What about a hybrid type of governemnt? - DFWstangs Forums
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-21-2009, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
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What about a hybrid type of governemnt?

I know this would never happen in reality, unless perhaps some brand new country were established somewhere. Maybe if man ever colonizes other planets or something. But uh, everyone seems to hate socialism. Well, like anything it's got it's advantages and disadvantages. So what if you took all it's best elements, and combined them with the best elements of what we have here today. Say we had paid healthcare and all that jazz. But, we still kept our capitalist ways in every other aspect? I think that just cause you have some socialism, doesn't necessarily mean that you have to live under tyranical communist rule. I mean we already have to pay for old people's medicare, and social security. So we're not actually true capitalists, in reality. If we were, we would not help anyone who did not secure their future so that they could help themselves. Which would seem kind of mean but hey, why is it my fault that someone never went to college? A friend of mine from Canada says his that what they take out of his check every paycheck is about $78. Now ain't I already paying $35 per check for freaking medicare? I think i could muster the other funds for free freaking healthcare. Thoughts?

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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-21-2009, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by justinsn95 View Post
I know this would never happen in reality, unless perhaps some brand new country were established somewhere. Maybe if man ever colonizes other planets or something. But uh, everyone seems to hate socialism. Well, like anything it's got it's advantages and disadvantages. So what if you took all it's best elements, and combined them with the best elements of what we have here today. Say we had paid healthcare and all that jazz. But, we still kept our capitalist ways in every other aspect? I think that just cause you have some socialism, doesn't necessarily mean that you have to live under tyranical communist rule. I mean we already have to pay for old people's medicare, and social security. A friend of mine from Canada says his that what they take out of his check every month is about $68. Now ain't I already paying $35 per check for freaking medicare? I think i could muster the other funds for free freaking healthcare. Thoughts?
The problem is when you actually need to go to the doctor and it takes two weeks to get in... You need a specialist, it takes 6 months. Right now wait times in US hospitals is already bad, just imagine how much worse it will be when everyone in the US goes for every cough or sniffle.

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-21-2009, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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I would set up some kind of system where there were no coughs or sniffles allowed. You get like 1 or 2 of those per year, and they keep you in a database. If you excede the amount, then they know you are a pussy and you pay your own way till next year rolls around. That would make people say "Shit i better not go unless i really need it". And this (not this policy specifically) general way of thinking could be made to cover most if not all of the problems that might come with it. Anytime there is room for abuse, or any other little problem, just set something up that solves it. Like this policy would help to solve the problem that you mentioned. I mean hell, people still get treated even now, even if it's not an emergency. Take cancer people for example.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-22-2009, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by justinsn95 View Post
I know this would never happen in reality, unless perhaps some brand new country were established somewhere. Maybe if man ever colonizes other planets or something. But uh, everyone seems to hate socialism. Well, like anything it's got it's advantages and disadvantages. So what if you took all it's best elements, and combined them with the best elements of what we have here today. Say we had paid healthcare and all that jazz. But, we still kept our capitalist ways in every other aspect? I think that just cause you have some socialism, doesn't necessarily mean that you have to live under tyranical communist rule. I mean we already have to pay for old people's medicare, and social security. So we're not actually true capitalists, in reality. If we were, we would not help anyone who did not secure their future so that they could help themselves. Which would seem kind of mean but hey, why is it my fault that someone never went to college? A friend of mine from Canada says his that what they take out of his check every paycheck is about $78. Now ain't I already paying $35 per check for freaking medicare? I think i could muster the other funds for free freaking healthcare. Thoughts?

The fuck we don't! What would be a better system is instead of giving that money to the government to distribute it to the leeches regardless of if the payer (you and I) use the healthcare system or not, put that 35 bucks (or whatever amount) into a separate health care savings style account. That way it's your own money to use as often as you want, but only up until the point that it's gone. Abuse it, you're fucked. Save it for when you break an arm or something, and you'll have a nice chunk of change there for when you need it. I would be much more willing to choose to put 50 bucks a week or so into a medical account that only I would have access to, and make it so that it can only be used for medical issues. Kinda of like how they set up food stamp cards that only pay for food, but if you've got non-food items on the bill, they get paid for in cash.

Apply the same idea to Social Security. Yeah, as of right now the old bastards collecting would be fucked since the gov't fucked it away and didnt do a large account for them to pay into, but it would be a much better system. Take the couple thousand bucks a year that we pay per year and put in an interest-building account that you can access when you feel like retiring. Kinda like an IRA but without the huge ass penalties to access your money. Sure, if you need it for emergencies before retirement, i suppose it would be accessible, but not without a bunch of paperwork and shit. Regardless of the smaller details, i think it's a much better idea, and you dont have to be pissed about people leeching off of your money, and if all the money you've paid into the system for your entire life will be available when you're ready for it. Goes back to that whole "I worked hard for this money, get your hands off my shit" idea.

Bottom line... you work for it and pay into it, you can have the benefits. Dont work? you're fucked pal!

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-22-2009, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah that works till you have $35K in there, and you need a $90K heard surgery or something super expensive. My grandfather had that surgery where they replaced his heart valve with one of those titanium artificial ones. It totaled $107K. That alone would have sucked down every last dime if he had paid in his whole life. Now what about the motorcycle wreck he had when he was 30? Oh, and what about when he gets older, and needs even more medical care? Well under your plan he has no money left, even though he paid in his entire life like he was told to do. Point is, by the last years of your life, when you needed that money the most, it would already be spent on something else. And i agree that too many people leech. Cut those out of the equation, cause i would set something up to determine if they were leeching. Wouldn't be that hard. A simple job history check, (done via SSN) and build a database on each person's medical history.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-22-2009, 02:57 PM
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Yeah, it would suck to need a heart transplant or some other form of expensive ass surgery, but do you honestly expect every other tax payer to pay for it if you need it? Medical care isnt something that is owed to you. its a service that's available to you if you can afford it. I'm positive that doctors and shit can set up payment plans for medical bills too. I may sound cruel and coldhearted, but that's the bottom line.

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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-22-2009, 05:28 PM
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So basically if you get sick and need some expensive ass medical care you should just die. How unamerican of you, sounds like what happens in most parts of the world. Just cause right now you are ok dont think that something bad cant or wont happen to you. Unless people go out and start intentionally hurting themselves i dont see a problem with the system. Its not perfect but it works, the problem is the cost of the care and drugs thats insane.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-22-2009, 05:53 PM
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Where did i say that if you get sick you can't still go the hospital or a doctor and get treated? I'm saying that just because your neighbor is sick doesnt mean that you get his bill, which is the current system.

Consider this: If all these people going to the hospital for a headache or a stubbed toe would have to pay for the service, they wouldnt go as often. Less people in the doctors office or hospital means quicker, better service for those who actually have a good reason to be there.

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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-22-2009, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
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And illegal immigrants should get nothing unless they were at deaths door. NOTHING. Sorry your country sucks. Change it. We did. You can too. Sure a few people are going to die, but that's the way it goes when overthrowing a corrupt government. But uh, you take it as a given that any government program has to be less efficient than any private program. Not true. Medicare provides care in a more cost effective way than private insurance. Much of that has to do with the fact that the government is a large enough consumer of medical services that it has major clout in negotiating rates for services and drugs.

The free market really can't work in the medical realm for several reasons. There is no competition for doctor's salaries because the supply of doctors is limited by the medical school/licensing process. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Just saying it's not compatible with competitive free markets.

Hospitals don't charge what a given patient incurs as costs. They charge a fee that will cover the expenses of the uninsured who end up in emergency rooms (the most expensive care possible) instead of receiving preventive care which is much much cheaper. But we don't want them to have that care because we are afraid they will get something for free. Instead, we make them get seriously ill and then have to pay much more for care.

The fact that most payments are third party separates the suppliers from the consumers. That breaks down the supply demand model.

I think the strangest assumption of the anti-government health care model is that a public program will be wasteful because people will consume services they don't need. How strange. I think I will go in and get a liver biopsy because it's free? I don't think so. Most medical procedures are very unpleasant. Not like eating more steak because you can get it for free. Doctors currently may provide unnecessary services because they get paid more if they do. But in a fixed salary system with cost controls, doctors will be motivated to resist un-needed services.

Last edited by justinsn95; 06-23-2009 at 12:16 AM.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-28-2009, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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Well what about this. What if, instead of socializing healthcare, they left it free enterprise but outlawed any and all forms of health insurance. Then just let it fall back down to reasonable prices without all those fags dictating everything.
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