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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 08:09 AM Thread Starter
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No US Air Superiority

http://www.military.com/news/article...RC=airforce.nl

Exiting AF Intel Chief: No US Air Superiority
Lt. Gen. David Deptula
September 15, 2010
Stars and Stripes|by Kevin Baron

OXON HILL, Md. -- The U.S. Air Force’s former top intelligence officer warned a roomful of generals this week that the U.S. has lost its air power advantages and is dangerously ill-prepared to stop the gap-closing efforts of China and Russia.

Lt. Gen. David Deptula, a former F-15 pilot, challenged Defense Secretary Robert Gates’ fundamental belief that U.S. air power vastly overmatches any foreign military.

“For the first time, our claim to air supremacy is in jeopardy,” Deptula told the Air Force Association’s national convention on Monday.


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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 08:13 AM
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We should build more helicopters!

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 08:18 AM
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It's no big deal, we'll just beat them with diplomacy!
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We should build more helicopters!
Not without Roy Scheider


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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 08:20 AM
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It's no big deal, we'll just beat them with diplomacy! Not without Roy Scheider
Now I have to google roy scheider

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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 08:23 AM
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But they told us that modern warfare didn't require an up to date Air Force....

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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 08:24 AM
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Now I have to google roy scheider
Jaws, Blue Thunder, SeaQuest, Thomas Jane's father in The Punisher...


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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 08:40 AM
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Jaws, Blue Thunder, SeaQuest, Thomas Jane's father in The Punisher...
Haha I thought his name was schneider. It's like I just learned I have been singing the wrong lyrics to a song for years.

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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 09:04 AM
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why continue to build the F22 if it has already been compromised by the chinese?

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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 09:06 AM
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It's no big deal, we'll just beat them with diplomacy!
Obammy can always grovel, that'll show 'em the U.S. is second to no one militarily.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 09:46 AM
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why continue to build the F22 if it has already been compromised by the chinese?
You are right, we should skip to the next plane and build it. Of course it will be compromised by the Chinese too. Brilliant!

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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 09:51 AM
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Hey I've got an idea, let's compromise the Chinese!
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 10:09 AM
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I'm curious as to how much of the massive Chinese military's equipment actually works. That country has never been known for QC in ANYTHING.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 10:11 AM
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The F-35 never was never intended to be an air-dominance fighter....

It will be great at what it was designed for... multi-role
(similar in missions to the F-16)

IMO, The huge reduction in orders of the F-22 was a huge loss.
(187 friggin planes including spares and trainers)

Thank God we at least kept the tooling for the plane....
guaranteed the lines will start back up within 10 years....
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 10:25 AM
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This "Exiting" General is probably leaving the Airforce and walking right into a job with Lockheed. So he voiced his concerns to guarantee job security for the future.
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 10:26 AM
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the problem with the F22 is that it went up in cost by about 10 million dollars each year, and for decades our government continued to give them more money for a plane that we just recently started taking deliveries on. time is money, Lockheed knew it, thats why they took their time designing and building this aircraft.

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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 11:10 AM
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the problem with the F22 is that it went up in cost by about 10 million dollars each year, and for decades our government continued to give them more money for a plane that we just recently started taking deliveries on. time is money, Lockheed knew it, thats why they took their time designing and building this aircraft.
So they deliberately raised costs even though they knew full well the program could be canceled\stunted because of it?

Do you know anything about military procurement programs?
(especially one this high profile?)


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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 11:14 AM
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So they deliberately raised costs even though they knew full well the program could be canceled\stunted because of it?

Do you know anything about military procurement programs?
(especially one this high profile?)

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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 11:48 AM
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As much as I hate to say it, the F22 will be obsolete sooner than you might think.

http://www.gizmag.com/boeing-to-deve...n-x-45c/11636/

This is one example of the future. With Boeing's rapid prototyping capability I think we'll see the first acquisition program within a decade.

A UAV fighter won't just be more stealthy (because it is smaller) it will be INFINITELY more maneuverable than anything else in the air due to there being no pilot on board to hold it back. It "should" be significantly more affordable as well.

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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 11:58 AM
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As much as I hate to say it, the F22 will be obsolete sooner than you might think.

http://www.gizmag.com/boeing-to-deve...n-x-45c/11636/

This is one example of the future. With Boeing's rapid prototyping capability I think we'll see the first acquisition program within a decade.

A UAV fighter won't just be more stealthy (because it is smaller) it will be INFINITELY more maneuverable than anything else in the air due to there being no pilot on board to hold it back. It "should" be significantly more affordable as well.
LMAO...you've never worked on a program dealing with Boeings "rapid prototyping capabilities" have you?

EVERY large company can rapid prototype...but for some reason airplanes aren't made of epoxy, plaster, nylon...or any other SLS/SLA/PMD.

I think you're on a good path with unmanned however. Missiles can travel very far as well...
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 08:16 AM
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the problem with the F22 is that it went up in cost by about 10 million dollars each year, and for decades our government continued to give them more money for a plane that we just recently started taking deliveries on. time is money, Lockheed knew it, thats why they took their time designing and building this aircraft.

The cost of the planes changed in part because the dollar lost value.

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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 08:34 AM
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Gogo F22!!!

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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 10:19 AM
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Who'd have predicted this when they reduced the F-22 numbers??

And with UAVs, the Chinese will just need to hack into the operating frequencies to know we're coming. Heck, they probably could just hack the flight controls and crash 'em all.
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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 11:40 AM
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As much as I hate to say it, the F22 will be obsolete sooner than you might think.

http://www.gizmag.com/boeing-to-deve...n-x-45c/11636/

This is one example of the future. With Boeing's rapid prototyping capability I think we'll see the first acquisition program within a decade.

A UAV fighter won't just be more stealthy (because it is smaller) it will be INFINITELY more maneuverable than anything else in the air due to there being no pilot on board to hold it back. It "should" be significantly more affordable as well.
Problem with UAV's. They can be jammed, they can be out manuevered, they can be defeated by different methods.

A sidewinder missile is very VERY manueverable compared to a F-15, yet a F-15 can defeat it by throwing out flares, and doing manuevers that the computer doesn't expect.

The thing about the F-22 is that you have a man in the cockpit. It can not be jammed and the only way to stop the plane is to hit it.

With UAV's you can knock out a communications satellite and in a instant, you disable all the UAV's in the theater. Or you can electronically jam them.

Obama axed the F-22, and lets hope the next president brings it back.

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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-23-2010, 01:08 PM
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Problem with UAV's. They can be jammed, they can be out manuevered, they can be defeated by different methods.

A sidewinder missile is very VERY manueverable compared to a F-15, yet a F-15 can defeat it by throwing out flares, and doing manuevers that the computer doesn't expect.

The thing about the F-22 is that you have a man in the cockpit. It can not be jammed and the only way to stop the plane is to hit it.

With UAV's you can knock out a communications satellite and in a instant, you disable all the UAV's in the theater. Or you can electronically jam them.

Obama axed the F-22, and lets hope the next president brings it back.
Of everything you've listed, Jamming is the only one that is a legit concern. However, i predict we'll probably be using an AI on our UAVs either as the primary or backup control. Scary shit, but they are already working on it.

Even if a human pilot out thinks a UAV, he still can't out maneuver it. A human pilot can take about 9 to 10 Gs for a limited time. A UAV can pull 20G or more and do it consistently for long periods of time. You're sidewinder comparison is valid but the sidewinder is a very limited system compared to the UAVs they are working on. A Sidewinder just looks for a heat signature and goes after it. It has some ability to distinguish between heat signature but that's about it. The tech they're working on now can visually identify an aircraft. Hell, they can even look at the control surfaces from a distance and anticipate what the human pilot is about to do.

It won't happen tomorrow but the day is coming. The 5th generation fighter is the LAST of the manned fighters.

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