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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-23-2009, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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I learned something new today..... And it

Un-nerved me a lot. Assuming all of this is true. I'll bet it un-nerves you to.


I could give a crap about most of this vid. But pay attention to the speeker when he mentions Hillory Clinton.

http://freepeopleontheland.wordpress...obal-elites-2/

It seems the reason China is so into buying our debt, is because, if we default, they own us lock stock and barrel.



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
Honor is not something given to you by way of job, or title.

Honor is learned, earned, practiced and respected by all decent men and women.
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-23-2009, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by tazz007 View Post
Un-nerved me a lot. Assuming all of this is true. I'll bet it un-nerves you to.


I could give a crap about most of this vid. But pay attention to the speeker when he mentions Hillory Clinton.

http://freepeopleontheland.wordpress...obal-elites-2/

It seems the reason China is so into buying our debt, is because, if we default, they own us lock stock and barrel.
Just now learning about this? Been saying it for years, the country is BANKRUPT!! We have no money, once the world realizes it and figures out how to severe ties to the US the american people are screwed.

This is what allows socialism to spread, a captialist economy requires wealth in order to work, that money has been transfered mainly to china and hence they are becoming more capitialist while we become socialist. Except i dont believe china has changed one bit, the communists are still in complete control. Then we promised them american soil as payment for debts we cant pay, thats one thign more valuable than anything and one thing china needs to increase their empire. Even if they dont use eminent domain, people here are so broke they will sell it to the chinese who will buy it for nothing with wealth that was made originally in the US. Isnt that awesome?

Listen to a Ron Paul speech sometime, he has been screaming about it for awhile now. FIAT money is worthless and how it allowed the country to spend more than it makes. The problem is of course, when other countries want those loans repaid. Even though we knew it was fake, they didnt. Thats act of war shit right there.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 08:59 AM
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"The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower becomes the lender's slave" (Proverbs 22:7)
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 11:02 AM
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Think they will just ask for mineral rights of Alasaka, and some land to drill?

Doors Done Rite
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 01:31 PM
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I keep saying this, our government, the governments of the world, etc all forget about the American Spirit.

If we default and they 'own us' they are going to have one hell of a fight on their hands when it comes time to evict us.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 02:28 PM
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I keep saying this, our government, the governments of the world, etc all forget about the American Spirit.

If we default and they 'own us' they are going to have one hell of a fight on their hands when it comes time to evict us.
Yea i have no doubt that it will be a shit storm if they tried to use force. I dont think they will, i think ownership will silently trade hands and we will never know about it. If it did get nasty, we would be the pieces of shits refusing to pay our debts, the world could very easily take chinas side. This is why i bitch about the shit like obama does and giving money to other countries and fighting wars that dont absolutly have to be fought. We dont have the money for all that shit and it pushes us closer and closer to losing our country financially. People are so concerned about being attacked military that they totally forget about the other ways america can be destroyed.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 04:14 PM
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I agree with you.

Who knows the words to O Canada?

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 04:25 PM
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I'd like to see them collect on that debt.

When the US economy goes belly-up, the "investments" they've made in us will be near worthless anyway. They'll be taking whatever they can get as payment, just like credit companies are doing with card junkies today.

It's not like they're going to come over and claim the land as their sovereign right. I don't believe any military force can come halfway around the world and kick Americans out of their cities and homes. It's laughable actually.
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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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Just now learning about this?
Well, I'm ashamed to say..... Yeah. Up until recently, I was an ostrich, then briefly a sheeple. And now (according to the left) chicken little, and a terrorist.

All I know is I do not like whats going on, and I seriously, think the shit is about to hit the fan.



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
Honor is not something given to you by way of job, or title.

Honor is learned, earned, practiced and respected by all decent men and women.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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I'd like to see them collect on that debt.

When the US economy goes belly-up, the "investments" they've made in us will be near worthless anyway. They'll be taking whatever they can get as payment, just like credit companies are doing with card junkies today.

It's not like they're going to come over and claim the land as their sovereign right. I don't believe any military force can come halfway around the world and kick Americans out of their cities and homes. It's laughable actually.
OK. I can see this. But, tell me why any country would loan any other country any money without some guarantee? What would be a real consequence, if we did default?



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
Honor is not something given to you by way of job, or title.

Honor is learned, earned, practiced and respected by all decent men and women.
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 04:42 PM
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I'd like to see them collect on that debt.

When the US economy goes belly-up, the "investments" they've made in us will be near worthless anyway. They'll be taking whatever they can get as payment, just like credit companies are doing with card junkies today.

It's not like they're going to come over and claim the land as their sovereign right. I don't believe any military force can come halfway around the world and kick Americans out of their cities and homes. It's laughable actually.
They wont have to invade, im sure thats a last resort. They will buy the land or the ownership will be transfered without the common people knowing. Rich fucks dont care where they live, they can afford to go anywhere in the world. So if they sell all their property in the US to china, who cares? They already have investments in other parts of the world in markets that are looking to be the next big thing. China would love to have our land along with mexico.

I dont think any country would try attacking us for many decades. They will wait until we are very weak and they are strong with a sure chance of winning. China is pumping alot of that money they have gotten into their military, we did the exact same thing to get where we are. Now we are out of money, we need to do major cutbacks and they are growing their military at an insane rate. Im sure you have heard about how they are going to be the worlds super power, alot of people for some reason see this as a good thing. I dont know how thats a good thing for us, to me is signals the end of americas power and dominance.

Look at it this way, we have a awesome military that is very expensive. We cant even afford to have the military we do. That is proven by how much money we have to borrow to run the country every year. What happens when the loans run out and we cant fund that military? Cut backs big time, might be enough to weaken us to be attacked. Its scary shit, this country doesnt have a plan or a secure future. Thats what pisses me off, america hasnt been defeated or had its power removed in any forceful way. WTF happened? it was sold off and transferred off without the peoples consent.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 04:44 PM
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OK. I can see this. But, tell me why any country would loan any other country any money without some guarantee? What would be a real consequence, if we did default?
exactly, nobody loans money with gaining something in most cases. We can not trust the chinese. I suspect they are counting on us not being able to repay them. They are traveling the world making deals with alot of countries that are hostile to the US aswell. They have ALOT of allies in south america, thats in our backyard!

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 04:46 PM
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They wont have to invade, im sure thats a last resort. They will buy the land or the ownership will be transfered without the common people knowing. Rich fucks dont care where they live, they can afford to go anywhere in the world. So if they sell all their property in the US to china, who cares? They already have investments in other parts of the world in markets that are looking to be the next big thing. China would love to have our land along with mexico.

I dont think any country would try attacking us for many decades. They will wait until we are very weak and they are strong with a sure chance of winning. China is pumping alot of that money they have gotten into their military, we did the exact same thing to get where we are. Now we are out of money, we need to do major cutbacks and they are growing their military at an insane rate. Im sure you have heard about how they are going to be the worlds super power, alot of people for some reason see this as a good thing. I dont know how thats a good thing for us, to me is signals the end of americas power and dominance.

Look at it this way, we have a awesome military that is very expensive. We cant even afford to have the military we do. That is proven by how much money we have to borrow to run the country every year. What happens when the loans run out and we cant fund that military? Cut backs big time, might be enough to weaken us to be attacked. Its scary shit, this country doesnt have a plan or a secure future. Thats what pisses me off, america hasnt been defeated or had its power removed in any forceful way. WTF happened? it was sold off and transferred off without the peoples consent.
I don't think the cost of the military is the issue with affording it, it's all the bullshit earmarks and social programs that make the government have to borrow cash every year.

Edit. I haven't done any research into how much we spend on the military vs. other programs.
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 04:50 PM
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Well, I'm ashamed to say..... Yeah. Up until recently, I was an ostrich, then briefly a sheeple. And now (according to the left) chicken little, and a terrorist.

All I know is I do not like whats going on, and I seriously, think the shit is about to hit the fan.
Oh dont worry. Ive been called a liberal and democrat which is the stupidest shit ever. The stuff i talk about is taken the wrong way by people because they refuse to believe that the country is in big trouble. Im just not afraid to talk about and i guess alot of people want to think nothing could ever happen to the US. This country would never fall if the people who loved it were in control, they arent and what we are seeing is the result.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 04:58 PM
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I don't think the cost of the military is the issue with affording it, it's all the bullshit earmarks and social programs that make the government have to borrow cash every year.

Edit. I haven't done any research into how much we spend on the military vs. other programs.
http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

heres a chart i found real quick. Ive heard several times that our military is our biggest expense. Having the worlds most advanced military cant be anything but outrageously expensive. I have no problem having a badass military, i want the guys in the military to be taken care of but the question i have is how in the fuck do you afford it when you allowed your source of income to be taken away?

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 05:01 PM
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OK. I can see this. But, tell me why any country would loan any other country any money without some guarantee? What would be a real consequence, if we did default?
There isn't a gurantee, they are investing in an asset with AAA rating with very low risk of default. Excluding a few investments (TIPS ect), a majority of the debt could be "inflated away" without default.

I'm not arguing against fiscal responsibility, but the fact is, this debt has leveraged the most powerful country and economy in the world. China needs the US, our economy and growth is key for their continued prosperity.

"Apres moi le deluge"


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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 08:19 PM
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Zomg, so Japan wanted to own us until September of 2008.
I guess that, beginning in Q2 of 2009, China has decided against its strategy of taking complete control of the United States.
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 10:30 PM
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I agree with you.

Who knows the words to O Canada?
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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-2009, 10:50 PM
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http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

heres a chart i found real quick. Ive heard several times that our military is our biggest expense. Having the worlds most advanced military cant be anything but outrageously expensive. I have no problem having a badass military, i want the guys in the military to be taken care of but the question i have is how in the fuck do you afford it when you allowed your source of income to be taken away?
The military is necessary, no doubt about it. What I was getting at was the fact that social programs eat a lot of cash. In my experience with those types of people they don't want to do anything about their situation therefore will remain on said programs until they are dead, or the system kicks them out. If we were to cut out a lot of the waste from social programs the military funding problem would fix itself.
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-25-2009, 12:10 AM
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The military is necessary, no doubt about it. What I was getting at was the fact that social programs eat a lot of cash. In my experience with those types of people they don't want to do anything about their situation therefore will remain on said programs until they are dead, or the system kicks them out. If we were to cut out a lot of the waste from social programs the military funding problem would fix itself.
There are alot of people who really are just worthless. There are also alot of people who will work but wont/cant go to school. Only 20 something percent of the country has a college degree. I think alot of these people would be fine working in a factory, making something the country could sell to fund the military if we actually had the jobs. Time to end the one sided trade agreements, people to stop saying that manufacturing jobs are for monkeys, and put people back to fucking work. This idea that america is going to become some super educated college degree population is stupid. That sounds more like snobbish ass europeans that think they are better than us but got schooled by the US more than a few times with our uneducated asses. I saw nothing wrong with how the country was. It should be america manfufacturing the worlds big screen tvs, cell phones and consumer technology. Im tired of hearing about asian countries coming out with the lastest thing everybody wants, why not the US?


John Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock

(MADE IN JAPAN ) for 6 am.

While his coffeepot

(MADE IN CHINA )

was perking, he shaved with his

electric razor

(MADE IN HONG KONG )

He put on a

dress shirt

(MADE IN SRI LANKA ),

designer jeans

(MADE IN SINGAPORE )

and

tennis shoes

(MADE IN KOREA)

After cooking his breakfast in his new

electric skillet

(MADE IN INDIA )

he sat down with his

calculator

(MADE IN MEXICO )

to see how much he could spend today. After setting his

watch

(MADE IN TAIWAN )

to the radio

(MADE IN INDIA )

he got in his car

(MADE IN GERMANY )

filled it with GAS

(from Saudi Arabia )

and continued his search

for a good paying AMERICAN JOB.

At the end of yet another discouraging

and fruitless day

checking his

Computer

(made in MALAYSIA ),

John decided to relax for a while.

He put on his sandals

(MADE IN BRAZIL ),

poured himself a glass of

wine

(MADE IN FRANCE )

and turned on his

TV

(MADE IN INDONESIA ),

and then wondered why he can't

find a good paying job

in AMERICA

AND NOW HE'S HOPING HE CAN GET HELP FROM A PRESIDENT....MADE IN KENYA

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-25-2009, 12:48 AM
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"The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower becomes the lender's slave" (Proverbs 22:7)
*consensual nod*
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-25-2009, 09:26 AM
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There are alot of people who really are just worthless. There are also alot of people who will work but wont/cant go to school. Only 20 something percent of the country has a college degree. I think alot of these people would be fine working in a factory, making something the country could sell to fund the military if we actually had the jobs. Time to end the one sided trade agreements, people to stop saying that manufacturing jobs are for monkeys, and put people back to fucking work. This idea that america is going to become some super educated college degree population is stupid. That sounds more like snobbish ass europeans that think they are better than us but got schooled by the US more than a few times with our uneducated asses. I saw nothing wrong with how the country was. It should be america manfufacturing the worlds big screen tvs, cell phones and consumer technology. Im tired of hearing about asian countries coming out with the lastest thing everybody wants, why not the US?
When the free market is in action, it's truly a remarkable thing. Companies can manufacture parts cheaply from all across the world and bring them together to make a reliable and cheep product for consumers. Think how efficient and complex our system is. Think about the choices you have when you want goods. This isn't by the making of a government forced, one country market, but by a free market economy. The free market allows competition to keep prices low while still giving consumers the choice of product to buy.

Forcing all manufacturing to US soil wouldn't bring jobs to America, much less high paying ones. Your John Smith analogy doesnít make sense when you look at it in this light. John could have bought an American made clock, razor, etc, and paid twice as much if he chooses to do so. He bought what he wanted. He wasn't forced to purchase foreign made goods; he had a choice.

Purchasing foreign goods don't help just foreign manufacturing companies, but American ones, too, such as retail and distribution companies, and so on.
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-25-2009, 09:57 AM
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When the free market is in action, it's truly a remarkable thing. Companies can manufacture parts cheaply from all across the world and bring them together to make a reliable and cheep product for consumers. Think how efficient and complex our system is. Think about the choices you have when you want goods. This isn't by the making of a government forced, one country market, but by a free market economy. The free market allows competition to keep prices low while still giving consumers the choice of product to buy.

Forcing all manufacturing to US soil wouldn't bring jobs to America, much less high paying ones. Your John Smith analogy doesn’t make sense when you look at it in this light. John could have bought an American made clock, razor, etc, and paid twice as much if he chooses to do so. He bought what he wanted. He wasn't forced to purchase foreign made goods; he had a choice.

Purchasing foreign goods don't help just foreign manufacturing companies, but American ones, too, such as retail and distribution companies, and so on.
ditto

To add; The freemarket is still restrained by the laws and regulation of the countries... In the US, labor laws, EPA, ect have helped to force manufacturing overseas. For the most part its no longer cost effective to manufacture in the US, and we're better off for it. Look at china, its one of the most polluted countries in the world, and the standard of living is still miles behind the US. Before the recession US unemployment was near rock bottom, and we've enjoyed consistant growth of our national GDP for years, obviously loosing manufacturing jobs to other countries hasn't hurt us too bad.

"Apres moi le deluge"


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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-25-2009, 10:43 AM
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I forgot how dumb that song is. Fuck.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-25-2009, 09:13 PM
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When the free market is in action, it's truly a remarkable thing. Companies can manufacture parts cheaply from all across the world and bring them together to make a reliable and cheep product for consumers. Think how efficient and complex our system is. Think about the choices you have when you want goods. This isn't by the making of a government forced, one country market, but by a free market economy. The free market allows competition to keep prices low while still giving consumers the choice of product to buy.

Forcing all manufacturing to US soil wouldn't bring jobs to America, much less high paying ones. Your John Smith analogy doesnít make sense when you look at it in this light. John could have bought an American made clock, razor, etc, and paid twice as much if he chooses to do so. He bought what he wanted. He wasn't forced to purchase foreign made goods; he had a choice.

Purchasing foreign goods don't help just foreign manufacturing companies, but American ones, too, such as retail and distribution companies, and so on.

I see dry wall with sulfur, lead paint on childrens toys and steel products that break in your hand due to low nickel content. All being made by workers in horribly unsafe and nasty conditions being paid slave wages and the US as a country takes part in it. All of this stuff was prevented in the US with our laws and regulations.

You dont have a choice on where a product is made, either ya by something from china....or taiwan. Everyone knows that just about everything you buy wasnt made in america, thats a fact. Start paying attention to where stuff is actually made regardless if its an "american" company. Americans had nice things before the globalzation took over. America had all the capabilty and all the money, thats how we got to the top. Any suprize that without those things america starts circling the drain?

All that it has done is put hard working americans out of work, made rich fucks even more rich and allowed countries hostile to the US to build a manufacturing base and wealth that will at some point surpass the US. You are all happy we get cheap goods, what is the true price of those cheap goods when you look at the national debt? Not so cheap is it? They are hooking us up and they are building on their future investment which is the new land they bought from us for giving us those cheap tvs and cell phones. Either we start turning a profit as a country or we do MAJOR MAJOR cutback to our spending that reflects the loss of revenue generating capabilty we gave up. This includes being the world police, time to hand that job off to china since they can afford it better than we can....oh wait, you dont want that to happen do you? Not so faithful in that communist ass country? Why are we giving them shit again?

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-25-2009, 10:39 PM
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....Only 20 something percent of the country has a college degree. ....

Seriously? Holy shit!


Anyone have a link as to the exact percentage?

If that is accurate I would have to say that this is a crying damned shame, considering the institutions we have at our disposal.
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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-26-2009, 12:53 AM
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ditto

To add; The freemarket is still restrained by the laws and regulation of the countries... In the US, labor laws, EPA, ect have helped to force manufacturing overseas. For the most part its no longer cost effective to manufacture in the US, and we're better off for it. Look at china, its one of the most polluted countries in the world, and the standard of living is still miles behind the US. Before the recession US unemployment was near rock bottom, and we've enjoyed consistant growth of our national GDP for years, obviously loosing manufacturing jobs to other countries hasn't hurt us too bad.
The US manufacturing base made the country strong, and provided many blue collar jobs. This made for a healthy middle class.

Now that we have no manufacturing capacity due to offshoring, the country is weak, and the aforementioned middle class people are out of work. Not everyone can/wants to go to college and get some high powered financial degree and go work on wall street .... oh wait, that shit hit the fan also.

Even the CEO of GE acknowledges that GE getting out of the manufacturing business and more into financial services was a mistake, and that the US needs to be making stuff.

How strong can a country be when the people there simply push pieces of paper around and create "weath"? We call it financial services, but a lot of people see it as a house of cards.

We have ceded our future to the chinese because we don't make anything here on our shores anymore.

Sooner or later our new masters are going to come calling, and we have nothing to give to them except our land and our souls.
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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-26-2009, 01:00 AM
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Seriously? Holy shit!


Anyone have a link as to the exact percentage?

If that is accurate I would have to say that this is a crying damned shame, considering the institutions we have at our disposal.
well the source will vary but its usually around 20-30% that have an actual degree. Course you could also get into weither or not that degree is actually useful.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_perce...r's_degree

when you look at the facts you realize why flicking the switch on shipping jobs out of country that dont require a degree was a bad idea. They basically just put atleast half the country out of work and there isnt enough jobs out there for that many people with degrees. Plus, even if there were, those jobs pay rates will drop drastically, supply and demand works here too.

Also what about ole jose with 7 kids? he may work his ass off but honestly, he cant afford to put all those kids in school so our blue collar workforce will continue to increase as mexicans poor across the border and squirt out kids they cant afford.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-26-2009, 01:03 AM
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The US manufacturing base made the country strong, and provided many blue collar jobs. This made for a healthy middle class.

Now that we have no manufacturing capacity due to offshoring, the country is weak, and the aforementioned middle class people are out of work. Not everyone can/wants to go to college and get some high powered financial degree and go work on wall street .... oh wait, that shit hit the fan also.

Even the CEO of GE acknowledges that GE getting out of the manufacturing business and more into financial services was a mistake, and that the US needs to be making stuff.

How strong can a country be when the people there simply push pieces of paper around and create "weath"? We call it financial services, but a lot of people see it as a house of cards.

We have ceded our future to the chinese because we don't make anything here on our shores anymore.

Sooner or later our new masters are going to come calling, and we have nothing to give to them except our land and our souls.
exactly! house of cards is a good term to use. All they have to do is cut the money off and then what happens to america? Good bye! We arent even talking about the fact of the skills and craftsmenship that has been lost. We had some of the worlds best craftsmen here since they all came to america where they were would be most useful and now they have had to turn away from their trades to survive. Its gonna take decades to get that back.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 11:59 AM
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I see dry wall with sulfur, lead paint on childrens toys and steel products that break in your hand due to low nickel content. All being made by workers in horribly unsafe and nasty conditions being paid slave wages and the US as a country takes part in it. All of this stuff was prevented in the US with our laws and regulations.

You dont have a choice on where a product is made, either ya by something from china....or taiwan. Everyone knows that just about everything you buy wasnt made in america, thats a fact. Start paying attention to where stuff is actually made regardless if its an "american" company. Americans had nice things before the globalzation took over. America had all the capabilty and all the money, thats how we got to the top. Any suprize that without those things america starts circling the drain?

All that it has done is put hard working americans out of work, made rich fucks even more rich and allowed countries hostile to the US to build a manufacturing base and wealth that will at some point surpass the US. You are all happy we get cheap goods, what is the true price of those cheap goods when you look at the national debt? Not so cheap is it? They are hooking us up and they are building on their future investment which is the new land they bought from us for giving us those cheap tvs and cell phones. Either we start turning a profit as a country or we do MAJOR MAJOR cutback to our spending that reflects the loss of revenue generating capabilty we gave up. This includes being the world police, time to hand that job off to china since they can afford it better than we can....oh wait, you dont want that to happen do you? Not so faithful in that communist ass country? Why are we giving them shit again?
So....buying less cheep toys and metal will save our econ? BRILLIANT!!!

I was going to type up a nice response to this, but I get the feeling that you are a Ron Paul nut case and there probably is no hope in us agreeing on this issue. That stuff in BOLD comes straight from Ron Paul's nutty mouth.
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post #31 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-29-2009, 12:14 PM
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So....buying less cheep toys and metal will save our econ? BRILLIANT!!!

I was going to type up a nice response to this, but I get the feeling that you are a Ron Paul nut case and there probably is no hope in us agreeing on this issue. That stuff in BOLD comes straight from Ron Paul's nutty mouth.
Good thing we have those cheap toys, with no jobs we cant afford much else. Course apparently we cant afford the cheap toys either since we are bankrupt as a nation. Ive been saying this stuff for years, way before ron paul was public about it. You think america needs china and its cheap products to survive, sorry if i think america is capable of better.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #32 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 08:03 AM
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Good thing we have those cheap toys, with no jobs we cant afford much else. Course apparently we cant afford the cheap toys either since we are bankrupt as a nation. Ive been saying this stuff for years, way before ron paul was public about it. You think america needs china and its cheap products to survive, sorry if i think america is capable of better.
I wasn't going to bother responding to this, but you and other Ron Paul nutters just don't understand. It's not cheap products that's killing jobs. And the answer is not Isolationism. Look how well isolation worked for East Germany. Look at NoKo. Look at Cuba. Did/is isolationism work/ing for them? And the list goes on and on, yet you and others think that this is the path back to greatness?? Please show me where this theory has ever worked for America.
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post #33 of 33 (permalink) Old 07-01-2009, 11:54 AM
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I wasn't going to bother responding to this, but you and other Ron Paul nutters just don't understand. It's not cheap products that's killing jobs. And the answer is not Isolationism. Look how well isolation worked for East Germany. Look at NoKo. Look at Cuba. Did/is isolationism work/ing for them? And the list goes on and on, yet you and others think that this is the path back to greatness?? Please show me where this theory has ever worked for America.
I didnt say we had to be isolationist. We need to reimpletement tariffs on imported goods. Thats how the system is supposed to work. Without a system to balance out the price on bringing cheaply made imported goods into this country whats to stop companies from firing there higher paid american workers and shipping the stuff back here? NOTHING, it equals more profit for them and gives china a strong middle class and manufactuing base that will come in handy next war they are in. Europe taxes goods from other countries, guess why? You wanna talk about not being able to compete, we cant compete with dirt cheap labor. People here are going to be jobless no matter how smart or hard working they are because unless you just have to be here, alot of jobs can be done else where. At first they said it would only be low paying blue collar jobs, they have been taking a ton of engineering jobs and white collar jobs now aswell. Suprize suprize, it had a MUCH greater effect than the government thought it would.

China used to be on a blacklist for being communist and the fact they are responsible for way more americans being killed than sept 11, or did you forget that? Directly or indirectly they are responsible for tens of thousands of americans being killed. Plus they are communists, everything america is against. Right now people there dont get to vote at all, the government censors everything as they see fit and now they want to install monitoring software on everyones computer. Not to mention the unsafe working standards, low product quality and no regualtions on what can and cannot be used. They also steal and conunterfeit the only thing we do produce, entertainment. They have shops on street corners selling illegal copies of music movies and video games. The people here get sued and they do nothing about the source of the problem, wanna know why? Cause china told the US to go fuck themselves basically. Its completely out in the open and nothing has been done about it cause they dont care.

Chinese news always talks about great their country is doing, how chinese are getting to buy their first car. Look a pictures of chinese cities, you will see KFC and McDonalds and lil asians driving Buicks, its a parody of american life. They have our money and lifestyle while this country becomes more socialists and is destroyed. Im sure you think china needs the US since we are the worlds largest economy. What happens when we arent, which we are also losing to them. They are the worlds 3rd largest economy, well on their way to being the 2nd largest, think its gonna stop there?

Seeing real american companies which are a part of being america, have to shut down plants that have been here for decades. This is the future of america?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26531610/
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0926-03.htm

Alot of people for some reason cant see that america is going down on the world charts other than military power which i feel will at some point follow. They are living on Americas past glory, rightly so, we used to have it all. We dont produce anything useful, we are a debtor nation now. Thats pretty fucking sad since we used to be the most productive nation in the world.




Heres a something i got from somewhere that explains it aswell



To say that closing "loopholes" is unfair to global competition is ridiculous. Right now the US has one of the lowest corporate Effective Tax rates in the world. And Corporate america has found ways to change the tax code in its favor, and in those instances where they couldn't change it, they found ways around it.

What corporate america has wanted for years, and has slowly gotten was an unfair advantage in the largest market in the world (the United States), while finding ways to get around, if not get completely out of any liability or costs for access to that marketplace. They want access to the american marketplace so they "base" their headquarters here for the advantages it gives them in importing their own products from their foreign based manufacturing (tariff free), yet they want the ability to base the operations off shore for the labor cost and tax advantages that it gives them.

They currently have their cake and are eating it to. What most fail to realize is that part of the cost of admission and access to the American marketplace is the employment of American workers. If you don't want to employ American workers, then you pay a tariff for access to the American marketplace. But over the course of the last 30-50 years, american corporations have found ways around the tariffs and around the taxes, and they arent even employing american workers for the most part. And somehow they have convinced some on the right that without these advantages they will fail. What we need to realize is first off thats bull*****, and secondly that even if individual companies fail, the industry does not. This is more about the protection of the who, not the what. The beauty of capitalism is that where one fails, their are 2 to take their place.

America corporation are the masters of PR. They use "global marketplace" when it fits their need/argument, and they use "american" when its fits the need/argument. And what we all need to realize is that without an american worker their is no american marketplace. Americans are shouldering more and more of the tax burdon for corporate america every day. Just look at what your local and state gubments are giving these companies so that they will "employ" people in your area. Hell in my city, the largest employer in the state pays NOTHING in local and state taxes so that they will stay here. But the downside is that they are one of the largest recipients of resources from the state and city. So who pays for that ? Well its me and you.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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