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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-21-2010, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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I can't believe some of the kids these days and what they think. Yes, I am a high school student just like this guy, but damn, people are dumb as shit. These people had been talking about God in governement, then this clown posted this.

HIM:
A government and nation that "answers to a higher power" is the absolute opposite of what we need. That is the key part of the "restoration of the principles, ideals, values implemented by our founding fathers" that you want. Don't get me w...rong, I support morality, but in reality there is a fine line between what is moral in your eyes and what is a right entitled to every person in this nation. The idea of God playing a role in the government is a terrible idea. This nation was founded upon religious freedom and there is a separation of church and state. So you can believe what you want on your own time, but that will not play a role in how the country is governed. We have bigger issues than the ones you speak of now: An economic decline that is strangling our nation, two military conflicts that are completely meaningless (by the way, if we were following the ideals of our founding fathers we would not be "liberating these countries"), the encroachment of the radical far right and tea-party conservatives and their senseless war path upon any efforts being made towards honest equality, justice, and ultimately peace, corporations ruining small business and local economies, the national debt, the looming social security problems of the future, etc, etc, etc, etc, the list goes on and on and on and on. It's pretty ridiculous to worry about a restoration of ideals ("RESTORE HONOR? *cough cough* Glen Beck *cough*) when we have SO much on our hands and the fundamentalist, conservative right has no real solution at all and no supporting plans or ideas behind any of there propositions, requests, and arguments. The liberals have the countries best interest. Also, don't make a stupid remark about communism when you obviously don't know what true communism is and you only know of the bad light it was put in by bad men and the propaganda that was forced down your throat via media and education by your capitalist, imperialistic monster of a government who is fabricating enemies and pointing fingers in order to expand. They will tell you and show you only what they want in order to obtain what they desire ( in the name of God). Where's the liberty and freedom for all in that? Wake up and take a stand for what is right!

This is my reply. I didnt cover all points, but had to speak up:

I quote you,

"the encroachment of the radical far right and tea-party conservatives and their senseless war path upon any efforts being made towards honest equality, justice, and ultimately peace, corporations ruining small business and loca...l economies".

You obivously do not understand what the Tea party stands for and how small businesses SUPPORT the Tea Party. The current administration believes that if we cut taxes (extend Bush tax cuts) for people making under $250k, this will stimulate the economy, and create jobs and make things easier on the middle class. This is simply un-true. In order to stimulate the economy, you must give tax cuts to BIG corporations and people making $250k(gross)+ a year. The reasoning behind that idea is that the lower income citizens are not the people who have businesses that can hire people. If we cut taxes for the wealthy and big corporations, they can lower the cost of their product and create more jobs. These are jobs that will be created and generate tax revenue. If we give tax breaks to lesser income people, that will not stimulate the economy. Just look at how Ronald Regan handled the economy. He cut the individual tax rates 23%, and the top rates dropped from 70% to 50%, basically a big tax break for big businesses. They lowered the bottom bracket only 3%. This increased government tax revenue because it created MORE jobs.

The fact is that these Liberal Extremists have there head shoved so far up each others asses. Government has expanded so much since Obama took office it is not even funny. All of his "Change" bullshit is a joke. He is nothing but a talking head, or celebrity. He is the worst, most Liberal president we have ever had. Nothing he has done has had a positive impact. Bottom line is that the Stimulus has failed, un-employment is still at 9.5%+, and we keep printing ungodly amounts of money and are inflating our currency.

Look up Executive Order 13489. It was an executive order Obama signed into office his first day. It barres the release of any documents regarding his birthdate or birthplace. Does this sound like transparency to you? Does this sound like someone has something to hide? He is as American as Ghandi.

Welfare needs to be abolished. Want to save the economy? Lets go ahead and drug test everyone who is currently receiving government assistance, and all those who test positive for drugs will be dropped. Studies show as much as 70% of people on welfare are drug users. Is this fair? Is this what the Constitution and capitalism stands for? No, this is pure SOCIALISM. Taking away from people who do the right thing and forcing them to pay for others.

The Constitution was created and advertised partially on the fact that is incorporated ideas from the Protestant religion. Do you know who John Winthrop is? I guess not.

I can't stand these kids who think that it is "nice" to be a democrat and give to less fortunate. Those who think war is terrible and unnecessary, those who think that GOP members are just a bunch of gun toting rednecks. I wish that some people will use common sense, I guess that is beyond you.

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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-21-2010, 09:37 PM
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The kid sounds like a proud product of the liberal dominated education system. They should be proud.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-21-2010, 10:10 PM
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A lot of what you've written there is pretty good stuff. Debatable one way or another but good stuff.

What I would caution you on is the more conspiratorial stuff like that Executive order. The fact is that, that order only deals with Presidential documents. Presidential documents are documents that are "generated" by an administration "during" its tenure. The fact is that GWB had a very similar executive order. Also, things like birth certificates are STATE records. The US archivist doesn't have the ability or authority to lock those down, no matter how much one might wish it..

My point to a lot of my fellow conservatives is this. There is a GARGANTUAN amount of logic and reason to throw Obama under the bus and win most political arguments. So why even bother with the conspiracy theories. The problem with conspiracy theories and such is that you end up looking like a nut. Most conspiracy theorists are either nuts or, much worse, they are using bullshit to sell something or push an agenda. Most folks with common sense see through the bullshit really quickly so I try to avoid it as much as possible.

The thing is that Obama has totally fucked his political future with his present day actions. Use those to actions to form your arguments. There isn't any need for the bullshit. He has dug a hole with his own bullshit. All we need to do is bury him with it.

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-21-2010, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sgt Beavis View Post
A lot of what you've written there is pretty good stuff. Debatable one way or another but good stuff.

What I would caution you on is the more conspiratorial stuff like that Executive order. The fact is that, that order only deals with Presidential documents. Presidential documents are documents that are "generated" by an administration "during" its tenure. The fact is that GWB had a very similar executive order. Also, things like birth certificates are STATE records. The US archivist doesn't have the ability or authority to lock those down, no matter how much one might wish it..

My point to a lot of my fellow conservatives is this. There is a GARGANTUAN amount of logic and reason to throw Obama under the bus and win most political arguments. So why even bother with the conspiracy theories. The problem with conspiracy theories and such is that you end up looking like a nut. Most conspiracy theorists are either nuts or, much worse, they are using bullshit to sell something or push an agenda. Most folks with common sense see through the bullshit really quickly so I try to avoid it as much as possible.

The thing is that Obama has totally fucked his political future with his present day actions. Use those to actions to form your arguments. There isn't any need for the bullshit. He has dug a hole with his own bullshit. All we need to do is bury him with it.

Agreed. I understand what your saying. I am seriously fed up with these kids though and the bullshit school teaches. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I go to a school were everyone is really wealthy. Half of the parking lot is lifted trucks, MB, and brand new cars. Not a lot of people drive "first cars". I think that the fact that parents now "give" everything to kids and don't teach them might be some of the reason for this entitlement mentality. I believe that makes sense. Hell, I almost feel like the last conservative in school, and I'm a god damn Canadian. I am the only Conservative in my Debate class. It's hillarious.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 89gt-stanger View Post
You obivously do not understand what the Tea party stands for and how small businesses SUPPORT the Tea Party. The current administration believes that if we cut taxes (extend Bush tax cuts) for people making under $250k, this will stimulate the economy, and create jobs and make things easier on the middle class. This is simply un-true. In order to stimulate the economy, you must give tax cuts to BIG corporations and people making $250k(gross)+ a year. The reasoning behind that idea is that the lower income citizens are not the people who have businesses that can hire people. If we cut taxes for the wealthy and big corporations, they can lower the cost of their product and create more jobs. These are jobs that will be created and generate tax revenue. If we give tax breaks to lesser income people, that will not stimulate the economy. Just look at how Ronald Regan handled the economy. He cut the individual tax rates 23%, and the top rates dropped from 70% to 50%, basically a big tax break for big businesses. They lowered the bottom bracket only 3%. This increased government tax revenue because it created MORE jobs.
That worked how well so far? Using any metric you want let me from 2000-2008 and tell me where the Bush cuts created a net positive: median income, stock market returns, economic growth...

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. What we're being told now is to avoid the repeat of the past decade we must have the exact same tax policies as the past decade.

The same people who told us back in 1993 we'd kill the economy and stock market when the tax rates were raised.

And just so everyone is clear on a couple of points: 1) I will be affected by the expiring tax cuts on the "rich" (I don't consider myself "rich" by any means) and 2) I'm a small business owner. Revenues are in the millions but we're still a small business employing less than 20 employees.

If the rates expire I'm looking at an additional 15K in fed taxes and if the republican or democrat plan is adopted as they currently look I'll pay an additional 7-8K depending on the plan.

My 401K is now a 400K (was 301K)
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra View Post
That worked how well so far? Using any metric you want let me from 2000-2008 and tell me where the Bush cuts created a net positive: median income, stock market returns, economic growth...

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. What we're being told now is to avoid the repeat of the past decade we must have the exact same tax policies as the past decade.

The same people who told us back in 1993 we'd kill the economy and stock market when the tax rates were raised.

And just so everyone is clear on a couple of points: 1) I will be affected by the expiring tax cuts on the "rich" (I don't consider myself "rich" by any means) and 2) I'm a small business owner. Revenues are in the millions but we're still a small business employing less than 20 employees.

If the rates expire I'm looking at an additional 15K in fed taxes and if the republican or democrat plan is adopted as they currently look I'll pay an additional 7-8K depending on the plan.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 11:17 AM
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I think of you every time I read "The Back Story."

http://www.rense.com/general84/letter.htm
LOL.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to pay less taxes than my current 6 figures (across all levels of government.) My company was started with $2,500 in a checking account. We made employees build their own office depot desks and office depot file cabinets when they joined. My first desk was an old door and some cinder blocks. We graduated to buying second hand furniture.

But the reality is until the current situation is corrected and the deficit whittled down and debt paid down we need to pay some taxes.

Whether my tax rate is raised or my tax rate is lowered isn't going to make a hill of difference in capital investment, employee hiring or firing. It is determined by other factors not whether the government taxes me at 35% or 39% on the marginal.

My 401K is now a 400K (was 301K)
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 12:02 PM
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I dont mind paying a tad more taxes if I could see some improvement, however, the fucktards in power now spend WAY more than they can hope to bring in. It's frustrating that we have to suffer for poor decisions by others...govt and lazies.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 12:14 PM
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I dont mind paying a tad more taxes if I could see some improvement, however, the fucktards in power now spend WAY more than they can hope to bring in. It's frustrating that we have to suffer for poor decisions by others...govt and lazies.
Exactly. I have yet to see any sort of analysis that makes a logical case as to why higher taxes would do anything different than lower taxes would. I believe that cheap easy credit and hysteria have more to do with the state of the economy than taxes ever will.

I do know that higher taxes will eventually make government bigger than it is. During the next upswing in the economy, any surplus generated by higher taxes will be squandered in a meaningless manner.

We need less spending by government.

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Last edited by AL P; 09-22-2010 at 01:05 PM.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 12:58 PM
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exactly. I have yet to see any sort of analysis that makes a logical case as to why higher taxes would do anything different than lower taxes would. I believe that cheap easy credit and hysteria have more to do with the state of the economy than taxes every will.

I do know that higher taxes will eventually make government bigger than it is. During the next upswing in the economy, any surplus generated by higher taxes will be squandered in a meaningless manner.

We need less spending by government.
quoted for the mother fuckin' truth!!!

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 01:20 PM
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Until we cut spending on useless shit like entitlement programs and foreign aid, our tax rate won't make much of a difference. Its like raising or lowering the credit line on a credit card. Either you are responsible or you aren't. If you aren't your shit will be maxed out and you will never get it paid off.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 01:27 PM
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Back in the great despression all kinds of tax cuts and economic stimulus attempts were made but didn't help. You know what did? Fucking WWII. WWII created tons of jobs for Americans. I'm not a fan of war, but it's been around since the beginning of man and will always be around and when it comes to global economics, war definitely has it's place.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 01:47 PM
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Until we cut spending on useless shit like entitlement programs and foreign aid, our tax rate won't make much of a difference. Its like raising or lowering the credit line on a credit card. Either you are responsible or you aren't. If you aren't your shit will be maxed out and you will never get it paid off.
Entitlements are the real issue. Foreign aide is a drop in the bucket.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 01:54 PM
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Back in the great despression all kinds of tax cuts and economic stimulus attempts were made but didn't help. You know what did? Fucking WWII. WWII created tons of jobs for Americans. I'm not a fan of war, but it's been around since the beginning of man and will always be around and when it comes to global economics, war definitely has it's place.
Show me where there were any tax cuts in the Great Depression..


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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 02:14 PM
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Show me where there were any tax cuts in the Great Depression..


I'm just going off of memory from history in college which was a long time ago. I knew that a lot of different things were done to try and stimulate the economy and I figured tax breaks were a part of that.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 04:15 PM
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As has been said before - until you show me a concrete plan to curb spending, i'm not at all interested in paying higher taxes. Because you know it will be squandered, and then they'll be back asking yet again for more. Its a vicious cycle.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 04:22 PM
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As has been said before - until you show me a concrete plan to curb spending, i'm not at all interested in paying higher taxes. Because you know it will be squandered, and then they'll be back asking yet again for more. Its a vicious cycle.
I was talking to a guy from Sweden on another board and he said that about 75% of his total income goes to taxes. 75% of the price of gasoline is taxes and his employer is also taxed for roughly 25% of what they pay him.

And it is no different there than it is here, that is, the government doesn't have enough money, Old people don't have enough retirement, etc, etc

It is funny what kind of things you can learn when you talk to someone who has lived the socialist dream!

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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 08:39 PM
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Socialism is the enemy. Do not forget it. You cannot make everyone equal by robbing those willing to work and giving to those that are not. All you do is make the people willing to work less productive.
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-22-2010, 08:41 PM
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Off topic but what high school do you go to? Central or Keller?

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