Not a bad read: Obama to be success -- or failure? - DFWstangs Forums
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post #1 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
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Not a bad read: Obama to be success -- or failure?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30460145#storyContinued

Not a bad read. It talks about his first 100 days and points to the fact that the rest of his term and his last 300 days will be what ultimately judges him. I think the writer likes Obama, but does a good job at outlining what's going on. He points out the prowess that the administration is showing at working both sides of an argument. For example, it points out how he closed Gitmo but still supports detaining prisoners somewhere, etc.

Ultimately I think it points out the fact that the Obama administration is primarily doing one thing -- giving everyone in the country a chance to clearly know where they'll stand in 4 years. It's pretty obvious that he's doing some drastic things. If they work, then people will certainly shower the guy with praise and he'll find a second term easily. If not, well, you can look for the Republicans to rise back to power. As the article states, he has the opportunity to become consequential and historical -- one way or the other.

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post #2 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:12 AM
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It says alot about you and others who think his changing back and forth on many campaign promises and spending trillions of dollars in his first 100 days is still something that could be considered good. I remember a time when you Bush haters claimed Bush was spending too much and made government too big. I also love how when Obama lies you claim he is rethinking his position but when Bush did the same thing you screamed he was a liar.

Hypocrites!

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post #3 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiceweezl
For example, it points out how he closed Gitmo but still supports detaining prisoners somewhere, etc.
Supports detaining prisoners "somewhere"? NIMBY comes to mind, much like the nuclear waste repository issue. Gitmo is perfect for detaining prisoners, so why all the hype about closing it when there is so alternative yet posed.

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Originally Posted by Juiceweezl
As the article states, he has the opportunity to become consequential and historical -- one way or the other.
One obvious "consequence" already is a "historical" federal deficit. Not all Obama's doing of course, since the Democratic Congress bears equal blame.
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post #4 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:30 AM
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I remember a time when you Bush haters claimed Bush was spending too much and made government too big.

Hypocrites!
So...were we wrong?

Crybaby.

<------ Still a Bush hater.

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post #5 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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One obvious "consequence" already is a "historical" federal deficit. Not all Obama's doing of course, since the Democratic Congress bears equal blame.
Oh, you mean the "historical" federal deficit he inherited wasn't cosequential??? Give it a rest. Bush turned a surplus into the largest deficit ever at that current time. While I don't like all the spending, I'm going to give it a chance for now. As the article says, he's active. In four years time, there will be no doubt about whether or not he should get another term or who should be in charge. That part I like.

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post #6 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:49 AM
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You're going to give all the spending a chance? It's not you that will be affected by the consequences, it's one or two generations away that will bear the consequences. Your messiah's defecits are going to make those of Bush and Reagan look like child's play. Reagan at least made the U.S. a more secure and respected nation militarily through his deficit spending, unlike the result Obama will bring upon us.
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post #7 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Juiceweezl View Post
In four years time, there will be no doubt about whether or not he should get another term or who should be in charge.
I hate to point out the obvious but this is just a pretty way of saying he has taken a lot of risks and failure will be catastrophic.
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post #8 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:53 AM
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So...were we wrong?

Crybaby.

<------ Still a Bush hater.
If someone claims Obama should be given time for his massive spending increases and making government so huge and still thinks Bush was bad for doing much less of both, well yes you are a hypocrite.

You have always been wrong, but I have proven that many times, haven't I?

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post #9 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 09:09 AM
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You have always been wrong, but I have proven that many times, haven't I?
If you have to ask?

Yes Notch. You are still, all powerful. And by golly..people like you.

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand!
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post #10 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 09:10 AM
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I dont know that he has gone back on any promises, the spending was part of his plan the whole time, middle class tax cuts are there, he sent more troops to Afghanistan. pulling the troops out of Iraq is taking longer then he said it would.

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post #11 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 09:15 AM
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I dont know that he has gone back on any promises, the spending was part of his plan the whole time, middle class tax cuts are there, he sent more troops to Afghanistan. pulling the troops out of Iraq is taking longer then he said it would.
I think you mean to say the he is no different than Bush when it comes to "pulling the troops out of Iraq". Big suprise.

What middle class tax cuts has he made? I hope you aren't referring to the reduced amount of federal withholding on paychecks, that has to be paid back at the end of the year.

And I don't remember him saying his spending plans would waste billions of dollars on bullshit during the campaign. I think he said he was going to try to improve the economy, not fund pork projects with money we don't even have.
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post #12 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 09:38 AM
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Actually, I know some of his campaign promises he went back on:

No lobbyists in power. Unless of course, you agree with him and he gives you a waiver
No more pork spending. Unless of course, he agrees with the plan and wants to look like he's doing something so he can blow hundreds of billions.
Line by line auditing of spending. No one reads these bills it seems. Tell me he read that 1100 page bill he signed.
Bipartisanship. Yeah, not going to happen. He only cares about his programs and that's it. And look for that huge healthcare bill to be pushed through without Republican input today as it's his 100th day
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post #13 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 09:48 AM
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It would be easier to outline the campaign promises he HAS kept, or at least started toward.

Here's my list-

1. Change.
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post #14 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 09:57 AM
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And then there was that brilliant idea that vets should pay for their own healthcare.
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post #15 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by forever_frost View Post
Actually, I know some of his campaign promises he went back on:

No lobbyists in power. Unless of course, you agree with him and he gives you a waiver
No more pork spending. Unless of course, he agrees with the plan and wants to look like he's doing something so he can blow hundreds of billions.
Line by line auditing of spending. No one reads these bills it seems. Tell me he read that 1100 page bill he signed.
Bipartisanship. Yeah, not going to happen. He only cares about his programs and that's it. And look for that huge healthcare bill to be pushed through without Republican input today as it's his 100th day

Would that be the one that he signed early on that he admitted was "Flawed" yet signed it anyway? This guy's a fucking tool.

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post #16 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 10:23 AM
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I read that article on RCP this morning. Chuck Todd has to wear a trojan when he is in the presence of Obama so he won't ruin his suit.

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post #17 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 11:49 AM
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It would be easier to outline the campaign promises he HAS kept, or at least started toward.

Here's my list-

1. Change.
Don't forget Hope.

I have a renewed sense of Hope since he's been elected. And that Hope is that he does NOT get an AWB or healthcare bill to sign. I also have Hope that he does not get a 2nd term and the TRUE conservatives regain power in Congress.

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post #18 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 01:12 PM
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100 days, 100 mistakes. He has made many, many promises that he later backslid on, and made some promises were bald faced lies in the first place (bipartisianship, lobbyists, etc.).

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04252009...kes_166177.htm
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post #19 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 01:24 PM
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the sky is falling.
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post #20 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 02:03 PM
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If you have to ask?

Yes Notch. You are still, all powerful. And by golly..people like you.
I ask becuase you seem to forget the bad times you have had on here and remember good times that don't exist. I take it as my civic e-duty to make you remember this stuff correctly.

Nice liberal Stuart Smalley quote btw. How did you ever get so smart?

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post #21 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 02:12 PM
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I dont know that he has gone back on any promises, the spending was part of his plan the whole time, middle class tax cuts are there, he sent more troops to Afghanistan. pulling the troops out of Iraq is taking longer then he said it would.
What about his tax cuts for "95% of Americans" and his promise to end the Iraq War early on in his campaign? Hell, there have been so many flip-flops on canpaign promieses I can't believe you would say there haven't really been any.

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If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
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I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #22 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 02:37 PM
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the answer was given months ago,"FAILURE"

RON PAUL '08
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post #23 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:32 PM
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I ask becuase you seem to forget the bad times you have had on here and remember good times that don't exist. I take it as my civic e-duty to make you remember this stuff correctly.

Oo..oooo. I just get chills when you speak. It must be that awesome power that you possess. Yes, perform your e-duty oh mighty one.

Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand!
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post #24 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:37 PM
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Oo..oooo. I just get chills when you speak. It must be that awesome power that you possess. Yes, perform your e-duty oh mighty one.
You sound like Chris Mathews did when he was giving skull to Obammy....

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post #25 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 10:16 PM
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Oo..oooo. I just get chills when you speak. It must be that awesome power that you possess. Yes, perform your e-duty oh mighty one.

The quality responses from you continue...

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If you like the IRS, DMV and the Post Office, you will love Obamacare!

“An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life.”
Robert A. Heinlein

I have to agree with a quote from former Treasury Secretary William E. Simon: "Bad politicians are sent to Washington by good people who don't vote."
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post #26 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 11:00 PM
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What middle class tax cuts has he made? I hope you aren't referring to the reduced amount of federal withholding on paychecks, that has to be paid back at the end of the year.
I'm glad you pointed that out... I dont think any of the Obama nut huggers realize what he did... he didnt give anyone a "tax break" all they did was reduce the amount they withhold every week... which means when some file their taxes next year, they wont get that "big check" they're expecting... I cant wait...

I've had this argument with several of the idiots in my office... they don't have a clue...
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post #27 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 11:15 PM
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Oh, you mean the "historical" federal deficit he inherited wasn't cosequential??? Give it a rest. Bush turned a surplus into the largest deficit ever at that current time. While I don't like all the spending, I'm going to give it a chance for now. As the article says, he's active. In four years time, there will be no doubt about whether or not he should get another term or who should be in charge. That part I like.
So you're justifying his dwarfing of Bush's defecit by saying that it's ok because Bush did it? Some change...

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post #28 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 01:28 AM
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the sky is falling.
It is if you are a conservative and/or you care about the egregious debt our children and grandchildren will inherit as the result of this Administration. Or the erosion of our National Security as he continues to abandon or denounce all the measures that has kept us safe since 9.11.01

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it was not a problem to bring money to his house at 10pm.so why is it a problem to call and bitch.it wasnt a problem when we were all sitting around smoking pot together.yes i said it we all were smoking pot together.what now stupid.
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post #29 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 01:49 AM
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I believe most of the larger problems and issues our country is dealing with today, and have yet to deal with, have been around for a long while now. I don't think it's one single person or group that all of a sudden got us into a big mess. And I don't think one person or even group could get us out and even heading in the right direction tomorrow or next week or in a 100 days. At this point people with power are just going to delay inevitable and try to make out with as much as possible. I really don't have any expectation for the government to do much. I just wonder why it's thought that one group is so much more different from the other?
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post #30 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 06:30 AM
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Still waiting for the O.P. to explain how his statement below shows prowess on behalf of Obama, as in where is this "somewhere" and how is it better than Gitmo.

yaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juiceweezl
He points out the prowess that the administration is showing at working both sides of an argument. For example, it points out how he closed Gitmo but still supports detaining prisoners somewhere, etc.
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post #31 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 06:50 AM
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I'm glad you pointed that out... I dont think any of the Obama nut huggers realize what he did... he didnt give anyone a "tax break" all they did was reduce the amount they withhold every week... which means when some file their taxes next year, they wont get that "big check" they're expecting... I cant wait...

I wonder if that was done on purpose so that come next year more people can't pay their taxes. Then when they file for payment plans all those people get to pay interest on top of the taxes, thus increasing the governments take...
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post #32 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 06:52 AM
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It is if you are a conservative and/or you care about the egregious debt our children and grandchildren will inherit as the result of this Administration. Or the erosion of our National Security as he continues to abandon or denounce all the measures that has kept us safe since 9.11.01

You so don't sound like the MM2K that came to us four short years ago...
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post #33 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 07:02 AM
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promise to end the Iraq War early on in his campaign? H
I don't claim to know much, but I do understand the Republicans were REALISTIC in their campaign talks and this is what kill Kerry quicker then could be with me.

But fuck man, you tell people you'll end both wars in 2 days and dumb asses will buy it. YOU KNOW a candidate is not trust worthy when they make unrealistic military plans and basic military plans are the sort of thing anyone can understand. However it really seems that a lot of fucking US citizens find the military and our security someone else's problem and could give a damned less.

Same damned Americans that fly flags, God Bless America bumper stickers and act like they drink the kool aid - talk perfectly able bodied kids out of enlistment. Same kids that have nothing better to do with their life and end up a menace. It can't be -my- kid that gets it done. -MY- kid won't be the one to have zero college/experience and turn into a floozy. ..etc. Get 'r Done...but I can't do it.

Sorry, got on a rant.

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post #34 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 07:09 AM
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Just based on his appointments/attempted appointments alone, he's a failure. How else do we judge him? His blatant disregard for the CIA? His ass-kissing of other world leaders? The fact that the Taliban is less than 50 miles from having nukes, and we're doing nothing? Tripled our national debt?

Jimmy Carter> Barry "muthafucka musta stole my jet" Obammy.

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post #35 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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Still waiting for the O.P. to explain how his statement below shows prowess on behalf of Obama, as in where is this "somewhere" and how is it better than Gitmo.

yaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Go back to picking winners since you do so well Mr. Gonzaga > UNC. Obama is trying to find solutions to many items that draw on middle ground. Gitmo was a great example. Who cares where it's at! One side wanted Gitmo closed, so it's closed. The other wanted us to keep it open to detain prisoners, interrogate, etc. The solution: close the base to make one side happy, but move operations somewhere else which still allows the other side to have what was really important -- detaining prisoners and interrogation. If you think the main issue is that Gitmo has to be open, then you're sorely mistaken once again.

Yes, more often than not he leans Democratic, but that is his elected party. His administration is trying to find middle ground on a lot of issues. That's why he is so popular. Yes he's spending money, but guess what. If McCain and Palin had won, it would be the same flipping thing -- money being spent. You guys crack me up with stuff.

Bush gave money to Detroit to help them. Obama's group gave more (continuation) for the time being and told them to come up with a better plan going ahead or lose everything. That's an improvement over just giving them money for payroll from last year. On one hand some of you claim, "We can't let US Auto go down." Then you complain when we help them or complain that we're spending money to help them. What do you want the government to do? It's either let US Auto fail or give them money. You can't save them and not give them money. At least the current administration is forcing GM to come up with a better plan to make it.

Oh, and I was sorely disappointed that you didn't post Spurs > Mavs in the sports forum somewhere. I expected nothing less from you.

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post #36 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 09:07 AM
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If GM and Chrysler cannot figure out a way to sustain themselves, they should fail. Or more realistically, break apart and find profitable lines of business.

Same for the banks.

Sorry, that's capitalism folks.

For the government to hand out tax money to "preferred" companies is just wrong. How are Lockheed/Boeing doing since they capped F-22 production? How is Nick's detailing business doing? No one is asking them or offering them cash. It's bullshit, it's the wrong way to go about "saving" private companies, to overtake them using tax money and then dictate how the operations are run.
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post #37 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 09:32 AM
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Go back to picking winners since you do so well Mr. Gonzaga > UNC. Obama is trying to find solutions to many items that draw on middle ground. Gitmo was a great example. Who cares where it's at! One side wanted Gitmo closed, so it's closed. The other wanted us to keep it open to detain prisoners, interrogate, etc. The solution: close the base to make one side happy, but move operations somewhere else which still allows the other side to have what was really important -- detaining prisoners and interrogation. If you think the main issue is that Gitmo has to be open, then you're sorely mistaken once again.

Oh, and I was sorely disappointed that you didn't post Spurs > Mavs in the sports forum somewhere. I expected nothing less from you.
Going off topic because you cannot defend your messiah won't help you. But, since you insist on cherry picking posts that are irrelevant to this thread, I was and still am rather pleased on my winning pick of Cleveland State > Wake Forest, posted two days before the game I might add. I am amused to see you're still obsessed with that old topic, because it exemplifies the pathetic shallow-mindedness of Obama lovers such as yourself and their resultant inability to defend themselves when their cherished savior's positions are challenged.

Back on topic, I care where the Gitmo detainees are going to be held, and so do most other intelligent Americans, with you obviously not being included in that segment. Speed up the process of determining their guilt or innocence, yes, but close down the perfect place in the Western Hemisphere at which to detain them simply to curry favor with world opinion, no. That is ludicrous, just like your blind fawning over everything Obama utters from his teleprompter.

Thanks again for performing like a puppet, right on cue just like I expected.
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post #38 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 10:01 AM
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I'm glad you pointed that out... I dont think any of the Obama nut huggers realize what he did... he didnt give anyone a "tax break" all they did was reduce the amount they withhold every week... which means when some file their taxes next year, they wont get that "big check" they're expecting... I cant wait...

I've had this argument with several of the idiots in my office... they don't have a clue...

I could be wrong but I don't know of any other "tax break" he gave the middle class besides that shell game that is being played with federal tax withholding. I'm going to take advantage of the credit for increasing energy efficiency of your home this year, I guess that is a little something he gave the middle class. I'm not aware of anything else really.

Really the shell game may be something engineered quite well. It means a smaller tax refund for most people for 2009. It prepares them for when the shit hits the fan a year later. The Bush tax cuts expire in 2010 and I'm certain the Dems aren't going to renew them since they are "for rich people". The Dems need the money to offset the insane spending. For most "rich" people, IE people who make over $50K a yr. that means about a 15% increase in what they pay in taxes. It is going to be quite a shock for the sheeple.
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post #39 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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Going off topic because you cannot defend your messiah won't help you. But, since you insist on cherry picking posts that are irrelevant to this thread, I was and still am rather pleased on my winning pick of Cleveland State > Wake Forest, posted two days before the game I might add. I am amused to see you're still obsessed with that old topic, because it exemplifies the pathetic shallow-mindedness of Obama lovers such as yourself and their resultant inability to defend themselves when their cherished savior's positions are challenged.

Back on topic, I care where the Gitmo detainees are going to be held, and so do most other intelligent Americans, with you obviously not being included in that segment. Speed up the process of determining their guilt or innocence, yes, but close down the perfect place in the Western Hemisphere at which to detain them simply to curry favor with world opinion, no. That is ludicrous, just like your blind fawning over everything Obama utters from his teleprompter.

Thanks again for performing like a puppet, right on cue just like I expected.
Because holding a detaineed in prison in Cuba differs from holding them in prison somewhere else how? I'm not sure it matters whether the prisoners are waterboarded at Gitmo or at another base. I may be wrong though. Positioning relevant to the equator may have something to do with which way the water flows and the effectiveness of the torture -- errr, I mean interrogation. Idiot. It matters not where they're held, just that they're held, questioned, and available as needed. Go back to picking "winners" in basketball or something else you can fail at just as well as you do here.

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post #40 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 10:57 AM
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You really are a stupid moron and every post you make in this, your own thread, shows off your ignorance more and more. Why detain these prisoners here on the U.S. mainland, or "anywhere else" as you so vaguely put it, when Gitmo is already there and equipped for the task? Go back to swinging from your messiah's nutsack, or something else you're equally adept at. You're just too dimwitted in matters regarding sane national policy to do much else.
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post #41 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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If GM and Chrysler cannot figure out a way to sustain themselves, they should fail. Or more realistically, break apart and find profitable lines of business.

Same for the banks.

Sorry, that's capitalism folks.

For the government to hand out tax money to "preferred" companies is just wrong. How are Lockheed/Boeing doing since they capped F-22 production? How is Nick's detailing business doing? No one is asking them or offering them cash. It's bullshit, it's the wrong way to go about "saving" private companies, to overtake them using tax money and then dictate how the operations are run.
Just to play along here, what happens to the hundreds of thousands of employees at GM alone, not to mention the other companies? What do you do with all of these unemployed people that can't pay their mortgage, can't buy consumables, etc. They have a negative impact on every other business which in turns means they start losing money, cutting employees, etc. Trying to compare Nick's business to GM is absurd. Besides, Nick is perfectly eligible to obtain small business loans and such if he wants them. If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Boeing have govt. contracts where they have guaranteed sales? I could be wrong on that one.

I don't like the fact that we handed them money at all -- at any time. The point remains though that our economy cannot afford to allow companies of such size and impact to go under. It just can't happen or we'll collapse entirely.

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post #42 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 10:59 AM
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Because holding a detaineed in prison in Cuba differs from holding them in prison somewhere else how? I'm not sure it matters whether the prisoners are waterboarded at Gitmo or at another base. I may be wrong though. Positioning relevant to the equator may have something to do with which way the water flows and the effectiveness of the torture -- errr, I mean interrogation. Idiot. It matters not where they're held, just that they're held, questioned, and available as needed. Go back to picking "winners" in basketball or something else you can fail at just as well as you do here.
Do you really think the people that have a problem with the happenings at Guatanamo Bay are upset because it's not physically located in the US?
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post #43 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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You really are a stupid moron and every post you make in this, your own thread, shows off your ignorance more and more. Why detain these prisoners here on the U.S. mainland, or "anywhere else" as you so vaguely put it, when Gitmo is already there and equipped for the task? Go back to swinging from your messiah's nutsack, or something else you're equally adept at. You're just too dimwitted in matters regarding sane national policy to do much else.
Why not? Go ahead. I'm waiting. Why not detain them at another base not on the mainland? Why not detain them in multiple places where we can question them even faster? It's really great how you argue by not making any points whatsoever. I explained why to close Gitmo -- to satisfy both political parties while still maintaining detention/questioning. Your sole argument is simply, "Why should we close it?" That's very, very strong. Nice job.

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post #44 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Do you really think the people that have a problem with the happenings at Guatanamo Bay are upset because it's not physically located in the US?
No, I think that offering a compromise is the way to get something done in a lot of cases. There were people that wanted Gitmo closed -- period. Guess what? They got what they wanted. There were people that wanted it open solely for detention of prisoners/questioning. Guess what? They get what they want, just in another location. That is a compromise that still allows things to carry on almost exactly as before. What's so hard to understand about that?

You and I both know that many people screaming close Gitmo don't care beyond that. They only want to know that it's closed. Rather than drag out an investigation any further, close the base, shut them up, and move operations elsewhere. Easy fix and move on.

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post #45 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 11:11 AM
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Why not? Go ahead. I'm waiting. Why not detain them at another base not on the mainland? Why not detain them in multiple places where we can question them even faster? It's really great how you argue by not making any points whatsoever. I explained why to close Gitmo -- to satisfy both political parties while still maintaining detention/questioning. Your sole argument is simply, "Why should we close it?" That's very, very strong. Nice job.
Thank you for making my point, that being if it isn't broken why fix it. Oh, I forgot you can't come up with any place better because your messiah hasn't told you yet. Really sad argument you made there, and still you dodge the question of where is "somewhere"? Can't think for yourself?
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post #46 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 11:34 AM
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I don't like the fact that we handed them money at all -- at any time. The point remains though that our economy cannot afford to allow companies of such size and impact to go under. It just can't happen or we'll collapse entirely.
That's absurd. Why can't we allow such companies to go under? Do you think they have a constitutional right to our tax dollars because of their failures? Do you think the employees have a constitutional right to healthcare and pensions? Show me where in the constitution it says this. You're whole point rests on the fact that you BELIEVE that the government should step in, yet they don't have the constitutional right to do so.

And before you reply, please don't back-peddle to Bush, or compare to the closing of GITMO. We're talking about government intervening with private companies here, nothing else. I know you libs like to do that sort of thing...
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post #47 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 11:43 AM
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That's absurd. Why can't we allow such companies to go under? Do you think they have a constitutional right to our tax dollars because of their failures? Do you think the employees have a constitutional right to healthcare and pensions? Show me where in the constitution it says this. You're whole point rests on the fact that you BELIEVE that the government should step in, yet they don't have the constitutional right to do so.

And before you reply, please don't back-peddle to Bush, or compare to the closing of GITMO. We're talking about government intervening with private companies here, nothing else. I know you libs like to do that sort of thing...
Libs like to take what is not theirs and redistribute it to those who will not help themselves. By doing so they hope to, and do, gain the adoration of the ignorant and buy themselves legitimacy.
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post #48 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 11:47 AM
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First things first. What we did to the Gitmo detainees was pretty tame compared to what's been done historically, or what I would have done. Face slapping? Less than a minute held under water? Name calling? Nudity? It's uncomfortable, it's a mind fuck, but it's not torture. Torture is electrocution, taking a sledge to your toes, bamboo shoots under your nails, pulling hair out one by one, dripping acid on exposed skin, I can keep going.

We should never bail anyone out. Ever. There is no Constitutional right for bailouts and they should never happen. An industry too large to fail? You mean like the steel industry? Or back when the government was telling big oil to pay more taxes and cut back. The Federal Government is the enemy to free enterprise
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post #49 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 01:30 PM
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Just to play along here, what happens to the hundreds of thousands of employees at GM alone, not to mention the other companies? What do you do with all of these unemployed people that can't pay their mortgage, can't buy consumables, etc.
I don't work for GM. What exactly would you expect when I get fired? Oh, you're right, I can't pay my mortgage, can't buy consumables, etc. Why would a GM employee be any different, or expect to be held in some high esteem because taken collectively all GM employees comprise a large impact to the economy? Give me a break dude! Is it my fault (or yours or any other taxpayer's) that GM was run by bad management and greedy unions? What a bunch of garbage.

Quote:
Trying to compare Nick's business to GM is absurd. Besides, Nick is perfectly eligible to obtain small business loans and such if he wants them.
It's not absurd. Nick's business is a BUSINESS. If he runs it like shit, it fails and he and his employees go hungry. Please explain why GM employees are preferred, special employees. GM COULD get loans, if their credit rating wasn't in the toilet.

Quote:
I don't like the fact that we handed them money at all -- at any time. The point remains though that our economy cannot afford to allow companies of such size and impact to go under. It just can't happen or we'll collapse entirely.
LOL. So you're saying the money is actually saving GM? No, it's not. What it's doing is giving them a temporary shot in the arm while management does all the painful cutting that they were responsible for PRIOR to getting into deep financial shit. Unfortunately it will probably fail anyway.


FYI - "bailing out" the banks pisses me off a LOT more than GM.
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post #50 of 172 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 01:44 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for making my point, that being if it isn't broken why fix it. Oh, I forgot you can't come up with any place better because your messiah hasn't told you yet. Really sad argument you made there, and still you dodge the question of where is "somewhere"? Can't think for yourself?
It was broken. Illegal torture was going on. Who knows what other actions. If we can move it to another base and close operations on one - budget cut. There's a reason. You can't produce a reason not to close it. "If it ain't broke..." doesn't cut it. Gitmo has been under fire for a while now. It's gone, just like the Republicans that were in office and drove our nation off a cliff. Get over it.

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