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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
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Please explain this to me

because I cannot possibly comprehend what is wrong with this clause regardless of how you slice it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/1..._n_321985.html

Before you flame me for the link, I don't read The Huffington Post nor do I watch The Daily Show often, but they've put it into words and video better than I can.


Jeff Sessions had the balls to call it a "political attack on Haliburton."

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 09:11 AM
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What was in the rest of the bill?

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 09:40 AM
Lifer
 
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it was not a bill, it was just an amendment to the 2010 Defense Appropriations bill.

this is the entire amendment:
To prohibit the use of funds for any Federal contract with Halliburton Company, KBR, Inc., any of their subsidiaries or affiliates, or any other contracting party if such contractor or a subcontractor at any tier under such contract requires that employees or independent contractors sign mandatory arbitration clauses regarding certain claims.

link tho the amendment:
http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ro...n=1&vote=00308

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 12:50 PM
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Do you understand the cost (savings) associated in arbitration vs. litigation? The number of cases litigated is falling drastically and the language in the article stating that arbitration favors corporations is false.
I don't see anything that says the vote was to stop rape, merely to allow alternative means of resolution (ligation in this case).

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 04:15 PM
Lifer
 
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almost every company makes you sign a mandatory arbitration agreement, they exist to protect the company from being sued by its employees. it pretty much means you are giving up all your legal rights with regards to the company.

in the case of this amendment a female employee was raped, and then imprisoned by her employer, and then could not sue. its a very communist practice, where the workers have no rights, thus i agree that those companies should not be awarded tax payer money.

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonball996 View Post
almost every company makes you sign a mandatory arbitration agreement, they exist to protect the company from being sued by its employees. it pretty much means you are giving up all your legal rights with regards to the company.

in the case of this amendment a female employee was raped, and then imprisoned by her employer, and then could not sue. its a very communist practice, where the workers have no rights, thus i agree that those companies should not be awarded tax payer money.
Which shows how little you know on the subject. Arbitration is a form of ADR (alternative dispute resolution). It has nothing to do with signing your rights over. The arbitrator is an independent entity that exists to bring two parties to a decision, generally one hell of a lot cheaper and faster than litigation will.
The arbitrator has set rules, procedures and guidelines to follow, including ethical guidelines.

Look at credit card company statements, they use arbitration a lot more. A large amount of cases that are considered non-collective bargaining (non-union) are going before arbitrators, not just KBR or other contractors.


In the case of this employee, she can file for arbitration, go through the process, get an attorney if she wants to and proceed. Chances are, the arbitrator (who is not employed by the company) rules in her favor.

I'm not disagreeing that what happened to her is bullshit, merely point out your lack of knowledge on arbitration

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 05:44 PM
Lifer
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean88gt View Post
Which shows how little you know on the subject. Arbitration is a form of ADR (alternative dispute resolution). It has nothing to do with signing your rights over. The arbitrator is an independent entity that exists to bring two parties to a decision, generally one hell of a lot cheaper and faster than litigation will.
The arbitrator has set rules, procedures and guidelines to follow, including ethical guidelines.

Look at credit card company statements, they use arbitration a lot more. A large amount of cases that are considered non-collective bargaining (non-union) are going before arbitrators, not just KBR or other contractors.


In the case of this employee, she can file for arbitration, go through the process, get an attorney if she wants to and proceed. Chances are, the arbitrator (who is not employed by the company) rules in her favor.

I'm not disagreeing that what happened to her is bullshit, merely point out your lack of knowledge on arbitration
I have been through arbitration, and 3 law suits, you better believe I know how this works. in arbitration, both sides sit down and hand over their power to an arbitrator who then determines a binding decision. this prevents a judge or jury from ever having any part in the dispute. by signing a mandatory arbitration agreement you acknowledge that you are giving up your legal rights to litigation.

arbitrators are not bound by the rules of legal procedure, they can block all your witnesses, even tell you what you may and may not say in your own testimony, they also restrict your ability to gather evidence. companies prefer arbitration, the awards tend to be much smaller then jury awards, information does not need to be disclosed even to the arbitrator, and a companies dirty laundry does not get exposed. but what really sucks about arbitration, if you have a dispute with your company, and have to meet with an arbitrator it can cost you tens of thousands of dollars just to meet with an arbitrator.

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 06:05 PM
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Depends on what type of arbitration it is. Almost all civil lawsuits in Texas are sent to arbitration prior to the court case in an attempt to unclog dockets.

In binding arbitration you are typically bound by the decision of the arbitrator unless you can proves some gross miscarriage of justice (like the arbitrator not allowing certain evidence that proves to be material to the case.)

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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I'm trying to find what they define as "certain claims." I'm not one to think they have any right interfering with employer contracts, but I have no problem with this as long as "certain claims" are defined as pretty drastic scenarios like the gangrape ordeal.

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 10:12 AM
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Here is an idea, if the employee isn't comfortable with signing away their rights to litigation, then they shouldn't work for them. Radical idea I know.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 10:21 AM
Lifer
 
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Originally Posted by 01WhiteCobra View Post
Depends on what type of arbitration it is. Almost all civil lawsuits in Texas are sent to arbitration prior to the court case in an attempt to unclog dockets.

In binding arbitration you are typically bound by the decision of the arbitrator unless you can proves some gross miscarriage of justice (like the arbitrator not allowing certain evidence that proves to be material to the case.)
in texas non binding arbitration is usually mediation, its sort of like arbitration, but both parties have to agree, there is a lot of dealing back and forth. if a deal is not reached you can still go to court, and if a deal is reached a judge can still block it or ask that it be changed.

however in labor arbitration, the courts do not get involved, its nearly impossible to over turn a binding arbitration decision, because there is no one to appeal to.

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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonball996 View Post
in texas non binding arbitration is usually mediation, its sort of like arbitration, but both parties have to agree, there is a lot of dealing back and forth. if a deal is not reached you can still go to court, and if a deal is reached a judge can still block it or ask that it be changed.

however in labor arbitration, the courts do not get involved, its nearly impossible to over turn a binding arbitration decision, because there is no one to appeal to.
Non-binding arbitration still has the due process of binding arbitration, but the parties can choose to vacate the award. Mediation doesn't do that, it's a way to get the parties face to face.

Be careful, labor arbitration generally covers Union contract and other areas where collective bargaining take place. The KBR case should fall under employment arbitration (yes, there is a difference, employment arbitration covers statutory situations).

Arbitration exists as an alternative to the courts, so it's not like you're signing away your 'rights.'

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 10:42 AM
Lifer
 
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Originally Posted by Sean88gt View Post
Arbitration exists as an alternative to the courts, so it's not like you're signing away your 'rights.'
is clearly says in a mandatory arbitration contract that you are waving your rights.

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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannonball996 View Post
is clearly says in a mandatory arbitration contract that you are waving your rights.
To litigation, yes. But you still have rights. Most arbitrators belong to associations that follow procedures set forth in the law. Including the right to vacate the decision if the arbitrator doesn't stick to the rules.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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