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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-16-2009, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
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german death camp official

this is a disturbing reality.

The Austrian Franz Stangl was in charge of Sobibor until September 1942, when he was transferred to the deathcamp Treblinka. Stangl gained a reputation as an efficient administrator and according to SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Odilo Globocnik, Franz Stangl was "the best camp commander, who had the greatest share of the entire action...."



At the end of the war Franz Stangl managed to conceal his identity and although imprisoned in 1945 he was released two years later. He escaped to Italy with his colleague from Sobibor, Gustav Wagner, where he was helped by the Vatican network to Syria on a Red Cross passport. Stangl was joined by his wife and family and lived in Syria for three years before moving to Brazil in 1951. With the help of friends Stangl found work at the Volkswagen plant in Sao Paulo, still using his own name.

For years his responsibility in the mass murder of men, women and children had been known to the Austrian authorities but Austria did not issue a warrant for Stangl's arrest until 1961. It took another six years before he was tracked down by Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal and arrested in Brazil.

After extradition to West Germany he was tried for the deaths of around 900,000 people. He admitted to these killings but argued:"My conscience is clear. I was simply doing my duty .." Found guilty on 22 October, 1970, Stangl was sentenced to life imprisonment. He died of heart failure in Düsseldorf prison on 28 June, 1971.

Franz Stangl was interviewed by the author Gitta Sereny in 1970 and his comments later appeared in the book Into That Darkness: An Examination of Conscience (1983):

"Would it be true to say that you got used to the liquidations?"

He thought for a moment. "To tell the truth," be then said, slowly and thoughtfully, "one did become used to it."

"In days? Weeks? Months?"

"Months. It was months before I could look one of them in the eye. I repressed it all by trying to create a special place: gardens, new barracks, new kitchens, new everything; barbers, tailors, shoemakers, carpenters. There were hundreds of ways to take one's mind off it; I used them all."

"Even so, if you felt that strongly, there had to be times, perhaps at night, in the dark, when you couldn't avoid thinking about it?"

"In the end, the only way to deal with it was to drink. I took a large glass of brandy to bed with me each night and I drank."

"I think you are evading my question."

"No, I don't mean to; of course, thoughts came. But I forced them away. I made myself concentrate on work, work and again work."

"Would it be true to say that you finally felt they weren't really human beings?"

"When I was on a trip once, years later in Brazil," be said, his face deeply concentrated, and obviously reliving the experience, "my train stopped next to a slaughterhouse. The cattle in the pens hearing the noise of the train, trotted up to the fence and stared at the train. They were very close to my window, one crowding the other, looking at me through that fence. I thought then, 'Look at this, this reminds me of Poland; that's just how the people looked, trustingly, just before they went into the tins..."'

"You said tins," I interrupted. "What do you mean?" But he went on without hearing or answering me.

"... I couldn't eat tinned meat after that. Those big eyes which looked at me not knowing that in no time at all they'd all be
dead." He paused. His face was drawn. At this moment he looked old and worn and real.


"So you didn't feel they were human beings?"

"Cargo," he said tonelessly. "They were cargo." He raised and dropped his hand in a gesture of despair. Both our voices had dropped. It was one of the few times in those weeks of talks that he made no effort to cloak his despair, and his hopeless grief allowed a moment of sympathy.

"When do you think you began to think of them as cargo? The way you spoke earlier, of the day when you first came to Treblinka, the horror you felt seeing the dead bodies everywhere - they weren't 'cargo' to you then, were they?"

"I think it started the day I first saw the Totenlager in Treblinka. I remember Wirth standing there, next to the pits full of blue-black corpses. It had nothing to do with humanity, it couldn't have; it was a mass - a mass of rotting flesh. Wirth said, 'What shall we do with this garbage?' I think unconsciously that started me thinking of them as cargo."

"There were so many children, did they ever make you think of your children, of how you would feel in the position of those parents?"

"No," he said slowly, "I can't say I ever thought that way." He paused. "You see," he then continued, still speaking with this extreme seriousness and obviously intent on finding a new truth within himself, "I rarely saw them as individuals. It was always a huge mass. I sometimes stood on the wall and saw them in the tube. Bu t- how can I explain it - they were naked, packed together, running, being driven with whips like ..." the sentence trailed off.

"Could you not have changed that?" I asked. "In your position, could you not have stopped the nakedness, the whips, the horror of the cattle pens?"

"No, no, no. This was the system. Wirth had invented it. It worked and because it worked, it was irreversible."

RON PAUL '08
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-16-2009, 01:30 PM
Lifer
 
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Makes sense to me.

Ive spoken and met plenty that say if you want to come out sane, dehumanize what you can.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-16-2009, 02:00 PM
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If you look at your enemy as people, you can't do your job. They become targets and inanimate objects
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
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the men thought they where getting jobs.only to be killed in mas.

1.5 million children?

in the line of duty?

i think it could happen again.

RON PAUL '08
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 11:13 AM
Lifer
 
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De-humanizing is the key.
If your sent to kill an animal, no big deal right?
Black people where de-humanized in the beginning of slavery,(1692) people where flat out told that black people where not humans, until the intelligent people spoke up. Sadly some of this still continues today.

When Europeans where expanding across America, Indians where all but exterminated. We where not human, we where noting but savage animals.
But strangely enough, the supreme court was modeled after the Indian tribal counsels.


In WWII politicization dehumanized the American Japanese, and sent them to consecration camps.

Right now the liberals (communists) are de-humanizing the conservatives, calling us far right wing red neck hate groups, and terrorist . They even have the nerve to call our returning troops, potential terrorist.

Do you see a pattern here?



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
Honor is not something given to you by way of job, or title.

Honor is learned, earned, practiced and respected by all decent men and women.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
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i see the pattern.been seeing it.

there are so many leaches on society now i can see it all happening again.

RON PAUL '08
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
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here hold my hand,get on the bus with your peers.you will be taken to a place of work,food,and security for your family."the goverment loves you"

exit the bus and get in your line.mens line to the left,womens to the right,and children will be located in the middle.

you will have work and food but first you all need to be bathed.follow your peers into the shower rooms.you know the rest...

id rather be a sniper!

RON PAUL '08
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 06:07 PM
Lifer
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast83 View Post
i see the pattern.been seeing it.

there are so many leaches on society now i can see it all happening again.
Believe it or not. Your on to something....

Leaches..... This is what the commies want. They want you to be dependent on them. They want you to want free health care, they want you to take all the "free" handouts . So you will keep them in power long enough to pass enough laws to take your freedom completely away. This a little strong?..... Try this.

Freedom = choice.

Health care..... What choice do you have there. (Been to a V.A. hospital lately? same thing will happen to "free" health care)

If you will notice, the only people left strongly defending the current administration, is the leaches that want something for free. The only problem is, it's not free. The rest of us are paying for it. Taking money from one to give to some lazy S.O.B. that will not do for them selves is wrong no matter how you look at it.

The worst part is, these people that are promised the most, in the end, will get the least. There is no socialist country that shows favoritism to the poor. The poor are the one's tossed to the side and slaughtered, because they have nothing to offer to the people in charge.



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
Honor is not something given to you by way of job, or title.

Honor is learned, earned, practiced and respected by all decent men and women.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 08:04 AM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
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yep

i cant beleive people can't put 2 & 2 together.look back at history.if left idle history will repeat itself.to many are worried about texting and chrome rims.thats a problem.

im more worried about primers and powder.

RON PAUL '08
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 08:23 AM
Lifer
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazz007 View Post
Right now the liberals (communists) are de-humanizing the conservatives, calling us far right wing red neck hate groups, and terrorist . They even have the nerve to call our returning troops, potential terrorist.

Do you see a pattern here?

You are comparing that to the tragedies that happened to the Jewish people? Maybe you need to think that a little bit longer. I haven't heard of any right wingers that have been put in concentration camps or slaughtered. If what you are suggesting is so horrific, what about all of the liberals that have been treated the same way for the last 8 years while W was in office? Shouldn't they need to worry about that too since the right wing group has been shunning them and making them out to be lunes? Just to be referred to as a 'liberal' is to be de-huminized since that word has been twisted around so much. Poor little right wings. They are sooooo.. mistreated. Give me a break.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 06:35 PM
Lifer
 
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Originally Posted by line-em-up View Post
You are comparing that to the tragedies that happened to the Jewish people? Maybe you need to think that a little bit longer. I haven't heard of any right wingers that have been put in concentration camps or slaughtered. If what you are suggesting is so horrific, what about all of the liberals that have been treated the same way for the last 8 years while W was in office? Shouldn't they need to worry about that too since the right wing group has been shunning them and making them out to be lunes? Just to be referred to as a 'liberal' is to be de-huminized since that word has been twisted around so much. Poor little right wings. They are sooooo.. mistreated. Give me a break.
Well the tragedies I speak of started some where. And it started with de-humanization. And if the trend continues, it won't be just the conservatives. And no, I never said the conservatives where innocent of anything. But I do not ever remember an entire group of conservatives calling our returning troops, terrorists. Do you?

Stop thinking liner.

I'm speaking about the retards in office right now. Just like I spoke up when Bush brain took away our 4th amendment with the patriot act. It's not just one side or the other, that have lost there collective minds,,,,,,, It's the hole lot of them!



All men should know Honor first, above all else!

Honor is not holding your hand out for something you did not earn.
Honor is not forcing your ideas, or belief on others.
Honor is not something given to you by way of job, or title.

Honor is learned, earned, practiced and respected by all decent men and women.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
Lifer
 
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when members from the left and right such as clinton/bush/obama are all members of the CFR and all buddies behind closed doors,it makes absolutely no since to play the left/right game.those are all tactis to amuze the publlic while they all have the same agenda and impliment it one potus at a time.

there is no left or right.

RON PAUL '08
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-18-2009, 08:41 PM
Lifer
 
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...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tazz007 View Post
Well the tragedies I speak of started some where. And it started with de-humanization. And if the trend continues, it won't be just the conservatives. And no, I never said the conservatives where innocent of anything. But I do not ever remember an entire group of conservatives calling our returning troops, terrorists. Do you?

Stop thinking liner.

I'm speaking about the retards in office right now. Just like I spoke up when Bush brain took away our 4th amendment with the patriot act. It's not just one side or the other, that have lost there collective minds,,,,,,, It's the hole lot of them!
I understand what you are saying and I definitely agree with your last part.
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