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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 10:22 AM Thread Starter
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Onstar - paranoia and public use

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/20/o...h-speed-chase/


I remember asking a dealer about this once and was told I was over reacting and paranoid, which always lead to the dumb question of 'if you aren't doing anything wrong..'

So where does this go? Where is the consumer protection? Can this be challenged on civil rights violations? When will this be abused by police now that they know onstar will do what they need? How do I disable it in my Tahoe?

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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 10:26 AM
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Disconnect the antenna?
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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 10:30 AM
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That's pretty crazy. Onstar FTL.

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 10:30 AM
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Quick, we should get a bill through congress to mandate that everyone has to buy Onstar for their cars at their own expense, otherwise you get fined every year on your income taxes!

I mean, it is for the public good and all. Won't someone please think of the children!!!
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 10:32 AM
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unplug it from the pussy magnet.
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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 10:41 AM
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Quick, we should get a bill through congress to mandate that everyone has to buy Onstar for their cars at their own expense, otherwise you get fined every year on your income taxes!

I mean, it is for the public good and all. Won't someone please think of the children!!!
You should work for this administration and get a nobel prize.

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Sean88gt View Post
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/20/o...h-speed-chase/


I remember asking a dealer about this once and was told I was over reacting and paranoid, which always lead to the dumb question of 'if you aren't doing anything wrong..'

So where does this go? Where is the consumer protection? Can this be challenged on civil rights violations? When will this be abused by police now that they know onstar will do what they need? How do I disable it in my Tahoe?
there is a "box" that has all of the controllers and everything for "onstar"...just locate it and remove it. it just unplugs and a few screws remove it. i'm not cerain on where it's located on tahoes, but i believe that it was under the passenger seat on my vette.
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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there is a "box" that has all of the controllers and everything for "onstar"...just locate it and remove it. it just unplugs and a few screws remove it. i'm not cerain on where it's located on tahoes, but i believe that it was under the passenger seat on my vette.
I thought it was programmed into the VCIM?

Anyone find the irony in a company associated with Obama Motors tracking citizens?

Al, shut it, they'll make it law!

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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 11:58 AM
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How funny. I saw a commercial on the whole 'vehicle disabling' a day or two ago, and was going to make a thread about it.



My Yukon came equipped with Onstar, but it's a 2001 and I don't even know if it's still activated.
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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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unplug it from the pussy magnet.
Good call!

I'm sure my wife would love getting 3 kids into a sports car..

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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 12:16 PM
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What's the problem here? OnStar is a purchased product, not a required one. Every consumer that uses OnStar makes a choice to do so. I agree that it gives them the ability to monitor/invade privacy, etc., but it's a choice the user makes. I personally wouldn't have it on my vehicle, but that's my choice.

You also can't possibly be complaining/defending the perp who stole the car in the story either can you?

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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 01:26 PM
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I can. I'd like to see the Constitutionality of ONSTAR shutting anything down. I'm also waiting for this to become a federal law to "Help law enforcement professionals fight against crime."
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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 01:58 PM
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Check this out http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-5109435.html

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 02:12 PM
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If the vehicle is equipted with it, does it really matter if you subscribe to it or not? All Onstar has to do is activate it and they can do anything they wish with your vehicle, right?
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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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What's the problem here? OnStar is a purchased product, not a required one. Every consumer that uses OnStar makes a choice to do so. I agree that it gives them the ability to monitor/invade privacy, etc., but it's a choice the user makes. I personally wouldn't have it on my vehicle, but that's my choice.

You also can't possibly be complaining/defending the perp who stole the car in the story either can you?
And there it is! The 'if you're not breaking the law, or saying anything non-obama approved, what do you have to worry about?'

Not defending the criminal, but saying when does a vehicle get shut off because someone is late on a payment, or because they have an unpaid parking ticket, or because of their political party, or any other reason?

Yes, it is a paid service, which apparently they can control at any point if they desire or are ordered to.

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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 02:34 PM
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If the vehicle is equipted with it, does it really matter if you subscribe to it or not? All Onstar has to do is activate it and they can do anything they wish with your vehicle, right?
Yep... they can access your vehicle whether or not you are a subscriber.
All they need is the VIN.

And to the person saying you can just "Unplug It".. it depends on the model

If you have a late model with GMLAN wiring.. unplugging this module will disable every module downstream of the VCIM in the data line... as well as set comm codes in ALL the modules in the vehicle.

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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 02:37 PM
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I can. I'd like to see the Constitutionality of ONSTAR shutting anything down. I'm also waiting for this to become a federal law to "Help law enforcement professionals fight against crime."
I don't see it as any different than a security system. Granted there has to be some limitations -- you don't want it shut down while going 70 on the freeway as that's a hazard to everyone driving. It would all be based on the vehicle owner choosing to pay for the service and authorizing the shutdown though in accordance with traffic safety IMO.

As for a federal law, yeah, I can see someone trying to push that through. I don't see it passing at all though. I have no problem with OnStar or comparable services as long as they are a consumer option. They have no right to monitor conversations in the vehicle though. That's a different issue entirely IMO.

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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 03:11 PM
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Yep... they can access your vehicle whether or not you are a subscriber.
All they need is the VIN.

And to the person saying you can just "Unplug It".. it depends on the model

If you have a late model with GMLAN wiring.. unplugging this module will disable every module downstream of the VCIM in the data line... as well as set comm codes in ALL the modules in the vehicle.
Thats what I figured. A vin is as easy to get as a simple license plate run from law enforcement. Interesting times we are living in for sure.
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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 03:19 PM
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There was a case a couple of years back where the poilce didnt actually disable the vehicle.... but they followed the unit via GPS and monitored the convesations in the truck.

They made a really big drug bust if I remember correctly.

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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 03:47 PM
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It's a sticky situation. I feel you should as a private company (or, what was a private company) you should answer to your customer.


If your customer's call is stolen, let him report it and have it disabled or tracked.

If your customer wants to run from the police and put all 300hp of his V8 option he paid you for to the test, that's his business.

Onstar is a great benefit for it's customers. It's paid for by it's customers. It is NOT paid for by law enforcement, so I see no realistic reason they should be able to manipulate it.
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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 03:50 PM
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There was a case a couple of years back where the police didn't actually disable the vehicle.... but they followed the unit via GPS and monitored the conversations in the truck.

They made a really big drug bust if I remember correctly.
Most people don't know that a cell phone can be used as a microphone. Your phone doesn't even have to be turned on just the battery in it, and the feds can remotely activate your speaker phone and listen to what conversations are going on around your phone. There is no privacy anymore.

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.

Last edited by MR TINFOIL HAT; 10-22-2009 at 03:56 PM.
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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 05:36 PM
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Onstar is the main reason and impetus for my idea about putting a disabling ability in every computer in every car from now on. The only people who can "disable" the vehicle is LE and only after the vehicle is entered as stolen, involved in a felony, or in a pursuit. The LE agency would have to contact the manufacturer who would give the specific disable code for that car and the transmission would go to neutral so that all power and safety equipment would still work.


The technology is there and this is coming, mark my words.

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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 05:38 PM
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Most people don't know that a cell phone can be used as a microphone. Your phone doesn't even have to be turned on just the battery in it, and the feds can remotely activate your speaker phone and listen to what conversations are going on around your phone. There is no privacy anymore.
Do you have proof that this capability exists?

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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 05:45 PM
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Do you have proof that this capability exists?


From what I've read it's been around for quite a while even though the articles below are from 06.
Here you go this is the best one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G1fNjK9SXg

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive..._eavesd_1.html

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.

Last edited by MR TINFOIL HAT; 10-22-2009 at 05:55 PM.
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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 05:52 PM
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Exactly. With ONSTAR, your bluetooth is tied in, which is why you can do handsfree talking to them. How hard would it be to activate Onstar and listen in on what is going on?

Do you have your papers comrade?
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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 06:01 PM
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Why can't we have GPS systems in cars, that monitor the traffic lights and speed limtis? If you break the law by speeding or running a red light, a camera in the dash takes your picture and prints out a ticket out of the dash.
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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 06:04 PM
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Why can't we have GPS systems in cars, that monitor the traffic lights and speed limtis? If you break the law by speeding or running a red light, a camera in the dash takes your picture and prints out a ticket out of the dash.
That might be in the healthcare bill somewhere!

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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Why can't we have GPS systems in cars, that monitor the traffic lights and speed limtis? If you break the law by speeding or running a red light, a camera in the dash takes your picture and prints out a ticket out of the dash.
I'm sure it will be tied in. Look at the new SHO, they have 'my key' that allows volume, speed, etc control.

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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-23-2009, 04:19 AM
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Even if they try to enforce it, I can think of several ways off hand to disengage it. And still be able to drive the vehicle. So they can try, but they'll fail. As they so often fail. And of course, waste a lot of tax dollars doing so.
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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-23-2009, 04:52 PM
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From what I've read it's been around for quite a while even though the articles below are from 06.
Here you go this is the best one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G1fNjK9SXg

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029_3-6140191.html
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive..._eavesd_1.html
I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this, but I am.

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post #31 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-23-2009, 05:51 PM
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Even if they try to enforce it, I can think of several ways off hand to disengage it. And still be able to drive the vehicle. So they can try, but they'll fail. As they so often fail. And of course, waste a lot of tax dollars doing so.
Unless they make it an integrated system
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post #32 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-23-2009, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean88gt View Post
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/20/o...h-speed-chase/


I remember asking a dealer about this once and was told I was over reacting and paranoid, which always lead to the dumb question of 'if you aren't doing anything wrong..'

So where does this go? Where is the consumer protection? Can this be challenged on civil rights violations? When will this be abused by police now that they know onstar will do what they need? How do I disable it in my Tahoe?
Pull the fuse

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post #33 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-23-2009, 07:08 PM
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I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this, but I am.
Definitely makes you wonder what kind of other stuff that we don't know about that they have?

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #34 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-23-2009, 10:02 PM
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Definitely makes you wonder what kind of other stuff that we don't know about that they have?
While the most the Feds could get from my phone is my very poor singing while I am driving by myself or my wife, daughter and I joking around, I want this ability to be highly controlled and used only in limited instances.

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post #35 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-23-2009, 10:19 PM
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umm.. so did ya'll see this part?

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Ruiz then found a police officer who called OnStar and had the vehicle tracked, but only after Ruiz gave his permission to do so.
The Government/Cop couldn't do dick without the owners explicit permission.

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post #36 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-23-2009, 10:37 PM
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However, they could. That's just the point.

And if became mandatory, it'd be an integrated system that would be impossible to disconnect AND drive the car. Remember, at one point, medicare and medicaid were voluntary systems.
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post #37 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-24-2009, 01:15 AM
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Unless they make it an integrated system
Yeah, they could do that. It might make it difficult to get rid of, but not impossible. If it came down to it, a person could reflash the computer, or change the programming a little to lie to it.
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post #38 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-24-2009, 01:24 AM
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i dont see the problem for this since it was a stolen car and the owner OK'd it.

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post #39 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-24-2009, 08:13 AM
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The owner okay'ed it, I am alright with that. However I do agree that we are standing at the top of a very steep and slippery slope with this.
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post #40 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-25-2009, 07:58 AM
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I can think of several ways off hand to disengage it.
Its not impossible to disable.... just not as easy as "unplugging it"

You just have to remove the module and then reconnect the low and high speed LAN comm lines so the modules that were downstream of the VCIM can communicate with the ones that were ahead of it.

A few terminals... a couple of peices of wire and a schematic and you are in..

I cant think of any way they could make it impossible to disable.... but then I am not an engineer.

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post #41 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-25-2009, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCNU View Post
Its not impossible to disable.... just not as easy as "unplugging it"

You just have to remove the module and then reconnect the low and high speed LAN comm lines so the modules that were downstream of the VCIM can communicate with the ones that were ahead of it.

A few terminals... a couple of peices of wire and a schematic and you are in..

I cant think of any way they could make it impossible to disable.... but then I am not an engineer.
Well I am one of those computer geek types, and I can tell you that if they can do it, someone can un-do it. At least, if they try to do it with the vehicle's computer, or the whatever little computer the onstar system may have. I am not really familiar with the onstar system. It would rely on some type of software or firmware to tell it what to do, and that can be changed to tell it to do something else instead. Would it be a pain in the ass? Sure. But it's still far from impossible. This is what leads me to believe they won't really try to push it. Be kind of a waste of time. Course you never know, I guess. The gov't often does things that are viewed as completely stupid and a waste of time and money.
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post #42 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-26-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCNU View Post
Its not impossible to disable.... just not as easy as "unplugging it"

You just have to remove the module and then reconnect the low and high speed LAN comm lines so the modules that were downstream of the VCIM can communicate with the ones that were ahead of it.

A few terminals... a couple of peices of wire and a schematic and you are in..

I cant think of any way they could make it impossible to disable.... but then I am not an engineer.
i know that it's a fairly simple approach in a 2003 tahoe as i know someone that removed it, but i don't know about the newer vehicles.

i did a quick search and found this "how to" article on it:
http://www.ehow.com/how_5330281_onstar-out-car.html#

when i had my '08 z06, i remember people talking about how to take it out of the new vettes, but i don't remember the procedure. it seems like it wasn't anything difficult, though.
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post #43 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-26-2009, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MR TINFOIL HAT View Post
Most people don't know that a cell phone can be used as a microphone. Your phone doesn't even have to be turned on just the battery in it, and the feds can remotely activate your speaker phone and listen to what conversations are going on around your phone. There is no privacy anymore.
I don't agree with a lot of this guy's jibber-jabber, but he is correct on this. All cell phone carriers are at the mercy of "Big Brother" when it comes to crap like this.
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post #44 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-26-2009, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by STANGGT40 View Post
i know that it's a fairly simple approach in a 2003 tahoe as i know someone that removed it, but i don't know about the newer vehicles.

.
The old ones were easy.. hell... you could just pull the fuse.

The new wiring architecture of GMLAN is a little different in that all the high and low speed lines pass though one module to the next.. sort of like a series circuit if you will. Simply disabling one module would be like opening the comm circuit.

It would only be a matter of making sure those comm lines bypasses the VCIM completely.

I guess if someone was a programmer, they could reprogram the module... I just dont have that capability.


Like I said.. I am just a tech, but I didnt want you guys to all go yank the VCIM out of your onstar equipped late model and then wonder why the ABS or someother module downline wasnt communicating anymore.

S/C Suzuki
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post #45 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-26-2009, 01:32 PM
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Listen to all you libaral commies complaning about civil rights. You would think that with all the I hate Obama crap posted you were conservatives but I guess I was wrong. You poeple had no problems with any of the civil rights issues (no warrent home invations by feds and police, trying to get everyone on to a national I.D. system, collecting all of your electronic comunications.), but have a car that is capable of being shut off by the police and your panties go into a bunch. It is conservatives who normally come up with national (protect yourself from yourself) programs of this sort.
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post #46 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-26-2009, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MrHappy View Post
Listen to all you libaral commies complaning about civil rights. You would think that with all the I hate Obama crap posted you were conservatives but I guess I was wrong. You poeple had no problems with any of the civil rights issues (no warrent home invations by feds and police, trying to get everyone on to a national I.D. system, collecting all of your electronic comunications.), but have a car that is capable of being shut off by the police and your panties go into a bunch. It is conservatives who normally come up with national (protect yourself from yourself) programs of this sort.
Left or Right doesn't matter. The left right is the carrot the government holds out in front of us, that's going to lead us directly off a cliff as long as we keep chasing it. I said it earlier, and I'll say it again. There is no privacy anymore!

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
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post #47 of 47 (permalink) Old 10-27-2009, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR TINFOIL HAT View Post
Most people don't know that a cell phone can be used as a microphone. Your phone doesn't even have to be turned on just the battery in it, and the feds can remotely activate your speaker phone and listen to what conversations are going on around your phone. There is no privacy anymore.
Sounds like a simple fix, to me. But thanks for sharing the info. I'll be sure to pass it along.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MR TINFOIL HAT View Post
Left or Right doesn't matter. The left right is the carrot the government holds out in front of us, that's going to lead us directly off a cliff as long as we keep chasing it. I said it earlier, and I'll say it again. There is no privacy anymore!
I do agree with this a little. I think the left and the right... could be starting to become a bit of an illusion. It's easy to say you are one thing, and be another, after all. And then say you'll do one thing, then take a bribe (aka a campaign contribution) and do another. I wonder why we don't outlaw campaign contributions? Then it would be real hard for them to take the bribes. After all, you have to answer where that extra 1.2 million bucks that magically appeared in your bank account came from. You don't though, if it's a "campaign contribution". We should also outlaw ANY political office of ANY kind, high or low, from running more than two terms. That is, no one should ever be allowed to hold any politcal office for more than two terms of that office. And the length of the terms can not be changed under any circumstance. You can run for another different office after that, (for two terms) but you can never go back to your old job.
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