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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 06:33 AM Thread Starter
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GM: The Government Is in Charge

Article from BusinessWeek.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...rss_topStories

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The White House task force in charge of salvaging the carmaker is using a heavy hand. Is it hurting or helping?

By David Welch


The Obama Administration has "no desire to run an auto company on a day-to-day basis," says White House spokesman Robert Gibbs. If so, somebody forgot to tell the team of Treasury Dept. staffers and management consultants now camped out at the Detroit Renaissance Center, a hotel and office complex anchored by General Motors' (GM) headquarters. There, GM executives are mapping out a survival strategy ahead of a government-imposed June 1 deadline to squeeze concessions from bondholders and the United Auto Workers union or face bankruptcy.

Make no mistake: The White House and the task force overseeing the restructuring of both GM and Chrysler since February are calling the shots. The latest GM plan unveiled on Apr. 21 to slash more jobs and dealerships, shut down the Pontiac brand, and swap up to $27 billion in unsecured debt from bondholders for equity has heavy government input.

Treasury has a couple dozen staffers and executives from Boston Consulting Group (BCG) scrutinizing operational details at the car company. (BCG is getting paid $7 million from the government for its work on both GM and Chrysler.) Auto task force leaders Steven Rattner and Ron Bloom, both seasoned investment bankers, talk to GM CEO Frederick A. "Fritz" Henderson almost daily, weighing in heavily on big financial decisions. Elsewhere in the company, GM managers say they are encountering all manner of suggestions from the government. Henderson, who disputes the idea that the government is micromanaging, does liken Washington's role to that of a "private equity player" with ultimate veto power over its investment.

GM can't complain too loudly. After all, it has received $15.4 billion in government loans and needs much more to survive. Plus, without government pressure, GM likely would not have made some critical restructuring moves. In fact, GM is about to embark on a crash diet that will leave it a much diminished though more focused company, whose dominant shareholders could ultimately be the government (50%) and the United Auto Workers (39%).
INDUSTRY NOVICES

Some GM insiders fret that Treasury's key players have precious little industry experience. On the flip side, they do bring a new perspective. Car czar Rattner is co-founder of the Quadrangle Group and has gained unwelcome attention of late for his alleged connection to a scandal involving a New York State retirement fund. Rattner's No. 2, former United Steelworkers negotiator Bloom, has restructured plenty of companies but not carmakers. The lone exception at the top is Xavier Mosquet, head of BCG's Detroit office and an auto industry consulting veteran.

Rattner and Bloom, both financial pros, have spent the past two months flying to and from Detroit. They worked closely with Henderson in crafting a plan in which GM will ask bondholders to swap $27 billion for a 10% equity stake, which works out to payment of about 5 cents for every dollar of debt. If bondholders don't agree, GM says it will file for bankruptcy, and these creditors may get less. Henderson says approval by Treasury officials wasn't required for this plan, but adds: "We had to make sure they were comfortable."

Other advice has been less welcome. During the week of Apr. 13, about a dozen Treasury staffers and outside consultants arrived at GM's sprawling technical center north of Detroit. They reviewed the company's lineup of brands. At that point, GM had announced plans to phase out three weak brands—Hummer, Saab, and Saturn—out of a total of eight.

BCG pushed GM to go further and dump Buick and GMC, even though both make money and get much better pricing than mainstream brand Chevrolet. One source close to the review said the consultants took a view that since Toyota (TM) sells just two brands—its namesake line and the top-shelf Lexus cars—why couldn't GM just sell Chevy and Cadillac? "They wanted to know if we have a robust plan for each one," says Mark LaNeve, GM's vice-president for North American sales and marketing.

GM pushed back saying that Buick and GMC not only make money but also bring in different buyers than Chevy or Cadillac. Plus, Buick will get three new sedans—two of which are sold in China—and could boost profits by garnering more global sales volume. The BCG team didn't demand that the brands be killed, but sources say the review was intense and GM executives felt pressured by the government's hired guns. By the third week of April, GM had satisfied the feds that its four core brands—that is, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, and GMC—had value. But Henderson decided GM couldn't keep Pontiac with its weak sales outlook.

GM managers were caught off guard by other questions from the task force. One issue was when the Chevrolet Volt electric car, a product designed to leapfrog the current field of hybrid-electric cars, came under scrutiny. "They couldn't imagine why we were spending the time and money to do the Volt," says one senior GM product developer.

Another example: One Treasury official asked when the new Chevy Malibu sedan goes on sale. It has been in showrooms for 18 months.

Inside GM, executives have little choice but to adapt. "It's an indictment of our management that they're here," says one designer. But this bizarre alliance is probably GM's best hope for survival.
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 06:34 AM
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robert gibbs is a tool.

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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 07:06 AM
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 07:10 AM
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GM managers were caught off guard by other questions from the task force. One issue was when the Chevrolet Volt electric car, a product designed to leapfrog the current field of hybrid-electric cars, came under scrutiny. "They couldn't imagine why we were spending the time and money to do the Volt," says one senior GM product developer.
The government demands fuel efficiency but doesn't want them working on electric cars?

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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
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The government demands fuel efficiency but doesn't want them working on electric cars?
It doesn't seem odd when considering that these guys are from the Treasury and not the EPA... The Volt is costing GM a couple billion dollars to bring to market and it won't make a profit for years.
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 08:05 AM
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In fact, GM is about to embark on a crash diet that will leave it a much diminished though more focused company, whose dominant shareholders could ultimately be the government (50%) and the United Auto Workers (39%).


It's really too bad that we can't use this approach with the government itself...
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 08:11 AM
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They should have filed their own reorganization, cut the UAW off at the knees and told the government to GFY.

Now you'll see GM producing cars that will not sell and I'd imagine that the truck segment will be neutered. Then the government will wonder why a 3500 series truck that is the size of an 83 Toyota pick up with a 'green' 4 cylinder making 150hp is getting it's face raped by companies that didn't take a handout.

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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 08:12 AM
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QA/QC audits will be conducted ten times over by both internal AND third parties to keep them within governmental compliance now. Happens whenever the government starts calling the shots. Lots of out sourcing at every level of the company will probably be next. Don't even get me started on procurement. Be prepared to see high-priced Chevy vehicles in the near future. Also for low(er) quality crap.
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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 08:19 AM
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A GM employee told me that they sent the bailout money they received to help out overseas branches of GM instead of using it in this country.
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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 08:21 AM
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A GM employee told me that they sent the bailout money they received to help out overseas branches of GM instead of using it in this country.
Tellin' ya... outsourcing. The thing about the government calling the shots is that no matter what, the lowest bidder gets the job.
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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 08:24 AM
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You know, GM could just say, "No," to the money and terms and get the money elsewhere. Oh yeah, no one else will make a loan to them. Having government teams oversee and audit plans is no surprise. Look at all the crap you have to do when applying for a home loan. This is only different because it's on a larger scale. If I'm loaning money, I want to know exactly what it's being used for, how I'm going to be repaid, etc. The government should be no different.

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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Juiceweezl View Post
You know, GM could just say, "No," to the money and terms and get the money elsewhere. Oh yeah, no one else will make a loan to them. Having government teams oversee and audit plans is no surprise. Look at all the crap you have to do when applying for a home loan. This is only different because it's on a larger scale. If I'm loaning money, I want to know exactly what it's being used for, how I'm going to be repaid, etc. The government should be no different.
Exactly why they should be GONE. Uncle Obammy running any company is a joke...

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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Juiceweezl View Post
You know, GM could just say, "No," to the money and terms and get the money elsewhere. Oh yeah, no one else will make a loan to them. Having government teams oversee and audit plans is no surprise. Look at all the crap you have to do when applying for a home loan. This is only different because it's on a larger scale. If I'm loaning money, I want to know exactly what it's being used for, how I'm going to be repaid, etc. The government should be no different.
LOL, you will never get it.

The problem is that the government has no business lending money to preferred private companies! Free Enterprise allows for failure. There are no companies "too big to fail," as you are fond of saying. In a capitalist economic system, the only companies that don't fail are the profitable ones, and GM should be focusing on making profits instead of just finding ways to sustain an existence.

The government is actually responsible for a lot of GM's financial woes. I happen to think the all-electric Volt is something GM needs to survive. Being first to market will change their image. We're eventually going to all-electric anyway, may as well bypass the stupid "hybrid" bad joke phase we're in now.
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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 09:11 AM
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Having the government involved with a failing company is only going to make things worse. Since all decisions have to be run thru a committee, and there are any number of stupid rules and regulations that will surround each decision, the whole decision process grinds to a halt while business goes on. Anyone who has ever owned a business knows the frustration when decisions cannot be quickly made, and worse, when the decisions that are made are decided thousands of miles away from where the impact of the decision will be felt. It's all really bad business, propped up by the US taxpayer.
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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 09:23 AM
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I just wanted one good thing to come out of this...the death of the UAW
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post #16 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 09:23 AM
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Exactly why they should be GONE. Uncle Obammy running any company is a joke...
If they were actually running the company, I'd agree. Making sure they have a logical plan going forward before lending more money is different that running the company. GM used the first money to make payroll instead of making changes. They're just dealing with loan terms. If I were going to loan out 16 bil, I'd have no problems issuing some terms to protect my investment. As for questioning the Volt, how much money are they spending on it? Which one of you is ready to pay for one right now? Working on something long-term is great and needed, but if they're chasing pie in the sky at the expense of failing to see what's right in fron of them (market share slipping from 33% to 18% or less), then they need to change focus. Sure, I think they need to work on stuff for the future, but they should probably focus more on stuff like the article mentioned with the Malibu -- how can it spend 18 months in a showroom and not be available yet?

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post #17 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 09:27 AM
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GM managers were caught off guard by other questions from the task force. One issue was when the Chevrolet Volt electric car, a product designed to leapfrog the current field of hybrid-electric cars, came under scrutiny. "They couldn't imagine why we were spending the time and money to do the Volt," says one senior GM product developer.

Another example: One Treasury official asked when the new Chevy Malibu sedan goes on sale. It has been in showrooms for 18 months.
Dem gub'ment officials shore are in da know!

Kint wait for dem to be's runnin' da healths care!

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post #18 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 09:42 AM
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If they were actually running the company, I'd agree. Making sure they have a logical plan going forward before lending more money is different that running the company. GM used the first money to make payroll instead of making changes. They're just dealing with loan terms. If I were going to loan out 16 bil, I'd have no problems issuing some terms to protect my investment. As for questioning the Volt, how much money are they spending on it? Which one of you is ready to pay for one right now? Working on something long-term is great and needed, but if they're chasing pie in the sky at the expense of failing to see what's right in fron of them (market share slipping from 33% to 18% or less), then they need to change focus. Sure, I think they need to work on stuff for the future, but they should probably focus more on stuff like the article mentioned with the Malibu -- how can it spend 18 months in a showroom and not be available yet?
They are running it. Between Barry and the UAW, they're one in the same. The union got a much stronger deal than the actual bond/stock holders! By taking care of the union, Barry is pretty much "king of Government Motors". As much as I love the Camaro and Corvette, I'll never buy another GM product.

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post #19 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 09:43 AM
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Dem gub'ment officials shore are in da know!

Kint wait for dem to be's runnin' da healths care!
I'd feel better if they got their shit together in D.C. first, before heading to Detroit...

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post #20 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:02 AM
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They are running it. Between Barry and the UAW, they're one in the same. The union got a much stronger deal than the actual bond/stock holders! By taking care of the union, Barry is pretty much "king of Government Motors". As much as I love the Camaro and Corvette, I'll never buy another GM product.
The UAW has been the biggest issue for Detroit IMO. I think the restructuring though is helping with that. I'm too lazy to search it right now, but didn't I read that part of the concessions to get money meant UAW had to take stock as 50% of their retirment fund? That should be incentive to get their ass in gear and make the company profitable. I could be wrong though. I'll look it up later.

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post #21 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 04:30 PM
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If they were actually running the company, I'd agree. Making sure they have a logical plan going forward before lending more money is different that running the company. GM used the first money to make payroll instead of making changes. They're just dealing with loan terms. If I were going to loan out 16 bil, I'd have no problems issuing some terms to protect my investment. As for questioning the Volt, how much money are they spending on it? Which one of you is ready to pay for one right now? Working on something long-term is great and needed, but if they're chasing pie in the sky at the expense of failing to see what's right in fron of them (market share slipping from 33% to 18% or less), then they need to change focus. Sure, I think they need to work on stuff for the future, but they should probably focus more on stuff like the article mentioned with the Malibu -- how can it spend 18 months in a showroom and not be available yet?
You missed it bud, The Government officials asked about when the new Malibu would be for sale, when it had already been on sale for 18 months ,get it? the government sent in people that don't know shit...
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post #22 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 09:14 PM
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You missed it bud, The Government officials asked about when the new Malibu would be for sale, when it had already been on sale for 18 months ,get it? the government sent in people that don't know shit...
My bad. I don't follow chevy cars. I thought it was saying that they had showroom demo cars but not had them available. That's pretty poor on the auditors but also on GM to not have more advertising. I honestly thought they had discontinued the car a few years ago. haha

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post #23 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-04-2009, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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My bad. I don't follow chevy cars. I thought it was saying that they had showroom demo cars but not had them available. That's pretty poor on the auditors but also on GM to not have more advertising. I honestly thought they had discontinued the car a few years ago. haha
I can see how you might think that.

However, instead of discontinuing it, they turned it into one helluva damn good sedan. IMO it has one of the best car interiors in the industry. At least it will until the new Taurus comes out..
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post #24 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 06:26 AM
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I can see how you might think that.

However, instead of discontinuing it, they turned it into one helluva damn good sedan. IMO it has one of the best car interiors in the industry. At least it will until the new Taurus comes out..
I used to get them as rentals often years ago in my travel. I always thought it was well put together and fairly comfortable, especially for the price of the car. I don't understand the marketing strategies of the American car companies.

Take my Focus for example. We get X-plan pricing at work. A few years ago before the gas crisis, I ordered a Focus as a commuter car (75 miles round trip each day I'm in town). I saw what was going to happen and wanted to be ready. I took my internet build with X-plan, took the $3K rebate, and got a 4 door hatch with everything (2 tone leather seats/steering wheel, seat heaters, sun roof, 6 disc mp3 changer with sub, bumper and marker/light upgrades, wheels, etc.) on it. It took 7 weeks to build and deliver because they couldn't find anything even close on a lot. The sales guy and manager at the dealership couldn't understand why anyone would want to put so much stuff on a Focus. Anyway, it came in, they called, and his message was, "Your car is here and man, it looks way better than I thought it would. This car is nice." WTH!!! How can you sell a car and not know crap about it? The car is loaded down and was $18,200 out the door. It gets between 31-33 mpg, is super reliable, and drives extremely well. It can compete with Corollas and Civics, but no one seems to be trying to market to those buyers. Their strategies just amaze me.

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post #25 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 07:33 AM
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I used to get them as rentals often years ago in my travel. I always thought it was well put together and fairly comfortable, especially for the price of the car. I don't understand the marketing strategies of the American car companies.

Take my Focus for example. We get X-plan pricing at work. A few years ago before the gas crisis, I ordered a Focus as a commuter car (75 miles round trip each day I'm in town). I saw what was going to happen and wanted to be ready. I took my internet build with X-plan, took the $3K rebate, and got a 4 door hatch with everything (2 tone leather seats/steering wheel, seat heaters, sun roof, 6 disc mp3 changer with sub, bumper and marker/light upgrades, wheels, etc.) on it. It took 7 weeks to build and deliver because they couldn't find anything even close on a lot. The sales guy and manager at the dealership couldn't understand why anyone would want to put so much stuff on a Focus. Anyway, it came in, they called, and his message was, "Your car is here and man, it looks way better than I thought it would. This car is nice." WTH!!! How can you sell a car and not know crap about it? The car is loaded down and was $18,200 out the door. It gets between 31-33 mpg, is super reliable, and drives extremely well. It can compete with Corollas and Civics, but no one seems to be trying to market to those buyers. Their strategies just amaze me.
So what you are saying is that you paid $18,200 for a new car to save a few bucks in gas?

I had heard those commercials before on TV and the radio and told myself that no one would be stupid enough to buy a new car just to save a few bucks in gas, but I guess I was incorrect.
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post #26 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 07:51 AM
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So what you are saying is that you paid $18,200 for a new car to save a few bucks in gas?

I had heard those commercials before on TV and the radio and told myself that no one would be stupid enough to buy a new car just to save a few bucks in gas, but I guess I was incorrect.
Look at hybrid owners that buy them for long highway commutes where they actually get worse mileage than the standard models, but they bought into the hype.

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post #27 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 08:05 AM
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Look at hybrid owners that buy them for long highway commutes where they actually get worse mileage than the standard models, but they bought into the hype.
Hardly anyone sits down and does the actual math. With the extra upkeep and up front cost of a hybrid, they rarely even come close to paying for themselves.

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post #28 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 08:07 AM
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Hardly anyone sits down and does the actual math. With the extra upkeep and up front cost of a hybrid, they rarely even come close to paying for themselves.
But at least they look cool in their Prius...... oh wait......
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post #29 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 08:09 AM Thread Starter
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Look at hybrid owners that buy them for long highway commutes where they actually get worse mileage than the standard models, but they bought into the hype.
A lot of people don't have long highway commutes. Most people in DFW are in stop and go traffic where a hybrid really does its best. For instance, a Ford Fusion hybrid is rated at 40mpg city/43 hwy...

But hybrids still don't make any sense from a financial standpoint. Even with gas at $3, most people don't save any money because the cars are usually a few grand more than a car.

However, I do suppose that the financial gap is starting to close. The Honda Insight just went on sale and starts at $19800. But then you're driving a Honda Insight.
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post #30 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 09:02 AM
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GM asked for this, actually they begged for this. I am glad the government in there, otherwise these people could take tax payer dollars and hide it in accounts around the world. these are greedy people and they have to be watched.

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post #31 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 09:15 AM
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So what you are saying is that you paid $18,200 for a new car to save a few bucks in gas?

I had heard those commercials before on TV and the radio and told myself that no one would be stupid enough to buy a new car just to save a few bucks in gas, but I guess I was incorrect.
Yes, my options for my drive were my 13 year old truck with 115K miles on it that gets roughly 14 mpg, a '72 Chevelle that was getting maybe 12-13 mpg and required additive, or my Mustang that required 93 octane, got maybe 15 mpg if I kept my foot out of it and rode like crap (it's set up for the track, not the street). None of those choices were economic or convenient for me to drive to and from work or to haul my boys around in.

I sold my Chevelle for a nice profit, put that towards the Focus, wrote a 1.9% interest check on a credit card for the car and immediately began saving money each month. With current gas prices, I'm saving right at $150/month in gas. When it was around $4/gal, I was saving over $250/month in gas. That's more than a "few bucks" as you call it. Now I have a car that I needed anyway to haul kids around in that has already saved enough money to pay for the difference I needed from selling the Chevelle. I've had it 2.5 years, it's paid for, has 37K miles, and has only needed oil and just recently tires. I'll drive this car to 150K miles or more. In the meantime, my truck mileage stays where it's at, the mustang doesn't get much mileage, and the wife's car doesn't get as much mileage which prolongs it's life as well.

So yeah, go on and generalize about how stupid it was. Yes, many people that bought cars to save a few bucks on gas went overboard. I did it after an extensive study on what I'd really save and pitted that against what I needed -- something comfortable, reliable, and efficient for a long commute that was still suited for hauling around 2 young children. It took just over a year and then I was right back where I was -- 4 cars in the driveway and no car payments. Now one of the cars is super reliable, comfortable, and gets over 30 mpg instead of 3 gas guzzling & uncomfortable cars for a daily commute. Thanks for showing your complete lack of knowledge and wisdom.

Juiceweezl
Dallas, TX
2000 Black GT
2V with a fuel pump and some other goodies
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post #32 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 09:17 AM
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Hardly anyone sits down and does the actual math. With the extra upkeep and up front cost of a hybrid, they rarely even come close to paying for themselves.
Agreed. I started to look at them when I bought my Focus. It took all of about 5 minutes to realize there would be no monetary advantage to owning one. I don't understand the infatuation with hybrids. One guy here at work paid over sticker for a hybrid Camry when gas was still around the $3.50/gal mark. It gets like 4 more mpg than a standard gas one and less than my Focus gets. He's still convinced he did the right thing.

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Dallas, TX
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post #33 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 09:42 AM
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Thanks for showing your complete lack of knowledge and wisdom.
It's more like I am showing my lack of compassion for poor decision making.
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post #34 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 10:43 AM
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Agreed. I started to look at them when I bought my Focus. It took all of about 5 minutes to realize there would be no monetary advantage to owning one. I don't understand the infatuation with hybrids. One guy here at work paid over sticker for a hybrid Camry when gas was still around the $3.50/gal mark. It gets like 4 more mpg than a standard gas one and less than my Focus gets. He's still convinced he did the right thing.
Well the Insight is the first hybrid car that makes since to buy. Around 23k with navi.

Other than the Insight, bringing the actual price numbers to a customer makes it easy to switch to a cheaper car. Especially when they can't afford one.

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post #35 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 10:58 AM
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Well the Insight is the first hybrid car that makes since to buy. Around 23k with navi.

Other than the Insight, bringing the actual price numbers to a customer makes it easy to switch to a cheaper car. Especially when they can't afford one.
When that battery-pack goes (not "if", but "when"), any savings of gas money will be forgotten. Honda is quoting $1900 parts, and $900 labor. Some of these have been replaced by Honda under "warranty", but not all. How much gas will $2800 buy @ $2 a gallon?

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post #36 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 11:08 AM
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1400 gallons
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post #37 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 11:11 AM
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I'll buy a VW diesel first.

Even the douches driving the smart-cars don't look like the narcissistic douches that drive hybrids.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #38 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 11:14 AM
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1400 gallons
It was more of a rhetorical question, but yes, 1400 gallons. In a car that gets 40mpg, that's 56k miles.

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post #39 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 11:16 AM
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I'll buy a VW diesel first.

Even the douches driving the smart-cars don't look like the narcissistic douches that drive hybrids.
My neighbor (and folks I built a house for), just replaced a transaxle in their TDI, at a cost of 6K. The car has a little over 110k miles on it.

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post #40 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 11:41 AM
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My neighbor (and folks I built a house for), just replaced a transaxle in their TDI, at a cost of 6K. The car has a little over 110k miles on it.
So what you're saying is, it's like a hybrid?

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #41 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 11:44 AM
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So what you're saying is, it's like a hybrid?
Only if you have to put a tranny in it. I thought they were bullshitting me until I saw the bill. I'd MUCH rather have their car than any hybrid, plus, they get around 50mpg on the highway, and it will run a hole in the ground!

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post #42 of 42 (permalink) Old 05-05-2009, 12:13 PM
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It's more like I am showing my lack of compassion for poor decision making.
Care to explain that? I have a newer, more reliable, and safer vehicle worth more than the old one that meets the needs I had and I've spent the same amount of money over the last 30 months (less counting maintenance savings) that I would have otherwise driving one of my other vehicles. On top of that, they all have less mileage on them as well. How is that a bad decision? If gas had stayed around $4/gal, I'd be way ahead by now. I know it dumbfounds you that other people really can think and do math, but it does happen.

Juiceweezl
Dallas, TX
2000 Black GT
2V with a fuel pump and some other goodies
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