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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 12:58 AM Thread Starter
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Pretty much explains it

the goverrnment does nothing to stop the outourcing of the middle classes source of income and then wonders why people are broke ... THEY HAVE NO GOOD PAYING JOBS JACKASSES!!! You cant buy a house, cars and send kids to college on 12-15 bucks an hour. Bring the jobs back and watch america pull itself out of the shitpile, no bailouts needed!!

http://amfix.blogs.cnn.com/2009/06/0...le-class-dead/

If they would have just protected the system we had in place america would be ok. You could earn a decent living if you werent a dumbass and were a decent worker. A college degree wasnt a requirement to be able to earn a living in america, that is what the american dream was!! College degrees had alot more value and were for people who wanted more. You can live better then majority of the population in alot of countries with a degree but only in america could a regular guy actually have a decent life. I believe this single act alone is 90% responsible for americas downfall. Job security and retirement are things of the past.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 09:32 AM
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but we are a capitalist country and a free market. our entire system is designed to favor the capitalist, this is the only country in the world where anyone rich or poor, with even a small amount of capital can start their own business, and live the American dream.

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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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but we are a capitalist country and a free market. our entire system is designed to favor the capitalist, this is the only country in the world where anyone rich or poor, with even a small amount of capital can start their own business, and live the American dream.
Let me tell ya a story. I had a job were i worked with this old man. He had a company that developed and sold driveway turntables, usually for rich folks of course. He made them by himself and was looking forward to his new business turning into a successful company.

It was well on its way to becoming just that. What will happen when the chinese as they have done numerous times already to american businesses, copy his product and sell it for a faction of his price? They are able to undercut him to the point that their is no reason for him to be in business. He cant afford to work for free much less pay any american worker a decent wage to live on.

The chinese have effectively destroyed his american dream by making the prospect of owning a successful business unprofitable. We cant compete with slave labor wages. He could have his products made in china of course which is exactly what they want. They have destroyed americas abilty to provide jobs and opporunity for its people.

Also, not everyone can be or is cut out to be a business owner. We need good paying jobs for the common person. Not everyone can own a business using mexican cheap labor or products made in china. We have a enormous population and need every single job we can get our hands on. Why do you think immigration has become such an issue? For decades we had too many jobs and not enough workers, immigrants were welcomed to come fill the holes left in the job markets and american citizens were worth alot more than they are now.

The free market works when all the players are on a even base. The chinese arent at all. There is no way an american worker can compete with slave wages. The only reason america has any jobs at all is that someone has to sell and service their junk and service jobs. This isnt enough for this country. You are seeing older people with degrees having to work high school kids jobs just to live a simple life. This isnt the american way. This is why i blame the government as a whole, they should have seen this coming when they allowed foreign companies to undercut american ones by such a large margin. I knew this would be the end of america when i kept reading about 100s of thousands of people being laid off when companies did "global restructing" Its bullshit. They did that either so that they can compete or because of greed. Both reasons leave americans jobless.

Now we have an unrepayable debt to china and are sitting on the one thing china wants more than anything, OUR LAND. They are going to buy america out from under us without a single shot fired. Our military has been rendered worthless and yet we as a nation continue to put ourselves in debt because of it while ignoring the true war we are in, the economic war and we are losing horribly.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.

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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Heres something someone else posted on another forum i go on.

"This is a laughable debate.

Look, we all agree that the tax burden in the US is WAAYYYYY to high, and needs to be addressed. And yes, if we cut spending that would help immensely. But lets look at it in the confines of TODAY. As long as individual americans pay their fair share of taxes, so should Corporate America.

To say that closing "loopholes" is unfair to global competition is ridiculous. Right now the US has one of the lowest corporate Effective Tax rates in the world. And Corporate america has found ways to change the tax code in its favor, and in those instances where they couldn't change it, they found ways around it.

What corporate america has wanted for years, and has slowly gotten was an unfair advantage in the largest market in the world (the United States), while finding ways to get around, if not get completely out of any liability or costs for access to that marketplace. They want access to the american marketplace so they "base" their headquarters here for the advantages it gives them in importing their own products from their foreign based manufacturing (tariff free), yet they want the ability to base the operations off shore for the labor cost and tax advantages that it gives them.

They currently have their cake and are eating it to. What most fail to realize is that part of the cost of admission and access to the American marketplace is the employment of American workers. If you don't want to employ American workers, then you pay a tariff for access to the American marketplace. But over the course of the last 30-50 years, american corporations have found ways around the tariffs and around the taxes, and they arent even employing american workers for the most part. And somehow they have convinced some on the right that without these advantages they will fail. What we need to realize is first off thats bull*****, and secondly that even if individual companies fail, the industry does not. This is more about the protection of the who, not the what. The beauty of capitalism is that where one fails, their are 2 to take their place.

America corporation are the masters of PR. They use "global marketplace" when it fits their need/argument, and they use "american" when its fits the need/argument. And what we all need to realize is that without an american worker their is no american marketplace. Americans are shouldering more and more of the tax burdon for corporate america every day. Just look at what your local and state gubments are giving these companies so that they will "employ" people in your area. Hell in my city, the largest employer in the state pays NOTHING in local and state taxes so that they will stay here. But the downside is that they are one of the largest recipients of resources from the state and city. So who pays for that ? Well its me and you.

I hear it all the time when people complain about america...if you dont like it leave", well corporate america...are you listening ?"

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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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Another thing, if it is indeed just capitalism and free markets at work, then can you expect to live on a couple hundred bucks a month? Afterall, the chinese do it and we HAVE to compete right?

The way its supposed to work, businesses employ american workers to make products to sell in the american market. If a foreign company wants to do buisness then they either need to build a factory here and employ our people or pay the tariffs that used to be there before shit like NAFTA came about.

Since an american company trying to sell products in china for example, they would need to do likewise since goods made in america would be too expensive for them. But if the goods were made in their country, by their own people at prices they can afford, it would be successful. This practice of taking the jobs out of america has left us broke.

Its about lowering the standard of life in america. Maybe thats entitlement, but as a nation we have done more for this world then anyone else so id say that was the reward for all the sacifices we have made. Otherwise, whats the point?

America was founded to be its own independent self suficient nation. This is what made us so powerful and what other countries want to destroy. They cant do shit aslong as the US remains powerful but people need to realize it isnt just about military action or strength. These countries know they cant stand up to us militarly but have attacked our exposed backdoor, the "free market" you speak of.

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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 04:00 PM
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ever feel like you are talking to yourself?

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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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ever feel like you are talking to yourself?
hahah all the time, thats what i dont get though. Everyone would rather ignore the big picture and blame whatever president happens to be in office. Yes i think entirely too much but i believe alot of people dont think enough.

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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 07:24 PM
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ever feel like you are talking to yourself?
yeah, its pretty sad when you have your own brother on your ignore list

its still "we the people"right?

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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-07-2009, 08:36 PM Thread Starter
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that just breaks my heart!

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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 09:39 AM
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No one ever said free market capitalism is the best system for everyone. in fact it only favors the capitalist. Is it unfair when a competitor can undercut your price? it might not be nice, but its still fair in a free market, an thats a risk you take in a free market. the alternative is a restricted market, and we know thats not fair.

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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 07:16 PM Thread Starter
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No one ever said free market capitalism is the best system for everyone. in fact it only favors the capitalist. Is it unfair when a competitor can undercut your price? it might not be nice, but its still fair in a free market, an thats a risk you take in a free market. the alternative is a restricted market, and we know thats not fair.
Yea price competition is completely fair when the expenses are comparable. They would compete on things like quality, new features and innovations, not so much on price.

Then we have china with its $200 a month labor wages. How can any decent american business owner compete with that?

For example i recently bought a 48" 16 gauge sheetmetal break. Chinese one i got was about $550, the american made one that its a direct copy of is over $1500. Thats what im talking about. I also never understood how the chinese get away with copying all this crap without gettin the hell sued out of them.

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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 10:25 AM
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Yea price competition is completely fair when the expenses are comparable. They would compete on things like quality, new features and innovations, not so much on price.

Then we have china with its $200 a month labor wages. How can any decent american business owner compete with that?
the is a very simple way to compete.. go to China.
the big misconception here is that people think china is coming into our market, but its really not like that. its Americans that are going to China to get stuff made and then selling here.

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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 10:31 AM
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Yea price competition is completely fair when the expenses are comparable. They would compete on things like quality, new features and innovations, not so much on price.

Then we have china with its $200 a month labor wages. How can any decent american business owner compete with that?

For example i recently bought a 48" 16 gauge sheetmetal break. Chinese one i got was about $550, the american made one that its a direct copy of is over $1500. Thats what im talking about. I also never understood how the chinese get away with copying all this crap without gettin the hell sued out of them.
Why did you purchase the Chinese made one instead of the American made?

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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Why did you purchase the Chinese made one instead of the American made?
I intentionally put that in there so it hardly was foot in mouth, i fully expected someone to say something about it. I bought the chinese one because i couldnt afford the american made one, simply. It actually broke on me the first time i tried using it at its max capacity. Thankfully i was able to repair it.

See i do custom fabrication work and i work for regular guys. They can barely afford me at my rate of $30/hour now, raising my rate is something i cant do because they cant afford it.

See how that works, they cant make decent money and it effects me. Basically business with china has forced us to do business with them, as far as the majority anyways.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 11:49 AM
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I intentionally put that in there so it hardly was foot in mouth, i fully expected someone to say something about it. I bought the chinese one because i couldnt afford the american made one, simply. It actually broke on me the first time i tried using it at its max capacity. Thankfully i was able to repair it.

See i do custom fabrication work and i work for regular guys. They can barely afford me at my rate of $30/hour now, raising my rate is something i cant do because they cant afford it.

See how that works, they cant make decent money and it effects me. Basically business with china has forced us to do business with them, as far as the majority anyways.
LOL @ thinking your setting up a situation. How old are you?

The exact reason other Americans buy Chinese goods, BECAUSE THEY ARE CHEAPER. I'm all for American made products but I'm not going to blow hard earned cash on an American made product when I can buy a foreign made product of comparable quality cheaper.

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post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 12:23 PM
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America/Americans

chinese is fine.

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post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 03:10 PM Thread Starter
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LOL @ thinking your setting up a situation. How old are you?

The exact reason other Americans buy Chinese goods, BECAUSE THEY ARE CHEAPER. I'm all for American made products but I'm not going to blow hard earned cash on an American made product when I can buy a foreign made product of comparable quality cheaper.
Right back at you for thinking i was stupid enough to put my foot in my mouth. So let me ask you, how old are you?

Chinese stuff isnt made as good as american stuff. Everyone knows this and as i said, my sheetmetal brake BROKE. Im sure you know all about how chinese steel isnt as strong as american steel due to low nickel in the material. Ever had a chinese tool snap in half? Theres a reason why.

The point i was getting at, is that its unfair competition due to price. If there was only a small difference in price i would gladly bought the american made product but we are talking 3 times the amount.

I prefer american made products because i know its made better, from better quality material and second because i care about my country and its people. You admit yourself that you dont care who makes it, what does that say about you?

Dont forget its also supposed to be TRADE. Do you really think china is going to buy shit from us when its 3 times the price as their own stuff? Hell the one thing they do get from us, entertainment and software they just steal. Instead the RIAA is suing a couple thousand americans for downloading music when the whole damn country of china does it every day because they dont respect intellectual property, especially americas.

Basically people who argue this point are saying in a way that america couldnt function without cheap goods from china and that is such a load of BS. This country has been around along time and believe it or not, made high quality products and was a self suficient nation. It also wasnt in debt like it is now, how ya think that happened? Its wasnt cause of obama thats for sure, even though he is adding on to the shitpile but since they have no interntion on every paying that back who gives a shit right?

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 03:14 PM
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I intentionally put that in there so it hardly was foot in mouth, i fully expected someone to say something about it. I bought the chinese one because i couldnt afford the american made one, simply. It actually broke on me the first time i tried using it at its max capacity. Thankfully i was able to repair it.

See i do custom fabrication work and i work for regular guys. They can barely afford me at my rate of $30/hour now, raising my rate is something i cant do because they cant afford it.

See how that works, they cant make decent money and it effects me. Basically business with china has forced us to do business with them, as far as the majority anyways.
In an attempt to bring this full circle....I wonder if the high price of the American brake press has anything to do with some guy charging $30 an hour for fabrication work?

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post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
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America/Americans

chinese is fine.
What if i start a sentence with chinese? Wouldnt that make me look illiterate? LOL

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post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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In an attempt to bring this full circle....I wonder if the high price of the American brake press has anything to do with some guy charging $30 an hour for fabrication work?
EDIT: I misunderstood what you were getting at so let me rephase that. The reason i have to charge $30 an hour is to cover my expenses IE Shop rent, welding suppiles, metal finishing supplies, and all the other consumables i use. Plus i have to earn an income, how much you think a guy that can design and build shit is worth?

Heres something to think about regarding that. Mechanic and bodyshops labor rates are $60+ an hour AND they have a book that says how long a job pays. Im sure you are familiar with this but if its says 4 hours to do something and the guy does it in 30 mins, you still get charged for 4 hours at the full shop rate. I dont have that luxury, people bring me all kinds of odd ball shit and i have no idea what im getting into till i actually do it. Needless to say, the stuff i do requires a shitload more thought and takes alot longer to do and yet im half of what most R&R mechanic shops charge.

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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 03:27 PM
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Right back at you for thinking i was stupid enough to put my foot in my mouth. So let me ask you, how old are you?

Chinese stuff isnt made as good as american stuff. Everyone knows this and as i said, my sheetmetal brake BROKE. Im sure you know all about how chinese steel isnt as strong as american steel due to low nickel in the material. Ever had a chinese tool snap in half? Theres a reason why.

The point i was getting at, is that its unfair competition due to price. If there was only a small difference in price i would gladly bought the american made product but we are talking 3 times the amount.

I prefer american made products because i know its made better, from better quality material and second because i care about my country and its people. You admit yourself that you dont care who makes it, what does that say about you?

Dont forget its also supposed to be TRADE. Do you really think china is going to buy shit from us when its 3 times the price as their own stuff? Hell the one thing they do get from us, entertainment and software they just steal. Instead the RIAA is suing a couple thousand americans for downloading music when the whole damn country of china does it every day because they dont respect intellectual property, especially americas.

Basically people who argue this point are saying in a way that america couldnt function without cheap goods from china and that is such a load of BS. This country has been around along time and believe it or not, made high quality products and was a self suficient nation. It also wasnt in debt like it is now, how ya think that happened? Its wasnt cause of obama thats for sure, even though he is adding on to the shitpile but since they have no interntion on every paying that back who gives a shit right?
LOL where did I say that I don't care who makes it? You're just like a woman, you see what you want to see. If I'm purchasing a tool that will be in my box for a lifetime and be used many times it will be American made, if it isn't going to see much used then chinese it is.

As for your "debt" a lot of it is probably due to the exorbitant prices you have had to pay for american made items that cost 1/10th of there selling price to manufacture. LOTS of things in life aren't fair so quit whining about it and move on.

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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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LOL where did I say that I don't care who makes it? You're just like a woman, you see what you want to see. If I'm purchasing a tool that will be in my box for a lifetime and be used many times it will be American made, if it isn't going to see much used then chinese it is.

As for your "debt" a lot of it is probably due to the exorbitant prices you have had to pay for american made items that cost 1/10th of there selling price to manufacture. LOTS of things in life aren't fair so quit whining about it and move on.
The fact im not happy with it and i complain, while you just sit there and wonder why AMERICA (better ceyko?lol)is circling the drain and going to shit as a nation and probably blame it on whoever the current president is. Most people are that short sighted it seems.

You seem like a smart guy, i dont see why you are arguing with me over being conerned for my country. Its a slow downward process and people have been concerned about it for decades, remember the BUY AMERICAN ads? Walmart used to be ONLY american made products when the old man was running it i believe.

I simply want americas economic power returned. Im tired of all this foreign crap and reading about the lastest innovations from asia. Where is americas break thoughs? I thought the reason we allowed the manufacturing to leave is because we were supposed to replace it with new technology and as far as consumer goods, that hasnt happened. It went with the manufacturing and we got left with nothing basically. Sure we got some engineering and designing jobs here but in a country the size of the US its not enough. The reason that matters is because aslong as we dont have anything to sell, we will continue to go futher into debt and im concerned what our lenders will do when we default on that loan.

Id love to see america selling products and actually making a profit to where we didnt have to borrow money just to run the country. But i guess to the majority of people, who cares right? Maybe we will have to wait until everything goes completely to shit, in that case maybe obama is a good thing. Instead of delaying the shit storm that is coming maybe we can hurry up and hit bottom so people will realize.

Do you work for Ready Cable in keller by chance?

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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 04:34 PM
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The fact im not happy with it and i complain, while you just sit there and wonder why AMERICA (better ceyko?lol)is circling the drain and going to shit as a nation and probably blame it on whoever the current president is. Most people are that short sighted it seems.

You seem like a smart guy, i dont see why you are arguing with me over being conerned for my country. Its a slow downward process and people have been concerned about it for decades, remember the BUY AMERICAN ads? Walmart used to be ONLY american made products when the old man was running it i believe.

I simply want americas economic power returned. Im tired of all this foreign crap and reading about the lastest innovations from asia. Where is americas break thoughs? The reason that matters is because aslong as we dont have anything to sell, we will continue to go futher into debt and im concerned what our lenders will do when we default on that loan.

Id love to see america selling products and actually making a profit to where we didnt have to borrow money just to run the country. But i guess to the majority of people, who cares right? Maybe we will have to wait until everything goes completely to shit, in that case maybe obama is a good thing. Instead of delaying the shit storm that is coming maybe we can hurry up and hit bottom so people will realize.

Do you work for Ready Cable in keller by chance?
I hear you and I'm not arguing with you. What I'm saying is the reason it has come to this point is because we as Americans think that we deserve $20hr if we have the simple rudimentary skills when in fact we have illegals coming into this country on a daily basis that are willing to do these same jobs for next to nothing.

On the other hand a lot of Americans can't afford to by the quality "American" made things due to there cost and said unskilled American not earning the wages needed to buy everything American. You would be surprised at how many people are struggling to pay the rent and put food on the table in this day and age let alone being able to spend the additional cash on American made products.

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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 04:38 PM
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"The point i was getting at, is that its unfair competition due to price. If there was only a small difference in price i would gladly bought the american made product but we are talking 3 times the amount. "

exactly, now just imagine if everything was made here, we would be paying 3 times the amount for everything. Having 10-15 dollar an hour manufacturing jobs for 10-15% of the people, so 100% can pay 3 times as much for everthing doesn't make much sense.

its still "we the people"right?

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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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"The point i was getting at, is that its unfair competition due to price. If there was only a small difference in price i would gladly bought the american made product but we are talking 3 times the amount. "

exactly, now just imagine if everything was made here, we would be paying 3 times the amount for everything. Having 10-15 dollar an hour manufacturing jobs for 10-15% of the people, so 100% can pay 3 times as much for everthing doesn't make much sense.
How did the country function before china? you gonna say america ddnt exist before china started making our stuff? We were the worlds most industrial nation in the world, we made everything and therefore earned alot money and power. Without that you cant expect to be given money and power for nothing.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 04:51 PM
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How did the country function before china? you gonna say america ddnt exist before china started making our stuff? We were the worlds most industrial nation in the world, we made everything and therefore earned alot money and power. Without that you cant expect to be given money and power for nothing.
ya it existed, and most people will tell you they didn't have half the luxuries or extra money we have now. All I hear from my grandparents and parents is how tough it was and how growing up they didn't have anything. People don't realize how good they have it now. When I was a kid going to the movies was a huge event, getting a new toy was something special. Now I take my kids to the movies, buy them video games, go to ball games and eat out quite abit. Ask your parents or grandparents how "great" it was for them growing up. Ask them if they had extra money to throw around, eat out all the time, go to movies whenever they felt like it, we have all that plus added costs of cell phones, internet, multiple cars, plasma tvs. Not to mention hobbies like hunting, softball, hot rods, pay per views, and all the other things we spend our money on. Ya america sucks

its still "we the people"right?

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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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I hear you and I'm not arguing with you. What I'm saying is the reason it has come to this point is because we as Americans think that we deserve $20hr if we have the simple rudimentary skills when in fact we have illegals coming into this country on a daily basis that are willing to do these same jobs for next to nothing.

On the other hand a lot of Americans can't afford to by the quality "American" made things due to there cost and said unskilled American not earning the wages needed to buy everything American. You would be surprised at how many people are struggling to pay the rent and put food on the table in this day and age let alone being able to spend the additional cash on American made products.
I know people are suffering, thats what im talking about. We used to have jobs for people. Along as they would show up to work they could earn a decent living without a degree. Now days if you dont go to school you are pretty much fucked. What few jobs that are left are being filled by the illegals.

My grandfather told me they used to love the immigrants because they always had job openings and couldnt find workers. Immigration helped us maintain the quanity of products we needed to supply the world.

Its basically worked like a barter and trade system between neighbors. You buy something from your neighbors company and he buys something from yours. You compliment each other and support each other through your purchases. It was a balanced system and the chinese fucked it all up. It was americas strength to its large and strong middle class but it was fragile. I mean we have done business with europe forever and we never saw the jobs leave for europe. We were china to europe, they have all kinds of laws protecting their jobs cause they know they will get in deep shit without jobs for the people.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
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ya it existed, and most people will tell you they didn't have half the luxuries or extra money we have now. All I hear from my grandparents and parents is how tough it was and how growing up they didn't have anything. People don't realize how good they have it now. When I was a kid going to the movies was a huge event, getting a new toy was something special. Now I take my kids to the movies, buy them video games, go to ball games and eat out quite abit. Ask your parents or grandparents how "great" it was for them growing up. Ask them if they had extra money to throw around, eat out all the time, go to movies whenever they felt like it, we have all that plus added costs of cell phones, internet, multiple cars, plasma tvs. Ya america sucks
Why do you always act like im anti-america? Im talking about america maintaining its power and respect.

You also act like only in america we have those things, most countries have all that same stuff, its hardly an american only thing. Just a few years ago in china they didnt have shit, now look at them! Its called technology which increases peoples standard of living. They didnt have cell phones in the 50s, nor color TVs. My grandparents had a house, 2 cars and SAVINGS! Thats right, they were able to live good and still had money left over to save. Mom and dads suffering started in the late 70s, right when shit started going downhill. Hell dad says it was FDR and the new deal that started it.

When i was in school it was all about going to college and gettin into computers. Well we know how that worked out, silicon valley is a fucking ghost town. Not to mention, all those supposedly high paying jobs were easily sent to china and india. The only reason we have any jobs left at all is service based jobs simply because they cant outsource them. Soon people will be so broke it wont matter anyway because who can afford to use those services? You can always find someone to do a job cheaper when you have a shitload of people out of work. Look at mexico and china, too many fucking people so they get used like slaves.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.

Last edited by Slammy; 06-09-2009 at 05:11 PM.
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 05:13 PM
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ya I'm sure its great in china....lol....why do you worship them so? Late 70s? you mean when they were in they're mid 20's with kids and not even a high school diploma between them? What does this have to do with china again? Oh yeah, those 10-15 dollar an hour jobs they took from us while lowering the everday cost of everything we buy.

its still "we the people"right?

"So this is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause"

"a lesson lived is a lesson learned, everyday is a lesson."

obama is a man made disaster

Last edited by mightyp; 06-09-2009 at 05:20 PM.
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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ya I'm sure its great in china....lol....why do you worship them so? Late 70s? you mean when they were in they're mid 20's with kids and not even a high school diploma between them? What does this have to do with china again? Oh yeah, those 10-15 dollar an hour jobs they took from us while lower the everday cost of everything we buy.
I dont worship them, i think they are communist pieces of shit that have fought against us every chance they got. Why is business with them even allowed, i read they used to actually be on some kind of blacklist of countries we will not do business with. They have funded war against america more than once yet its ok to give the money they need to arm themselves. Thats the reason for my concern. Its gonna be like people bitching about us arming saddam then having to fight him. Unless you think the chinese are peaceful america loving people. I think they love our money and our land, that sure would solve their over crowded problem real nice. I could be completely wrong, china could just tell the US to not worry about its debt but i doubt that, do you?

I see their standard of living (outside of their personal rights which their communist government traples whenever they want) being very much like we have here in the US. You act like they still live in bamboo huts. They are buying cars, have american fast food resturants and who knows what else. Im sure you heard about how fantastic american companies are doing in china. KFC sales in america are declining but was picked up and then some in china. They can afford all of this at the american peoples expense, they are living off the jobs that made this country what it is. You think things can stay the same way here without the one thing that made it in the first place?

and no i dont think war with china is coming anytime soon, they wouldnt be that stupid. Wish they were but i dont see them making such a mistake. I know you think that if they try and come over here that you will shoot them but wont that make us the POS for not paying our debt? I really wonder whose side the world will take if/when that happens. The country that lived it up with cheap cell phones and plasma tvs that has an enormous debt or the country that worked its ass to make that stuff and wants its money that it is owed. That cheap stuff wasnt isnt as cheap as you think it is. The debt should be proof of that.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.

Last edited by Slammy; 06-09-2009 at 06:24 PM.
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post #31 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 08:19 PM
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Nice looking work slammy...
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post #32 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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Nice looking work slammy...
Thank you sir!

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.

Last edited by Slammy; 06-09-2009 at 08:45 PM.
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post #33 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-10-2009, 06:28 AM
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1st in regards to IT. IT is much more then "computers." IT, networks, computers (PCs, workstations and server), applications, databases...etc..etc have been known to make a company extremely profitable with very little overhead. Just have utilize "IT" while most companies consider IT to be just an expense.

Anyway, I think some valid points are being made all the way around. First and foremost is the pay American workers receive. I understand it is partially to blame for the increase in American made parts/products. Also, Americans tend to buy the cheapest they can to make 20 /hr feel more like 25 or 30 /hr.

My question is what do yall think we should do about it. Think about it, the overpaid American worker is YOU (all of us). If you want to bitch about the overpaid American worker, be part of the solution and take a pay cut. I'd imagine half your current pay is a good start right?

My company gets paid anywhere from 150 - 250 /hr for my services. For some projects we can demand 300 /hr. I'll be sure to explain to them their lack of patriotism as well. (I get no where near that amount.)

My '03 Sold.
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post #34 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-10-2009, 06:59 AM
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...First and foremost is the pay American workers receive. I understand it is partially to blame for the increase in American made parts/products. Also, Americans tend to buy the cheapest they can to make 20 /hr feel more like 25 or 30 /hr.

My question is what do yall think we should do about it. Think about it, the overpaid American worker is YOU (all of us). If you want to bitch about the overpaid American worker, be part of the solution and take a pay cut. I'd imagine half your current pay is a good start right?
Seriously? $20 an hour is overpaid? Have you tried to raise a family on $20 an hour? If I were to guess you're still in your early twenties and single, no?

That pay rate is a far cry from 'overpaid' and is really about a minimum level on which one could live paycheck to paycheck while doing so, while being frugal with your expenditures...
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post #35 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-10-2009, 07:12 AM
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Seriously? $20 an hour is overpaid? Have you tried to raise a family on $20 an hour? If I were to guess you're still in your early twenties and single, no?

That pay rate is a far cry from 'overpaid' and is really about a minimum level on which one could live paycheck to paycheck while doing so, while being frugal with your expenditures...
Kind sir, you're wrong on so many levels about me.

1. That was an example, I should've clarified. I seem to see 20/hr listed in other threads for menial jobs..etc. (another edit: This is also what OTHER people say. Not necessarily my opinion all the way around)

2. I'm only stating that I understand what people are referring to with American goods being higher priced. *I* just have no idea how to fix it. The only way I can think of is for mass amounts of people to take pay cuts. Which lets face it - is retarded. If we did so, American corporations would leave the prices the same and just profit more anyway.

3. The other ways to fix it require responsible politicians. Which less face it, is less likely to happen then a bunch of Americans taking pay cuts.

4. Try low 30s, married, with twins in the oven. I KNOW what the cost of living is these days, just reference #1 to clarify.

My '03 Sold.

Last edited by ceyko; 06-10-2009 at 09:18 AM.
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post #36 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-10-2009, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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They could start by getting rid of NAFTA and reimposing the import taxes. Either you make your stuff here or you pay import tax, its very simple.

The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was.
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