47% won't pay taxes.... - DFWstangs Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-01-2009, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
Token Troll
 
GhostTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sherman
Posts: 4,101
47% won't pay taxes....

Quote:
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Most people think they pay too much to Uncle Sam, but for some people it simply is not true.

In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

Some in that group will even get additional money from the government because they qualify for refundable tax breaks.

The ranks of those whose major federal tax burdens net out at zero -- or less -- is on the rise. The center's original 2009 estimate was 38%. That was before enactment in February of the $787 billion economic recovery package, which included a host of new or expanded tax breaks.

The issue doesn't get a lot of attention even as lawmakers debate how to pay for policy initiatives like health reform, whether to extend the Bush tax cuts and how to reduce the deficit.

The vast majority of households making up to $30,000 fall into the category, as do nearly half of all households making between $30,000 and $40,000.

As you move up the income scale the percentages drop.

Nearly 22% of those making between $50,000 and $75,000 end up with no federal income tax liability or negative liability as do 9% of households with incomes between $75,000 and $100,000.

Of course, income taxes don't tell the whole story. Workers are also subject to payroll taxes, which support Social Security and Medicare.

When considering federal income taxes in combination with payroll taxes, the percent of households with a net liability of zero or less is estimated to be 24% this year, according to the Tax Policy Center's estimates.

A key reason why there is a zero-liability group at all is because the U.S. tax system is progressive. Those who bring in more money pay more than those lower down the income scale to support government functions such as national defense and social safety nets like Medicaid for those in need. That progressivity can be dialed up or down.

"Some think it's too progressive. Some don't think it's progressive enough," said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the center.

President Obama falls into the latter camp. He has proposed increasing the income tax burden on families making more than $250,000 and individuals making more than $200,000, while offering new measures to reduce the tax bite for most Americans making less.

One of Obama's proposals is to extend the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts for everyone except high-income tax filers, which was the group that derived the most benefit from those cuts.

As a result, under Obama's budget, he would keep the ranks of the non-payers higher than they would otherwise be.
Why the tax-free matter

The question of who pays and who doesn't is not a trivial matter. But Washington policymakers are not dealing with it in an explicit way.

And that's a problem, given the country's fiscal outlook.

If asked to vote up or down on whether they are comfortable with such a large group of voters contributing no federal income tax or payroll tax revenue, the majority may well decide it is appropriate given the means of the households involved. Or they may decide that it's not.

Either way, that decision should inform the debate about the many costly policies and deficit-reduction strategies that lawmakers will be grappling with for years to come.

"As the number [of nonpayers] becomes larger, we have to question whether we'll make good decisions about how to allocate resources," economist George Zodrow, a professor at Rice University. "Most people don't understand how skewed the tax distribution is."

Experts say that to pay for all the things on the country's growing tab, the money can't just come from a shrunken pool of taxpayers.

"Over the long run, you'll have to have a broader base," Zodrow said
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/t...axes/index.htm

'05 Redfire Mustang

"Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey
GhostTX is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-01-2009, 06:20 PM
Bullet Sponge
 
forever_frost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cooper, Tx
Posts: 3,142
I read that last night
forever_frost is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-01-2009, 09:05 PM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,163
That is absolutely Bull Shit!

I happen to be in the range that pay nothing........ And if I pay nothing, where the hell does all my money go before I even get a pay check? I damn sure don't get it back at the end of the year. And yes I use a CPA. And more than just one. Hell I've even done my own and got back about the same as they got me.



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
Honor is not something given to you by way of job, or title.

Honor is learned, earned, practiced and respected by all decent men and women.
tazz007 is offline  
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-01-2009, 09:10 PM
Time Served
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 528
Read that the other day too!

Just stupid! thats why we vote these people in... we need a flat tax or a sales tax or both... get rid of our tax code
Adam_aoc is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-01-2009, 09:15 PM
Genetically Blessed
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: An Investment Bank
Posts: 13,733
What a crock of shit. The thing to focus on here would be the trend, but then I saw that the original estimate was 38%. Ridiculous.
slow99 is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-01-2009, 09:17 PM
Bullet Sponge
 
forever_frost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cooper, Tx
Posts: 3,142
I'm one of those that pays zero. Literally. Technically, Dems would be best for me, but worst for the country and my oath says country first.
forever_frost is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-01-2009, 11:55 PM
Lifer
 
futant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 1,664
"Most people don't understand how skewed the tax distribution is."



I find this to be very true . Just talk to some people about taxes.
Rich people pay almost all the taxes here in the U.S.
Yet they just think they should keep on raising the taxes.
I for one am not rich but I pay plenty of taxes, mainly because i was single... but not for long.
The current tax system is already completely socialist in its agenda , but they just want to keep pushing the taxes higher until no one can run a damn business here. Where hard work is rewarded by mafia style taxation.

79 K5 blazer, 6" lift 38x15" tires d44/12b lockers and chromoly axles ,6.2L GM diesel - Waste Vegetable Oil conversion - cross over steering,14"SAW nitrogen shocks, beefed shackles, shackle flip, winch/ bumpers, diff covers.

94 CBR 600 naked, handbraked, -1 +3 sprockets, one wheel operation mod

"I'm sorry, nothing quite says, "F- You, I'm from Texas" like an all-business, stripped-down K5."
futant is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-01-2009, 11:58 PM
DFWMUSTANGS.NET
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by forever_frost View Post
I'm one of those that pays zero. Literally. Technically, Dems would be best for me, but worst for the country and my oath says country first.


Disabled Veteran..... Earned it??



<-- Thinks so.
sc281_99-0135 is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-02-2009, 10:20 AM
DFW MUSTANGS . NET
 
HOOCBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: DFW MUSTANGS . NET
Posts: 3,771
Quote:
Originally Posted by sc281_99-0135 View Post
Disabled Veteran..... Earned it??



<-- Thinks so.
100% Agree

I do not believe that anyone should have a negative tax liability. You should only be able to get a refund of no more that was paid in. Some exclusions may apply.

HOOCBB is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-02-2009, 10:28 AM
Lifer
 
MR TINFOIL HAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: NAU
Posts: 4,982
This is a very interesting documentary about those sorry bastards at the IRS. Watch them squirm, stutter, lie, and then claim that you have to pay income tax on your wages even though they can't show you ANYTHING written anywhere that says it's the law. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0303867390173#

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.

Last edited by MR TINFOIL HAT; 10-03-2009 at 08:24 AM.
MR TINFOIL HAT is offline  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-04-2009, 09:06 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR TINFOIL HAT View Post
This is a very interesting documentary about those sorry bastards at the IRS. Watch them squirm, stutter, lie, and then claim that you have to pay income tax on your wages even though they can't show you ANYTHING written anywhere that says it's the law. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0303867390173#
Yeah...... So, Income tax is illegal? So what do you do? Your never going to get enough people to stop paying income tax, or can you? If you can,,,,,how?

Good find BTW



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
Honor is not something given to you by way of job, or title.

Honor is learned, earned, practiced and respected by all decent men and women.
tazz007 is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-04-2009, 09:16 AM
Lifer
 
MR TINFOIL HAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: NAU
Posts: 4,982
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazz007 View Post
Yeah...... So, Income tax is illegal? So what do you do? Your never going to get enough people to stop paying income tax, or can you? If you can,,,,,how?

Good find BTW
Very good questions, I wish I had the answer. If everyone stopped paying it would be interesting to see what happens. If everyone knew that there was no law that would help. I forgot which newspaper offered it, but one of them offered a 50k dollar reward to anyone that could prove the tax law, btw no one won the 50k.

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
MR TINFOIL HAT is offline  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-04-2009, 09:37 AM
duh...duh....duh
 
ceyko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: ES BEER
Posts: 9,543
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR TINFOIL HAT View Post
Very good questions, I wish I had the answer. If everyone stopped paying it would be interesting to see what happens. If everyone knew that there was no law that would help. I forgot which newspaper offered it, but one of them offered a 50k dollar reward to anyone that could prove the tax law, btw no one won the 50k.
The real problem is not necessarily getting everyone to do it, which of course is a problem. The big problem is the crap that happens afterwards, the average American can't afford to be put in jail and/or deal with courts...etc...etc. Not to mention I think the average American would somehow lose in court, assuming there is no law. I won't lie, I've not studied the books to know for sure one way or another.

Catch 22

sucks to pay

but to rebel would cost a ton immediately and a criminal history would ruin a lot of Americans with their current jobs

if there is no law, what are we paying?

if we don't pay, ya know they'll squeeze the important funds - certainly not their golf funds or whatever


yadda yadda.

My '03 Sold.
ceyko is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-04-2009, 09:50 AM
Lifer
 
MR TINFOIL HAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: NAU
Posts: 4,982
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceyko View Post
The real problem is not necessarily getting everyone to do it, which of course is a problem. The big problem is the crap that happens afterwards, the average American can't afford to be put in jail and/or deal with courts...etc...etc. Not to mention I think the average American would somehow lose in court, assuming there is no law. I won't lie, I've not studied the books to know for sure one way or another.

Catch 22

sucks to pay

but to rebel would cost a ton immediately and a criminal history would ruin a lot of Americans with their current jobs

if there is no law, what are we paying?

if we don't pay, ya know they'll squeeze the important funds - certainly not their golf funds or whatever


yadda yadda.
How about an armed 10 million man march at the IRS, we could start with that.

Our government needs our help, they have an addiction. Our government is addicted to our money. Since they always have our best interest at heart it's time we return the favor. We need to have an intervention, for the governments own good of course. It's just irresponsible for us to let people with a known money addiction continue to handle our money. Lets have an intervention now so we can help these sick individuals.
MR TINFOIL HAT is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-04-2009, 09:50 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceyko View Post
The real problem is not necessarily getting everyone to do it, which of course is a problem. The big problem is the crap that happens afterwards, the average American can't afford to be put in jail and/or deal with courts...etc...etc. Not to mention I think the average American would somehow lose in court, assuming there is no law. I won't lie, I've not studied the books to know for sure one way or another.

Catch 22

sucks to pay

but to rebel would cost a ton immediately and a criminal history would ruin a lot of Americans with their current jobs

if there is no law, what are we paying?

if we don't pay, ya know they'll squeeze the important funds - certainly not their golf funds or whatever


yadda yadda.
This is why it would have to happen every where by the majority.

And BTW. Please don't come on here with the stupid argument "we have to pay for the schools and roads.

Roads .... Payed with gas tax.
Schools payed for by land and property tax.

So where is all of our income taxes going?

The military/law enforcement?...... Nope. that is payed for by corporate tax.

I don't list anything else, because this is the only thing the feds should be doing.

So where is your income tax going? The only place left to go, to pay the interest on what the feds have borrowed from the federal reserve to do what there not authorized by the constitution to do. Oh, this money the feds borrowed from the federal reserve was your money in the first place.

Vicious cycle ain't it.

Do you get it yet?



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
Honor is not something given to you by way of job, or title.

Honor is learned, earned, practiced and respected by all decent men and women.
tazz007 is offline  
post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-04-2009, 10:01 AM
Punk Ass Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 18
we need a higher sales tax. that would let lower income people pay a little and those of us who buy lots of stuff pay more. there would not be a loop hole on a 20 million dollar plane or boat either.
winegarner2 is offline  
post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-04-2009, 10:15 AM
Lifer
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by winegarner2 View Post
we need a higher sales tax. that would let lower income people pay a little and those of us who buy lots of stuff pay more. there would not be a loop hole on a 20 million dollar plane or boat either.
No we don't! We need to stop thinking like this. The feds do not need this extra money to do with what they please.

Listen, the feds get enough money to do their proper job without income tax or sales tax, period. And until people realize this, nothing will change, with the exception, this will get worse.



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
Honor is not something given to you by way of job, or title.

Honor is learned, earned, practiced and respected by all decent men and women.
tazz007 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DFWstangs Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome