and it's a sad thing. Corporate America has sold people on the raw deal of an idea called a 401k. If you don't beleive me ask your father if he'd trade his 401k for your grandfather's pension. I bet 95% of the time he'd do it in a heart beat.

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post #44 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-28-2010, 11:34 PM
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The main reason why I post in threads about unions is to give people an honest look inside a union so they can form their own opinions about unions right, wrong or indifferent. Also remember that no two unions are alike.

I've worked both union and non union jobs and I'll take the union job over the non union job any day of the week. Contrary to popular belief no it's not because I'm lazy. Most folks won't beleive this but I work harder at my union job and put up with more bullshit than I ever did at a non union job. For starters I have a minimum of a 12hr work day and find my self working 14 to 15hr days at least two to three times a week. Add in the fact that I'm forced to work weekends, nights, and holidays and I have no scheduled days off. Also factor in that I'm forced to work outside in all weather conditions. I'm scheduled to be on call 24/7 and when the phone rings I'm expected to show up to work with in 2 hours. Not many non union companies would expect this out of their workers.


I along with alot of my fellow union members get pissed off at the few idiots or lazy bastards that work with us. I've brought this up to several Local Chairman and their response is they don't like that they have to protect the few bad apples, but you have to take the good with the bad. The flip side of the coin is that since the idiots are protected that means if you do your job and take pride in your work you will have nothing to worry about. If they won't fire the idiots they surely won't fire a guy that does his job. I don't agree with this system, but thats the way it is and lets be honest. I don't give a shit where you work union or not, there is always the select few that are lazy as shit and dumb as can be but they manage to keep their job and collect a paycheck every week.

The unions provide one of the last places where a good old boy that might not have a college education can still earn a great living and provide a great middle class lifestyle for his family. Alot of college grads who now bash unions owe their degree's to a union. Look back at your father and your grandfather and it might suprise you that they belonged to a union back in the day . That union paycheck paid for your college degree and allowed you to pole vault into the next tax bracket. Unions also provide awesome health care and great pensions. Both of these things are endangered species in the non union sector and it's a sad thing. Corporate America has sold people on the raw deal of an idea called a 401k. If you don't beleive me ask your father if he'd trade his 401k for your grandfather's pension. I bet 95% of the time he'd do it in a heart beat.

TRAIN TRASH it's like WHITE TRASH but with money.

My other vehicle is a Locomotive.

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post #45 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 06:12 AM
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I can't see how the UAW workers fucked up on this one. They had two options.

1. Take a 50% pay cut and keep working at that specific factory.

or

2. Tell them to fuck off. Wait for the factory to close. Then just relocate to another factory with no pay cut. This is exactly what is going to happen to most of the workers at that plant. I've also read that a lot of them already qualify for pensions and are just going to retire.

Those are the options of MOST of those workers. Why take a pay cut when you don't have to.

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post #46 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThreeFingerPete View Post
You don't know him or his work ethic, so do us all a favor and watch your fucking mouth.

Unions were made in a time when they were a necessary. Unfortunately businesses have found out that they can absolutely fuck the vast majority of the workforce, and the unions have found that they can absolutely fuck the industries that they're involved in.

If businesses were more ethical, Unions probably would have never existed. I would love to see an increase in ethical business but that isn't going to happen. Unions in many cases are the parasite that gets too hungry.
you're such a bad ass...

err...you have mental problems. I swear half of your posts with any "emphasis" are some sort of attack or threat.
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post #47 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 06:37 AM
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Just think,if they continue doing things like this,they WILLnegotiate themselves out of a job.
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post #48 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slo3gt View Post
This comes from a "token union member"
Therefore it doesn't mean a fucking thing. Other than you,and others like you,are the cause of problems like this.
Freight is cool. He'd be a hard working motherfucker whether he was union or not. He isn't the cause of the problem and if all union workers were like Freight and corporate actually appreciated workers like Freight there wouldn't be a need for unions.

Freight, no one in my family has ever worked union including grandparents except for my younger brother who was forced to join. He resisted but you do know the politics involved. He has been passed up on jobs even though he had more experience for the task at hand because some dolt who transferred in when his department downsized and is still learning the task had more years at the company in a different area. Sucks but it is what it is.

My 401K is now a 400K (was 301K)
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post #49 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 06:51 AM
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what is never brought up is the impact their decision will have on the community as a whole. there are many small business people who depend on that factory. not only will the metal plant close but so will countless small business's around it. look what the steel industry did. i think the day of the union is numbered. it does not serve the same cause it was originated for. my dad was a teamster as was i at one time. fuck seniority , if i'm better qualified i should do the job.

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post #50 of 89 (permalink) Old 09-29-2010, 07:11 AM
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Great another "I hate fucking unions" thread.
Let's see, I take a 50% pay cut. Still got house payment, car payment, daycare, food, gas, insurance, bla bla bla. Maybe I'll just make a call to all parties concerned and they will all reduce my payments by half. Then I can work just as hard as I did yesterday for half the money today.
Really just how many union bashers have ever held a union job. I'll bet not many.
Are there lazy fucks in these union shops, you bet your ass there is.
Are there lazy fucks at your non-union job, you bet your ass.
If you don't want to work in a union shop then DON'T. It's your choice. By that same token it's MY choice if I do.
I've been a Teamster for nearly 30 years. I make good money have good benefits and will retire with monthly pension and insurance.
So again if you have some personal objection to unions then by all means don't take a union job. At the same time please don't make comments all full of piss and vinegar when in reality you know little or nothing about unions.
But then I'd be pissed if I was non-union and already working for 50% less!
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