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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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Barack Obama's rich supporters fear his tax plans show he's a class warrior

Happy now, you dumb bastards?



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...s-warrior.html
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Barack Obama's rich supporters fear his tax plans show he's a class warrior


Some of Barack Obama's richest supporters fear they have elected a "class warrior" to the White House, who will turn America's freewheeling capitalism into a more regulated European system.


By Leonard Doyle in Washington
Last Updated: 11:21AM BST 10 May 2009


Wealthy Wall Street financiers and other business figures provided crucial support for Mr Obama during the election, backing him over the Republican candidate John McCain as the right leader to rescue the collapsing US economy.

But it is now dawning on many among them that Mr Obama was serious about his campaign trail promises to bring root and branch reform to corporate America - and that they were more than just election rhetoric.

A top Obama fundraiser and hedge fund manager said: "I'm appalled at the anti-Wall Street rhetoric. It was OK on the campaign but now it's the real world. I'm surprised that Obama is turning out to be so left-wing. He's a real class warrior."

Chris Edwards of the Cato Institute, a free enterprise think tank, said Democrats in Congress were unnerved by the president's latest plan to raise $210 billion over 10 years from multinational corporations.

The money is needed to pay for a national debt that will double over the next five years; and triple over the next 10 years to $17.3 trillion. But the crackdown already faces fierce Democratic resistance.

"These big companies are based in New York Boston, Seattle and Silicon Valley, where Democrats dominate," Mr Edwards said. "Obama's tax plan is already cleaving him from his big corporate supporters," he said.

Mr Obama made no secret of his plans to raise taxes on the "working rich" (individuals earning more than $200,000) by imposing a top income tax rate of almost 40 per cent, and there is little surprise that those plans remain on track, even during the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.

But Democratic opposition is building in Congress to many of the President's proposals. A plan to reduce tax deductions for charitable gifts by richer people may have to be scrapped, because the charitable sector - which includes hospitals, museums and voluntary service groups - depends heavily on tax-deducted donations.

Charles Rangel, the New York chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, which drafts tax legislation, raised a red flag about the proposal last week. "I would never want to adversely affect anything that is charitable or good," he said.

Mr Obama also wants to "cap and trade" carbon emissions - seen by business as effectively yet another tax - to tackle global warming.

The president's plans are direct repudiation of the model of light touch regulation credited with creating economic growth and wealth in America in recent decades.

Setting out his thoughts on the economy, Mr Obama told the New York Times magazine last week: "There was always an unsustainable feel about what had happened on Wall Street over the last 10, 15 years, and it's not that different from the unsustainable nature of what was happening during the dot-com boom - where people in Silicon Valley could make enormous sums of money, even though what they were peddling never really had any signs it would ever make a profit."

A senior Wall Street executive who remains an admirer of Mr Obama, told The Sunday Telegraph that the reforms were necessary after years of excess. "I think its refreshing that he has the chutzpah to deal with the previously untouchable abuses of the system like tax dodging and excessive executive pay," he said.

"We badly need some European style social democracy, and Obama might as well start with health care reform."

That Mr Obama should have radical views on the shortcomings of the US economy is hardly surprising. As a young man he turned down a high paying career in the corporate sector to work as a community organiser in Chicago.

"I would imagine myself as a captain of industry, barking out orders, closing the deal, before I remembered who it was that I had told myself that I want to be," he wrote in his memoir Dreams from My Father.

With the Republican in deep trouble, the Obama administration is trying to capitalise on the problems in the economy to drive through far-reaching reforms that might otherwise be impossible.

Rahm Emanuel, the president's tough-as-nails chief of staff, has coined a phrase which has become a mantra for the administration. "Rule one," he declared, "Never allow a crisis to go to waste. They are opportunities to do big things."

Warren Buffet, the wealthy investor regarded by Americans as an economic seer, is among high profile Obama supporters worried that he is attempting too much by pressing ahead with other controversial reforms such as healthcare.

"Job one is to win the war, the economic war, job two is to win the economic war, and job three," he said recently. "You can't expect people to unite behind you if you're trying to jam a whole bunch of things down their throat."

Mr Obama has so far pushed back against strong protectionist pressures in Congress seeking to force US companies to keep jobs at home
. But the business community is alarmed by plans confirmed last week to close down the tax loophole which allows American multinationals to park hundreds of billions of dollars beyond the US tax man's reach in their overseas subsidiaries.

Under one of his tax reforms, companies based in the US would be required to pay US taxes on all their overseas earnings.

Among those affected by such changes would be some of Mr Obama's most powerful supporters in the election, such as Eric Schmidt, Google's CEO, and other "Silicon Valley" executives whose profits are mostly made abroad. They were taken aback when the President blasting companies for "shirking" their responsibilities by avoiding tax.

The plan to end tax breaks for US multinational companies has also drawn the ire of Democrats . Max Baucus, the powerful Montana Democrat who chairs the Senate Finance Committee, declared that "further study" was needed within minutes of the president announcing his proposals.

New York Democratic congressman Joseph Crowley said closing the loophole would hurt Citigroup Inc., his New York district's largest employer.

It has also dawned on wealthy Americans who flocked to the Obama campaign of "Hope" and "Change" that the president opposes the "trickle down" theories that have guided US economics since President Ronald Reagan was elected with a mandate to slash taxes.

Mr Obama said last week that it was "an aberration" that profits in the financial sector had grown so large over the last decade. It was ridiculous he suggested, that "25-year-olds (were) getting million-dollar bonuses, (and) they were willing to pay $100 for a steak dinner and the waiter was getting the kinds of tips that would make a college professor envious."

He warned that by the time he was done with them, Silicon Valley and Wall Street would remain large parts of the US economy, but not "half of our economy".

Mr Obama has also focused his sights on wealthy individuals who use offshore tax havens to evade tax and is hiring 800 inspectors to track them down.

Mr Obama needs to find a way to pay for the $750 billion spending spree Congress authorised after he took office to get the stalled economy going again.

I don't even know where to start... but someone on another board put it pretty well:

"Obama is like a trojan horse for retards."


.

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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 06:24 PM
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You've got to be shitting me...How did they not know?! His record spoke loud and clear.

I've started to hear a lot more "I regrettably voted for Obama..."

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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 06:33 PM
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You've got to be shitting me...How did they not know?! His record spoke loud and clear.

I've started to hear a lot more "I regrettably voted for Obama..."
Just shows you he sticks to his ways. He cant be bought like every other president. Not to say he hasnt been bought, but the fact that those guys are scared shows his true face.

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....LMAO @.... trying to figure out how to make a Utopian society!
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 07:51 PM
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Just shows you he sticks to his ways. He cant be bought like every other president. Not to say he hasnt been bought, but the fact that those guys are scared shows his true face.


I'm thinking that you could give iridium a serious run for the money as the densest object on the planet...
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 08:24 PM
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Just shows you he sticks to his ways. He cant be bought like every other president. Not to say he hasnt been bought, but the fact that those guys are scared shows his true face.
When the financial world is scared, that's B-A-D.

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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 08:30 PM
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Totally expected. When Buffett turns on him he will lose a significant portion of the business community who bought into his hope and change crap virtually overnight.

Mark my words, this will be what makes him a single term president.
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 08:41 PM
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Totally expected. When Buffett turns on him he will lose a significant portion of the business community who bought into his hope and change crap virtually overnight.

Mark my words, this will be what makes him a single term president.
I don't guess we could hope for a 1/2 term president?

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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 08:48 PM
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Click me in as a "Not Surprised." I just hope he doesnt change so much shit that is irreversible.

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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 08:55 PM
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I'm thinking that you could give iridium a serious run for the money as the densest object on the planet...
You know he didnt get this.....right?
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 08:59 PM
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You know he didnt get this.....right?
^^^^^^^^

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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 11:00 PM
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Mark my words, this will be what makes him a single term president.
I only wish that were true.

History tells us that even with Franklin Roosevelt's failed New Deal and Second New Deal, and failure to act sooner to prevent unnecessary deaths at Pearl Harbor in World War II, he still went on to serve 4 terms as our President. It wasn't until that piece of shit died that we got a new President.

What is also interesting is that Bama uses the color of his skin to his advantage. There are record numbers of voters turning out to vote for him based primarily on the color of his skin. Bama could do some real fucked up shit and still get a plethora of votes because his skin color "don't look like the other Presidents on the currency."
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2009, 11:40 PM
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I'm thinking that you could give iridium a serious run for the money as the densest object on the planet...
If my brain density is equal to iridium, I guess that puts you at about 10^-3 torr.
But thanks, I appreciate the compliment.

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....LMAO @.... trying to figure out how to make a Utopian society!
In a perfect world the police would get paid to do nothing. So next time you see a cop eatin a donut, Yell.. Hey! Good Job!

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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 12:30 AM
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I don't guess we could hope for a 1/2 term president?
shit.... why give him more time to fuck MORE shit up? why not hope for a 1/8th term president?

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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 07:30 AM
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When the financial world is scared, that's B-A-D.


They are only scared because he might actually impose rules on them that will help avoid future problems caused by the deregulation that they were used to that allowed the subprime fiasco.

Republicans drove the car off the cliff and democrats had to do all of the work getting it back out of the ditch

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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 08:02 AM
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They are only scared because he might actually impose rules on them that will help avoid future problems caused by the deregulation that they were used to that allowed the subprime fiasco.
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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 08:06 AM
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Obama is the most inexperienced president in our history with socialist views to boot. Add the fact that he thinks he's Jesus into the mix and we are pretty much fucked for a while.

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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 08:13 AM
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They are only scared because he might actually impose rules on them that will help avoid future problems caused by the deregulation that they were used to that allowed the subprime fiasco.

so why not let them know that while he's campaigning?
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 08:38 AM
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I am far from an Obama supporter, but there has been a lot of raping and pillaging of companies and investments over the past couple of decades. It's time for that shit to stop.

Do I think he'll make decisions I agree with? Nope. Do I think he's going to scare the crap out of the people that have made their fortune by abusing tax loopholes, sending jobs overseas, cheating workers out of their retirements, and poorly managing other peoples' money to line their own pockets? Pretty good chance.
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 09:43 AM
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Just shows you he sticks to his ways. He cant be bought like every other president. Not to say he hasnt been bought, but the fact that those guys are scared shows his true face.
Wrong again. It shows that he'd do and say anything to get elected so he could move forward with his plan to ruin America. He hates this country, that is certain.

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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 09:56 AM
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This is just too funny. Obama fucks over his rich friends who never saw it coming. All they were focused on was hating bush.

IMO there is eventually going to be a lot of buyers remorse over this president.
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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 10:26 AM
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[I don't even know where to start... but someone on another board put it pretty well:

"Obama is like a trojan horse for retards."[/QUOTE]

So, it's like a transparent Trojan Horse full of armed men and the retards can only see a horse! And what a nice horsey! Let's bring it in!
That about sums it up. What a bunch of retards.

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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 12:15 PM
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Where's somebody to yell, "DUH" when these morons are finally seeing Obama for what he is?!?!

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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 12:58 PM
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You know he didnt get this.....right?

You were right, went right over his head. Evidently thought it was a compliment...
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 03:57 PM
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Obama is the most inexperienced president in our history with socialist views to boot. Add the fact that he thinks he's Jesus into the mix and we are pretty much fucked for a while.
That sums it up pretty well.....
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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 04:46 PM
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This is just too funny. Obama fucks over his rich friends who never saw it coming. All they were focused on was hating bush.

IMO there is eventually going to be a lot of buyers remorse over this president.

Well, the rich ones are the "smarter" ones and are figuring this shit out pretty quick. The stupid poor fuckers won't ever figure it out....but if they do, Barry is fucked and will get lynched by his own people.



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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 06:34 PM
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Well, the rich ones are the "smarter" ones and are figuring this shit out pretty quick. The stupid poor fuckers won't ever figure it out....but if they do, Barry is fucked and will get lynched by his own people.
Why can people like us see it immediately, but guys like warren buffet cannot? It defies explanation. But it is fun to watch the scrambling to protect their piles of money and to hear the remorse in their voice for having voted this idiot into office.
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 06:46 PM
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I am far from an Obama supporter, but there has been a lot of raping and pillaging of companies and investments over the past couple of decades. It's time for that shit to stop.

Do I think he'll make decisions I agree with? Nope. Do I think he's going to scare the crap out of the people that have made their fortune by abusing tax loopholes, sending jobs overseas, cheating workers out of their retirements, and poorly managing other peoples' money to line their own pockets? Pretty good chance.
The only difference is that the government will now do the raping and pillaging...

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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 07:56 PM
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Why can people like us see it immediately, but guys like warren buffet cannot? It defies explanation. But it is fun to watch the scrambling to protect their piles of money and to hear the remorse in their voice for having voted this idiot into office.

Because buffet is a puppet and a politician. He only says what he is told to say. That and he's an idiot.



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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-2009, 10:21 PM
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Why can people like us see it immediately, but guys like warren buffet cannot? It defies explanation. But it is fun to watch the scrambling to protect their piles of money and to hear the remorse in their voice for having voted this idiot into office.
Buffet is an idiot savant. When it comes to money he is a financial savant. But the fact that he supported the policies of a huge tax and spend socialist makes him an idiot.

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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 06:53 AM
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Buffet is an idiot savant. When it comes to money he is a financial savant. But the fact that he supported the policies of a huge tax and spend socialist makes him an idiot.
Buffet is a has-been. He had his day, but his company is losing money like a ugly dude in a titty bar. He needs to just shrivel up and go away.
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post #31 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 07:17 AM
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Buffet is a has-been. He had his day, but his company is losing money like a ugly dude in a titty bar. He needs to just shrivel up and go away.
Maybe so, but $60 billion can buy you a shit-load of lap-dances...

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post #32 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 07:33 AM
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Why can people like us see it immediately, but guys like warren buffet cannot? It defies explanation. But it is fun to watch the scrambling to protect their piles of money and to hear the remorse in their voice for having voted this idiot into office.
When I worked for the university, I had to work with plenty of professors. My opinions that those with PhD's were some of the dumbest people on campus. Sure, they could explain the interactions of electrons to a quark, but I'll be damned if they could figure out how to open a door.

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post #33 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 08:14 AM
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When I worked for the university, I had to work with plenty of professors. My opinions that those with PhD's were some of the dumbest people on campus. Sure, they could explain the interactions of electrons to a quark, but I'll be damned if they could figure out how to open a door.
They live in a sheltered world. That's why they stay there until retirement. The real world would whip their ass...

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post #34 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 09:19 AM
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This is just too funny. Obama fucks over his rich friends who never saw it coming. All they were focused on was hating bush.

IMO there is eventually going to be a lot of buyers remorse over this president.
Hot damned, there's a lot of underlying meaning in that statement!


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post #35 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 09:39 AM
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well...I voted for Obama because he is black...and I wanted to make history

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post #36 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 11:50 AM
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Hot damned, there's a lot of underlying meaning in that statement!


David
LOL! No shit! They can also fund their removal..

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post #37 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 12:18 PM
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The barrage of tax increases proposed in President Barack Obama's budget could, if enacted by Congress, kill any chance of an early and sustained recovery.

Historians and economists who've studied the 1930s conclude that the tax increases passed during that decade derailed the recovery and slowed the decline in unemployment. That was true of the 1935 tax on corporate earnings and of the 1937 introduction of the payroll tax. Japan did the same destructive thing by raising its value-added tax rate in 1997.

The current outlook for an economic recovery remains precarious. Although the stimulus package will give a temporary boost to growth in the current quarter, it will not be enough to offset the combined effect of lower consumer spending, the decline in residential construction, the weakness of exports, the limited availability of bank credit and the downward spiral of house prices. A sustained economic upturn is far from a sure thing. This is no time for tax increases that will reduce spending by households and businesses.

Even if the proposed tax increases are not scheduled to take effect until 2011, households will recognize the permanent reduction in their future incomes and will reduce current spending accordingly. Higher future tax rates on capital gains and dividends will depress share prices immediately and the resulting fall in wealth will cut consumer spending further. Lower share prices will also raise the cost of equity capital, depressing business investment in plant and equipment.

The Obama budget calls for tax increases of more than $1.1 trillion over the next decade. Official budget calculations disguise the resulting fiscal drag by treating Mr. Obama's proposal to cancel the 2011 income tax increases for taxpayers with incomes below $250,000 as if they are real tax cuts. The plan to modify the Alternative Minimum Tax to avoid increases for some taxpayers is also treated as a tax cut.

But those are false tax cuts in which no one's tax bill actually declines. In contrast, the proposed tax increases are very real. And despite the proposed tax increases, the government's new spending and transfer programs would cause the annual budget deficit in 2019 to exceed $1 trillion, or 5.7% of GDP.

Mr. Obama's biggest proposed tax increase is the cap-and-trade system of requiring businesses to buy carbon dioxide emission permits. The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates that the proposed permit auctions would raise about $80 billion a year and that these extra taxes would be passed along in higher prices to consumers. Anyone who drives a car, uses public transportation, consumes electricity or buys any product that involves creating CO2 in its production would face higher prices.

CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf testified before the Senate Finance Committee on May 7 that the cap-and-trade price increases resulting from a 15% cut in CO2 emissions would cost the average household roughly $1,600 a year, ranging from $700 in the lowest-income quintile to $2,200 in the highest-income quintile. Since the amount of cap-and-trade tax rises with income, the cap-and-trade tax has the same kind of adverse work incentives as the income tax. And since the purpose of the cap-and-trade plan is to discourage the consumption of CO2-intensive products, energy or means of transportation by raising their cost to consumers, the consumer-price increases would be the same for a 15% reduction in C02 even if the government decides to give away some of the CO2 emissions permits.

But while the cap-and-trade tax rises with income, the relative burden is greatest for low-income households. According to the CBO, households in the lowest-income quintile spend more than 20% of their income on energy intensive items (primarily fuels and electricity), while those in the highest-income quintile spend less than 5% on those products.


The CBO warns that the estimate of an $80 billion-a-year tax increase could be significantly higher or lower, depending on how the program is designed. The Waxman-Markey bill currently before Congress calls for reducing greenhouse gasses 20% by 2020 and by an incredible 83% by 2050. As the government reduces the amount of CO2 that is allowed, the price of the CO2 permits would rise and the pass-through to consumer prices would also increase.

The next-largest tax increase -- with a projected rise in revenue of more than $300 billion between 2011 and 2019 -- comes from increasing the tax rates on the very small number of taxpayers with incomes over $250,000. Because this revenue estimate doesn't take into account the extent to which the higher marginal tax rates would cause those taxpayers to reduce their taxable incomes -- by changing the way they are compensated, increasing deductible expenditures, or simply earning less -- it overstates the resulting increase in revenue.

Since the projected revenue from this source is already designated to be used for Mr. Obama's health plan, some other tax increases will be needed. Moreover, Mr. Obama's budget characterizes the projected $634 billion outlay for health-care reform as just a down payment on the program. The budget notes that there would be "additional resources and new benefits to be determined with Congress." Those additional resources would no doubt be even higher taxes.

The third major tax increase is the plan to raise $220 billion over the next nine years by changing the taxation of foreign-source income. While some extra revenue could no doubt come from ending the tax avoidance gimmicks that use dummy corporations in the Caribbean, most of the projected revenue comes from disallowing corporations to pay lower tax rates on their earnings in countries like Germany, Britain and Ireland. The purpose of the tax change is not just to raise revenue but also to shift overseas production by American firms back to the U.S. by reducing the tax advantage of earning profits abroad.

The administration is likely to be disappointed about its ability to achieve both goals. Bringing production back to be taxed at the higher U.S. tax rate would raise the cost of capital and make the products less competitive in global markets. American corporations would therefore have an incentive to sell their overseas subsidiaries to foreign firms. That would leave future profits overseas, denying the Treasury Department any claim on the resulting tax revenue. And new foreign owners would be more likely to use overseas suppliers than to rely on inputs from the U.S. The net result would be less revenue to the Treasury and fewer jobs in America.

It's not too late for Mr. Obama to put these tax increases on hold. If he doesn't, Congress should protect the recovery and the longer-term health of the U.S. economy by voting down this enormous round of higher taxes.


Mr. Feldstein, chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under President Reagan, is a professor at Harvard and a member of The Wall Street Journal's board of contributors.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124217336075913063.html

Sher glad he's on the poh peoples' side!

'05 Redfire Mustang

"Self-government won't work without self-discipline." - Paul Harvey
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