The Feds WON'T save California.. - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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The Feds WON'T save California..

Holy shit I'm fucking stunned!


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/24266.html

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With California’s state government deadlocked over a $24 billion hole in its budget, the Golden State is hurtling toward financial apocalypse.

Washington’s response? Deal with it yourselves.

California is the world’s 8th-largest economy, home to one out of every eight Americans and the holder of 55 electoral votes. The state enjoys incredible sway on Capitol Hill — witness Friday’s passage of the climate change bill championed by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and House Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) — and it may hold the key to President Barack Obama’s re-election: California’s fiscal pain could imperil the economic recovery of the entire nation.

But the Obama administration and the state’s powerful congressional delegation say they just can’t hold the state’s hand through this one.

And some of the toughest love is coming from California’s own.

“Why would we bail out the state when it’s like giving drugs to a drug addict?” said Rep. Devin Nunes, a Republican who represents parts California’s San Joaquin Valley.

Asked if the federal government should be helping California with its budget crisis, Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein — the state’s senior senator — shot back: “Do you know what the state is getting in stimulus money? $50 billion.”

Rep. Zoe Lofgren, the chairwoman of the state’s 33-member Democratic delegation, said California’s budget quagmire is largely a result of structural process in the budget process: It takes a two-thirds majority in both houses of the state legislature to pass a budget or raise taxes, which effectively means that no one can do anything unless majority Democrats, minority Republicans and the state’s Republican governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, agree.

“If we [in Congress] had to do what the California legislature does, we would never send a bill to the president of the United States,” she said. “That’s a problem. But I can’t solve that problem. . . . Ultimately the voters of California are going to have to confront what’s happening in their state and figure out what to do about it.”

The White House echoes this can’t-save-California-from-itself sentiment.

“We’ll continue to monitor the challenges that they have. But this budgetary problem, unfortunately, is one that they're going to have to solve,” White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said earlier this month.

In May, when State Treasurer Bill Lockyer asked the Obama administration for aid in the form of federal guarantees for the short-term bonds the state needs to sell to pay its bills this summer, the White House said no; Treasury determined that such assistance would help only at the margins.

Some Democrats in the California delegation — including Lofgren — are working with House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D-Mass.) on legislation that would allow Treasury to use TARP funds to guarantee short-term bonds that California and several other states regularly issue to deal with cash flow. But Lofgren said it would be “very unusual” for Congress to move quickly enough to help.

And any kind of California-specific bailout would be politically unpopular outside of the Golden State. The TV spots all but write themselves: Think shuttered auto plants in Michigan side by side with chardonnay-sipping San Franciscans and starlets by the pool at the Beverly Hills Hotel.

A May Rasmussen poll found that 66 percent of voters nationwide opposed the federal government guaranteeing California’s loans. And 48 percent said it would be better to let California go bankrupt than to hand the state a federal bailout.

Helping out California would open a Pandora’s box of policy headaches for the administration. How do you justify helping one state — even if it’s the biggest — when dozens of other state legislatures and governors have managed to make the wrenching budget cuts necessary? Granting special assistance could be seen as rewarding the worst actor – and set a dangerous precedent that might tempt other states to shrug off budget pain in hopes of getting a bailout.

Another option would be a second stimulus to help all severely cash-strapped states and counteract the economic drag their budget cuts are having on the recovery. But Obama was asked about the possibility of a second stimulus last week, and he made it clear that he wasn’t ready to go down that road.

There are plenty of good reasons California’s congressional delegation isn’t wading into the state’s budget morass, either.



Members from California know that a California-specific bailout wouldn’t be popular with their colleagues from the not-so-Golden states — and even less so since the White House isn’t on board.

And analysts say the California delegation isn’t quite as a powerful as it looks. Sure it’s the largest delegation on the Hill, and sure California boasts an impressive number of power players — including the speaker of the House herself. But the delegation is famously fractured, and not just along party lines. This is not the Texas or Michigan, whose members tend to close ranks when fighting for their state’s welfare.

“You can’t get the California delegation together for anything,” said John Ellwood, a professor of public policy at University of California, Berkeley.

State officials haven’t put much pressure on the delegation. Schwarzenegger has said repeatedly that he doesn’t want federal assistance, and his office was not directly involved in the May appeal to Treasury. A Lockyer spokesman said his office hasn’t spoken with administration officials since they turned down the request for the bond guarantees.

“We have been since then and continue to operate under the assumption that we are on our own; we are not going to get any help from the Obama administration. It’s a California problem; it has to be solved by Californians. And that’s what we plan to do,” said spokesman Tom Dresslar.

“The legislature and the governor have got to come together and make some decisions,” and then perhaps there is a way for the federal government to help, said veteran California Rep. George Miller, a Democrat and close Pelosi ally. “But I don’t see it now until the legislature takes the steps that they can and need to.”

California Republican cite somewhat different reasons for California’s current woes, including abusive union power and an addiction to spending, but their diagnosis is surprising similar to that of their Democratic colleagues.

“This is not a new problem for California,” said Republican Rep. John Campbell, who served in the California state legislature from 2000 to 2005, citing three or four smaller-scale budget crises since the early 1990s.

“The legislature and the governor just have not confronted the structural issues” causing the problems, said Campbell. “If the federal government helps out too much here, they’ll just put it off.”

As for his Democratic colleagues’ similar statements, Campbell speculated that “a number of them served in the legislature, they may feel the same way I do… that if we do something now, we’ll perpetuate the problem.”

The California situation amounts to a person “holding a gun to his head and saying, ‘If you don’t do something, I’ll shoot myself,’” said Alan Auerbach, an economist and public finance professor at Berkeley. “On the one hand, California needs help; but on the other hand, it certainly wouldn’t be unreasonable for the federal government to insist that California help itself too.”

Still, even if Sacramento is to blame for the state’s problems, isn’t California “too big to fail”?

Some analysts say yes.

“California is such a large and important fraction of the nation's economy now and in the future that pending budget cuts could delay a national recovery and weaken the nation’s long-term competitiveness,” said Jean Ross, executive director of the nonpartisan California Budget Project, said in an e-mail to POLITICO.

Loan guarantees aren’t enough, Ross said, arguing for a direct infusion of cash or increased federal assistance to the state’s health programs.

As for getting California’s house in order, Ross and others suggest the feds attach strings to the assistance that require significant changes in exchange for help.

Treasury, which is monitoring state-level conditions, hasn’t completely shut the door to helping California, but aid would only come under the most dire circumstances, said a source familiar with the department’s thinking. And the terms would be incredibly unattractive — the better to deter other states from putting themselves in a similar position.

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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:24 AM
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Good, maybe now Ca's congress will have to give into the Govinator and get rid of welfare
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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:26 AM
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Good, maybe now Ca's congress will have to give into the Govinator and get rid of welfare
If so, I hope Texas can handle the extra 3 million illegals...

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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:31 AM
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This could be exactly what is needed for a responsible solution to deal with the problem of illegals.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:31 AM
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1. Stop any government assistance for non-citizens
2. Cut all non-essential programs immediately
3. Propose a balanced budget amendment for the California Constitution

Voila, no more budget problems this year or any future year. I'm a fucking genius.
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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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If so, I hope Texas can handle the extra 3 million illegals...
It is more likely the bulk of them will go back to Mexico. The economy has a lot of illegals heading back as it is.

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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:38 AM
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If so, I hope Texas can handle the extra 3 million illegals...
I'm kind of hoping that Dbag Rick Perry would try and earn some extra points before next yrs elections by following the govinators lead.
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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:40 AM
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1. Stop any government assistance for non-citizens
2. Cut all non-essential programs immediately
3. Propose a balanced budget amendment for the California Constitution

Voila, no more budget problems this year or any future year. I'm a fucking genius.
All the stress of coming up with that plan has cost you your hair.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:46 AM
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About time they show a little common sense.

The nice thing about living in AZ is they already passed a bill last year making the penalties for employing illegals severe, and a shitload of them moved back to meheeko. IT's funny how their leaders there are pissed at us because their country can't handle the influx of useless motherfuckers. Gee.. Ya think? So when CA kicks all of them out, they know better than to come here.. But can you imagine how pissed Mexico is gonna be when all the Calexicans go back? i'm gonna laugh my ass off!

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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:50 AM
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Good maybe it will make all Californians pissed off at Democrats and those 55 electoral votes will sway to the other side.
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post #11 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:51 AM
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Good maybe it will make all Californians pissed off at Democrats and those 55 electoral votes will sway to the other side.
dont push your luck.....
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post #12 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 12:01 PM
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Sad when a state has the House Speaker on their side and still can't curry any favour...
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post #13 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 12:19 PM
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Sad when a state has the House Speaker on their side and still can't curry any favour...
She isn't any more Californian than she is Texan at this point, she is D.C. Elite.

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post #14 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 01:46 PM
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She isn't any more Californian than she is Texan at this point, she is D.C. Elite.
I was gonna say "dike cunt", but i guess that works too.

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post #15 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 02:14 PM
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She isn't any more Californian than she is Texan at this point, she is D.C. Elite.
True, as in a Ms. Ted Kennedy or similar.
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post #16 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 02:43 PM
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It is more likely the bulk of them will go back to Mexico. The economy has a lot of illegals heading back as it is.
Not trying to be funny here, but as a California native, I will tell you that Cali is dependent on them to run on a daily basis. From the normal massive lawn care, the biggest fast food employers, the numerous strawberry and orange fields to be picked that help run Cali's economy.
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post #17 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 02:46 PM
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About time they show a little common sense.

The nice thing about living in AZ is they already passed a bill last year making the penalties for employing illegals severe, and a shitload of them moved back to meheeko. IT's funny how their leaders there are pissed at us because their country can't handle the influx of useless motherfuckers. Gee.. Ya think? So when CA kicks all of them out, they know better than to come here.. But can you imagine how pissed Mexico is gonna be when all the Calexicans go back? i'm gonna laugh my ass off!
AZ - Check.
CA - Probably going to be forced into cutting off illegals, so Check
TX - New haven for illegals?
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post #18 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 03:10 PM
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I would hope that if all that goes down we here in Texas would have less patience in enacting similar legislation than the others have shown...
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post #19 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 03:16 PM
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AZ - Check.
CA - Probably going to be forced into cutting off illegals, so Check
TX - New haven for illegals?
God I hope not..
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post #20 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 03:17 PM
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Not trying to be funny here, but as a California native, I will tell you that Cali is dependent on them to run on a daily basis. From the normal massive lawn care, the biggest fast food employers, the numerous strawberry and orange fields to be picked that help run Cali's economy.
That's funny I spent 4 days in the midwest and saw nuemerous white/blacks working in fast food and cutting lawns. Hell in my grandmothers hometown I didn't see one messican back in the back at the DQ cooking/etc.

I think you overrate depending on vs how many work a particular field.
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post #21 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 03:32 PM
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Not trying to be funny here, but as a California native, I will tell you that Cali is dependent on them to run on a daily basis. From the normal massive lawn care, the biggest fast food employers, the numerous strawberry and orange fields to be picked that help run Cali's economy.
Sounds like a recipe for allowing the rich to amass wealth by forcing their underpaid workforce to be subsidized by government programs. I'm not in favor of it. Everyone should work for a decent, fair wage.
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post #22 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 03:55 PM
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Sounds like a recipe for allowing the rich to amass wealth by forcing their underpaid workforce to be subsidized by government programs. I'm not in favor of it. Everyone should work for a decent, fair wage.
x2. Low-skill factory labor is a prime example. I'm also of the opinion that we should put able bodied welfare recipients to work on the infrastructure, like the Civilian Conservation Corps. We're already paying them a wage, so they might as well earn their keep.

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post #23 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 03:58 PM
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x2. I'm also of the opinion that we should put able bodied welfare recipients to work on the infrastructure, like the Civilian Conservation Corps. We're already paying them a wage, so they might as well earn their keep.
Darn straight! I would expect nothing less if I was on welfare.
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post #24 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 04:17 PM
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That's funny I spent 4 days in the midwest and saw nuemerous white/blacks working in fast food and cutting lawns. Hell in my grandmothers hometown I didn't see one messican back in the back at the DQ cooking/etc.

I think you overrate depending on vs how many work a particular field.
You completely missed my point, but ok.
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post #25 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 04:28 PM
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That's funny I spent 4 days in the midwest and saw nuemerous white/blacks working in fast food and cutting lawns. Hell in my grandmothers hometown I didn't see one messican back in the back at the DQ cooking/etc.

I think you overrate depending on vs how many work a particular field.

Silence! In Steves world only mexicans and blacks do that kind of work. White people demonize others while doing everything they can to keep the black man down!


Stereo types make good talking points, little else...


And yes, I see your point.
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post #26 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 04:34 PM
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Silence! In Steves world only mexicans and blacks do that kind of work. White people demonize others while doing everything they can to keep the black man down!


Stereo types make good talking points, little else...


And yes, I see your point.
Judgemental much? This is why I usually avoid this forum. Too many people trying to prove they know more then someone else and bashing rather then having a discussion.
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post #27 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 04:39 PM
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Judgemental much? This is why I usually avoid this forum. Too many people trying to prove they know more then someone else and bashing rather then having a discussion.
than

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post #28 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 04:46 PM
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than
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post #29 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 05:59 PM
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Don't worry, it is way too expensive politically to say they will bail out California right now. Give it a few months, let the media put out story after story of how little Juan is starving to death because the state cut off his illegal mom's benefits. After a little of that they will let California raid the treasury. Don't get me wrong, I hope there is total anarchy and dirtbags are shot down in the streets but it just isn't going to happen.
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post #30 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 06:00 PM
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Judgemental much?
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LOL, typical DFWstangs.
judgmental, not judgemental
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post #31 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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Don't worry, it is way too expensive politically to say they will bail out California right now. Give it a few months, let the media put out story after story of how little Juan is starving to death because the state cut off his illegal mom's benefits. After a little of that they will let California raid the treasury. Don't get me wrong, I hope there is total anarchy and dirtbags are shot down in the streets but it just isn't going to happen.
Dammit AL, let a man dream..

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post #32 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 06:43 PM
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LOL, typical DFWstangs.
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post #33 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 08:27 PM
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Ive always loved how on applications it asks, are you a US citizen or do you have a LEGAL right to work in the this country. Why ask if it means nothing?

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #34 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 08:29 PM
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Sounds like a recipe for allowing the rich to amass wealth by forcing their underpaid workforce to be subsidized by government programs. I'm not in favor of it. Everyone should work for a decent, fair wage.
I mostly agree with you, but be prepared, strawberries & lettuce harvested by whites.......will cost you $5 a head for lettuce and $10 a quart for strawberries.
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post #35 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 08:48 PM
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I mostly agree with you, but be prepared, strawberries & lettuce harvested by whites.......will cost you $5 a head for lettuce and $10 a quart for strawberries.
That's fine. Some of the main problems with the economy have to do with people not being willing to pay what goods are really worth. That's why we have a system that supports so much illegal immigration.

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post #36 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 08:54 PM
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Not trying to be funny here, but as a California native, I will tell you that Cali is dependent on them to run on a daily basis. From the normal massive lawn care, the biggest fast food employers, the numerous strawberry and orange fields to be picked that help run Cali's economy.
As cali's unemployment rises I expect that they will have less trouble filling those jobs with the newly unemployed, especially as the newly unemployed adjust their job expectations to what jobs are available.
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post #37 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 09:04 PM
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As cali's unemployment rises I expect that they will have less trouble filling those jobs with the newly unemployed, especially as the newly unemployed adjust their job expectations to what jobs are available.
...and especially if they drop their welfare programs.

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post #38 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 09:19 PM
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...and especially if they drop their welfare programs.
Yep. There is about to be a new jobs reality in cali LOL......
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post #39 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 10:03 PM
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Yep. There is about to be a new jobs reality in cali LOL......
I wouldnt limit it to only california, i think the whole country is going to go the same route in some way. Well people have said for years that people live beyond their means, they are about to see that change be forced upon them.

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post #40 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 10:46 PM
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I mostly agree with you, but be prepared, strawberries & lettuce harvested by whites.......will cost you $5 a head for lettuce and $10 a quart for strawberries.

Oh yeah absolutely! Life without illegals who kill our country by abusing things like healthcare and the welfare system will result in waaaay higher prices on things like produce.

Question: If you eliminate those drags on our economy, at what point are the savings reflected in pricing? My bet is that it would be a wash and your idealistic POV is FOS...
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post #41 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 10:52 PM
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As cali's unemployment rises I expect that they will have less trouble filling those jobs with the newly unemployed, especially as the newly unemployed adjust their job expectations to what jobs are available.
Perhaps. But typically they come here for the jobs us americans are too proud to do.


So what's the answer for California? If Cali doesn't get federal help, what's the scenario they are looking at? I don't know enough about this to even give a guess to it.
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post #42 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKD View Post
Perhaps. But typically they come here for the jobs us americans are too proud to do.


So what's the answer for California? If Cali doesn't get federal help, what's the scenario they are looking at? I don't know enough about this to even give a guess to it.
Not too proud, they cant live on shit ass wages. Mexicans can cause they dont pay taxes and live 10 people in an apartment. They are only here for the money tree, exactly the type of people we dont need or want. We want people that want to be a part of AMERICA and contribute to our country, not the shithole they are running away from. I dont get it, america is made up of immigrants from all over the world but they have turned the backs on their countries of origin and said " We are americans now" Mexicans want to get all the benefits of being american and still claim to be mexicans. Either youre an american or youre not, if not GTFO

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post #43 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKD View Post
Perhaps. But typically they come here for the jobs us americans are too proud to do.


So what's the answer for California? If Cali doesn't get federal help, what's the scenario they are looking at? I don't know enough about this to even give a guess to it.
They've already gotten federal help! It's not like they're a contributor state like Texas, they couldn't be if they tried.

Give me a dollar.
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post #44 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKD View Post
Perhaps. But typically they come here for the jobs us americans are too proud to do.


So what's the answer for California? If Cali doesn't get federal help, what's the scenario they are looking at? I don't know enough about this to even give a guess to it.
I keep hearing about jobs that americans are too proud to do.

When your kids are hungry and your rent is due, a different reality is thrust upon you.

I believe that a lot of americans are facing a version of this reality today.

That's why I think that the jobs that the mexicans previously did may be appealing to some folks. Hell, my grandparents picked lettuce and did other shit jobs back in the day, because they HAD TO.
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post #45 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-30-2009, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by AL P View Post
Don't worry, it is way too expensive politically to say they will bail out California right now. Give it a few months, let the media put out story after story of how little Juan is starving to death because the state cut off his illegal mom's benefits. After a little of that they will let California raid the treasury. Don't get me wrong, I hope there is total anarchy and dirtbags are shot down in the streets but it just isn't going to happen.
By dirtbags, do you mean politicians?

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #46 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-30-2009, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKD View Post
Perhaps. But typically they come here for the jobs us americans are too proud to do.


So what's the answer for California? If Cali doesn't get federal help, what's the scenario they are looking at? I don't know enough about this to even give a guess to it.
Steve - if Mere lost her job and you were forced to go back to work, would you be to proud to do anything to feed your beautiful daughter and your loving wife?

You would shovel shit 14 hours a day if it meant providing for your family.
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post #47 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-30-2009, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
I keep hearing about jobs that americans are too proud to do.

When your kids are hungry and your rent is due, a different reality is thrust upon you.

I believe that a lot of americans are facing a version of this reality today.

That's why I think that the jobs that the mexicans previously did may be appealing to some folks. Hell, my grandparents picked lettuce and did other shit jobs back in the day, because they HAD TO.
This is correct.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. The price of produce would go up. The price of landscaping would go up. The wages would have to be higher. But the amount of money acceptable to the average white boy would have to come down too. Where it would rest is anyone's guess. I don't think a head of lettuce is going to cost $10 anytime soon though.
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post #48 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-30-2009, 10:13 AM
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Just absorb the state into parts of Nevada, Arizona and Oregon. Problem solved. Sure, we'd have to alter the flag a bit, but it's obvious that the government of California can't do squat.

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post #49 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-30-2009, 12:10 PM
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I know if I had to go back to work to make ends meet, I'll flip burgers at McDonalds if I have to
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post #50 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-30-2009, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate View Post
Steve - if Mere lost her job and you were forced to go back to work, would you be to proud to do anything to feed your beautiful daughter and your loving wife?

You would shovel shit 14 hours a day if it meant providing for your family.
Of course, you are correct. I'd hate having to shovel shit, but I'd do it to provide.
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