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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
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Health care reform latest...

Chris Matthews just reported that the new healthcare plan proposed by the Dems is to give us the same plan the federal employees have. If it is the same plan my father-in-law had when he was an FBI agent, I am all in.

I got busy right after the story started and couldn't watch all the details. Does anyone have the specifics? I bet it is too good to be true. The federal employees have a great health insurance plan from what my FIL and MIL have said.


< -- Does not have much faith that this will actually happen, it will at best be a very watered down version.

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I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 07:31 PM
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Ain't no fucking way they are going to let that happen.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 07:43 PM
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Hell, if they're gonna shove one down my throat it may as well be a good one...
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 07:45 PM
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Who will pay for that bad boy? Can you say "rationing"?

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 07:49 PM
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It might begin as that but will quickly drop off in quality / services because funding cant be sustained, to many leeches.

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox466 View Post
Hell, if they're gonna shove one down my throat it may as well be a good one...
Exactly right.

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Originally Posted by Vertnut View Post
Who will pay for that bad boy? Can you say "rationing"?
I know what happened when we had a great private insurance here at the city. The insurance company could not raise premiums enough to keep up with the claims. We got a decent insurance company (nowhere near as good as the previous) and had to pay alot more for it once that contract expired. If we get some sweet deal insurance it will get used so much by the idiots that no one will be able to keep it.

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If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 09:38 PM
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You lost me at Chris Matthews, Fuck that POS! If it was an honest bill that was really in the best interest of the people I'd be all for it, but it's the exact opposite side of the spectrum that is the real reason behind this crap.

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 10:13 PM
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They will promise you the moon to get it passed but after that all bets are off. Once it is passed it will never go back to the way it was no mater how bad the health care system gets.

Universal heath care is NOT universal health care. It is just a law that says that you must have heath insurance just because you are alive the same way you must have auto insurance to drive. IT WILL NOT BE FREE.

Also having universal heath coverage IS NOT the same as having universal access to treatment. It's like starving to death while having your pockets stuffed with $100 bills and not being able to find food to buy.

I have lived in country's that have government run "free" health care and it is the worst system that you could imagine.

This health care bill also has nothing to do with health care. It is just a means to tap into another stream of cash to piss away just like what has been done with the money collected for Social Security. It is also the best vehicle for the government to take over a HUGE chunk of you life.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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You lost me at Chris Matthews, Fuck that POS! If it was an honest bill that was really in the best interest of the people I'd be all for it, but it's the exact opposite side of the spectrum that is the real reason behind this crap.
If you don't listen to the enemy, how will you know what they are up to? Remember, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

Do you listen to anyone who thinks differently than you or not? I sure do.

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If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 10:43 PM
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5% of the people soak of 48% of the resources. Concrete shoe those people and we won't be having this debate right now anyway.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Paladin View Post
If you don't listen to the enemy, how will you know what they are up to? Remember, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

Do you listen to anyone who thinks differently than you or not? I sure do.
Certainly, I listen to you daily.

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-08-2009, 08:27 AM
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5% of the people soak of 48% of the resources. Concrete shoe those people and we won't be having this debate right now anyway.

I've got two mexican recliners and a 1/4 yard mixer we can use...
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-08-2009, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Certainly, I listen to you daily.
You have a serious judgment issue.

One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America

If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-08-2009, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
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If you don't listen to the enemy, how will you know what they are up to? Remember, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

Do you listen to anyone who thinks differently than you or not? I sure do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR TINFOIL HAT View Post
Certainly, I listen to you daily.
This exchange actually made me chuckle.

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 02:00 AM
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AP sources: Dems reach deal to drop gov't-run plan

by ASSOCIATED PRESS

Posted on December 8, 2009 at 10:08 PM

WASHINGTON – After days of secret talks, Senate Democrats tentatively agreed Tuesday night to drop a full-blown government-run insurance option from sweeping health care legislation, several officials said, a concession to party moderates whose votes are critical to passage of President Barack Obama's top domestic priority.

In its place, officials said Democrats had tentatively settled on a private insurance arrangement to be supervised by the federal agency that oversees the system through which lawmakers purchase coverage, with the possibility of greater government involvement if needed to ensure consumers of sufficient choices in coverage.

Additionally, the emerging agreement calls for Medicare to be opened to uninsured Americans beginning at age 55, a significant expansion of the large government health care program that currently serves the 65-and-over population.

At a hastily called evening news conference in the Capitol, Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., declined to provide details of what he described as a "broad agreement" between liberals and moderates on an issue that has plagued Democrats' efforts to pass health care legislation from the outset.

With it, he added with a smile, the end is in sight for passage of the legislation that Congress has labored over for months.

The officials who described the details of the closed-door negotiations did so on condition of anonymity, saying they were not authorized to discuss them publicly. Several officials stressed that so far, Democrats had technically agreed only on submitting proposals to the Congressional Budget Office for their impact on the bill's cost and other analysis.

At its core, the legislation would expand health care to millions who lack it, ban insurance companies from denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions and rein in the rise of health care spending nationally.

The developments followed a vote on the Senate floor earlier in the day in which abortion opponents failed to inject tougher restrictions into sweeping health care bill, and Democratic leaders labored to make sure fallout from the issue didn't hamper the drive to enact legislation. The vote was 54-45.

Taken together, the day's developments underscored the complexity that confronts the administration and Reid as they seek the 60 votes needed to overcome Republican opposition and pass a bill by Christmas. Despite their reluctance, some senators had talked openly and in detail earlier in the day about the progress of the negotiations.

The provision in the legislation to be dropped under the emerging agreement provides for a government-run insurance option to be available to consumers, with individual states permitted to drop out. Liberals have long sought such as arrangement, as a means of forcing competition on insurance companies.

One participant in the talks, Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa, referring to a deal among the negotiators, told reporters he didn't like it, but added, "I'm going to support it to the hilt" in hopes of securing passage of the health care bill.

Another senator involved, Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., issued a statement saying, "I do not support proposals that would replace the public option in the bill with a purely private approach. We need to have some competition for the insurance industry to keep rates down and save taxpayer dollars." But he did not rule out voting for the measure.

The White House quickly applauded the developments. "Senators are making great progress and we're pleased that they're working together to find common ground toward options that increase choice and competition," said a spokesman, Reid Cherlin.

In his comments to reporters, Reid said the emerging compromise "includes a public option and will help ensure the American people win in two ways: one, insurance companies will face more competition, and two, the American people will have more choices."

It wasn't clear what he meant by a "public option," the Medicare expansion or a fallback in case private insurance companies declined to participate in the nationwide plan envisioned to be overseen by the Office of Personnel Management. One possibility was for the agency to set up a government-run plan, either national in scope or on a state-by-state basis.

Under the tentative agreement, liberals lost their bid to expand Medicaid, the federal-state program that provides health care for the poor, elderly and disabled. But they prevailed on the Medicare expansion, and the negotiators appeared ready to maintain a separate health care program for children until 2013, two years longer than the bill currently calls for, according to officials familiar with the details.

Additionally, there was consensus support for a requirement long backed by Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., and other liberals for insurance companies to spend at least 90 percent of their premium income providing benefits, a step that supporters argue effectively limits their spending on advertising, salaries, promotional efforts and profits.

Reid — the chief architect of the health care bill as well as an abortion opponent — played a prominent role in the debate over attempts by conservatives to toughen restrictions in the Senate measure. "No one should use the health care bill to expand or restrict abortion," he said, arguing that abortion foes were attempting to do just that. "And no one should use the issue of abortion to rob millions of the opportunity to get good health care."

The current legislation would ban the use of federal funds to pay for abortion services under insurance plans expected to be offered in a new health care system, except in cases of rape, incest or when the life of the mother is in jeopardy.

Individuals who receive federal subsidies to purchase insurance under the plans would be permitted to use personal funds to pay for abortion services — the point on which the two sides in the dispute part company.

"Segregation of funds is an accounting gimmick," said Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb., the chief Democratic supporter of tightened restrictions. "The reality is federal funds would help buy coverage that includes abortion."

Abortion rights supporters, Senate Democratic women most prominently, countered heatedly.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said abortion opponents were driven by ideology, and Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, D-N.H., called the proposed changes "a very far-reaching intrusion into the lives of women."

The amendment that Nelson, Sen. Robert Casey, D-Pa, Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, and numerous Republicans proposed would also have barred insurance plans from covering abortions except in the three categories if any of their policyholders received federal subsidies. It also would have required insurance companies that offer no-abortion plans to make available a policy that offers such services.

In all, 50 Democrats, two Republicans and two independents voted to kill the abortion proposal. Thirty-eight Republicans and seven Democrats favored it.

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it was not a problem to bring money to his house at 10pm.so why is it a problem to call and bitch.it wasnt a problem when we were all sitting around smoking pot together.yes i said it we all were smoking pot together.what now stupid.
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 10:39 AM
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"This health care bill also has nothing to do with health care. It is just a means to tap into another stream of cash to piss away just like what has been done with the money collected for Social Security. It is also the best vehicle for the government to take over a HUGE chunk of you life."


that sums it up pretty well.

its still "we the people"right?

"So this is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause"

"a lesson lived is a lesson learned, everyday is a lesson."

obama is a man made disaster
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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 10:48 AM
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The officials who described the details of the closed-door negotiations did so on condition of anonymity, saying they were not authorized to discuss them publicly


Im sure im not the only one who sees a problem with this...

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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 11:16 PM
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I think what they meant is that they finally came to an agreement on how much bribe money was gonna have to be paid in order to get those votes they needed. Fucking politicans are clueless and so out of touch with common people its sickening.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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