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post #1 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 08:57 AM Thread Starter
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Dont Ask, Dont Tell declared unconstitutional...

As long as fags arent in combat arms, I couldnt care less if they serve in the military. But it appears that the powers-that-be only enforce the constitutional doctrines when it serves their political agendas.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/09..._lnk1%7C169616
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post #2 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 09:01 AM
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As long as fags arent in combat arms, I couldnt care less if they serve in the military. But it appears that the powers-that-be only enforce the constitutional doctrines when it serves their political agendas.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/09..._lnk1%7C169616
Hey Doc, if they're "in", how do you keep them out of combat situations?

This is another example of how Clinton pussied out of situations that he was forced to deal with, but couldn't make the call.

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post #3 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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There's a reason we called REMF'ers fags...keep them in quartermaster battalions and what-not.
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post #4 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 10:38 AM
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i agree. when deployed and living in tight quarters with the rest of the guys, the last thing you want to worry about is rupaul trying to suck your cock while you sleep

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post #5 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 10:49 AM
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post #6 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 10:53 AM
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So now is the policy.. Ask and Tell?
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post #7 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 11:15 AM
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So now is the policy.. Ask and Tell?
lol.


This is a losing battle for them. If they have those kinds of rights, then the real men can decide that they have rights too. To segregation. Which under these circumstances, no one can argue with. Because if they did, one would need only point out that they are the ones who wanted all this in the first place. If they are to be considered truly to be what they are, then I have every right to say I don't want them to be able to see me in the shower.

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post #8 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 11:20 AM
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I don't understand what the "direct and deleterious effect" is on the military in general with the current Don't Ask, Don't tell rule.

Straight or Gay, Why is it so hard for people to keep their personal "preferences" to themselves?

Between various codes of the UCMJ and the current military fraternization policies, I don't see how being able to be "out" would give a gay person any more options than they have now other than the REAL reason the left pushes this crap down our throats.... to make being Gay a "Normal" and "Average" lifestyle....

It is about as normal and average as having 3 wives or having a penchant for licking your cat's balls...

Does it effect me personally? no

Do I really give a shit? no


But come on folks, let's call this bull crap what it is....

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post #9 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 11:38 AM
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lol.


This is a losing battle for them. If they have those kinds of rights, then the real men can decide that they have rights too. To segregation. Which under these circumstances, no one can argue with. Because if they did, one would need only point out that they are the ones who wanted all this in the first place. If they are to be considered truly to be what they are, then I have every right to say I don't want them to be able to see me in the shower.
This is exactly why you should never play the "social experimentation" game with the military...

First off, Everyone who raises their hands and takes the oath should be well aware that you leave certain "rights" on the doorstep... it has always been that way and why some are just not suited to serve.

Secondly, Let's expand on Justin's line of thinking....

If gays have a right to be "out", and straights have a right not to be quartered with gays (or do they???), how are they quartered?

Do you have 2 quarters for men and women and 2 for Homos and Lesbians?

That won't work because the gay guys and gals might be "staring" each other up and down.

Do we put the gay guys with the women and the lesbians with the guys? That won't work either.....

Fuck it... lets throw out the rule book and do the "Starship Troopers" solution.... Communal everything..... Only way to be fair....

Glad I'm not in anymore....

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post #10 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 11:49 AM
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I don't understand what the "direct and deleterious effect" is on the military in general with the current Don't Ask, Don't tell rule.

Straight or Gay, Why is it so hard for people to keep their personal "preferences" to themselves?

Between various codes of the UCMJ and the current military fraternization policies, I don't see how being able to be "out" would give a gay person any more options than they have now other than the REAL reason the left pushes this crap down our throats.... to make being Gay a "Normal" and "Average" lifestyle....

It is about as normal and average as having 3 wives or having a penchant for licking your cat's balls...

Does it effect me personally? no

Do I really give a shit? no


But come on folks, let's call this bull crap what it is....
It's most likely going to lead to similar confrontations as when the military was racially desegregated or when Women started being allowed into military academies. The majority of military service members especially the Army and Corps come from the traditional bible belt area and while not dumb generally don't have the highest asvab scores in the world when it comes to grunts and arty units. As long as morale and working ability for combat arms units aren't affected I don't give a shit who they let in support units. I'm sure Walking Mattresses will still cause more strife between a group of privates at a Logistics unit than some queer bait.

Walking Mattress = WM = Women Marines for reference
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post #11 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 11:56 AM
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Not all gays are flaming, right? And honestly, most of them aren't pushing themselves on straight men outside of the gay bar, right?

If a man is well-trained, disciplined, able, and willing to die for his country and the guys around him, why the fuck would anyone care what his sexual preference is? Fear? Ignorance?

I'm asking this question literally, because I am trying to at least understand the mentality.
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post #12 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 12:01 PM
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Not all gays are flaming, right? And honestly, most of them aren't pushing themselves on straight men outside of the gay bar, right?

If a man is well-trained, disciplined, able, and willing to die for his country and the guys around him, why the fuck would anyone care what his sexual preference is? Fear? Ignorance?

I'm asking this question literally, because I am trying to at least understand the mentality.
Like Sgt. Beavis has pointed out last time this convo came up, I don't think the type of gays that would be attracted to the military would necessarily be flamers anyways. Because of the makeup of the average grunt or arty unit however I don't think they'd be able to maintain the same level of discipline in those units that they currently have with only straight, males. It's the same reasoning as to why you don't shove a girl in a tank platoon or in the middle of a gun line. That's my take anyways
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post #13 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 12:08 PM
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Like Sgt. Beavis has pointed out last time this convo came up, I don't think the type of gays that would be attracted to the military would necessarily be flamers anyways. Because of the makeup of the average grunt or arty unit however I don't think they'd be able to maintain the same level of discipline in those units that they currently have with only straight, males. It's the same reasoning as to why you don't shove a girl in a tank platoon or in the middle of a gun line. That's my take anyways

So are you saying that gays are automatically weaker mentally and/or physically?
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post #14 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 12:19 PM
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So are you saying that gays are automatically weaker mentally and/or physically?
No, I'm saying the mob mentality that develops in a grunt battalion with 800 guys the majority of whom are from the conservative south could have serious problems losing focus of their goal because they're all busying hasing the homo. Similar to why you don't throw a woman in the same unit, not because she's inferior but because every guy would be trying to nail the chick instead of doing their job. Replace fucking the girl with beating up the homo and that's where the problem would lie with a grunt unit. Over time the military if it wants to survive will eventually adapt, but starting off with the plan in a pog unit is a much better idea than a blanket policy. If some admin clerk who spends half his day on the computer in Iraq loses sight of his job in iraq to chase some dessert wookie or make fun of a gay guy people probably wont die. Adapting to new policies that involve previous segregation take time, in time I'm sure the average grunt won't have a problem if the guy to his left of right goes home to another dude as long as he's still willing to fight and die together. That being said we are still in a war, now is not the time to make sweeping reforms to grunt units. The military isn't an institution of American democracy its what protects it. In time sexual equality should and will be introduced across the military. Most first world military's are undergoing similar changes or have undergone it, but during a war is not a time to forcibly change the mentality of front line grunt units.
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post #15 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 12:27 PM
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No, I'm saying the mob mentality that develops in a grunt battalion with 800 guys the majority of whom are from the conservative south could have serious problems losing focus of their goal because they're all busying hasing the homo. Similar to why you don't throw a woman in the same unit, not because she's inferior but because every guy would be trying to nail the chick instead of doing their job. Replace fucking the girl with beating up the homo and that's where the problem would lie with a grunt unit. Over time the military if it wants to survive will eventually adapt, but starting off with the plan in a pog unit is a much better idea than a blanket policy. If some admin clerk who spends half his day on the computer in Iraq loses sight of his job in iraq to chase some dessert wookie or make fun of a gay guy people probably wont die. Adapting to new policies that involve previous segregation take time, in time I'm sure the average grunt won't have a problem if the guy to his left of right goes home to another dude as long as he's still willing to fight and die together. That being said we are still in a war, now is not the time to make sweeping reforms to grunt units. The military isn't an institution of American democracy its what protects it. In time sexual equality should and will be introduced across the military. Most first world military's are undergoing similar changes or have undergone it, but during a war is not a time to forcibly change the mentality of front line grunt units.
Ah, that makes complete sense. Thank you.
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post #16 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 12:48 PM
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Not all gays are flaming, right? And honestly, most of them aren't pushing themselves on straight men outside of the gay bar, right?

If a man is well-trained, disciplined, able, and willing to die for his country and the guys around him, why the fuck would anyone care what his sexual preference is? Fear? Ignorance?

I'm asking this question literally, because I am trying to at least understand the mentality.
I'm assuming that you've never served....

As an ex military guy myself... I honestly could care less if someone is gay or likes humping rabbits... as long as they can do the job

Outside of the "Unit Cohesion" issues that Slow brings up, which I don't "entirely" agree with, you have the "personal" space issue.

How many women would be OK showering with an open lesbian?

Probably about the same amount of those that would be OK showering with a strange man.

Like I said, want to solve all of this?

Communal living areas and a hard focus on fraternization policies with stiff penalties. At this point, why separate anyone?

I myself, would not have joined in that atmosphere... but I guess I'm too much of a southern conservative with a low asvab score... (Just kidding Slow) LOL
I honestly don't WANT to know what you're into in that arena, so keep it to yourself.

The military was created to carry kill people and break things..... anything that takes the aim off of those points, makes it less effective.

I don't think the current course has anything to do with keeping the military effective, and everything to do about politics

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post #17 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 12:56 PM
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Lol I didn't mean to convey 99% of grunts are rocks. I was far from the only 99 asvab at my arty unit, but I'm willing to bet half of all the 0311s and 0811s in the Corps scored below a 50.
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post #18 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 12:57 PM
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I declare the entire Obama administration unconstitutional. Come get me Secret Service.

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it was not a problem to bring money to his house at 10pm.so why is it a problem to call and bitch.it wasnt a problem when we were all sitting around smoking pot together.yes i said it we all were smoking pot together.what now stupid.
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post #19 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 01:06 PM
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Gay people have always been allowed in the military, thats not the issue though, the issue is weather they can call them selves gay. personally I dont really care either way, if our military trains people correctly then there should be no problem.

my only concern with gay people, is that most of them let their sexuality run their life and they seem to want our respect for that.

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post #20 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 01:13 PM
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i agree. when deployed and living in tight quarters with the rest of the guys, the last thing you want to worry about is rupaul trying to suck your cock while you sleep

So because someone is gay, they're going to try and sexually violate every swinging dick in the barracks? The last time I checked, gay or not, our soldiers are dying for our rights, fighting our battles, and for the battles of other countries. the list goes on and on as we all know. They are all put through the same tests to create a brotherhood of people that have each others backs during times of war and peace. They are all held to the same standard, taught the same things, made to follow the same rules, not allowed to cross the same boundaries, and expected to act like an honorable soldier / representative of our U.S. military force.

Why is it, when a guy or gal is on leave on their own time spooning on the couch with their same sex partner, it's assumed they've nothing but sex on the brain and ready to sexually assault others while they're on duty?

When you go into a gym locker room, there's gotta be at least one gay person there. What do you do in those situations? When you workout, there's at least one gay person seeing you bulk up and get a sweaty, so do you quit working out or make them go to a gay gym? When you use the urinal at the club, grocery store, restaurant, etc... do you think that everyone that uses the mens restroom is straight so in theory you're ok with dangling your dick out there?

I'm not targeting YOU with these questions, just those that are homophobe in general .... because to think that their sexual preference has ANY bearing on their ability to fight and die for our countrymen and our rights is unfathomable.

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post #21 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 01:15 PM
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So because someone is gay, they're going to try and sexually violate every swinging dick in the barracks? The last time I checked, gay or not, our soldiers are dying for our rights, fighting our battles, and for the battles of other countries. the list goes on and on as we all know. They are all put through the same tests to create a brotherhood of people that have each others backs during times of war and peace. They are all held to the same standard, taught the same things, made to follow the same rules, not allowed to cross the same boundaries, and expected to act like an honorable soldier / representative of our U.S. military force.

Why is it, when a guy or gal is on leave on their own time spooning on the couch with their same sex partner, it's assumed they've nothing but sex on the brain and ready to sexually assault others while they're on duty?

When you go into a gym locker room, there's gotta be at least one gay person there. What do you do in those situations? When you workout, there's at least one gay person seeing you bulk up and get a sweaty, so do you quit working out or make them go to a gay gym? When you use the urinal at the club, grocery store, restaurant, etc... do you think that everyone that uses the mens restroom is straight so in theory you're ok with dangling your dick out there?

I'm not targeting YOU with these questions, just those that are homophobe in general .... because to think that their sexual preference has ANY bearing on their ability to fight and die for our countrymen and our rights is unfathomable.
That is why don't ask don't tell is perfect. Nobody needs to know what you do on your own time.

But you are welcome to tell us your lesbian stories if you would like.
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post #22 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 01:22 PM
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So because someone is gay, they're going to try and sexually violate every swinging dick in the barracks? The last time I checked, gay or not, our soldiers are dying for our rights, fighting our battles, and for the battles of other countries. the list goes on and on as we all know. They are all put through the same tests to create a brotherhood of people that have each others backs during times of war and peace. They are all held to the same standard, taught the same things, made to follow the same rules, not allowed to cross the same boundaries, and expected to act like an honorable soldier / representative of our U.S. military force.

Why is it, when a guy or gal is on leave on their own time spooning on the couch with their same sex partner, it's assumed they've nothing but sex on the brain and ready to sexually assault others while they're on duty?

When you go into a gym locker room, there's gotta be at least one gay person there. What do you do in those situations? When you workout, there's at least one gay person seeing you bulk up and get a sweaty, so do you quit working out or make them go to a gay gym? When you use the urinal at the club, grocery store, restaurant, etc... do you think that everyone that uses the mens restroom is straight so in theory you're ok with dangling your dick out there?

I'm not targeting YOU with these questions, just those that are homophobe in general .... because to think that their sexual preference has ANY bearing on their ability to fight and die for our countrymen and our rights is unfathomable.
What we don't need are more distractions and distinctions in the armed forces. There is no room in the military for sexuality while on the clock, it's meaningless. There is no need to say "I'm gay." What purpose does that serve? Don't ask don't tell was the perfect policy, the military does not need to know anything about your sexual tendencies because it has no bearing on your fighting ability.

The point isn't to keep gays out of the military, which obviously the 'pro-gay' posts here are trying to bait people into. The point is that your sexuality doesn't matter to the military and it should stay that way.
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post #23 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 01:29 PM
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I honestly dont see the big deal. Gays were in the military and will continue to be in the military. I dont see anyone saying "Hey guys, Im glad that dont ask dont tell BS is over, I want ya'll to know Im gay". Its going to be buisness as usuall and all this is, is politics.

Who cares is they love the pecker or the poon, as long as they can follow orders and shoot straight (no pun intended) let them in the military.
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post #24 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 01:33 PM
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That is why don't ask don't tell is perfect. Nobody needs to know what you do on your own time.

But you are welcome to tell us your lesbian stories if you would like.
IMO you won't see a rush of gays to join the military. I'm sure their will be a rise in gays who join but it looks like more of a mechanism to keep gays who are currently serving from ruining their career if their lifestyle comes to light. The military is still going to be a haven of conservatism.
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post #25 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 01:35 PM
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What we don't need are more distractions and distinctions in the armed forces. There is no room in the military for sexuality while on the clock, it's meaningless. There is no need to say "I'm gay." What purpose does that serve? Don't ask don't tell was the perfect policy, the military does not need to know anything about your sexual tendencies because it has no bearing on your fighting ability.

The point isn't to keep gays out of the military, which obviously the 'pro-gay' posts here are trying to bait people into. The point is that your sexuality doesn't matter to the military and it should stay that way.
I agree. I wasn't baiting anyone, nor am I "pro gay". The mentality that gays don't belong on the front lines was introduced from post 1 in this thread, and shared by others. I still don't understand it, but I do understand why the subject of sexuality shouldn't even be brought up.

That said, it will be nice if the day comes that someone might get outed somehow, and it wouldn't cause any backlash or distraction. You know, for equality and freedom and all that other fun stuff that our guys are fighting for in the first place.
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post #26 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 01:43 PM
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What we don't need are more distractions and distinctions in the armed forces. There is no room in the military for sexuality while on the clock, it's meaningless. There is no need to say "I'm gay." What purpose does that serve? Don't ask don't tell was the perfect policy, the military does not need to know anything about your sexual tendencies because it has no bearing on your fighting ability.

The point isn't to keep gays out of the military, which obviously the 'pro-gay' posts here are trying to bait people into. The point is that your sexuality doesn't matter to the military and it should stay that way.

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post #27 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 01:51 PM
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I wasn't baiting anyone,
C'mon man... you were trying to draw someone offsides here
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So are you saying that gays are automatically weaker mentally and/or physically?
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post #28 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 01:51 PM
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LOL glad I am out. I have no problem with gay people at all. But can you imagine the basic training shower lines ( Lined naked nut to butt) Would be a little wierd haha

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post #29 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 02:32 PM
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C'mon man... you were trying to draw someone offsides here
I swear that I wasn't. I would admit it if I was. I was truly wanting to understand what he meant, and he clarified it quite well in his next post. Turns out, that isn't what he meant, so I'm glad I asked for clarification.

I know it's tough to tell when stuff is typed vs having a conversation in person, but you shouldn't be so quick to assume that I had anything other than very clear intentions. I'm pretty straightforward, I think.
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post #30 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 02:45 PM
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Don't get so defensive, homo!

(I don't think I've said that since jr high, lol)
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post #31 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 02:50 PM
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LOL glad I am out. I have no problem with gay people at all. But can you imagine the basic training shower lines ( Lined naked nut to butt) Would be a little wierd haha

Nothing has changed. Gays were allowed in the military and still are. So for all you know the guy who's "nuts were on your butt" as you put it could have been gay, the only difference being now he can tell you how much he likes it.
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post #32 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 08:11 PM
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Nothing has changed. Gays were allowed in the military and still are. So for all you know the guy who's "nuts were on your butt" as you put it could have been gay, the only difference being now he can tell you how much he likes it.

Either my memory is faulty or your young and just think this is has been this way forever .

I distantly remember my first week of boot camp. The CC stood in the center of the room asking if any one wanted out, he said all they had to do was offer to suck him off, and they would be discharged immediately.



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Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
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post #33 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 08:24 PM
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Not all gays are flaming, right? And honestly, most of them aren't pushing themselves on straight men outside of the gay bar, right?

If a man is well-trained, disciplined, able, and willing to die for his country and the guys around him, why the fuck would anyone care what his sexual preference is? Fear? Ignorance?

I'm asking this question literally, because I am trying to at least understand the mentality.
Its quite simple. Its a matter of principle. Its a matter of rights. If that fag has the right to say that he's a fag, then I have the right to not want that fag to be looking at me in the shower. Many people here seem to think that wouldn't happen. They're wrong. What would stop it? Is he going to cease being a fag just while he's in the military? They need to just not allow them in, or somehow segregate them in some way. Cause guess what... real men have rights too.

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- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
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post #34 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 08:27 PM
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We can't have this shit in the military!

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post #35 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 08:46 PM
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Like others have said, this is about morale to a large extent in the military. The overwhelming majority of Americans don't agree with that lifestyle choice (my opinion), and even a larger percentage of the people who typically join the military probably don't(again, my opinion).

There is a reason why women and men are separated in sleeping quarters, in showers, in dressing rooms etc. There would be the exact same reason for homosexual males and females to be separated from heterosexual males/females.

This isn't about whether or not you agree with being gay, it is about the special requirements of keeping a military unit ready to fight a war, which is pretty specific to the military.


< --- waits to be called a homophobe.

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post #36 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 08:47 PM
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Its quite simple. Its a matter of principle. Its a matter of rights. If that fag has the right to say that he's a fag, then I have the right to not want that fag to be looking at me in the shower. Many people here seem to think that wouldn't happen. They're wrong. What would stop it? Is he going to cease being a fag just while he's in the military? They need to just not allow them in, or somehow segregate them in some way. Cause guess what... real men have rights too.
You are wrong. The gays and their supporters are the only ones who have rights on this issue, you are just a homophobe.

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post #37 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-10-2010, 09:31 PM
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Everyone of you is wrong and so are the courts. As someone that served, I can assure you the military does not have to follow the Constitution. You have to defend it, but you certainly are not bound by within the military. They can do whatever in the hell they want, because they literally own the people that work for them. The military has it's own rules that usurp anything in The Constitution. The first thing they teach you is that you no longer have rights. Rights are for citizens not soldiers.
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post #38 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-11-2010, 11:32 AM
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Everyone of you is wrong and so are the courts. As someone that served, I can assure you the military does not have to follow the Constitution. You have to defend it, but you certainly are not bound by within the military. They can do whatever in the hell they want, because they literally own the people that work for them. The military has it's own rules that usurp anything in The Constitution. The first thing they teach you is that you no longer have rights. Rights are for citizens not soldiers.
You're a god damned moron! The military does whatever Congress tells them or they don't get paid.
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post #39 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-11-2010, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
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Everyone of you is wrong and so are the courts. As someone that served, I can assure you the military does not have to follow the Constitution. You have to defend it, but you certainly are not bound by within the military. They can do whatever in the hell they want, because they literally own the people that work for them. The military has it's own rules that usurp anything in The Constitution. The first thing they teach you is that you no longer have rights. Rights are for citizens not soldiers.
What happens when you are no longer a soldier, and you have become a citizen again? Are all your rights back? What about the way the military has to act towards actual citizens? Are they bound by the constitution then?

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- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
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post #40 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-11-2010, 09:37 PM
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You're a god damned moron! The military does whatever Congress tells them or they don't get paid.
No one is Congress is manning the bases overseas, the ships, the submarines or in the trenches in foreign countries. The military has a job to do and most people in the military could give a rats ass what anyone in Congress thinks about anything.

If Congress doesn't pay them, they won't have anyone to man any of their posts or vessels. Don't believe that, then you need to look what happened in Russia when their government fell apart.
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post #41 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-11-2010, 09:39 PM
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What happens when you are no longer a soldier, and you have become a citizen again? Are all your rights back? What about the way the military has to act towards actual citizens? Are they bound by the constitution then?
Yes the military is bound by the Constitution in it's acts towards the citizens. The citizens have the rights guaranteed by the Constitution and the soldiers are to uphold it. They are bound to it by oath. They however are subject to the UCMJ and not The Constitution and don't have the same rights as citizens.

When you are no longer a soldier, then you become a citizen again.
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post #42 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-11-2010, 09:53 PM
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wasn't the father of American warfare a homosexual from europe?
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post #43 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 12:33 AM
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wasn't the father of American warfare a homosexual from europe?
I bet no one asked and I bet he didn't tell.

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post #44 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 08:14 AM
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No one is Congress is manning the bases overseas, the ships, the submarines or in the trenches in foreign countries. The military has a job to do and most people in the military could give a rats ass what anyone in Congress thinks about anything.

If Congress doesn't pay them, they won't have anyone to man any of their posts or vessels. Don't believe that, then you need to look what happened in Russia when their government fell apart.
Ya know I take it back, you're not a complete moron. You illustrate my point perfectly as to why I advocated not putting homosexuals in a combat mos. You are completely fucking retarded if think the officer corps of any branch would completely ignore congress and let you run around doing whatever you want just because you don't agree. The minute the first dumbass private gets caught hazing a homo they're going to get raked of the coals. You're not the only one who would be too busy worried about the guy behind him to aim his fucking rifle down range either, just like you weren't the only singing dick to blow 500 bucks at the strip club on pay day because you "thought" the stripper liked you.
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post #45 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 12:11 PM
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wasn't the father of American warfare a homosexual from europe?
No you little faggot, he wasn't. STFU and take your gayness out of here.

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i think thedark1337 is a pretty cool guy. eh plays the game and doesnt afraid of anything


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- later on when i was about 16 i suddenly came to the realization that i had zero appeal to women and i said "i'm going to say i'm gay from now on"
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post #46 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 10:13 PM
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Ya know I take it back, you're not a complete moron. You illustrate my point perfectly as to why I advocated not putting homosexuals in a combat mos. You are completely fucking retarded if think the officer corps of any branch would completely ignore congress and let you run around doing whatever you want just because you don't agree. The minute the first dumbass private gets caught hazing a homo they're going to get raked of the coals. You're not the only one who would be too busy worried about the guy behind him to aim his fucking rifle down range either, just like you weren't the only singing dick to blow 500 bucks at the strip club on pay day because you "thought" the stripper liked you.
Do you actually have any thing of substance to contradict anything that I have stated? Do you think name calling is the way to win an argument? Clearly that would make Obama your hero.

For the record, I served 10 years, and I was the nice guy dragging my drunk comrades out of clubs around the world and taking their credit / debit cards from them to save them money. Strippers and Congress both want all your money. Maybe you should watch that trailer in the other post......

Need an example to prove my point?

A citizen has the right to go wherever they like whenever they like anywhere in this country. Guess what happens to any soldier trying to exercise the same rights? All they have to do is miss one required place and time and they can end up in jail. It happens regularly. Soldiers do not have the same rights. Get over it.

There were homosexuals in the military while I served. Until it was a problem on a very personal level no one cared. But when the homosexual made advances, etc. they were removed from the service for everyone's safety. It was that simple. On a professional level no one cares as long as you can do your job. But the military is a different sort of job. You live with the people you work with, so topics like this are different in the military.

There are a lot of things against the law or in violation of human rights etc., that just plain don't apply in the service. Eight hour work days are another fine example and being paid overtime. It doesn't happen.

And I can guarantee you that while the officers have sworn their oath to Congress and The Constitution they pay far more attention to their soldiers. Who do you think keeps them alive so they can get back to their family and friends in one piece? Do you? Does Congress? Or do the soldiers that technically serve under them?

Your weak logic is the very reason our country can no longer win it's wars. You don't have the guts to finish anything. You just want to blame everyone else, call names, and pretend the issue isn't real at all. Nice try, but I'm not buying it.

You wanna play the tough guy for real, then get out there on the front lines and prove it. Stop hiding behind your computer can calling everyone else idiots, homophobes etc.

And if you don't think soldiers do whatever in the hell they want or have the power to do it, you understand nothing of power. Power only exists to the extent anyone is willing to give that person power. This concept is what founded our country. And if you don't think it still applies, I can assure you that there was indeed a mutiny on a US Navy vessel within the past 10 years. The captain was an officer appointed by Congress, so how in the hell did that happen? Can you answer that one tough guy? Got a name for me in reference to this one? And no I wasn't on that ship, but I know men that were, and I've heard their stories. But that's un Constitutional! And Congress would never approve..... well Congress isn't out there manning the front lines you idiot!
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post #47 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 10:35 PM
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Do you actually have any thing of substance to contradict anything that I have stated? Do you think name calling is the way to win an argument? Clearly that would make Obama your hero.

For the record, I served 10 years, and I was the nice guy dragging my drunk comrades out of clubs around the world and taking their credit / debit cards from them to save them money. Strippers and Congress both want all your money. Maybe you should watch that trailer in the other post......

Need an example to prove my point?

A citizen has the right to go wherever they like whenever they like anywhere in this country. Guess what happens to any soldier trying to exercise the same rights? All they have to do is miss one required place and time and they can end up in jail. It happens regularly. Soldiers do not have the same rights. Get over it.

There were homosexuals in the military while I served. Until it was a problem on a very personal level no one cared. But when the homosexual made advances, etc. they were removed from the service for everyone's safety. It was that simple. On a professional level no one cares as long as you can do your job. But the military is a different sort of job. You live with the people you work with, so topics like this are different in the military.

There are a lot of things against the law or in violation of human rights etc., that just plain don't apply in the service. Eight hour work days are another fine example and being paid overtime. It doesn't happen.

And I can guarantee you that while the officers have sworn their oath to Congress and The Constitution they pay far more attention to their soldiers. Who do you think keeps them alive so they can get back to their family and friends in one piece? Do you? Does Congress? Or do the soldiers that technically serve under them?

Your weak logic is the very reason our country can no longer win it's wars. You don't have the guts to finish anything. You just want to blame everyone else, call names, and pretend the issue isn't real at all. Nice try, but I'm not buying it.

You wanna play the tough guy for real, then get out there on the front lines and prove it. Stop hiding behind your computer can calling everyone else idiots, homophobes etc.

And if you don't think soldiers do whatever in the hell they want or have the power to do it, you understand nothing of power. Power only exists to the extent anyone is willing to give that person power. This concept is what founded our country. And if you don't think it still applies, I can assure you that there was indeed a mutiny on a US Navy vessel within the past 10 years. The captain was an officer appointed by Congress, so how in the hell did that happen? Can you answer that one tough guy? Got a name for me in reference to this one? And no I wasn't on that ship, but I know men that were, and I've heard their stories. But that's un Constitutional! And Congress would never approve..... well Congress isn't out there manning the front lines you idiot!
That's funny..I think 6 years in the Corps and back to back tours in Fallujah running convoys and training the IA will ease my conscience just fine at night. If you'd actually pay attention to all of my post pre-you in this thread you'd see I take the same exact stance as the OP I just put it in pc and objective terms. The bottom line is, the homos WILL eventually be allowed in openly. Eventually grunts and everyone else in a combat role will have to get used to it. I don't know when you got out but you'd have to be the most oblivious enlisted man not to know the politics of the officer corps and how it inadvertently fucks you over. LCpl noname beats the shit out of pvt dicksucker...the command will come down so hard on this kid it's not even funny. Is it proper? Depends on the circumstance and whether or not it was because he was gay or just a random fight between non rates, but the first time a homo gets the shit kicked out of him/her in the military it'll mean serious consequences for everyone else. Which is the exact reason I advocate holding off introducing homo's to the military openly until after we've finished our wars, but you had to go and get all but hurt because I called you a jackass for oversimplifying the military judicial system. You still have to follow every single federal law and you know that. If you get a DUI for example you get charged twice, in the regular world and the military. You were simply trying to come off as billy badass to all the un-initiated in the UCMJ and someone called you on it. You and most of America may not like it including me genius, but the minute you beat the shit of the first openly gay servicemen after this becomes an accepted ruling their will be dire consequences for all the parties involved.
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post #48 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-12-2010, 10:42 PM
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...


A citizen has the right to go wherever they like whenever they like anywhere in this country. Guess what happens to any soldier trying to exercise the same rights? All they have to do is miss one required place and time and they can end up in jail. It happens regularly. Soldiers do not have the same rights. Get over it.


I can assure you that there was indeed a mutiny on a US Navy vessel within the past 10 years. The captain was an officer appointed by Congress, so how in the hell did that happen? Can you answer that one tough guy?
That's because it's your fucking job, you signed the contract agreeing to join a subset of America with even more laws than the average citizen. That in no way correlates to losing your rights as a US citizen.

I guarantee the majority of the original mutineers are sitting in a military prison if not executed!



Oh and if you really spent 10 years on a ship cruising the open waters fucking random Bangkok whores don't talk to me about making sacrifices for your country.
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post #49 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-13-2010, 08:06 AM Thread Starter
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I thought all the fags joined the Navy?
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post #50 of 68 (permalink) Old 09-13-2010, 09:58 AM
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I thought all the fags joined the Navy?
I thought it was the national guard?

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