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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2009, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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How should I respond to this?

From another of my sites, I have this annoying character who just loves socialized medicine and thinks Barry is great. He said he's flown to Tiawan for dental work, which I have difficulty believing and this came up.

It's hilarious how you anti-government wanna be hermits keep up this "everything handed to you" bullshit when the public option we want will end up being paid for by us in the form of taxes.

You don't want to pay any taxes, at all? Then stop driving on my roads, stop showering in my clean water, and stop relying on my military and my police to protect you. I don't have shit handed to me for free, because I pay my taxes.

And all of your examples of going to foreign hospitals seem to stem from military service. In other words, the military footed your bill, the military pointed you to where you need to go, and you didn't have to personally deal with jack shit financially. But I'm sure you will claim otherwise in order to help your case.

Honestly, in conclusion; you're both a couple of military has-beens with head injuries who harbor some sort of ill-will to the rest of the world, and look for every way to stay in the dark ages and stem progress in this country as you can in order to lash back at the society you feel rejects you. That's my psychoanalysis for you.

This is my response:

Actually Shawn, I could just sit back and watch Rome burn. I don't pay taxes. Property, school, income tax, medicare and medicaid AND my tags are 3 bucks a year which means I don't pay road taxes. I could be perfectly happy watching everyone's taxes skyrocket and my parents hand more and more of their retirement to the government, but I can't. Why? Because I was taught to do the right thing and to honor our country and the Constitution. Which is exactly what I'm doing.

Oh, and again, the police don't protect you. At all. They do not have the obligation to take care of you, merely to file the papers after you're dead. That's about it.

Military has beens. Interesting. last time I checked, everything I get in the mail has my rank on it, from the VA and the military. I wasn't aware we are in the dark ages. I thought MRI's, nuclear medicine, high tech treatments and the fact we have some of the highest life expectancies in the world, was pretty new stuff. I could be wrong. I'll go poke my plasma tv with a stick and grunt at the moving pictures you dillhole.

This country isn't working towards progress, it's working towards socialism. This country was founded on self independence and limited government. I've had some very interesting people do psychoanalysis, you're not one of them. I pulled my latest and laughed. Seems I'm still scoring superior on the IQ tests and all that good stuff. You're a mook and wanting to bring this country down to the level of every 3rd world country out there. You like them so much? Go there. Hell, Cubans who float here on tires bypass a LOT of those socialist paradises to come to the US. I wonder why that is.

Oh that's right. We're the best and most free country in the world where someone can make something of themselves if they try.



Any suggestions on how I can make my point better?
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2009, 09:58 PM
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Yeah!

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - you have had 234 years to get it right; it is broke.

Social Security was established in 1935 - you have had 74 years to get it right; it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - you have had 71 years to get it right; it is broke.

The "War on Poverty" started in 1964 - you have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor"; it hasn't worked and our entire country is broke.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - you've had 44 years to get it right; they are broke.

Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - you have had 39 years to get it right; it is broke.

Trillions of dollars were spent in the massive political payoffs called TARP, the "Stimulus", the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009... none show any signs of working, although ACORN appears to have found a new b***h: the American taxpayer.

And finally, to set a new record:

"Cash for Clunkers" was established in 2009 and went broke in 2009! It took good dependable cars (that were the best some people could afford) and replaced them with high-priced and less-affordable cars, mostly Japanese. A good percentage of the profits went out of the country. And the American taxpayers take the hit for Congress' generosity in burning three billion more of our dollars on failed experiments.

So with a perfect 100% failure rate and a record that proves that "services" you shove down our throats are failing faster and faster, you want Americans to believe you can be trusted with a government-run health care system?

20% of our entire economy?

With all due respect,




Are you f***ing crazy?


And it's not a matter of paying taxes. It's a matter of waist fraud and abuse of our money. I'm sick of us paying more so they can line their pockets and waist more!



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
Honor is not something given to you by way of job, or title.

Honor is learned, earned, practiced and respected by all decent men and women.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2009, 10:25 PM
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great points.
If only any one else sees the writing on the wall....
even long ago people should have seen it.

They've all but destroyed virtually every reason to keep living here in the US. I'm almost promised no social security, so once you start figuring that in as a normal tax we easily get taxed as much as many other countries.
They have ruined everything good with handouts.
The only thing we have left is some freedom, namely the second admendment that keeps me here. Other countries have piss poor gun rights, otherwise I might move.
Theyve even completely trampled the fourth with the drug war and 'domestic terror' BS.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2009, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazz007 View Post
Yeah!

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - you have had 234 years to get it right; it is broke.

Social Security was established in 1935 - you have had 74 years to get it right; it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - you have had 71 years to get it right; it is broke.

The "War on Poverty" started in 1964 - you have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor"; it hasn't worked and our entire country is broke.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - you've had 44 years to get it right; they are broke.

Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - you have had 39 years to get it right; it is broke.

Trillions of dollars were spent in the massive political payoffs called TARP, the "Stimulus", the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009... none show any signs of working, although ACORN appears to have found a new b***h: the American taxpayer.

And finally, to set a new record:

"Cash for Clunkers" was established in 2009 and went broke in 2009! It took good dependable cars (that were the best some people could afford) and replaced them with high-priced and less-affordable cars, mostly Japanese. A good percentage of the profits went out of the country. And the American taxpayers take the hit for Congress' generosity in burning three billion more of our dollars on failed experiments.

So with a perfect 100% failure rate and a record that proves that "services" you shove down our throats are failing faster and faster, you want Americans to believe you can be trusted with a government-run health care system?

20% of our entire economy?

With all due respect,




Are you f***ing crazy?


And it's not a matter of paying taxes. It's a matter of waist fraud and abuse of our money. I'm sick of us paying more so they can line their pockets and waist more!
Preach!

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2009, 10:53 PM
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waste damit

after it all you used the wrong "waste"


Waist is where your belt is.


all good stuff and true .
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2009, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jyro View Post
after it all you used the wrong "waste"


Waist is where your belt is.


all good stuff and true .
LOL. That's it. Pick on the dyslexic messenger.

Thanks for pointing that out, I'll see if I can remember it. No promises though.



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
Honor is not something given to you by way of job, or title.

Honor is learned, earned, practiced and respected by all decent men and women.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2009, 11:28 PM
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Oh damn, I just had a horrible thought.

I was reading it again, and I realized that all of these programs are the reason we are in the boat we are in now. (not just money)

Think about it. Welfare, (don't go there, I'm not picking on minority's) why would any one try to do better, or educate them selves enough to get out of poverty, if everything is handed to them?

SS. Why would any one save money, and continue go through life on a credit card debt, assuming they will be taken care of later on in life?

War on poverty, again, why would people do for them selves, if some one just hands everything to them?

This is why we went from the land of the free and brave, to the land of gimmie.

Now for the real question. Did these pricks in office know this would happen?
If this was intentional, oh crap, I don't even want to think it. (creating stupid slaves willing to follow)
If this was an experimental mistake, these types of politicians need to never be voted in office again, and these programs need to stop, as in right now!


OK. what did I misspell?



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
Honor is not something given to you by way of job, or title.

Honor is learned, earned, practiced and respected by all decent men and women.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-01-2009, 11:39 PM Thread Starter
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His version of taking it apart:

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - you have had 234 years to get it right; it is broke. That's dumb. It's functioned fine for that long and only recently had revenue problems. The modern world wouldn't exist without this outstanding example of government success.

Social Security was established in 1935 - you have had 74 years to get it right; it is broke. No. It's made the money that won WW2, you ignorant fool. The government made the US the dominant superpower in the 20th Century and at the same time created many of the problems we now face.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - you have had 71 years to get it right; it is broke. You don't know jack about the financial system either. Why post? We haven't had any depressions since then. That isn't really a fail and it is so so so much more complex than that..... why even post when it is plain to anyone who knows that you don't know what you are talking about?

The "War on Poverty" started in 1964 - you have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor"; it hasn't worked and our entire country is broke. What are you on about? That administation ended before you were born. Probably, anyway. I don't know your birthday. Not asking. Your giving nothing here. No one has talked seriously about a "war on poverty" for many many decades except emotionally damaged radio show hosts who can just make up crap and often do

Trillions of dollars were spent in the massive political payoffs called TARP, the "Stimulus", the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009... none show any signs of working, although ACORN appears to have found a new b***h: the American taxpayer. How dim are you? TARO was a Republican program from a Pres that you probably voted for and also I know this has been in the news http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...lies-in-house/ Is your head so far up your own ass that you missed it?
And finally, to set a new record:

"Cash for Clunkers" was established in 2009 and went broke in 2009! It took good dependable cars (that were the best some people could afford) and replaced them with high-priced and less-affordable cars, mostly Japanese. A good percentage of the profits went out of the country. And the American taxpayers take the hit for Congress' generosity in burning three billion more of our dollars on failed experiments. Get some decent source of news. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...rs_cash12.html

So with a perfect 100% That would be your own 100% failure rate to make a point... failure rate and a record Not really, I have often seen you fail to make any respectable point that proves that "services" you I didn't do shit but vote and you need to get over illinformed and pathetic self shove down our throats are failing faster and faster, you want Americans to believe you can be trusted with a government-run health care system? Why even talk to someone who would make points as foolish and not inane as these? It's better just to vote with my own majority that is still holding the Republicans to some degree responsible for the poor state of the nation. Compared to how Republicans left this country almost a year ago, it is doing pretty good. Republicans have good values to share but you will need to learn what they are because what I see here is reasoned poorly and written the same. I'm sure there is some community college somewhere that might pass this sort of crap but that doesn't mean it is good. I can argue your side of this debate much better than you have demonstrated.

[/quoteWho is insane? The people with brain damage or those that argue with them?

The Police have an obligation "to protect and serve" I know that reading is difficult when those cop cars drive by so fast. I understand that this is not executed 100% effectively but the fact is still there that it is their duty despite how powerless anyone might have felt in their life. The idea that all hospitals have to take all people but cops don't have to help people is just plain dumb dumb dumb dumb and ignorant ignorant ignorant ignorant. In the end cops are held to more accountability becaue that is what public sevants can do (be held accountable) unlike buisnesses which are expected and given leeway to screw over anyone they can. Cops actually get caught, unlike hospital administrators.

This country has been a fusion of a free market and socialism for most of the 20th Century which is almost half lifespan of the entire system and has had elements of socialism prior to that in the form of public works. I realize that people who are ignorant don't realize this, but that doesn't change it. I am sincerely sorry that I have not been able to express this amazingly simple fact in words and word-bytes small enough to be understood by the people here. It's really a failure of our entire school system that there is any confusion on this fact at all.

There would be no manifest destiny without the role that government has played and the role hasn't stopped. We still have a train system. We still don't have rats in the sausage generally.The mail has been delivered generally on-time for 230 years all due to private enterprise in the form of federal express which started service in 1775 by Benjamin Franklin and has always out preformed government programs because God only loves private ventures. (Or is that last one bullshit...)

Glen Beck is a emotionally challenged fool with a questionable background in history. Thank heavens he has come along because Rush Limbaugh couldn't ever suck hard enough for the entire country with his pill popping habits and his $10,000 watch wearing stand for the common man. Keep repeating what he says because it will make you real smart. I promise.

The biggest challenge facing our nation is one of education. That's the problem with this thread is that despite whatever credintials are held by the posters here. The US government certainly was not found on anything as redundant as "self independence" and our stab at "limited government" ended with the articles of confederation which were abandoned in favor of a strong federal government by flawed hypocrites that some like to think were magic men who got everything correct because,,, they were magic or some crap like that. Which is baloney.

Frost, you are wrong. What we have, the MRIs, nuclear everything, and many high tech procedures come to us by virtue of the government dime. I'm sorry you were lied to by sincere seeming people on the radio but, for good or ill, our government has made this county what it is, warts and all. Praise it. Condemn it. Whatever. But don't assume that Ma and Pa Kettle made this country with the sweat off their brow because that just isn't correct in any way shape of form. I just don't have the patience to go through this anymore.

I want to thank anyone who has read the posting I have done here. It was very nice to feel free to express some opinions and engage with the sort of people that I usually wouldn't have but I'm past it now. My political opposition isn't anything personnel although some of the temper tantrums (not necessarily in this thread, meaning rather out in the world) generally earn my contempt because they are pathetic.



I am going to do my best to refrain from posting here in the future.


My response:

Now you're talking about things I know about. I have a degree in criminal justice and to back up my claim about the police don't have to take care of you, maybe you should consult case law.

Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981). Two women were upstairs in a townhouse when they heard their roommate, a third woman, being attacked downstairs by intruders. They phoned the police several times and were assured that officers were on the way. After about 30 minutes, when their roommate’s screams had stopped, they went downstairs they saw that the police never came, but the intruders were still there. “For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of their attackers.” The three women sued the District of Columbia for failing to protect them, but D.C.’s highest court exonerated the District and its police, saying that it is a “fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen.” (please note that is a QUOTE.)

DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services (109 S.Ct. 998, 1989). The Court in DeShaney concluded that Constitutional duties of care and protection only exist as to certain individuals, such as incarcerated prisoners, involuntarily committed mental patients and others restrained against their will and therefore unable to protect themselves. “The affirmative duty to protect arises not from the State’s knowledge of the individual’s predicament or from its expressions of intent to help him, but from the limitation which it has imposed on his freedom to act on his own behalf.”

Balistreri v. Pacifica Police Department. (901 F.2d 696 9th Cir. 1990) Ms. Balistreri, beaten and harassed by her estranged husband, alleged a “special relationship” existed between her and the Pacifica Police Department, to wit, they were duty-bound to protect her because there was a restraining order against her husband. The Court of Appeals, however, concluded that DeShaney limited the circumstances that would give rise to a “special relationship” to instances of custody. Because no such custody existed in Balistreri, the Pacifica Police had no duty to protect her, so when they failed to do so and she was injured they were not liable.

Hartzler v. City of San Jose, 46 Cal. App. 3d 6 (1st Dist. 1975). The court held that the San Jose police were not liable for ignoring Mrs. Brunell’s calls for help after her husband told her he was coming over to kill her. They said to call back when he got there. Before she could, he stabbed her to death.

Riss v. New York, 240 N.E.2d 860 (N.Y. 1968).
Linda Riss obeyed the law, yet the law prevented her from arming herself in self-defense.]

Freeman v. Ferguson a police chief directed his officers not to enforce a restraining order againsta woman’s estranged husband because the man was a friend of the chief’s. Theman subsequently killed the woman and her daughter.

Davidson v. City of Westminster (1982) 32 Cal.3d 197, 185 Cal.Rptr. 252: A husband and wife who were assaulted in a laundromat while the assailant was under surveillance by officers, brought legal action against the city and the officers for intentional and negligent infliction of emotional distress and for negligent investigation, failure to protect and failure to warn. The Supreme Court held that: (1) the mere fact that the officers had previously recognized the assailant from a distance as a potential assailant because of his resemblance to a person suspected of perpetrating a prior assault did not establish a “special relationship” between officers and assailant under which a duty would be imposed on officers to control assailant’s conduct; (2) factors consisting of officer’s prior recognition of assailant as likely perpetrator of previous assault and officer’s surveillance of assailant in laundromat in which victim was present did not give rise to special relationship between officers and victim so as to impose duty on officers to protect victim from assailant; and (3) victim could not maintain cause of action for intentional or reckless infliction of emotional distress, in view of fact that it was not alleged that officers failed to act for the purpose of causing emotional injury, and that in the absence of such an intent to injure, officer’s inaction was not extreme or outrageous conduct.


Westbrooks v. State (1985) 173 Cal.App.3d 1203, 219 Cal.Rtr. 674 : The widow and sons of a motorist who drove into the void where a collapsed bridge had been, brought action against the State, county, and county deputy sheriff. The California Department of Transportation (Cal Trans) was aware that a violent storm with heavy rains had caused a bridge on State route 118 to collapse. A county deputy sheriff had observed the beginning of the collapse, reported it and requested assistance from Cal Trans. A jury award of $1,300,000 was reversed in part by the Court of Appeal which held: (1) the county deputy sheriff had no duty to warn drivers that the state highway bridge had collapsed during the storm, and his efforts to warn drivers did not in any way increase the risk of harm to users of the highway, and therefore the county was not liable to motorist’s wife and children; and (2) the judgment was upheld against the state because the Cal Trans was notified at 1:52 a.m. and at 2:35 a.m., but no Cal Trans personnel nor CHP officer appeared at the scene until 5:45 a.m., and that such delay was unreasonable.

Antique Arts Corp. v. City of Torrence (1974) 39 Cal.App.3d 588, 114 Cal.Rptr. 332: “The statutory scheme makes it clear that failure to provide adequate police protection will not result in governmental liability, nor will a public entity be liable for failure to arrest a person who is violating the law. The statutory scheme shows legislative intent to immunize the police function from tort liability from the inception of its exercise to the point of arrest, regardless of whether the action be labeled ‘discretionary’ or ‘ministerial.’”


California’s Government Code, Sections 821, 845, and 846 states, in part: “Neither a public entity or a public employee [may be sued] for failure to provide adequate police protection or service, failure to prevent the commission of crimes and failure to apprehend criminals.”

See also:
Bower v. DeVito (1982) 686 F.2d 616 (No federal constitutional requirements that police provide protection.)
Calgorides v. Mobile (1985) 475 So.2d 560
Morgan v. District of Columbia (1983) 469 A.2d 1306
Sapp v. Tallahassee (1977) 348 So.2d 363, cert.denied 354 So.2d 985
Keane v. Chicago (1968) 98 Ill.App.2d 460, 240 N.E.2d 321
Simpson’s Food Fair v. Evansville 272 N.E. 2d 871
Wuetrich v. Delia (1978) 155 N.J.Super. 324, 382 A.2d 929
Chapman v. Philadelphia (1981) 290 Pa.Super. 324, 382 A.2d 753
Morris v. Musser, (1984) 84 Pa.Cmwth. 170, 478 A.2d 937
Pinder v. Johnson, 33 F.3d 368 (4th Cir.1994)
Champman v. City of Philadelphia
Thurman v. City of Torrington
McKee v. City of Rockwall Texas
Ne Casek v. City of Los Angeles, (1965) 233 Cal.App.2d 131, 43 Cal.Rptr. 294
Susman v. City of Los Angeles, et al (1969) 269 Cal.App.2d 803, 75 Cal.Rptr. 240
Zinermon v. Burch (110 S.Ct. 975, 984 1990)
Stone v. State, (1980) 106 Cal.App. 3d 924, 165 Cal.Rep. 339.
Jamison v. Chicago, (1977) 48 ILL.App.3d 567.
Silver v. Minneapolis, (1969) 170 N.W.2d 206.
Weiner v. Metropolitan Authority, and Shernov v. New York Transit Authority, (1982) 55 N.Y. 2d 175, 948 N.Y.S. 141
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2009, 07:13 AM
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it's just a matter of opinion

He's a Barney Frank buddy, He will counter with a editorial that says the opposite of what you say nomatter what point you bring up. I don't think he won at all cept about the police and I agree, individuals are incharge of their on protection.

Acorn has always been funded with mainly tax money.

The reason the postoffice has no competition, they don't have to turn a profit so who can compete.

It took 20 years to payoff the debt for ww2, social security had nothing to do with winning the war.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2009, 10:27 AM
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how do you not pay road tax? all the fuel I buy at the pumps is taxed
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2009, 10:41 AM
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All you have to do is point out facts to liberals and they clam up real quick. Just keep it simple.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2009, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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I've hammered the facts repeatedly and all he does is insult and distract.

I pay gas tax but that's it. There ARE some interesting points to service.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forever_frost View Post
I've hammered the facts repeatedly and all he does is insult and distract.

I pay gas tax but that's it. There ARE some interesting points to service.
What do you expect, you are arguing with liberal democrats. That's like not expecting a snake to slither or a fish to swim.

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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2009, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
"Cash for Clunkers" was established in 2009 and went broke in 2009! It took good dependable cars (that were the best some people could afford) and replaced them with high-priced and less-affordable cars, mostly Japanese. A good percentage of the profits went out of the country. And the American taxpayers take the hit for Congress' generosity in burning three billion more of our dollars on failed experiments. Get some decent source of news. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...rs_cash12.html
Yeah...some decent sort of news...

http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/28/auto...ysis/index.htm

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2009, 01:13 PM
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You're asking for aggravation getting these blind libs to acknowledge they're wrong on anything.


Quote:
Originally Posted by forever_frost View Post
His version of taking it apart:

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - you have had 234 years to get it right; it is broke. That's dumb. It's functioned fine for that long and only recently had revenue problems. The modern world wouldn't exist without this outstanding example of government success.


I contend that FedEx and UPS and the other express mail services would have never been able to come about had the USPS been able to innovate and keep up with the times. To say that it functions fine is rediculous. I get mail addressed to my neighbors several times a week. I've had mail opened and I've had mail that just never shows up. Do you go to the Post Office often? Wonderful example of people who don't really seem to give a shit about you or their job. I guess if you lower your standards this truly is an "outstanding example of government success."

Social Security was established in 1935 - you have had 74 years to get it right; it is broke. No. It's made the money that won WW2, you ignorant fool. The government made the US the dominant superpower in the 20th Century and at the same time created many of the problems we now face.

I'm confused why he brings up WW2 here when he criticized you for bringing up "the War on Poverty" from 1964. Also, is he saying social security (even though he wrote "government") is the reason we became a superpower AND it's the cause of many of our problems? He totally dodged explaining how social security is not broken which seems to be the objective in his reply.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - you have had 71 years to get it right; it is broke. You don't know jack about the financial system either. Why post? We haven't had any depressions since then. That isn't really a fail and it is so so so much more complex than that..... why even post when it is plain to anyone who knows that you don't know what you are talking about?

Again, let's just stick to the issue - in this case Fannie Mae. Incompetence with Fannie and Freddie has been well documented.

Fannie under Raines (CEO 1999 - 2004) overvalued profits by 9 Billion dollars by using shady accounting policies. They were manipulating the balance sheet to get better bonuses for themselves. The CEO from 1991 - 1998 James Johnson did the same thing - fraudulent accounting practices resulting in 2 million in bonuses paid out to him personally in 1998.

That's almost 20 years of fraud from Executives - and we're not even addressing Fannie/Freddie's role in the housing crash.


The "War on Poverty" started in 1964 - you have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor"; it hasn't worked and our entire country is broke. What are you on about? That administation ended before you were born. Probably, anyway. I don't know your birthday. Not asking. Your giving nothing here. No one has talked seriously about a "war on poverty" for many many decades except emotionally damaged radio show hosts who can just make up crap and often do

That's just incorrect - What does "re-distribution of wealth" really mean? So it wasn't said verbatim, we all know what that means.

Trillions of dollars were spent in the massive political payoffs called TARP, the "Stimulus", the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009... none show any signs of working, although ACORN appears to have found a new b***h: the American taxpayer. How dim are you? TARO was a Republican program from a Pres that you probably voted for and also I know this has been in the news http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...lies-in-house/ Is your head so far up your own ass that you missed it?
And finally, to set a new record:

Ask him point blank - do you support the bailouts or not? This is great right here - Bush did indeed start the Tarp and I oppossed it then and I oppossed its continuation under Obama. As Jim Rome says - you gotta whack your own to have credibilty. What you will notice is Libs would rather kill themselves than show cracks in the party line. Talk about people who believe whatever bullshit you feed them..... Just dress it up in liberal ideology and I'm sure they could be persuaded to eat babies


"Cash for Clunkers" was established in 2009 and went broke in 2009! It took good dependable cars (that were the best some people could afford) and replaced them with high-priced and less-affordable cars, mostly Japanese. A good percentage of the profits went out of the country. And the American taxpayers take the hit for Congress' generosity in burning three billion more of our dollars on failed experiments. Get some decent source of news. http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...rs_cash12.html

Great - his source is an article from 2 months ago. I don't totally think cash for Clunkers was a failure for running out of money - I think it was supposed to if things went well, but it did end up costing the taxpayers 24K per vehilce.

So with a perfect 100% That would be your own 100% failure rate to make a point... failure rate and a record Not really, I have often seen you fail to make any respectable point that proves that "services" you I didn't do shit but vote and you need to get over illinformed and pathetic self shove down our throats are failing faster and faster, you want Americans to believe you can be trusted with a government-run health care system? Why even talk to someone who would make points as foolish and not inane as these? It's better just to vote with my own majority that is still holding the Republicans to some degree responsible for the poor state of the nation. Compared to how Republicans left this country almost a year ago, it is doing pretty good. Republicans have good values to share but you will need to learn what they are because what I see here is reasoned poorly and written the same. I'm sure there is some community college somewhere that might pass this sort of crap but that doesn't mean it is good. I can argue your side of this debate much better than you have demonstrated.

[/quoteWho is insane? The people with brain damage or those that argue with them?
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2009, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by VETTKLR View Post
And the White House Response: Let's go after those Lying Bastards!!!! I swear, this is the most juvenile administration I've ever seen.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/29/news...ion=2009102917


The Obama administration on Thursday lashed out at a prominent critic of its Cash for Clunkers program, arguing that the popular trade-in initiative helped give the auto industry and the economy a much needed boost in the past few months.

In a blog post on whitehouse.gov, the administration argued that a report on Clunkers by automotive Web site Edmunds.com "doesn't withstand even basic scrutiny" and is based on "implausible assumptions."

On Wednesday, Edmunds.com released a study that argued Cash for Clunkers did not have a great impact on the auto industry. The report said that 690,000 new vehicles were sold under the program last summer, but that only 125,000 of them would not have been sold without the Clunkers rebates.

As a result, the report said, the administration's economic claims for the program "have been rendered quite weak."

The Clunkers program gave car buyers rebates of up to $4,500 if they traded in less fuel-efficient vehicles for new vehicles that met certain fuel economy requirements. A total of $3 billion was allotted for those rebates.

The Edmunds report also said that taxpayers shelled out an average of $24,000 per car sold as a result of the program.

Edmunds.com says Cash for Clunkers is a clunker
But the White House fired back, saying Thursday's Commerce Department report that showed auto sales contributed 1.7 percentage points to the economy's 3.5% growth rate in the third quarter is proof that Cash for Clunkers had a meaningful impact on both auto sales and the broad economy.

"Edmunds.com has released a faulty analysis," the blog post said. "This is the latest of several critical analyses of the Cash for Clunkers program from Edmunds.com, which appear designed to grab headlines and get coverage on cable TV."

The administration argued that Edmunds' conclusions were incorrect because the study assumes that the market for cars that didn't qualify for Clunkers was unaffected by the program.

"In other words, all the other cars were being sold on Mars," said the administration.

0:00 /3:06Better days ahead for autos
The administration's blog post argued that Clunkers helped to lower auto prices on the rest of the vehicle market as well, a fact the administration said Edmunds ignored. The White House also said that people were drawn into dealerships because of the program and ended up purchasing cars even if their trade-in didn't qualify for the program.

Cash for Clunkers will have a long-term impact on the overall economy, since automakers increased their production through the end of the year to meet demand created by the program, the administration said.

Finally, the administration said the Edmunds' report flies in the face of independent analyses, and the administration's Council of Economic Advisers. The blog urged readers to "put on your space suit and compare the two approaches yourself."

Edmunds stands by its report: In response, Edmunds.com said Thursday that its figures were correct, and that the growth in GDP had more to do with naturally recovering auto sales and not with incentive programs.

The company also said that there was no hard evidence of consumers buying cars after discovering they didn't qualify for the rebate.

"It does, after all, seem a bit odd that masses of consumers would elect to buy a vehicle because of a program for which they don't qualify -- doubly so when you add in the fact that prices shot up during Cash for Clunkers, creating a disincentive to buy," Edmunds said in a statement.

In the end, Edmunds said the report actually shows that there is some good news about the auto industry -- the recovering economy is helping boost auto sales even without the help of Clunkers.

"With all respect to the White House, Edmunds.com thinks that instead of shooting the messenger, government officials should take heart from the core message of the analysis: the fundamentals of the auto marketplace are improving faster than the current sales numbers suggest."
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 11-02-2009, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dedicated Political Discussion Thread
« Reply #757 on: Today at 12:25:15 PM »
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Quote from: Frost on October 30, 2009, 0501 PM
It is the document that founded this country and is just as valid today as it ever has been. If it needs to be changed, those "old white British born businessmen from 230 years ago" built in ways for it to be changed, which it has been repeatedly as time goes. It's foundation of limited government and individual freedom is a bedrock that has made our country great.

Quote from: Frost on November 01, 2009, 10:54:21 PM
Actually Shawn, I could just sit back and watch Rome burn. I don't pay taxes. Property, school, income tax, medicare and medicaid AND my tags are 3 bucks a year which means I don't pay road taxes. I could be perfectly happy watching everyone's taxes skyrocket and my parents hand more and more of their retirement to the government, but I can't. Why? Because I was taught to do the right thing and to honor our country and the Constitution. Which is exactly what I'm doing.


yea mean honor the parts you like.


Quote from: WunjoBerkana on November 01, 2009, 02:41:47 PM
You're talking about going from 6 day delivery to 5 day delivery. HORRORS!

What time horizon do you see the USPS stopping delivery entirely? Months? Years? Let me know, I'm curious just how off your rocker you are.

2 months ago i sent a package from arizona to connecticut at their basic price on friday, it got there monday, thats three buisness days. seems to be working fine for me, and from arizona to connecticut too.



Quote from: Frost on November 01, 2009, 11:50:52 PM
The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - you have had 234 years to get it right; it is broke.

seems to be working fine to me, i still get mail from cox for some douche that use to live at our adress because they (cox) wont take his name off our address. just pointing out some more stupidity here, and also to add, i just played SOCOM with an all canadian clan and they all said they same exact thing, their health care rocks, just bad wait times. how to solve the wait times? build more hospitals = less wait + more jobs, OH NOS! they actualy thought it was funny that america is NOW fixing that. and when i play with some brits ill ask them too.



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Re: Dedicated Political Discussion Thread
« Reply #761 on: Today at 12:57:25 PM »
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Its a freaking travesty....The freedom of speech is a great thing however in the end it seems that on these threads and in real life the crazies on either side of a debate run off the intelligent people in the middle who want to have a real debate. It seems that the loud mouthed righteous can post 8 million character responses and scream and throw BS examples in your face on a television set and eventually their ideas must be right because everyone with a brain had grown tired of the fucking game and chose not to argue.......RIP NYARL and RIP to this thread.
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