Wanna pay15-20% more for everything? - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-07-2010, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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Wanna pay15-20% more for everything?

Just great, they won't be happy till we're a member of the EU..and all poor subjects.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...lue-added-tax/
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...2W09rQuHKPJx4J


Acknowledging it would be a highly unpopular move, White House economic adviser Paul Volcker said yesterday the United States should consider imposing a "value added tax" similar to those charged in Europe to help get the deficit under control.
A VAT is a national sales tax that, like state and city sales taxes, would be collected by retailers.
Volcker, at the New-York Historical Society, told a panel on the global financial crisis that Congress might also have to consider new taxes on carbon and energy.
"The President has passed historic tax cuts for middle-class families and continues to push for more tax cuts. The President is not proposing to cut the deficit at the expense of middle-class families," said a White House official asked for comment.
The VAT suggestion was immediately met with outrage by Republicans. "It shouldn't surprise anyone that the Obama White House would advocate a European-style tax to help finance their European-style government health-care plan," said Brian Walsh, a spokesman for the National Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee.
"When you hear things like this, though, it's almost as if the Democrats think the American people will forget that we're in this situation because of their reckless spending agenda."
Volcker, a former chairman of the Federal Reserve, told the global economic panel that a VAT is "not as toxic an idea as it has been in the past."
He added, "If, at the end of the day, we need to raise taxes, we should raise taxes."
The tax has long had backing from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), who last year said it is "on the table" for dealing with the country's fiscal woes.
Some say the tax can be a good way to raise money because -- depending on how it's imposed -- the burden does not have to fall on the consumer alone.
A VAT can also be imposed down the line on manufacturers, producers and any other business that adds value -- as well as retailers.
Presumably, each could be asked to pay a smaller amount, since the burden would be spread out.
Also, since the government would be collecting at each step of the manufacturing process, if a retailer cheated, the taxman wouldn't be left completely in the cold, because levies would have been collected at earlier steps leading up to the sale.
A major reason the tax is so hated is that it does not eliminate sales taxes, but is charged on top of them.
It's a quick way for governments to raise cash, but the tax could wind up being a burden on the poor, critics say.
The VAT idea has percolated in Washington over the years, but lawmakers have always resisted it.
The US budget deficit is expected to reach $1.5 trillion in fiscal 2010.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-07-2010, 04:23 PM
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-07-2010, 04:28 PM
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Like anyone is suprised that they can't wait to tax anything and everything. Fucking idiots.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-07-2010, 04:33 PM
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DO they realize that they (D.C.) are the reason we are in the trouble we are in?? Taxing us isn't going to fix their spending. Maybe if we taxed their wages more heavily we could fix some things and they'd be less inclined to tax us when they see how it feels.

Or we could clean house and start fresh...either/or.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-07-2010, 04:34 PM
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Hahaha...was looking for a blood form a turnip pic adn stumbled on this.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-07-2010, 04:35 PM
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Some say the tax can be a good way to raise money because -- depending on how it's imposed -- the burden does not have to fall on the consumer alone.
A VAT can also be imposed down the line on manufacturers, producers and any other business that adds value -- as well as retailers.
Presumably, each could be asked to pay a smaller amount, since the burden would be spread out.


It will fall on the consumer, you think Manufacturers are going to keep their prices the same after paying a higher tax? No. So prices go up even higher and the tax percentage goes up too. This isn't even about Dems and Republicans, I am officially anti-Washington.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-07-2010, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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I'm thinking more and more that we have a city full of economics class failures up there.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-07-2010, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by AL P View Post
Like anyone is suprised that they can't wait to tax anything and everything. Fucking idiots.
No kidding. THEY overspend, and the solution is tax more. Morons, how about spend less!

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Originally Posted by Larius View Post
Some say the tax can be a good way to raise money because -- depending on how it's imposed -- the burden does not have to fall on the consumer alone.
A VAT can also be imposed down the line on manufacturers, producers and any other business that adds value -- as well as retailers.
Presumably, each could be asked to pay a smaller amount, since the burden would be spread out.


It will fall on the consumer, you think Manufacturers are going to keep their prices the same after paying a higher tax? No. So prices go up even higher and the tax percentage goes up too.
Yup. And all our income goes down, so we buy less. Manufactures sell less, lay off more and raise prices due to compensate...and the spiral down continues.

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-07-2010, 05:30 PM
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Well that coupled with the cap and trade bill running through the house, that should just about seal the deal on destroying this country.



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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-07-2010, 08:25 PM
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I would consider it IF it was a replacement to the Income Tax. But it isn't so FUCK NO!

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-07-2010, 08:45 PM
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How long before a vibrant underground economy appears, where people barter and pay NO taxes? Won't be long if this turd passes.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-07-2010, 10:27 PM
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bartering is already going on,it just needs to get huge where everyone is doing it.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-08-2010, 08:07 AM
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I wonder if a VAT would apply to used cars? I know I would avoid ever buying a new car if they started a VAT.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-08-2010, 10:33 AM
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I wonder if a VAT would apply to used cars? I know I would avoid ever buying a new car if they started a VAT.
The dems fail to connect actions and consequences. Back in 1990 the dems slapped a luxury tax on yacht builders, as sort of a class warfare move (sound familiar obamaites?). Bush eventually repealed it, but the damage was done.

Yes, they got consequences, but not exactly what they wanted. But they never learn, and now the dim wits have this VAT proposal.... idiots.

Quote:
To understand why the luxury tax on cigars is a terrible idea, we need to revisit the history of the luxury tax of the early 1990s--a history that congressional members' severe amnesia is preventing them from remembering. Class-warfare thinking infected the luxury tax of 1990. Think of the multimillionaire whose wife was wearing a gold-and-diamond necklace and a fur coat. They were getting into their limousine to drive to their 100-foot yacht on which they would spend their weekend. How was it possibly fair that the rich spend so lavishly on such unnecessary items when Joe Six-Pack struggled just to put food on the table? Imposing a luxury tax on those items was a proper way to even things out, to make the rich pay their "fair share" to fund the government programs that helped Joe Six-Pack.

Unfortunately, Congress never bothered to consider that increasing the tax on these items, and thereby increasing the price of those items, might change the behavior of said rich people. (Indeed, many members of Congress stubbornly refuse ever to acknowledge that taxes ever affect behavior.) But said rich people had other ideas. If the price of jewelry, furs and yachts suddenly increased, then maybe purchasing a winter home in Florida seemed like a much better deal. Or maybe those rich people would take a shopping trip to other parts of the world, where the prices of jewelry, furs and yachts were now much more competitive thanks to the U.S. Congress.

And if members of Congress never considered that the luxury tax would discourage rich people from buying luxury items in the U.S., then they surely never considered that such an effect might not be so good for the Joe Six-Packs who worked in the industries producing luxury items. A Joint Economic Committee study later found that 330 jobs in the jewelry industry and 7,600 jobs in the yacht industry were lost thanks to the luxury tax. Perhaps the greatest irony was that in 1991 the federal government paid out over $7 million more in unemployment benefits to those workers than it collected in luxury tax revenues.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/federa.../?id=110010377

So it seems that history is repeating itself yet once again.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-08-2010, 11:26 AM
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Here's what's screwed up...

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47% of families don't have to pay U.S. income tax

WASHINGTON - Tax day is a dreaded deadline for millions, but for nearly half of U.S. households, it's simply somebody else's problem.

About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization.

Most people still are required to file returns by the April 15 deadline. The penalty for skipping it is limited to the amount of taxes owed, but it's still almost always better to file. That's the only way to get a refund of all the income taxes withheld by employers.

In recent years, credits for low- and middle-income families have grown so much that a family of four making as much as $50,000 will owe no federal income tax for 2009, as long as there are two children younger than 17, according to a separate analysis by the consulting firm Deloitte Tax.

Most people who escape federal income taxes still pay other taxes, including federal payroll taxes that fund Social Security and Medicare, and excise taxes on gasoline, aviation, alcohol and cigarettes. Many also pay state or local taxes on sales, income and property.

Income-tax cuts enacted in the past decade have been generous to wealthy taxpayers, too, making them a target for President Barack Obama and Democrats in Congress. Less noticed were tax cuts for low- and middle-income families, which were expanded when Obama signed the massive economic-recovery package last year.

The result is a tax system that exempts almost half of the country from paying for programs that benefit everyone,
including national defense, public safety, infrastructure and education. It is a system in which the top 10 percent of earners, households making an average of $366,400 in 2006, paid about 73 percent of the income taxes collected by the federal government.

The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment.

Clint Stretch, a tax-policy expert at Deloitte, said many people simply look at the difference between their gross pay and their take-home pay and blame the government for the disparity.

"It's not uncommon for people to think that their Social Security taxes, their 401(k) contributions, their share of employer health premiums, all of that stuff in their mind gets lumped into income taxes," Stretch said.

The federal income tax is the government's largest source of revenue, raising more than $900 billion, or a little less than half of all government receipts, in the budget year that ended last Sept. 30. But with deductions and credits, especially for families with children, there have long been people who don't pay it, mainly lower-income families.

The number of households that don't pay federal income taxes increased substantially in 2008, when the poor economy reduced incomes and Congress cut taxes in an attempt to help recovery.

In 2007, about 38 percent of households paid no federal income tax, a figure that jumped to 49 percent in 2008, the Tax Policy Center estimated.

Obama's Making Work Pay credit provides as much as $800 to couples and $400 to individuals. The expanded child tax credit provides $1,000 for each child 16 and younger. The Earned Income Tax Credit provides up to $5,657 to low-income families with at least three children.

There are also tax credits for college expenses, buying a new home and upgrading an existing home with energy-efficient doors, windows, furnaces and other appliances. Many of the credits are refundable, meaning if the credits exceed the amount of income taxes owed, the taxpayer gets a payment from the government for the difference.

The nation's wealthiest taxpayers got big tax breaks under Bush, with the top marginal tax rate cut from 39.6 percent to 35 percent and the second-highest rate cut from 36 percent to 33 percent.

But income-tax rates were lowered at every income level. The changes made it relatively easy for families of four making $50,000 to eliminate their income-tax liability.

Here's how they did it, according to Deloitte Tax:

A hypothetical family was entitled to a standard deduction of $11,400 and four personal exemptions of $3,650 apiece, leaving a taxable income of $24,000. The federal income tax on $24,000 is $2,769.

With two children 16 and younger, the family qualified for two $1,000 child tax credits. Their Making Work Pay credit was $800 because the parents were married filing jointly. The $2,800 in credits exceeded the $2,769 in taxes, so the family made a $31 profit from the federal income tax. That ought to take the sting out of April 15.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...taxes0408.html

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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-08-2010, 11:39 AM
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The dems know they are done, so they are in ram it through cram down mode.

They will push until we pull triggers.

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-08-2010, 11:56 AM
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Well that coupled with the cap and trade bill running through the house, that should just about seal the deal on destroying this country.
They sure are trying their best to achieve that goal.

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-08-2010, 12:17 PM
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Why on earth would you try to tame excessive spending behavior when it's so easy to FORCE us to pay more?

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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-09-2010, 05:38 PM
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bartering is already going on,it just needs to get huge where everyone is doing it.
I'm thinking that if this ever did get going strong, it could force taxation down. They have absolutely no way to control bartering. Or paying with gold.

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Why on earth would you try to tame excessive spending behavior when it's so easy to FORCE us to pay more?
That's going to come back and bite them in the ass, so hard that it draws blood.

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