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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-14-2009, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
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Obama panel said No to nasa

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nati...y/1185467.html

I know this is a "small" problem with everything going down, but to me personally, this just depresses me. When did the United States lose it's "Cowboy" attitude for science advancement and space exploration?

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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 09:52 AM
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you mean a liberal actually said "no" to spending?

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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 10:37 AM
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Well that's disappointing. If there's one thing I'd increase funding to if I was President it would be NASA.

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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 10:54 AM
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The end of the cold war killed off the govt's ambition for space exploration.
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 11:09 AM
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It's not a social program. If NASA could figure out a way to give more money to people that didn't earn it Obama would throw trillions of dollars their way.

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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 11:46 AM
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If we already went before then why is it gonna take them another 11 years to do it again? make you wonder. either way fuck obama
Because we never did. :tinfoilsmiley:

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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 11:50 AM
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NASA is a waste of time anyway, Quit dumping billions of money into putting 12 people into space a year and get the economy going with some of that money.

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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Bad03Cobra View Post
NASA is a waste of time anyway, Quit dumping billions of money into putting 12 people into space a year and get the economy going with some of that money.
Well that might be the most ignorant thing posted in here in a long time.

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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 12:46 PM
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NASA along with our military should be the 2 most well funded programs we have. Fuck welfare. Find us some ore in space we can mine that we can use to rebuild our industry base
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 12:48 PM
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Well that might be the most ignorant thing posted in here in a long time.
WASTE OF TIME

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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 01:01 PM
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NASA along with our military should be the 2 most well funded programs we have. Fuck welfare. Find us some ore in space we can mine that we can use to rebuild our industry base
Hell yea.

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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Bad03Cobra View Post
NASA is a waste of time anyway, Quit dumping billions of money into putting 12 people into space a year and get the economy going with some of that money.
Yeah, military satellite technology has been a big waste of time hasn't it? China will be the top dog in space exploration and technology within ten years, and the U.S. will be relegated to reminiscing about the good old days....both miltarily and economically.
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Bad03Cobra View Post
WASTE OF TIME
I can't imagine life without LEDs, MRIs, carbon fiber, lithium batteries, satellite TV, GPS or many of the other thousands of things we'd be doing without today if it hadn't been for NASA's research.

Note: NASA didn't invent most of these concepts, they just adapted them to be used for practical applications.

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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 02:13 PM
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I think at this point we could allow space exploration to become private industry operated. There are plenty of interested people to market to.
You can't have a private industry where there is no profit to be made.

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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 02:18 PM
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You can't have a private industry where there is no profit to be made.
Do more research there's multiple private corp's which claim they can reach Mars quicker and cheaper than NASA with proper funding.
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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 02:18 PM
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You can't have a private industry where there is no profit to be made.
The profit of knowledge is worth way more then any amount of money.

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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 02:25 PM
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Do more research there's multiple private corp's which claim they can reach Mars quicker and cheaper than NASA with proper funding.
So basically what you're saying is they don't make enough profit to fund themselves.

Thanks for supporting exactly what I said lol.

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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 02:25 PM
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The profit of knowledge is worth way more then any amount of money.
Knowledge isn't going to pay the billions of dollars necessary to get past the moon.

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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 03:04 PM
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I think private industry is the way to go for future space exploration. our government is just in way to much debt, and we have to trim more then just a little fat.

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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 03:10 PM
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Knowledge isn't going to pay the billions of dollars necessary to get past the moon.
False.

You can sell knowledge, look at college for example. Discovering things in space will bring on new teachings, books and so forth. If they discover something that could improve the standards of living, then they might as well just hit the jack pot because everyone in the world will want it.

Knowledge does not directly pay off the debt, but it indirectly could.

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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 04:50 PM
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WASTE OF TIME
That's probably what your parents refer to your conception as.


Last edited by Magnus; 08-15-2009 at 05:10 PM.
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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 05:21 PM
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That's probably what your parents refer to your conception as.
what are 13? I was refering to you.........

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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 05:26 PM
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what are 13? I was refering to you.........
wtf does this even mean?

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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 09:04 PM
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I'm a bit of a space nut (ok, I'm a nerd) so this was a bit disappointing to me. However this could go the other way. The big albatross around NASA's neck is the Space Station. Its orbital inclination is too far off for it to be used as a launching platform for expeditions to the moon, Mars or any other planet. It was put that way to the Russians could launch Soyuz and Progress ships could reach it from Russia. Now NASA wants to deorbit this $100BILLION platform in 2015. This would be before AresI/Orion would even be flight ready. Once again, NASA shows its stupidity.

The ISS has been designated as a National Laboratory. Lets use it as such. Take it away from NASA and let the DoD, Dept of Energy, and American Universities use it. Tell NASA that they have to pay to use it and they have to use commercial space craft to get to it. SpaceX will be flying there Falcon9 rocket this fall. If successful, they will be flying the unmanned Dragon capsule early next year. Dragon was designed from the start to be a manned spacecraft. The only thing SpaceX needs to "man rate" their rocket is to add an escape rocket. SpaceX estimates that this would cost $50 to $100million to develop. The thing is, SpaceX has developed Falcon9 for LESS than $1billion. Ares1 is estimated to cost between $5 and $10Billion.

If NASA is relieved of their duties with ISS, they will have plenty of funding to work on a real exploration program.

Another alternative is to get the Russians to agree to changing the Space Station's orbit. It is estimated that it would cost $1Billion to do this. However, if you can use the space station as a staging ground for exploration, it becomes incredibly useful. You can let SpaceX handle crew transport to ISS. Then NASA can build a craft that is meant for exploration beyond LEO. That craft can carry use to the Moon, Mars, the Asteroids and maybe beyond that. NASA could build an actual space transportation infrastructure that would bring down the cost of deep spaceflight over the long haul while actually going somewhere.

Right now, I wish a quick death upon the NASA that currently exists. If it doesn't change, there is no point in it. We must EXPLORE, not sit idly in orbit.

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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 09:06 PM
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Yeah, military satellite technology has been a big waste of time hasn't it? China will be the top dog in space exploration and technology within ten years, and the U.S. will be relegated to reminiscing about the good old days....both miltarily and economically.
Those are the days im waiting for! Ive been asking how come is always shit hole countries in asia coming out with the new tech, economies are growing like crazy and they have a new strong middle class! Gee what an idea, this country had that at one time!

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 09:14 PM
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Yeah, military satellite technology has been a big waste of time hasn't it? China will be the top dog in space exploration and technology within ten years, and the U.S. will be relegated to reminiscing about the good old days....both miltarily and economically.
At least the Military side of things should be ok. NASA doesn't build their rockets or satellites, the National Reconnaissance office builds the satellites and the rockets are EELV's supplied by Lockheed Martin and Boeing.

From NASA's standpoint, only manned exploration is being threatened. Well, maybe not threatened because NASA hasn't had an EXPLORATION program since the 1970's.

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post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-15-2009, 11:30 PM
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I'm a bit of a space nut (ok, I'm a nerd) so this was a bit disappointing to me. However this could go the other way. The big albatross around NASA's neck is the Space Station. Its orbital inclination is too far off for it to be used as a launching platform for expeditions to the moon, Mars or any other planet. It was put that way to the Russians could launch Soyuz and Progress ships could reach it from Russia. Now NASA wants to deorbit this $100BILLION platform in 2015. This would be before AresI/Orion would even be flight ready. Once again, NASA shows its stupidity.

The ISS has been designated as a National Laboratory. Lets use it as such. Take it away from NASA and let the DoD, Dept of Energy, and American Universities use it. Tell NASA that they have to pay to use it and they have to use commercial space craft to get to it. SpaceX will be flying there Falcon9 rocket this fall. If successful, they will be flying the unmanned Dragon capsule early next year. Dragon was designed from the start to be a manned spacecraft. The only thing SpaceX needs to "man rate" their rocket is to add an escape rocket. SpaceX estimates that this would cost $50 to $100million to develop. The thing is, SpaceX has developed Falcon9 for LESS than $1billion. Ares1 is estimated to cost between $5 and $10Billion.

If NASA is relieved of their duties with ISS, they will have plenty of funding to work on a real exploration program.

Another alternative is to get the Russians to agree to changing the Space Station's orbit. It is estimated that it would cost $1Billion to do this. However, if you can use the space station as a staging ground for exploration, it becomes incredibly useful. You can let SpaceX handle crew transport to ISS. Then NASA can build a craft that is meant for exploration beyond LEO. That craft can carry use to the Moon, Mars, the Asteroids and maybe beyond that. NASA could build an actual space transportation infrastructure that would bring down the cost of deep spaceflight over the long haul while actually going somewhere.

Right now, I wish a quick death upon the NASA that currently exists. If it doesn't change, there is no point in it. We must EXPLORE, not sit idly in orbit.
AFAIK even if we did get up there, we don't have the technology to get places quickly. Mars...MAYBE. The asteroid belt? I doubt it. That's an incredibly long distance that would probably takes YEARS to reach.

And I'm a bit of an astronomy nerd myself. I took astronomy for my two required science credits this last year. Coolest class I've ever taken.

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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-16-2009, 07:39 AM
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AFAIK even if we did get up there, we don't have the technology to get places quickly. Mars...MAYBE. The asteroid belt? I doubt it. That's an incredibly long distance that would probably takes YEARS to reach.

And I'm a bit of an astronomy nerd myself. I took astronomy for my two required science credits this last year. Coolest class I've ever taken.
A window for a 6 month route to Mars opens every two years. ISS is already capable of supporting 6 people for a year without resupply. It could have supported 12 for the same period if NASA hadn't canceled the habitation module. Life support technology has already grown substantially since ISS was first developed.

The new VASMIR engine can do it in 39 days. A fully operational version of this engine has already been built and is undergoing testing right now. It is expected to be installed on ISS for more testing as well as being used to maintain orbit.

The only BIG technological hurdle is radiation shielding. At present an interplanetary trip would need a safe room that is surrounded by water tanks to shield astronauts from cosmic ray storms. Water, of course, is a natural radiation shield because of its high hydrogen content. This might be fine for Mars but the outer planets may require even more shielding. Someone is going to have to figure out how to build a lightweight passive or active shielding system.


One other thing, there is a HUGE benefit in going to the Asteroid belt. CERES is mostly ice water. If we get there we can have a fuel/supply depot that will get us go anywhere in the solar system.


BTW, one of the proposals that will be submitted to Obama IS to get rid of ISS in one fashion or another and have NASA do a "RUSH" into deep space. There would be no "planned" landings but the space craft that we built would take people to orbit Mars, near earth asteroids, and eventually the outer planets. The idea is to simply get NASA going somewhere. Landings would be handled as separately funded projects that would eventually be carried by the new space craft. Honestly I think the administration might go that route.

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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-16-2009, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Bad03Cobra View Post
NASA is a waste of time anyway, Quit dumping billions of money into putting 12 people into space a year and get the economy going with some of that money.
I find it ironic that you say that when about 50 things in your room including the computer you are typing on were made or made better because of aerospace development.
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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-16-2009, 05:18 PM
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At least the Military side of things should be ok. NASA doesn't build their rockets or satellites, the National Reconnaissance office builds the satellites and the rockets are EELV's supplied by Lockheed Martin and Boeing.

From NASA's standpoint, only manned exploration is being threatened. Well, maybe not threatened because NASA hasn't had an EXPLORATION program since the 1970's.
That's true today, but it was NASA who got the ball rolling for the military in the early days of satellites, and likewise the military who gave NASA the personnel to begin manned space exploration. It will be a shame if that synergy comes to a permanent end.
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post #31 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-16-2009, 06:04 PM
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That's true today, but it was NASA who got the ball rolling for the military in the early days of satellites, and likewise the military who gave NASA the personnel to begin manned space exploration. It will be a shame if that synergy comes to a permanent end.
That's all true. But no one is really calling for an end to NASA. What we are seeing is NASA's future plans being killed. Ares/Orion/Constellation is likely dead and frankly it should be. AresI is looking more and more like a POS that is way over budget.

I think NASA needs to get out of the LEO business. Have NASA lease/buy rockets and capsules from private industry (aka SpaceX) to gain LEO access. It is amazing how far SpaceX has gotten with so little money. Taxpayers have paid very little for the development of Falcon 9 and nothing for Falcon1. SpaceX's CEO stated that they are still under budget and pretty close to being on scheduled for Falcon 9's first launch. If NASA funds the man rating of the Dragon capsule, it is very likely that NASA would be able to use it to get to ISS by 2012.

But I've said all of this already..

Basically I think NASA either needs to have a HUGE change in how it does business or it needs to DIE and something else born from the ashes.

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post #32 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Bad03Cobra View Post
NASA is a waste of time anyway, Quit dumping billions of money into putting 12 people into space a year and get the economy going with some of that money.
"Sometimes it's better to let people think your stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

I totally agree with this comment from the link:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel2260
wrote on 08/16/2009 1137 PM:
So that I clearly understand our American priorities, we allocated hundreds of billions $ for the economic stimulus, hundreds of billions for the auto companies and banks. Then we're on the verge of allocated more of the same for ObamaCare and the "Cap 'n' Trade" climate change bill. But we Americans are going to take a back seat on science and technologies innovation that we were at the forefront of development??? Many of the modern day technologies we currently enjoy - personal GPS, cell phones, personal computers (PCs), smart energy home appliances were all spin-offs either directly or indirectly from requirements by NASA for the space program by the USA. Countless numbers of good paying technical jobs were created in the process.

Now it seems that we are going to cast ALL of our technical innovation AND leadership capabilities aside???

What's happened to American leadership, strength and 'Can Do" spirit? Our leadership spends it's time apologizing to the rest of the world
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post #33 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 09:16 AM
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http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nati...y/1185467.html

I know this is a "small" problem with everything going down, but to me personally, this just depresses me. When did the United States lose it's "Cowboy" attitude for science advancement and space exploration?
There are no poor people in space to buy votes from.
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