Fort Worth needs to declare bankruptcy to void these deal - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 05:35 AM Thread Starter
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Fort Worth needs to declare bankruptcy to void these deal

http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/09...bble-will.html

Stupidity for people to expect tax payors to pay someone twice the annual income for a family for the US for the next 30+ years.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 05:43 AM
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Let them keep doing what they are doing now, it will end shortly.

That has been my solution to all these city level issues, they can't raise taxes so let the unions run the cities into bankruptcy. There have been a few places where it has already happened.
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 06:56 AM
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 07:13 AM
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Ft Worth signed the deal, now they have to figure out a way to deal with it.

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 07:45 AM
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Ft Worth signed the deal, now they have to figure out a way to deal with it.
Exactly. As stated in the article:

....and their promises have to be kept.

Councilman Carter Burdette is right to say the only solution is to increase contributions and reduce benefits. But the city keeps being told that it can't cut benefits, because it's blocked by contracts with fire and police, a state constitutional amendment and rulings from the attorney general.


The City issued a contract with their employees, now they legally have to abide by same. It may not seem fair today, but where were all these complaints against it years ago when the private sector was booming?
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 07:50 AM Thread Starter
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It may not seem fair today, but where were all these complaints against it years ago when the private sector was booming?
Where in the private secotr do people make $90k+ a year in retirement at the 50 years old?
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 07:55 AM
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Let them keep doing what they are doing now, it will end shortly.

That has been my solution to all these city level issues, they can't raise taxes so let the unions run the cities into bankruptcy. There have been a few places where it has already happened.
QFT...

At this point they are just delaying the inevitable.

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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 08:00 AM
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FTW will be just like Detroit in a couple years. I dont think that LEOs or Fire employees or other city employee deserves any retirement other than what they invest in just like the average citizen in the private sector. Do away with ALL retirement plans and dont let state employees bank sick pay so they can get cash at the end of the year (use it or lose it). This should free up some revenue.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 12:16 PM
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Where in the private secotr do people make $90k+ a year in retirement at the 50 years old?
The private sector conditions existing today with respect to retirement and other benefits are often bad indeed. You and others overlook the fact that these public sector workers retiring today at 50 years old started their careers on average 25 years ago. 25 years ago, in 1985, the private sector offered much better wage compensation (and retirement options in many cases) than did the public sector. I was there, were you? These public sector workers you now bash exchanged lower wages back then in return for future retirement and current/future health benefits. It turned out they were the smart ones in many cases.

Not every public sector employee is/was eligible to retire at 50, but the LEOs and firefighters are. They took the job with the promise of those benefits, and now they are entitled to them. Fort Worth municipal leadership mesed up by not planning for this, and I understand that they are now running a RIF among other measures to help close their funding shortfall. They can and should adjust their compensation packages to reflect today's realities, but that doesn't make the worker who earned their retirement under the old rules a lazy sack o' chit as they are often portrayed.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 12:35 PM
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ftw will be just like detroit in a couple years. I dont think that leos or fire employees or other city employee deserves any retirement other than what they invest in just like the average citizen in the private sector. Do away with all retirement plans and dont let state employees bank sick pay so they can get cash at the end of the year (use it or lose it). This should free up some revenue.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 01:32 PM
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FTW will be just like Detroit in a couple years. I dont think that LEOs or Fire employees or other city employee deserves any retirement other than what they invest in just like the average citizen in the private sector. Do away with ALL retirement plans and dont let state employees bank sick pay so they can get cash at the end of the year (use it or lose it). This should free up some revenue.
Agree that sick time should not be convertable directly to cash. How many hours of sick time does a state employee earn in a year?
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 02:12 PM
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Agree that sick time should not be convertable directly to cash. How many hours of sick time does a state employee earn in a year?

Ask paladin, If I recall he works for FW and claims to be a conservative .

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 02:25 PM
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Agree that sick time should not be convertable directly to cash. How many hours of sick time does a state employee earn in a year?
No idea but in the article those lump sum payments are most likely sick time.

Like I said above, I don't care what kind of agreement that the city and their employees have. I don't live there. As long as they don't try to get the state of the Feds to cover their shortfall then I am fine with whatever they want to do. Of course in California the unions are asking the state and the feds to cover their contracts when the cities can't.

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 02:30 PM
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I dont understand the logic of saying the city needs to claim bankruptcy in order to not honor a contract. Thats just shady as hell IMO. If they need to claim bankruptcy then go for it, but just to get out of contracts they made with people years ago?

Those people are making a killing on their pensions and Im not saying its right or wrong. Everyone is going to have their own opinion on that one. But imagine working 30 years for a company under a contract they agreed to, only to have them file bankruptcy so they dont have to honor it. Fuck that!

**EDIT** Oh and FTP!
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 02:38 PM
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I dont understand the logic of saying the city needs to claim bankruptcy in order to not honor a contract. Thats just shady as hell IMO. If they need to claim bankruptcy then go for it, but just to get out of contracts they made with people years ago?

Those people are making a killing on their pensions and Im not saying its right or wrong. Everyone is going to have their own opinion on that one. But imagine working 30 years for a company under a contract they agreed to, only to have them file bankruptcy so they dont have to honor it. Fuck that!
I am also a true believer in a contract is a contract, and the city should do all it can to honor them.

Its just stark reality that at some point, the city may just go bankrupt honoring those contracts.... At that point you can't get blood from a stone.

Worst case scenario, what's more important? A huge pension or running water for the city?

Times are hard and both sides are gonna have to come to the table I think...

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 02:46 PM
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Ask paladin, If I recall he works for FW and claims to be a conservative .
His working for FW wouldn't have anything to do with being a state employee.
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 04:00 PM
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I dont understand the logic of saying the city needs to claim bankruptcy in order to not honor a contract. Thats just shady as hell IMO. If they need to claim bankruptcy then go for it, but just to get out of contracts they made with people years ago?

Those people are making a killing on their pensions and Im not saying its right or wrong. Everyone is going to have their own opinion on that one. But imagine working 30 years for a company under a contract they agreed to, only to have them file bankruptcy so they dont have to honor it. Fuck that!

**EDIT** Oh and FTP!
I'm just of the opinion that milking the taxpayers for even more money to fund a contract that was unrealistic from the beginning is even worse. The city leaders are 100% to blame for this. Those contracts should have never been signed but that would require some actual work on their part. It is much easier just to give in and kick the can on down the road for someone else to deal with or to just try to fuck the taxpayers to death with tax increases.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 04:08 PM
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So basically, unions are the devil. I know that now.

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 06:21 PM
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I'm just of the opinion that milking the taxpayers for even more money to fund a contract that was unrealistic from the beginning is even worse. The city leaders are 100% to blame for this. Those contracts should have never been signed but that would require some actual work on their part. It is much easier just to give in and kick the can on down the road for someone else to deal with or to just try to fuck the taxpayers to death with tax increases.
All good points. This is a local version of the mess that is Social Security, without the raiding that's taken place by Congress.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 06:52 PM
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Yet another good reason why government pensions suck...for us!

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