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post #1 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 10:17 AM Thread Starter
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Smile Dems going it alone on health care

Drudge is reporting that the dems are gonna run with the health care deal and to hell with bipartisanship. Same policy that the dems have had since they took office. They are all for bipartisanship as long as the republicans agree with what they want to do.

2010 is going to be very interesting. I think it is shaping up to be a democratic rout.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26250.html
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post #2 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 10:39 AM
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post #3 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 11:02 AM
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Guys like Harry Reid and Chet Edwards will be sacrificial lambs. They rarely exhibit thought on their own and simply follow Princess Pelosi, yet live in VERY conservative areas that will result in their ousting.

Fuck them and good riddance.

This bill is just another to show their arrogance.

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post #4 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 11:19 AM
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Using reconcilliation, they only need 51 votes. They have that.
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post #5 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 11:20 AM
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In addition to the Blue Dogs, the public option has the middle-of-the-road and left wing socialists at odds with each other.

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post #6 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Using reconcilliation, they only need 51 votes. They have that.
Let them pass it, it will be like signing their own death warrant.
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post #7 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 12:40 PM
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Let them pass it, it will be like signing their own death warrant.
at our expense

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post #8 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 01:17 PM
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at our expense
X2

Fuck that, it will take years, if ever, to undo that BS if they pass it.

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post #9 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 01:26 PM
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They have the unchecked power to do as they wish. Its now or never for them. Its no ones fault but those that elected these fuckers into office to begin with.
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post #10 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 01:37 PM
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They have the unchecked power to do as they wish. Its now or never for them. Its no ones fault but those that elected these fuckers into office to begin with.
But we all have to pay the price.

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post #11 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 02:04 PM
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But we all have to pay the price.
We sure will.....
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post #12 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 02:14 PM
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Too bad our current healthcare insurance is so high. If it was easily affordable to anyone then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
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post #13 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 02:25 PM
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Too bad our current healthcare insurance is so high. If it was easily affordable to anyone then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
The downside is that most people can and do afford it.

Would I like it to be cheaper? Yes

If they do pass it, I figure I will still be holding the tab for the same amount, except it will be in taxes instead of tax free heath deduct.

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post #14 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 02:36 PM
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Too bad our current healthcare insurance is so high. If it was easily affordable to anyone then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Do you think your total overall healthcare costs are going to drop?

Do you think the care you're going to receive in a government-managed healthcare program is going to be better than what you're already paying for?
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post #15 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 02:41 PM
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post #16 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 06:37 PM
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Hummmm, I do believe I have pointed this out.


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post #17 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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at our expense
I figure that when the republicans regain power they'll back out that legislation.
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post #18 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 06:49 PM
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I figure that when the republicans regain power they'll back out that legislation.

No they won't. Just like the dem's did not undo anything Bush brain did. They just expand on it.



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post #19 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 07:15 PM
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Emanuel got called out and then ran away. These folks are not good for the USA anyone who doesnt see it is blind or doesnt want to believe it.

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post #20 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 09:09 PM
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No they won't. Just like the dem's did not undo anything Bush brain did. They just expand on it.
GTFO with that shit! They're going to let the tax breaks expire!

Oh yeah, they're also closing one prison, just to move them into different prisons and give these fucks that aren't even Americans full rights of the law that Americans are gracious enough to have!

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post #21 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 10:54 PM
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Do you think your total overall healthcare costs are going to drop?

Do you think the care you're going to receive in a government-managed healthcare program is going to be better than what you're already paying for?
No. Im against all that. Im just saying its too bad, cause then they could not get an ounce of support for their cause.
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post #22 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 12:04 AM
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post #23 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 12:16 AM
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Just got off work and we were talking about healthcare reform because it effects us directly (I work in an ER).

I forgot which town hall meeting it was, but Obama was babbling about diabetes patients losing their feet due to their diabetes. He stated surgeons make $30,000-40,000 per amputation. That ninja wasnt even close. The American Medical Association soon put out their rebuttal stating that the average surgeon makes $580-750 per amputation. The hospital is reimbursed on average $3000-4000 per surgery. He needs to stop spouting out bullshit and give out the facts. He was stating prevention is much cheaper...while it sounds great, prevention of something like that is NOT going to happen unless the patient takes care of themself. All the classes in the world and education on the subject will not help someone who is unwilling to help themselves.


My one thing I would like to see done is patients without insurance should pay insurance rates. Our hospital gives up to 55% discounts on treatment for people without insurance but it is still well over the costs of insurance payouts. Why should someone without insurance have to pay MORE for the same thing a person with insurance would have to pay. If the hospital bills $10,000 and the insurance agreed payment amount is $1500, the person without insurance should pay $1500, not $4500.

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post #24 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 12:55 AM
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He was stating prevention is much cheaper...while it sounds great, prevention of something like that is NOT going to happen unless the patient takes care of themself. All the classes in the world and education on the subject will not help someone who is unwilling to help themselves.
ahiraeiraeryhiaryhipagrp

I wish more people would SEE THIS. Over like 85-90% of deaths and illnesses are a product of our risky lifestyles. Prevention is one of the keys to improving our healthcare system.

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post #25 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 01:55 PM
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He was stating prevention is much cheaper...while it sounds great, prevention of something like that is NOT going to happen unless the patient takes care of themself. All the classes in the world and education on the subject will not help someone who is unwilling to help themselves.
They won't need to provide education...they'll just tax the shit out of products that THEY deem as harmful...

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post #26 of 40 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 02:10 PM
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My one thing I would like to see done is patients without insurance should pay insurance rates. Our hospital gives up to 55% discounts on treatment for people without insurance but it is still well over the costs of insurance payouts. Why should someone without insurance have to pay MORE for the same thing a person with insurance would have to pay. If the hospital bills $10,000 and the insurance agreed payment amount is $1500, the person without insurance should pay $1500, not $4500.
I do not understand, why bill out $10,000 when you agreed upon $1,500?
I agree with your point though.

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post #27 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-07-2009, 11:00 PM
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post #28 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-07-2009, 11:31 PM
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They won't need to provide education...they'll just tax the shit out of products that THEY deem as harmful...
You mean like the air we breath.......... That would be cap and trade, boys and girls.

Oh well, so much for the feds judgment on whats bad for us.



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post #29 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-07-2009, 11:42 PM
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ahiraeiraeryhiaryhipagrp

I wish more people would SEE THIS. Over like 85-90% of deaths and illnesses are a product of our risky lifestyles. Prevention is one of the keys to improving our healthcare system.

OK, so? I ride without a helmet. Risky, yeah, to me, and it's my choice. You going to let congress revamp the interstate system because of this? Or would it be more since able to try to educate me. Might be cheaper too.

Get it?

I wish more people would see this.
This is a free country! Our rights are not to be trifled with any longer!
Our money is not to be taxed on any more socialistic programs!
Health care is not a right!

If all the people that are for this health care crap, would donate 2% of their earnings to the hospitals to provide aid to the 15mil (real number) uninsured. This would not even be before congress.

Did you donate? Or do you just want the feds to take it from me?



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post #30 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 12:49 PM
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I would just say that if you were riding without a helmet, you get no help for free, and any life threatening injuries you may sustain are your own affair to deal with. No one but you should have to pay a dime cause of your choice. Or should they? If we go that far, we may as well say no one even riding a motorcycle should be entitled to care. So where does the good law begin, and the evil law begin?
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post #31 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 01:08 PM
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I would just say that if you were riding without a helmet, you get no help for free, and any life threatening injuries you may sustain are your own affair to deal with. No one but you should have to pay a dime cause of your choice. Or should they? If we go that far, we may as well say no one even riding a motorcycle should be entitled to care. So where does the good law begin, and the evil law begin?
You hit upon a good point. If we have the "public option" (fully socialized medicine), does everyone realize that there will be all sorts of new laws? The government will start justifying more safety standards on auto manufacturers, and anything else that could "pose a threat" to your body. Will smoking even be allowed in the future? Drinking? Saturated fats (this has already started)? It's endless when it comes to the constraints they could put on us.

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post #32 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 01:17 PM
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You hit upon a good point. If we have the "public option" (fully socialized medicine), does everyone realize that there will be all sorts of new laws? The government will start justifying more safety standards on auto manufacturers, and anything else that could "pose a threat" to your body. Will smoking even be allowed in the future? Drinking? Saturated fats (this has already started)? It's endless when it comes to the constraints they could put on us.
It is nothing less than the total loss of freedom. We're halfway there already. Every passenger in a car has to be wearing a seat belt. Why????
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post #33 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 01:19 PM
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It is nothing less than the total loss of freedom. We're halfway there already. Every passenger in a car has to be wearing a seat belt. Why????
Why dont school buses have them?

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post #34 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 01:22 PM
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Why dont school buses have them?
I think the issue is that kids may not be able get out of them in the event of something catastrophic happening...submersion, train crossing, etc.

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post #35 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 01:34 PM
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I think the issue is that kids may not be able get out of them in the event of something catastrophic happening...submersion, train crossing, etc.
But with the same token, they are fucked in the event something catastrophic happens. Driver hitting a bridge, pole, concrete divider, etc.
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post #36 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-10-2009, 06:13 AM
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Just got off work and we were talking about healthcare reform because it effects us directly (I work in an ER).

I forgot which town hall meeting it was, but Obama was babbling about diabetes patients losing their feet due to their diabetes. He stated surgeons make $30,000-40,000 per amputation. That ninja wasnt even close. The American Medical Association soon put out their rebuttal stating that the average surgeon makes $580-750 per amputation. The hospital is reimbursed on average $3000-4000 per surgery. He needs to stop spouting out bullshit and give out the facts. He was stating prevention is much cheaper...while it sounds great, prevention of something like that is NOT going to happen unless the patient takes care of themself. All the classes in the world and education on the subject will not help someone who is unwilling to help themselves.


My one thing I would like to see done is patients without insurance should pay insurance rates. Our hospital gives up to 55% discounts on treatment for people without insurance but it is still well over the costs of insurance payouts. Why should someone without insurance have to pay MORE for the same thing a person with insurance would have to pay. If the hospital bills $10,000 and the insurance agreed payment amount is $1500, the person without insurance should pay $1500, not $4500.


At my local hospital it is not like that.
For a $7700 ER bill that was sent to insurance, the insurance paid $5000, the patient paid $2700 but without insurance the cash price was only around $1700. I was told the hospital does this to the insurance bill in order to help recover for those who don't pay.

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post #37 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-10-2009, 08:27 AM
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You mean like the air we breath.......... That would be cap and trade, boys and girls.

Oh well, so much for the feds judgment on whats bad for us.
Cap and Trade has nothing to do with taxing things like soft drinks or a Big Mac...

My understanging of Cap and Trade is that it is a cap on energy emissions and trading for more carbon credits so a plant has a higher emission ceiling. When someone exceeds their carbon credits, they are fined by the gubment. That company in turn passes that fine down to the consumer by way of higher rates.

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post #38 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-10-2009, 10:02 AM
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You hit upon a good point. If we have the "public option" (fully socialized medicine), does everyone realize that there will be all sorts of new laws? The government will start justifying more safety standards on auto manufacturers, and anything else that could "pose a threat" to your body. Will smoking even be allowed in the future? Drinking? Saturated fats (this has already started)? It's endless when it comes to the constraints they could put on us.
Well then I guess that he who chooses to be unsafe, just has to take one for the team when he gets hurt lol. It would make people be more responsible imo. And on top of that, we wouldn't have to pay when some dope hurts himself cause he wasn't buckled.

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At my local hospital it is not like that.
For a $7700 ER bill that was sent to insurance, the insurance paid $5000, the patient paid $2700 but without insurance the cash price was only around $1700. I was told the hospital does this to the insurance bill in order to help recover for those who don't pay.
Then that right there is the answer to ALL OF THIS. No more debate, no more power play. Simply garnish the wages, of those who do not pay, for the LOWER price. Problem solved. Now guess what? Insurance companies will all be drastically lowering their prices to compete with each other. Since they don't have to unjustly pay through the fucking nose. Too many people trying to live way above their means? Not with their wages being garnished for services they partook of. Might teach em some responsibility at the same time.

Last edited by justinsn95; 09-10-2009 at 10:14 AM.
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post #39 of 40 (permalink) Old 09-10-2009, 10:07 PM
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The answer is less insurance not more. There should be competition among doctors you should know how much you will pay up front and pay cash for most anything. Insurance should only be there to cover a major event ei heart failure cancer etc and have a high deductible with low premium.



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