Texas School Board moves to remove Jefferson from textbooks. - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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Texas School Board moves to remove Jefferson from textbooks.

I can't believe I'm the one posting this:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1253

Quote:
- Thomas Jefferson no longer included among writers influencing the nation’s intellectual origins. Jefferson, a deist who helped pioneer the legal theory of the separation of church and state, is not a model founder in the board’s judgment. Among the intellectual forerunners to be highlighted in Jefferson’s place: medieval Catholic philosopher St. Thomas Aquinas, Puritan theologian John Calvin and conservative British law scholar William Blackstone. Heavy emphasis is also to be placed on the founding fathers having been guided by strict Christian beliefs.
What a crock of shit.

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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 08:18 AM
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I'm more shocked that they are leaning towards the emphasis on "strict Christian beliefs".
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post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 08:29 AM Thread Starter
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That is the motivation for removing Jefferson?

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post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 08:57 AM
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I realize this. My thoughts are that with the push to eliminate religion on so many fronts (from entire towns refusing to display nativity scenes, courthouses removing the ten commandments, the push to not have God in the pledge, etc etc) it seems somewhat ironic that they are removing Jefferson and highlighting the strict adherence to that which has been ostracized for at least the last decade.

So we're either seeing a 180 degree turn in philosophy, or there is a change underway in their approach to rewriting history to suit their wants. This is what I'm trying to work through...
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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 09:23 AM
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That is the motivation for removing Jefferson?
They are not 'removing' him from history books, they are removing the importance of his writings TO American history. While I don't agree with it, it is not the same as erasing him from history like the liberal fuckers from yahoo news are reporting.

I am actually happy to see the shift of Texas public education to the conservative side. The liberal bias it currently has is nauseating.

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post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 09:31 AM
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So we're either seeing a 180 degree turn in philosophy, or there is a change underway in their approach to rewriting history to suit their wants. This is what I'm trying to work through...
It's only us conservative Texans that are changing in philosophy. We're tired of caving to the liberals and we're making a stand.

The rest of the US is still a box of fruit loops.
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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
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They are not 'removing' him from history books, they are removing the importance of his writings TO American history. While I don't agree with it, it is not the same as erasing him from history like the liberal fuckers from yahoo news are reporting.

I am actually happy to see the shift of Texas public education to the conservative side. The liberal bias it currently has is nauseating.

Stevo
I'm sorry you don't like the link I posted, it was the one sent to me. In all fairness, here's the entire rundown, from the horse's mouth:

http://www.tea.state.tx.us/index2.aspx?id=3643

The issue that bothers me is that this is an attempt to remove important contributions to our history. It would be one thing if there was evidence supporting an idea of Jefferson not being one of the most influential writers during the Revolutionary period. This is just an attempt to reduce the knowledge of the true beginnings of this country, which is the same thing that religious groups have complained about regarding the teaching of liberal educators for decades.

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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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It's only us conservative Texans that are changing in philosophy. We're tired of caving to the liberals and we're making a stand.

The rest of the US is still a box of fruit loops.
That all or nothing crap is unfounded, there are fed up people all across the country.

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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 09:51 AM
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I'm sorry you don't like the link I posted, it was the one sent to me. In all fairness, here's the entire rundown, from the horse's mouth:

http://www.tea.state.tx.us/index2.aspx?id=3643

The issue that bothers me is that this is an attempt to remove important contributions to our history. It would be one thing if there was evidence supporting an idea of Jefferson not being one of the most influential writers during the Revolutionary period. This is just an attempt to reduce the knowledge of the true beginnings of this country, which is the same thing that religious groups have complained about regarding the teaching of liberal educators for decades.
My comment about a liberal news would have been the same if it came from msnbc. If you read a bit of either, you can tell the bias very quick.

And for your next comment, I don't really see it as a move to remove certain contributions to history as much as a shift to include other contributions. The liberal slant of the current Texas curriculum has left out a great deal of conservative contributors to our history. I don't agree with limiting Jeffersons importance to our history, but I do agree with the 500 (bullshit # pulled out of my ass) other things that they will now include.

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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Yes I should have known better than to link yahoo, but it was the easiest news outlet to find.

IMO, the motivation for removing certain things, and some of the religious based introductions are what is wrong. Eventually you have to pare down the curriculum to include new material, but you shouldn't do so out of religious bias.

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post #11 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 10:12 AM
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Yes I should have known better than to link yahoo, but it was the easiest news outlet to find.

IMO, the motivation for removing certain things, and some of the religious based introductions are what is wrong. Eventually you have to pare down the curriculum to include new material, but you shouldn't do so out of religious bias.
Most who oppose it will say it is religion-based, most who favor it will say it is conservative-based. It is a shift from liberal left to conservative right, some people will like it, others wont. Which ever slant that it gets from people, I'm glad to see that more conservative contributions will be included.

If you read the comments on the yahoo story, most are more pissed about this comment then the one about Jefferson:

Quote:
- A recommendation to include country and western music among the nation’s important cultural movements. The popular black genre of hip-hop is being dropped from the same list.
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post #12 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 10:27 AM
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You mean to tell me these kids can actually read a text book?

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post #13 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 10:32 AM
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Thomas Jefferson was a brilliant man. Who gives a fuck that he liked eating chocolate covered strawberries that picked cotton.

The entire separation of church and state has gotten so twisted from its original intent.
Originally put in place to keep the government from getting involved in religion to using the gov't to classify everything as gov't and/or 'public' to in fact regulate religious beliefs.

Dumb move by Texas, embrace what the man wrote and the thought process behind it. Not many people today with the stones to commit 'treason' for the hope of freedom..

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post #14 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
They are not 'removing' him from history books, they are removing the importance of his writings TO American history. While I don't agree with it, it is not the same as erasing him from history like the liberal fuckers from yahoo news are reporting.

I am actually happy to see the shift of Texas public education to the conservative side. The liberal bias it currently has is nauseating.

Stevo
Quote:
Originally Posted by sc281_99-0135 View Post
It's only us conservative Texans that are changing in philosophy. We're tired of caving to the liberals and we're making a stand.

The rest of the US is still a box of fruit loops.
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That all or nothing crap is unfounded, there are fed up people all across the country.
WOW. The fact that they can remove factual information in favor of religous beliefs is rediculous. That's like saying the sky is no longer blue and water is no longer wet. At what date will the science books be replaced country wide with the creationist science books? I guess I will have to reteach my daughter real history after she learns a biased view of history.

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post #15 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 03:11 PM
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I agree with the above statement. Why not keep religion in church and actual history in school books?
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post #16 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 03:33 PM
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I agree with the above statement. Why not keep religion in church and actual history in school books?
You are in the minority in this forum. Suggesting that (a certain) religion shouldn't be the force that drives all draws heavy criticism around here.

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post #17 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 03:48 PM
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WOW. The fact that they can remove factual information in favor of religous beliefs is rediculous. That's like saying the sky is no longer blue and water is no longer wet. At what date will the science books be replaced country wide with the creationist science books? I guess I will have to reteach my daughter real history after she learns a biased view of history.
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I agree with the above statement. Why not keep religion in church and actual history in school books?
I am surprised you two would fall hook, line and sinker for an obviously liberal slanting on this story. The yahoo news 'reporter' just picked from the list of stuff being changed/adjusted and grouped it together for shock value.

I guess you rather have your children being taught that Americans are evil Imperialists, capitalism is bad and socialism isn't, Japan attacked the US in self defense in WWII, and all the other liberal BS that has been thrown into the schoolbooks the last 20 years.

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post #18 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 03:57 PM
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On another note, the census form I received in the mail yesterday includes the word "Negro".
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post #19 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 04:03 PM
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On another note, the census form I received in the mail yesterday includes the word "Negro".
Hahaha
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post #20 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 04:13 PM Thread Starter
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I guess you rather have your children being taught that Americans are evil Imperialists, capitalism is bad and socialism isn't, Japan attacked the US in self defense in WWII, and all the other liberal BS that has been thrown into the schoolbooks the last 20 years.

Stevo
Can you substantiate these claims? Doesn't ring a bell, and I've been a student in the last 20 years.

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post #21 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Stevo View Post
I am surprised you two would fall hook, line and sinker for an obviously liberal slanting on this story. The yahoo news 'reporter' just picked from the list of stuff being changed/adjusted and grouped it together for shock value.

I guess you rather have your children being taught that Americans are evil Imperialists, capitalism is bad and socialism isn't, Japan attacked the US in self defense in WWII, and all the other liberal BS that has been thrown into the schoolbooks the last 20 years.

Stevo
This is corporatism not capitalism.
Just because I think it's absurd and wrong what they are trying to put into books does not automatically make me a believer in the extreme opposite of conservatism.

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post #22 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 04:26 PM
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I am surprised you two would fall hook, line and sinker for an obviously liberal slanting on this story. The yahoo news 'reporter' just picked from the list of stuff being changed/adjusted and grouped it together for shock value.

I guess you rather have your children being taught that Americans are evil Imperialists, capitalism is bad and socialism isn't, Japan attacked the US in self defense in WWII, and all the other liberal BS that has been thrown into the schoolbooks the last 20 years.

Stevo
I have been a student in the last 20 years and have never heard that japan attacked the US in self defense. As far as capatalism, I would rather teach my kids what capatalism is and let them make up their own minds on what they consider right and wrong. I would hope that schools arent enforcing their own beliefs and opinions on my kids and instead teach them facts and let them make their own decisions.

Im so tired of everything being either liberal or conservative. Stop using labels and look at it as either right or wrong instead.
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post #23 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 04:27 PM
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Can you substantiate these claims? Doesn't ring a bell, and I've been a student in the last 20 years.
A student for 20 years? Wow, I guess that makes you a professional student, think you will be retiring soon?

The first one is actually in the yahoo news story, the second is the general opinion that most of my children and my nieces/nephews social studies/history books seem to have, and the third was actually out of one of my nephew's history book from somewhere in 2004-05, it was in a section discussing alternative views of American history. I'd call him and ask which exact book/year it was from, but he is deployed currently.

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post #24 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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A student for 20 years? Wow, I guess that makes you a professional student, think you will be retiring soon?

The first one is actually in the yahoo news story, the second is the general opinion that most of my children and my nieces/nephews social studies/history books seem to have, and the third was actually out of one of my nephew's history book from somewhere in 2004-05, it was in a section discussing alternative views of American history. I'd call him and ask which exact book/year it was from, but he is deployed currently.

Stevo
LOL, I'm trying to debate you, and you're going MIS-read my post, then try toflame me based on your fuck up? Smooooooooth.

I re-read the article, no where in there does it mention that Japan acted in self-defense, and the terms 'imperialism' isn't negative without context, and 'capitalism' does mean free market.

A section discussing alternative views does not imply that that is the thought process being shoved down people's throat. Hence your terminology, 'discussing alternative views.' It's good for students to understand how and why other people in the world could potentially view the actions of our country in the past.

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post #25 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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I have been a student in the last 20 years and have never heard that japan attacked the US in self defense.
20 year student, huh? Gonna retire soon?



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post #26 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 04:43 PM
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LOL, I'm trying to debate you, and you're going MIS-read my post, then try toflame me based on your fuck up? Smooooooooth.
Yeah, I misread your post, sorry about that. I wasn't flaming though, I was just wishing I could have been a student for 20 years.

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I re-read the article, no where in there does it mention that Japan acted in self-defense, and the terms 'imperialism' isn't negative without context, and 'capitalism' does mean free market.
Quote:
- Changes in specific terminology. Terms that the board’s conservative majority felt were ideologically loaded are being retired. Hence, “imperialism” as a characterization of America’s modern rise to world power is giving way to “expansionism,”
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A section discussing alternative views does not imply that that is the thought process being shoved down people's throat. Hence your terminology, 'discussing alternative views.' It's good for students to understand how and why other people in the world could potentially view the actions of our country in the past.
Um, it was in his history book, and he was tested on it. Whether or not you consider it 'being shoved down his throat', it was taught to him.

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post #27 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 05:05 PM
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Thomas Jefferson is an American hero-- you might as well burn an American flag as attempt to rewrite his importance to our heritage. Let's call that class "Texas Mythology" or "American History- The New Testament". lol

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post #28 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 05:56 PM
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Here comes more Harriet Tubman and Rosa Parks

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post #29 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
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Here comes more Harriet Tubman and Rosa Parks
You should read the link to the TEA site, they're actually removing some CR activists.

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post #30 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 06:22 PM
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I have been a student in the last 20 years and have never heard that japan attacked the US in self defense. As far as capatalism, I would rather teach my kids what capatalism is and let them make up their own minds on what they consider right and wrong. I would hope that schools arent enforcing their own beliefs and opinions on my kids and instead teach them facts and let them make their own decisions.

Im so tired of everything being either liberal or conservative. Stop using labels and look at it as either right or wrong instead.
I see your point, but I don't really think the difference that libs and cons see between each other is right or wrong. I think it's more like stupid and smart. Well, the libs think the cons are "wrong" cause they don't want social programs to "help" people. When in reality, they just want to be smart with their money.

But yeah, I can kinda see the point about the whole separation of church and state thing. I mean, if you don't have it, eventually, you will get someone in there passing laws that have to do with religion. And in the worst case scenario, using religion to seize power. It is possible. But it's obvious that the atheists of the world just childishly want it removed because they don't like it.

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post #31 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 11:06 PM
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Yes I should have known better than to link yahoo, but it was the easiest news outlet to find.

IMO, the motivation for removing certain things, and some of the religious based introductions are what is wrong. Eventually you have to pare down the curriculum to include new material, but you shouldn't do so out of religious bias.

LMAO. I love that (on this website) we not only have to weigh the veracity of our statements, but also that of our links...

Where else but here?


And agreed on the latter. It is at best hypocritical, as religion is so often used as nothing more than a talking point to incite a certain demographic in so many venues.

It's really kinda sad how we are all so easily manipulated...
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post #32 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 11:38 PM
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home school?

revolution?

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post #33 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-16-2010, 11:40 PM
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home school?
My kids will most likely be....
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post #34 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-17-2010, 07:50 AM
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home school?
Only problem with that is your trading a propaganda filled curiculum for social skills. My ex wife was home schooled since middle school and she is very book smart but a social idiot.
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post #35 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-17-2010, 08:33 AM
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Well maybe you could let them go to public schools for like 1rst through 4rth grade, then do the rest home school. Keep them in the same school the whole time though, so they make all the typical school friends. Private schools are the shit, if you can afford them. I have a younger cousin who went to a private school all his life and from what he describes, it wasn't even remotely similar to my 1rst-12th public school experience. I told him that he was very lucky lol

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post #36 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-17-2010, 09:36 AM
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Well maybe you could let them go to public schools for like 1rst through 4rth grade, then do the rest home school. Keep them in the same school the whole time though, so they make all the typical school friends. Private schools are the shit, if you can afford them. I have a younger cousin who went to a private school all his life and from what he describes, it wasn't even remotely similar to my 1rst-12th public school experience. I told him that he was very lucky lol
Private schools are the worst IMO. My ex wife and I looked into them but honestly I said no only because I firmly believe private schools shelter kids from the real world. My current wife went to a all girls catholic school for many years and even she agrees that when she finally attended public highschool it was a major shock to her.

Like I said, its just my opinion and Im sure the education at private schools is better but the bad just outweighs the good.
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post #37 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-17-2010, 09:47 AM
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i have 1 in 8th grade and 1 in 4th.

home schooling is my next step..

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post #38 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-17-2010, 11:22 AM
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Thomas Jefferson is an American hero-- you might as well burn an American flag as attempt to rewrite his importance to our heritage. Let's call that class "Texas Mythology" or "American History- The New Testament". lol
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home school?

revolution?
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i have 1 in 8th grade and 1 in 4th.

home schooling is my next step..
good luck with finding the right books.

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post #39 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-17-2010, 04:18 PM
Lifer
 
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30% of Texans believed we, at one point, roamed the Earth with the dinosaurs. This isn't really that surprising given the majority of Texas are Christian fundamentalists.

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post #40 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-17-2010, 06:24 PM
Lifer
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
30% of Texans believed we, at one point, roamed the Earth with the dinosaurs. This isn't really that surprising given the majority of Texas are Christian fundamentalists.
Believed? Does that mean they used to believe that but don't believe that now?

Also, 30% is not a majority. 51% or more is.
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post #41 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-17-2010, 07:01 PM
Lifer
 
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Excuse me for making a typo.

I didn't say 30% is a majority. That's a new sentence, dude.

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post #42 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-17-2010, 07:52 PM
Lifer
 
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Fail

Both posts are moronic, and obviously pulled out of your ass, "dude".
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post #43 of 43 (permalink) Old 03-18-2010, 08:42 AM
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Not to mention that "dinosaurs" existed with the american indians, up until around 3K years ago. So the 30% of Texans would be correct.

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