Abc Piece on the Patriot Act - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 09:18 PM Thread Starter
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Abc Piece on the Patriot Act

Here's proof it's abused, and the Lady at the end hits the nail on the head with her final statement.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sunse...ory?id=9173895

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 11-30-2009, 10:29 PM
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Heh, I would be surprised if that was all that it has been used to do...
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 01:37 AM
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The Patriot Act saves lives!

Racial Profiling saves lives!

Prisoner torture saves lives!
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Denny View Post
The Patriot Act saves lives!

Racial Profiling saves lives!

Prisoner torture saves lives!
Racial profiling didn't work at Fort Hood, neither did all the intel they gathered on the shooter. You say it works, I say it doesn't.

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 12:06 PM
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Our constitution essentially reads "...so long as the ends justify the means" right? I mean, that's how I 'interpret' it.

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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MR TINFOIL HAT View Post
Racial profiling didn't work at Fort Hood, neither did all the intel they gathered on the shooter. You say it works, I say it doesn't.
The LACK of racial profiling was the problem... keep up.
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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The LACK of racial profiling was the problem... keep up.
Nice try, but exactly the opposite. We had the Intel, and we certainly had the power to stop it. They knew about him and his beliefs, but our administration doesn't want to label the Muslims terrorists, regardless of how many Americans are murdered.

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 02:34 PM
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Nice try, but exactly the opposite. We had the Intel, and we certainly had the power to stop it. They knew about him and his beliefs, but our administration doesn't want to label the Muslims terrorists, regardless of how many Americans are murdered.
OK, so they REFUSED to utilize racial profiling to stop a potential threat. Thanks for clearing that up.
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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They knew about him and did nothing. A direct result of this is Americans were killed. This is all that matters in this situation.

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 02:48 PM
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They knew about him and did nothing. A direct result of this is Americans were killed. This is all that matters in this situation.
BUT if they did take actions based on the given elements...



Come on, I'm trying to get you to come up with this one.
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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BUT if they did take actions based on the given elements...



Come on, I'm trying to get you to come up with this one.
Then the Muslims would scream, so what? When did offending someone take priority over the safety of Americans?

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 05:34 PM
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The Patriot Act saves lives!

Racial Profiling saves lives!

Prisoner torture saves lives!
I see some one bought the neo-con fear tactics, hook line and sinker.

Prove spying on Americans saves lives. Prove handing over your 4th amendment saves lives.

BTW, even if it did, I agree with Ben Franklin. I'll take my chances, and keep my freedom.



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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 11:56 PM
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Then the Muslims would scream, so what? When did offending someone take priority over the safety of Americans?
Thus, the reason they DIDN'T use racial profiling. See?
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2009, 12:02 AM
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I see some one bought the neo-con fear tactics, hook line and sinker.

Prove spying on Americans saves lives. Prove handing over your 4th amendment saves lives.

BTW, even if it did, I agree with Ben Franklin. I'll take my chances, and keep my freedom.
If you were told just how many terror plots were actually intercepted and terminated, THEN we'd have panic of the masses. Panic is what they're trying to avoid.

Ben Franklin didn't have to address the same threats as we do now. I wish people would quit with the comparison. If you can figure out a better way to keep the threat in check, I'm all ears and ready to vote you into office. Until then, I'm going to side with what we've got because it's working better than people know about.

Check my email... tap my phone! I've got nothing to hide. I'm not a criminal or doing anything to get me in trouble. Sounds like we have a shitload of people with something to hide. No wonder our country is in the shitter.
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2009, 02:28 AM
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If you were told just how many terror plots were actually intercepted and terminated, THEN we'd have panic of the masses. Panic is what they're trying to avoid.

Ben Franklin didn't have to address the same threats as we do now. I wish people would quit with the comparison. If you can figure out a better way to keep the threat in check, I'm all ears and ready to vote you into office. Until then, I'm going to side with what we've got because it's working better than people know about.

Check my email... tap my phone! I've got nothing to hide. I'm not a criminal or doing anything to get me in trouble. Sounds like we have a shitload of people with something to hide. No wonder our country is in the shitter.
no thanks, I want my rights and freedoms granted by the paper that this country was founded on.

Doesn't matter if you have anything to hide or not, with this act if they say you are a terrorist then you are a terrorist. You no longer have a right to councel or a trial. This is so easy to abuse because of with this act those that are taken because of it will never be able to speak out about it.

It cracks me up that you think this act does anything more than grant the gov more power to spy on the people. it doesn't stop terrorism, compare the time before the act and after the act and count how many arrest were made the right way and how many terrorist attacks made it thru. you will find out that the numbers are almost equal.

so where does the PA save lives?

better yet you claim to be a true rep, yet you want a bill that goes against the REP party line, this bill is more closely tied to the DEM party line. Yet because bush signed it you all that love this act prove that you really don't think for yourself and are sheep that are following the flock. Let me guess you are catholic as well.

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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2009, 02:34 AM
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Shit. I'm already considered a "Domestic Terrorist" by the Liberal definition. Do you really think anyone gives two shits about what you are saying on the phone/internet? Let them catch their bad guys and have a better tomorrow.

I guess I don't feel violated because I don't have anything to hide. Either that or I just don't give a fuck.
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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2009, 02:37 AM
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better yet you claim to be a true rep, yet you want a bill that goes against the REP party line, this bill is more closely tied to the DEM party line. Yet because bush signed it you all that love this act prove that you really don't think for yourself and are sheep that are following the flock. Let me guess you are catholic as well.
Find one post where I claim any ties to ANY party! Sure, most of my stances fall on the Conservative side, but ALL of my stances fall on the side that betters our society. If I'm not following a party to a tee, as you claim; how is it that I'm a sheep following a flock?

No. I'm FAR from Catholic, but Jesus does rock my soul!
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2009, 02:39 AM
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No. I'm FAR from Catholic, but Jesus does rock my soul!
Jesus!
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2009, 02:44 AM
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Jesus!
When are you up here? I'm here until Jan 11th. Jesus is with me.
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2009, 02:47 AM
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When are you up here? I'm here until Jan 11th. Jesus is with me.
Sweet, I need my lawn mowed.

I'm in Dallas from December 16-19 and January 2-13.
(Have to pick up my tickets to the National Championship game on Dec. 15th .)
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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2009, 02:50 AM
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You're going?!?! Sweet! Those books must be paying off because I know your day job ain't payin' the bills

I know this because of the Patriot Act... and I'm a bit of a stalker.
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2009, 02:53 AM
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You're going?!?! Sweet! Those books must be paying off because I know your day job ain't payin' the bills

I know this because of the Patriot Act... and I'm a bit of a stalker.
If we get by Nebraska, I'll get 2 tickets. I'll likely sell them. A couple grand return on a $200 investment isn't bad. The books are paying off, and the day job isn't paying shit!
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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2009, 01:27 PM
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Nice try, but exactly the opposite. We had the Intel, and we certainly had the power to stop it. They knew about him and his beliefs, but our administration doesn't want to label the Muslims terrorists, regardless of how many Americans are murdered.
Which is not using racial profiling. If you see a young black kid, in a poor area, known for drug use, and he's rolling in an 80k ride, blinging out racial profiling says "hey, that kid probably has illegal drugs or guns on him, let's stop him and see"

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2009, 01:40 PM
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Ben Franklin and the Constitution are both outdated. Let's send it off to the Supreme Court to be revised as we see fit to proliferate our political agendas!

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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-03-2009, 05:57 PM
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If you were told just how many terror plots were actually intercepted and terminated, THEN we'd have panic of the masses.

Ben Franklin didn't have to address the same threats as we do now. I wish people would quit with the comparison. If you can figure out a better way to keep the threat in check, I'm all ears and ready to vote you into office. Until then, I'm going to side with what we've got because it's working better than people know about.

Check my email... tap my phone! I've got nothing to hide. I'm not a criminal or doing anything to get me in trouble. Sounds like we have a shitload of people with something to hide. No wonder our country is in the shitter.

If I was told? Well, I was not told, neither where you? You where just told there was a lot. And there is the fear factor I was referring to, and you still don't get it.

And your right, Ben Franklin was not facing what we are. His situation was much worse. No trained military to speak of, and an trained army bearing down on him. I would say he had it worse, and yet non of the founding fathers took any one's rights away for the sake of safety. And they knew that there was a very large part of the population in favor of the British winning.

Check you mail, tap you phone? You sure do sound like some one that would fit right in a communist society with out any problems.
I for one will not stand for that B.S. and yet I have nothing to hide either. Hummm go figure.

And what I wish people would stop saying. Oh it's ok if the feds take that away. Its no big deal. Wake up . It is a big deal. Just because it does not directly affect you. Who's to say the next right they take will not affect you?
They are all worth fighting for in the eyes of a real American.



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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-04-2009, 10:52 PM
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If I was told? Well, I was not told, neither where you? You where just told there was a lot. And there is the fear factor I was referring to, and you still don't get it.

And your right, Ben Franklin was not facing what we are. His situation was much worse. No trained military to speak of, and an trained army bearing down on him. I would say he had it worse, and yet non of the founding fathers took any one's rights away for the sake of safety. And they knew that there was a very large part of the population in favor of the British winning.

Check you mail, tap you phone? You sure do sound like some one that would fit right in a communist society with out any problems.
I for one will not stand for that B.S. and yet I have nothing to hide either. Hummm go figure.

And what I wish people would stop saying. Oh it's ok if the feds take that away. Its no big deal. Wake up . It is a big deal. Just because it does not directly affect you. Who's to say the next right they take will not affect you?
They are all worth fighting for in the eyes of a real American.
Ah, I see now. You're one of those people who want to see results as long as YOU aren't the one making any sacrifices, right?

My privacy, my privacy, my privacy!!!!

The people putting forth an effort to stop this bullshit aren't bitching about their privacy. What is your role in making this world a safer place?
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 08:28 AM
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Racial profiling didn't work at Fort Hood, neither did all the intel they gathered on the shooter. You say it works, I say it doesn't.
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Then the Muslims would scream, so what? When did offending someone take priority over the safety of Americans?
IMO, whoever was in charge of the racial profiling that let that guy continue on, should be fired immediately. But as for the patriot act..I dont have anything to hide either, but I'll be damned if I want some paranoid nosy needle dick prick reading my email and listening in to my phone conversations. Get a fucking life! How bout this: if my first name is Habib, and my last name is Hussien, the check to see if I am a terrorist. If not, then leave me the fuck alone cause I am just an american citizen. Why can't we do that? Course, if we started doing things my way, there wouldn't be one person from over there living in the US anymore. They would all go home, and we wouldn't be accepting applications for 80 years.
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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 11:59 AM
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The Patriot Act saves lives!

Racial Profiling saves lives!

Prisoner torture saves lives!
So would you say that just because something saves lives we should do it?

I don't want to throw out an extreme example and get distracted on the details, but at what point do the individual freedoms enumerated in the constitution come into play?

It seems like first you took the stance that nobody could prove that the Patriot Act was being abused, now that there is proof you say (more or less) that it doesn't matter because it saves lives? (I haven't been following you around here so I could have you confused with someone else, this is just from memory)

If you accept that what was posted shows the Act is being abused, why would you be ok with that? Is protection more important than freedom/constitution?

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have."
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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-07-2009, 01:03 PM
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IMO, whoever was in charge of the racial profiling that let that guy continue on, should be fired immediately. But as for the patriot act..I dont have anything to hide either, but I'll be damned if I want some paranoid nosy needle dick prick reading my email and listening in to my phone conversations. Get a fucking life! How bout this: if my first name is Habib, and my last name is Hussien, the check to see if I am a terrorist. If not, then leave me the fuck alone cause I am just an american citizen. Why can't we do that? Course, if we started doing things my way, there wouldn't be one person from over there living in the US anymore. They would all go home, and we wouldn't be accepting applications for 80 years.
What if Mr. Hussien is (a)n United States citizen just like YOU, do you think the U.S. Government should scrutinize him or her more than you because of there color of skin or origin of name?
How about Timothy McVeigh a registered Republican and member of the NRA.
An Army Veteran and devout Roman Catholic and let us not forget a U.S. Citizen just like you and me. For all intended purposes a model American. He was (a)n and always will be a Domestic Terrorist.
Point being is that a persons name or religion do not make them a terrorist their actions and believes do. The Patriot Act does work but WE can not allow the U.S. Government to CHIP away at our Constitutional Rights in the name of Safety and National Security. Some of those people you wish to kick out out of our Country are the very same ones that are helping us decipher those TEXTS, E-Mails and Coded Message Transmission from the very same people that want to cause us harm.
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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 02:05 AM
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Of course some of those I wish to kick out are helping. But much like the Fort Hood shooter, who can say when they will one day decide to go ahead and "Convert to Islam"? Some bad apples ruined it for the whole bunch. Happens all the time, in all kinds of situations other than terrorism. Everyone gets to suffer cause a few can't act right. It wouldn't take away our freedoms, just theirs. They would have to go back to living in their own country, and since I'm not one of them, I don't care. Besides it's not like they are facing "certain death" if that happens or something like that. They just don't get to live high on the hog anymore. So I'm sorry if I don't have too much sympathy. Heartless? Yeah. Would it put a dead stop to terrorism here? Also yeah. Anyone suspected of being here illegally could be reported, and it could be checked out very quickly (without even harassing them) to see if they belonged here. If they did belong here, then nothing ever comes of it and they aren't even bothered with it. But too many people would find this to be "inhumane" or something retarded like that.

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post #31 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 10:37 AM
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So would you say that just because something saves lives we should do it?

I don't want to throw out an extreme example and get distracted on the details, but at what point do the individual freedoms enumerated in the constitution come into play?

It seems like first you took the stance that nobody could prove that the Patriot Act was being abused, now that there is proof you say (more or less) that it doesn't matter because it saves lives? (I haven't been following you around here so I could have you confused with someone else, this is just from memory)

If you accept that what was posted shows the Act is being abused, why would you be ok with that? Is protection more important than freedom/constitution?
What he will not admit is that it has failed a few times now and proves it is no better than our old system. In fact it shows that the FBI, CIA, and NSA still don't share info. So we all lost some freedom so big bother can listen in on calls and detain you with a charge, fast trial, or legal counsel. Glad we don't live in Russia, well not yet anyway.

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post #32 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 10:52 AM
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They knew about him and did nothing. A direct result of this is Americans were killed. This is all that matters in this situation.
People die every day. There is no guarantee that you will be breathing tomorrow. It is impossible to prevent every murder and if someone has it in their minds to make a statement and kill people, then there usually isnt a lot we can do about it. If LE spent time pursuing all the what-ifs out there they wouldnt have time to write tickets and harass the common folk! Its unfortunate that those soldiers died, but using the retrospectoscope to crucify decsions is just silly. My opinion is that we have to spend more time and energy here at home and less in other countries. We need to look out for ourselves and spend more time assuring our way of life...yes, that is what we are attempting by the whole Iraq and Al-Qaida BS, but it obviously isnt going as planned.
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post #33 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 05:58 PM
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Ah, I see now. You're one of those people who want to see results as long as YOU aren't the one making any sacrifices, right?

My privacy, my privacy, my privacy!!!!

The people putting forth an effort to stop this bullshit aren't bitching about their privacy. What is your role in making this world a safer place?

You see? You don't see is the problem.

Who said anything about sacrifice? Why should ANYONE sacrifice?

And yes it is MY PRIVACY, and btw, it's yours too.

My roll, is to let people know there are ways to stop this crap with out turning this country into a socialist society (one freedom at a time). And debating with liberals that think it's just hunky dory to shit on the constitution and bill of rights in the so called name of safety.

Putting forth an effort? Who? The only effort being put forth is the removal of your rights.

So what your roll? Helping turn this country into a communistic state, by helping spread the B.S.?


And just to bring it all home, what good did all the B.S. new regulations do to stop the last wood bee terrorist?......... That's right...... NOTHING!



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post #34 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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People die every day. There is no guarantee that you will be breathing tomorrow. It is impossible to prevent every murder and if someone has it in their minds to make a statement and kill people, then there usually isnt a lot we can do about it. If LE spent time pursuing all the what-ifs out there they wouldnt have time to write tickets and harass the common folk! Its unfortunate that those soldiers died, but using the retrospectoscope to crucify decsions is just silly. My opinion is that we have to spend more time and energy here at home and less in other countries. We need to look out for ourselves and spend more time assuring our way of life...yes, that is what we are attempting by the whole Iraq and Al-Qaida BS, but it obviously isnt going as planned.
The we can't chase every lead song and dance is tiresome. They can chase every lead when it benefits them in other areas, so I don't buy that BS excuse, especially when it's America's safety they want to cut corners on. We will never be safe no matter how many rights these dip shits take away in the name of security. The one's we need to fear most aren't terrorists, they're the ones in the white house.

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #35 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 09:08 PM
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I agree with you...but it just isnt gonna happen. It seems that nobody (in politics) really cares about America.
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post #36 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-30-2009, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davbrucas View Post
I agree with you...but it just isnt gonna happen. It seems that nobody (in politics) really cares about America.
You're right, the politicians definitely don't care.

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #37 of 37 (permalink) Old 12-31-2009, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davbrucas View Post
I agree with you...but it just isnt gonna happen. It seems that nobody (in politics) really cares about America.
Of course not, just their checkbooks expanding, (with the exception of a very few)
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