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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 05:46 AM Thread Starter
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$Trillions down the drain

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2c34e206-c...44feab49a.html

Quote:
Poverty among those aged 18 to 64 rose by 1.3 percentage points to 12.9 per cent – the highest level since the early 1960s, prior to then-president Lyndon Johnson’s “War on Poverty”. The overall poverty rate rose by 1.1 percentage points to 14.3 per cent, the highest since 1994.
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 06:06 AM
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"The highest since 1994", when another liberal democrat was in office...Clinton. Throughout our history, democrats have had poor people exactly where they want them: depending on the government to provide EVERYTHING for them. It's much easier to get those votes.

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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 06:55 AM
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And yet again the rich got richer even during a recession.



http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/...ll-is-soaring/




The republican dream continues even under a democrap pres.

Republicans drove the car off the cliff and democrats had to do all of the work getting it back out of the ditch

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds at dfwstangs.net

MONEY NEVER SLEEPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by slow99 View Post
When you pull in 20 million percent a year like BULLET, you have your share of 5 and 6 figure days!

GENUFLECT TO THE BULLET




FACTS ARE LIKE ACID TO THE SKIN OF REPUBLICONS
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by bullet View Post
And yet again the rich got richer even during a recession.



http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/...ll-is-soaring/




The republican dream continues even under a democrap pres.
Which proves none of his shit works. Highest poverty level since Clinton! LOL! See a correlation there?

Rich people will ALWAYS be rich. The trick is to get them to hire folks and spend some of that money. Instead, taxing the piss out of them, encourages them to NOT hire or spend money. It's pretty damned simple.

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Vertnut View Post
Which proves none of his shit works. Highest poverty level since Clinton! LOL! See a correlation there?

Rich people will ALWAYS be rich. The trick is to get them to hire folks and spend some of that money. Instead, taxing the piss out of them, encourages them to NOT hire or spend money. It's pretty damned simple.
Get the fuck out of here with all that logic. Bullet doesn't comprehend it. It's like the crucifix to vampires.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 07:16 AM
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Which proves none of his shit works. Highest poverty level since Clinton! LOL! See a correlation there?

Rich people will ALWAYS be rich. The trick is to get them to hire folks and spend some of that money. Instead, taxing the piss out of them, encourages them to NOT hire or spend money. It's pretty damned simple.


If that concept was true, then trickle down economics would work and would not had added 8 trillion in debt.


When taxes are cut on the rich, they just get richer instead of spending it.

Even during a recession.



http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/...ll-is-soaring/


Assume demand causes you to build 12 custom houses a year.


So you are telling me right now you if obama lowers your tax bracket, you will go out and hire new employees for your business and pay them full wages even if current demand is still just 12 houses a year ?





You will just pocket that extra money and not hire anyone.





UNLESS






DEMAND increases and you suddenly get orders for 20 customers to build for and can't handle that with your current staff.






Then you will hire and create jobs.




Til then, tax reduction will do very little to encourage you hiring without any demand for your product/service.




The current upper class tax rate is really low compared to what it was in the past.


Ever since republicans cut it, the national debt has skyrocketed.


Do you not see the correlation here?


Go research how many jobs were created under bush II versus under clinton who raised taxes.


Even though you don't like it,


the facts speak for themself.

Republicans drove the car off the cliff and democrats had to do all of the work getting it back out of the ditch

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds at dfwstangs.net

MONEY NEVER SLEEPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by slow99 View Post
When you pull in 20 million percent a year like BULLET, you have your share of 5 and 6 figure days!

GENUFLECT TO THE BULLET




FACTS ARE LIKE ACID TO THE SKIN OF REPUBLICONS

Last edited by bullet; 09-17-2010 at 07:30 AM.
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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by bullet View Post
If that concept was true, then trickle down economics would work and would not had added 8 trillion in debt.

Assume demand causes you to build 12 custom houses a year.


So you are telling me right now you if obama lowers your tax bracket, you will go out and hire new employees for your business and pay them full wages even if current demand is still just 12 houses a year ?





You will just pocket that extra money and not hire anyone





UNLESS






DEMAND increases and you suddenly get 20 customers to build for and can't handle that with your current staff.






Then you will hire and create jobs.




Til then, tax reduction will do very little to encourage you hiring without any demand for your product/service.




The current upper class tax rate is really low compared to what it was in the past.


Ever since republicans cut it, the national debt has skyrocketed.


Do you not see the correlation here?


Go research how many jobs were created under bush II versus under clinton who raised taxes.


Even though you don't like it,


the facts speak for themself.

If I don't have to spend $800,000 in taxes, does it stand to reason that I may have $800,000 or even $400,000 to reinvest into my business (pocketing the rest)? How many jobs would that reinvestment possibly create? Of course, I present these questions based on the idea that building custom homes isn't the only business in the united states. I could be wrong?

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet View Post



The republican dream continues even under a democrap pres.
Oh my gosh, capitalism works even with a socialist dictator running the country? It's almost like capitalism works so well that even the best efforts of you fucking morons can't quite stop it. The American Dream.

And your sig is as retarded as your politics. See, white letters on a white background don't work well when you're making what I assume was meant to be a strong statement in red white and blue (as if you think using the colors somehow adds credence to your third-grade thought process).

The only time you should use white letters is when you're making a joke on here or "hiding" text. Its a comedic medium. See what I did there, retard?

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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet View Post
If that concept was true, then trickle down economics would work and would not had added 8 trillion in debt.


When taxes are cut on the rich, they just get richer instead of spending it.

Even during a recession.



http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/...ll-is-soaring/


Assume demand causes you to build 12 custom houses a year.


So you are telling me right now you if obama lowers your tax bracket, you will go out and hire new employees for your business and pay them full wages even if current demand is still just 12 houses a year ?





You will just pocket that extra money and not hire anyone.





UNLESS






DEMAND increases and you suddenly get orders for 20 customers to build for and can't handle that with your current staff.






Then you will hire and create jobs.




Til then, tax reduction will do very little to encourage you hiring without any demand for your product/service.




The current upper class tax rate is really low compared to what it was in the past.


Ever since republicans cut it, the national debt has skyrocketed.


Do you not see the correlation here?


Go research how many jobs were created under bush II versus under clinton who raised taxes.


Even though you don't like it,


the facts speak for themself.
When people have money to spend, I sell houses...period. I don't build for the rich, either. What do you think creates "demand"? It's the desire for people to better themselves, whether it's buying a new/better car, or moving up to a custom home. Regardless, if people aren't SPENDING money, it won't happen. In order to SPEND money, they can't pay it all in taxes.

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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustin View Post
If I don't have to spend $800,000 in taxes, does it stand to reason that I may have $800,000 or even $400,000 to reinvest into my business (pocketing the rest)? How many jobs would that reinvestment possibly create? Of course, I present these questions based on the idea that building custom homes isn't the only business in the united states. I could be wrong?
Exactly. If the $800,000 is taken by the government it does absolutely nothing but go down a sinkhole.

All bullet can do is point out correlations from the past, he can't give any sort of sound theory on WHY increasing taxes on the rich would lead to a better economy. The reason he can't do that is that it defies common sense.

The housing business is a terrible business to even use as an example. Imagine a manufacturing business. If you were running a place like that it would make sense to use the $800,000 to expand into a new market and create your own new demand. That is how businesses that make consumer products operate. They don't sit around and wait for demand to show up like a kid running a lemonade stand.

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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 08:07 AM
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Where's that study? Basically, it took ALL the money in the USA and evenly distributed to everybody. It then concluded that the rich would be rich again and the poor would be poor again.

It boils down to individual behavior. Until the "poor" change their habits, they'll stay poor. Go read the thread on the doctor treating Medicaid patients that have bling all on them, cell phones, and expensive vices. If those morons would be fiscally responsible, they could get themselves out of the hole their in. But wait, with government giving them economic life-support, there's no reason to be a responsible adult.

Here's a great point on government mishandling funds:
Great news: $111 million in stimulus money to L.A. produces … 54 jobs
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/09/1...duces-54-jobs/

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 08:13 AM
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Bullet, tax cuts NEVER cost anything. All they do is provide less revenue (although history has shown us that cutting taxes actually increases revenue to the government as people have more to spend), spending costs us money. Want to know why the deficit rose under Bush? 2 wars we got into after 9/11.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP135 View Post
Oh my gosh, capitalism works even with a socialist dictator running the country? It's almost like capitalism works so well that even the best efforts of you fucking morons can't quite stop it. The American Dream.

And your sig is as retarded as your politics. See, white letters on a white background don't work well when you're making what I assume was meant to be a strong statement in red white and blue (as if you think using the colors somehow adds credence to your third-grade thought process).

The only time you should use white letters is when you're making a joke on here or "hiding" text. Its a comedic medium. See what I did there, retard?


It made your stupid ass read my sig so it must be working pretty good.




Republicans drove the car off the cliff and democrats had to do all of the work getting it back out of the ditch

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds at dfwstangs.net

MONEY NEVER SLEEPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by slow99 View Post
When you pull in 20 million percent a year like BULLET, you have your share of 5 and 6 figure days!

GENUFLECT TO THE BULLET




FACTS ARE LIKE ACID TO THE SKIN OF REPUBLICONS
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P View Post
Exactly. If the $800,000 is taken by the government it does absolutely nothing but go down a sinkhole.

All bullet can do is point out correlations from the past, he can't give any sort of sound theory on WHY increasing taxes on the rich would lead to a better economy. The reason he can't do that is that it defies common sense.

The housing business is a terrible business to even use as an example. Imagine a manufacturing business. If you were running a place like that it would make sense to use the $800,000 to expand into a new market and create your own new demand. That is how businesses that make consumer products operate. They don't sit around and wait for demand to show up like a kid running a lemonade stand.

Look at the facts.


Bush II cut taxes for all and had terrible job creation in his 8 years.

3 million jobs were created.



Clinton raised them on the wealthy and had record job creation.


23 million were created.



Just coincidence ?




http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/...ord-on-record/




Trickle down economics had 20 years to work and all it did was add 8 trillion to the national debt and produce poor job creation.



The job numbers do not lie.

Republicans drove the car off the cliff and democrats had to do all of the work getting it back out of the ditch

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds at dfwstangs.net

MONEY NEVER SLEEPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by slow99 View Post
When you pull in 20 million percent a year like BULLET, you have your share of 5 and 6 figure days!

GENUFLECT TO THE BULLET




FACTS ARE LIKE ACID TO THE SKIN OF REPUBLICONS

Last edited by bullet; 09-17-2010 at 06:28 PM.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustin View Post
If I don't have to spend $800,000 in taxes, does it stand to reason that I may have $800,000 or even $400,000 to reinvest into my business (pocketing the rest)? How many jobs would that reinvestment possibly create? Of course, I present these questions based on the idea that building custom homes isn't the only business in the united states. I could be wrong?


If you are that wealthy, then 800k is not going to influence your decision very much. It won't create many jobs at all because as a business owner you have no reason to hire additional employees unless the additional demand is there for your product/service.

Republicans drove the car off the cliff and democrats had to do all of the work getting it back out of the ditch

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds at dfwstangs.net

MONEY NEVER SLEEPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by slow99 View Post
When you pull in 20 million percent a year like BULLET, you have your share of 5 and 6 figure days!

GENUFLECT TO THE BULLET




FACTS ARE LIKE ACID TO THE SKIN OF REPUBLICONS
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by forever_frost View Post
Bullet, tax cuts NEVER cost anything. All they do is provide less revenue (although history has shown us that cutting taxes actually increases revenue to the government as people have more to spend), spending costs us money. Want to know why the deficit rose under Bush? 2 wars we got into after 9/11.



All cutting taxes has ever done is run up the national debt.



We did not spend 5 trillion dollars on wars under bush.





You can't cut taxes and spend more money, even though republicans like to believe in this fairy tale bullshit.


This is not rocket science.

Republicans drove the car off the cliff and democrats had to do all of the work getting it back out of the ditch

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds at dfwstangs.net

MONEY NEVER SLEEPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by slow99 View Post
When you pull in 20 million percent a year like BULLET, you have your share of 5 and 6 figure days!

GENUFLECT TO THE BULLET




FACTS ARE LIKE ACID TO THE SKIN OF REPUBLICONS
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 06:05 PM
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I don't have time to "google" anything, but the only job Clinton created that was REAL, was the blow-job he got from Monica. Every one of his economic numbers were skewed beyond belief. All that "dot.com" bullshit...Hell, Bullet, you're just not that stupid. It took the '94 mid-terms (and Republicans) to save his dead-beat ass from being another Carter. Hell, he even caved in to welfare reform, and it about killed his ass to do it. He was shamed into it, or it would have never happened. He was IMPEACHED for crissakes!

I still want to puke (literally) every time I see Carter. I don't give a shit if he created 10 million jobs (which he never came close to), because he damn near wrecked this country with 20% interest rates, 12% unemployment, and double-digit inflation. On top of that, Iran shit on us for 444 days holding our hostages, while Jimmuh was holding his "johnson"...

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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet View Post
Look at the facts.


Bush II cut taxes for all and had terrible job creation in his 8 years.

3 million jobs were created.



Clinton raised them on the wealthy and had record job creation.


23 million were created.



Just coincidence ?




http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2009/...ord-on-record/




Trickle down economics had 20 years to work and all it did was add 8 trillion to the national debt and produce poor job creation.



The job numbers do not lie.
Yes, just coincidence.

I like how you ignore all the other factors outside of who was president. Like that has anything to do with it beyond veto power.

I can do that same thing. Take a look at how many years over the past 50 years that the Dems have controlled congress as well as the presidency in comparison to how many years the Republicans have done the same.

It's the spending stupid, not tax cuts or who was president or anything else. Just plain old spending. And it doesn't matter who was in charge, they have sold us all down the river.

How many tax cuts could we afford if the idiots in Washington didn't spend everything they were given plus a little more ever year?

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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Vertnut View Post
I don't have time to "google" anything, but the only job Clinton created that was REAL, was the blow-job he got from Monica. Every one of his economic numbers were skewed beyond belief. All that "dot.com" bullshit...Hell, Bullet, you're just not that stupid. It took the '94 mid-terms (and Republicans) to save his dead-beat ass from being another Carter. Hell, he even caved in to welfare reform, and it about killed his ass to do it. He was shamed into it, or it would have never happened. He was IMPEACHED for crissakes!

I still want to puke (literally) every time I see Carter. I don't give a shit if he created 10 million jobs (which he never came close to), because he damn near wrecked this country with 20% interest rates, 12% unemployment, and double-digit inflation. On top of that, Iran shit on us for 444 days holding our hostages, while Jimmuh was holding his "johnson"...
That is my favorite part of this crap....like any of the politicians are out there creating anything, except better ways to lie.

"I find that the harder I work, the more luck I seem to have." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P View Post
Yes, just coincidence.

I like how you ignore all the other factors outside of who was president. Like that has anything to do with it beyond veto power.

I can do that same thing. Take a look at how many years over the past 50 years that the Dems have controlled congress as well as the presidency in comparison to how many years the Republicans have done the same.

It's the spending stupid, not tax cuts or who was president or anything else. Just plain old spending. And it doesn't matter who was in charge, they have sold us all down the river.

How many tax cuts could we afford if the idiots in Washington didn't spend everything they were given plus a little more ever year?


That's the whole problem.

I agree that both parties spend, but at least the dems want to raise taxes to help offset the debt.


Republicants want to max out the credit card without trying to pay any of it down.

There is a reason the debt went crazy starting in 1980 and it has very little to do with congress.



I hope repubs get a majority in Nov just so we can get a faster economic recovery.

Republicans drove the car off the cliff and democrats had to do all of the work getting it back out of the ditch

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds at dfwstangs.net

MONEY NEVER SLEEPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by slow99 View Post
When you pull in 20 million percent a year like BULLET, you have your share of 5 and 6 figure days!

GENUFLECT TO THE BULLET




FACTS ARE LIKE ACID TO THE SKIN OF REPUBLICONS
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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet View Post
That's the whole problem.

I agree that both parties spend, but at least the dems want to raise taxes to help offset the debt.


Republicants want to max out the credit card without trying to pay any of it down.

There is a reason the debt went crazy starting in 1980 and it has very little to do with congress.



I hope repubs get a majority in Nov just so we can get a faster economic recovery.
So you say that we should just keep raising taxes and let them spend away?

I'd rather take care of the spending problem before we end up like Europe.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P View Post
So you say that we should just keep raising taxes and let them spend away?

I'd rather take care of the spending problem before we end up like Europe.
The spending is way out of control. If the Reps can take the house back, they will shut it down.

Barry's healthcare program is also KILLING jobs and company growth. The cost they will incur is still an unknown, and large companies (hell, small companies) hate "unknowns". I can assure you this: if congress can kill Obama-care, you'll see more hiring, and also see an entirely different attitude among us "small people", too.

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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by AL P View Post
So you say that we should just keep raising taxes and let them spend away?

I'd rather take care of the spending problem before we end up like Europe.

When is the last time federal income tax has been raised ?


What has the national debt done since that year ?

Republicans drove the car off the cliff and democrats had to do all of the work getting it back out of the ditch

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds at dfwstangs.net

MONEY NEVER SLEEPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by slow99 View Post
When you pull in 20 million percent a year like BULLET, you have your share of 5 and 6 figure days!

GENUFLECT TO THE BULLET




FACTS ARE LIKE ACID TO THE SKIN OF REPUBLICONS
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Vertnut View Post
The spending is way out of control. If the Reps can take the house back, they will shut it down.

Barry's healthcare program is also KILLING jobs and company growth. The cost they will incur is still an unknown, and large companies (hell, small companies) hate "unknowns". I can assure you this: if congress can kill Obama-care, you'll see more hiring, and also see an entirely different attitude among us "small people", too.


You don't provide insurance for your "subs" so this has zero effect on your business.


When demand picks up, I think if anything you will see more employers switch to hiring "consultants" for contract so they can sidestep the insurance issue.

Republicans drove the car off the cliff and democrats had to do all of the work getting it back out of the ditch

Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds at dfwstangs.net

MONEY NEVER SLEEPS

Quote:
Originally Posted by slow99 View Post
When you pull in 20 million percent a year like BULLET, you have your share of 5 and 6 figure days!

GENUFLECT TO THE BULLET




FACTS ARE LIKE ACID TO THE SKIN OF REPUBLICONS
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet View Post
When is the last time federal income tax has been raised ?


What has the national debt done since that year ?
Can you please stop hitting the enter key after every sentence. Your making us all scroll down for ten minutes.
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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-18-2010, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bullet View Post
You don't provide insurance for your "subs" so this has zero effect on your business.


When demand picks up, I think if anything you will see more employers switch to hiring "consultants" for contract so they can sidestep the insurance issue.
I'm not talking about it affecting MY business directly, but what about the lumber yard, brick yard, appliance company, HVAC company, etc? It affects their profits and prices, so it affects us all.

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
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