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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 12:43 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs down Specter prooves to be a waffling POS

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennt...statement.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spineless Bag of Shit
Statement by Sen. Arlen Specter:

I have been a Republican since 1966. I have been working extremely hard for the Party, for its candidates and for the ideals of a Republican Party whose tent is big enough to welcome diverse points of view. While I have been comfortable being a Republican, my Party has not defined who I am. I have taken each issue one at a time and have exercised independent judgment to do what I thought was best for Pennsylvania and the nation.

Since my election in 1980, as part of the Reagan Big Tent, the Republican Party has moved far to the right. Last year, more than 200,000 Republicans in Pennsylvania changed their registration to become Democrats. I now find my political philosophy more in line with Democrats than Republicans.

When I supported the stimulus package, I knew that it would not be popular with the Republican Party. But I saw the stimulus as necessary to lessen the risk of a far more serious recession than we are now experiencing.

Since then, I have traveled the state, talked to Republican leaders and office-holders and my supporters and I have carefully examined public opinion. It has become clear to me that the stimulus vote caused a schism which makes our differences irreconcilable. On this state of the record, I am unwilling to have my twenty-nine year Senate record judged by the Pennsylvania Republican primary electorate. I have not represented the Republican Party. I have represented the people of Pennsylvania.

I have decided to run for reelection in 2010 in the Democratic primary.

I am ready, willing and anxious to take on all comers and have my candidacy for reelection determined in a general election.

I deeply regret that I will be disappointing many friends and supporters. I can understand their disappointment. I am also disappointed that so many in the Party I have worked for for more than four decades do not want me to be their candidate. It is very painful on both sides. I thank specially Senators McConnell and Cornyn for their forbearance.

I am not making this decision because there are no important and interesting opportunities outside the Senate. I take on this complicated run for reelection because I am deeply concerned about the future of our country and I believe I have a significant contribution to make on many of the key issues of the day, especially medical research. NIH funding has saved or lengthened thousands of lives, including mine, and much more needs to be done. And my seniority is very important to continue to bring important projects vital to Pennsylvania's economy.

I am taking this action now because there are fewer than thirteen months to the 2010 Pennsylvania Primary and there is much to be done in preparation for that election. Upon request, I will return campaign contributions contributed during this cycle.

While each member of the Senate caucuses with his Party, what each of us hopes to accomplish is distinct from his party affiliation. The American people do not care which Party solves the problems confronting our nation. And no Senator, no matter how loyal he is to his Party, should or would put party loyalty above his duty to the state and nation.

My change in party affiliation does not mean that I will be a party-line voter any more for the Democrats that I have been for the Republicans. Unlike Senator Jeffords' switch, which changed party control, I will not be an automatic 60th vote for cloture. For example, my position on Employees Free Choice (card check) will not change.

Whatever my party affiliation, I will continue to be guided by President Kennedy's statement that sometimes party asks too much. When it does, I will continue my independent voting and follow my conscience on what I think is best for Pennsylvania and America.
Basically, he KNOWS he'll lose during the next primary and knows the Democrats have floating values and will embrace him.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/21800.html - Obama whips it out for Specter to suckle on the power stick.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the...h-parties.html no way to stop them

http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009...owed-a-switch/
And less than 6 weeks ago, he promised he wouldn't switch, sounds VERY Liberal Democrat, he should do well flopping on the floor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlen "I'm a fucking no core values havin motherfucka" Specter
[Democrats] are trying very hard for the 60th vote. Got to give them credit for trying. But the answer is no.

I'm not going to discuss private talks I had with other people who may or may not be considered influential. But since those three people are in the public domain, I think it is appropriative to respond to those questions.

I am staying a Republican because I think I have an important role, a more important role, to play there. The United States very desperately needs a two-party system. That's the basis of politics in America. I'm afraid we are becoming a one-party system, with Republicans becoming just a regional party with so little representation of the northeast or in the middle atlantic. I think as a governmental matter, it is very important to have a check and balance. That's a very important principle in the operation of our government. In the constitution on Separation of powers.


Senator Motherfucker, don't let the door hit you on the hopefully cancer filled ass on your way out.

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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 01:18 PM
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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 01:38 PM
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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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It is not about priciples or ideals, it is about saving his job.
I know, sadly it was a position based on principles but no longer. I think this wil be a giant backfire.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 02:18 PM
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I know, sadly it was a position based on principles but no longer. I think this wil be a giant backfire.
well when he started as a Rep, the party line was different, now the party line is nothing more than super God freaks and gun nuts. All Rep. values went out the window in the late 80's and early 90's

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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 02:24 PM
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now the party line is nothing more than super God freaks and gun nuts.

You nailed it! The only thing we'd find more appealing to us than God and guns would be God actually holding a gun!

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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 02:39 PM
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The political climate has changed over the past 20-30 years. What I find appalling is the man's lack of character and his inability to believe in something and stick to it. This is clearly maneuvering for the next election. He's as worthless as all of the other DC fucks out there.

Given that, the republican party has to find a way to become relevant again. They need to shed their image as the last holdout for religious wackos and gun toting hicks, and they should adopt a platform that appeals more to the center, like maybe smaller government. Also, they have to do something to appeal to hispanics and blacks while not abandoning the party's message.

Hopefully the dems step in it badly enough that the popularity of the president will shift and will allow a more moderate person to be elected. I personally hope to see the shift come in the next congressional elections.
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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
The political climate has changed over the past 20-30 years. What I find appalling is the man's lack of character and his inability to believe in something and stick to it. This is clearly maneuvering for the next election. He's as worthless as all of the other DC fucks out there.

Given that, the republican party has to find a way to become relevant again. They need to shed their image as the last holdout for religious wackos and gun toting hicks, and they should adopt a platform that appeals more to the center, like maybe smaller government. Also, they have to do something to appeal to hispanics and blacks while not abandoning the party's message.

Hopefully the dems step in it badly enough that the popularity of the president will shift and will allow a more moderate person to be elected. I personally hope to see the shift come in the next congressional elections.

they would need to change so much in today's world to stand a chance now. They would have to give up the fight on abortion, gay marriage, and embrace more science than they have in the past. the religon and gun thing isn't bad when it is just a small part of the issues, making it the only issues does however cause big problems.

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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 02:50 PM
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I'm VERY happy that he finally did this. Now the party can stop sucking his fuckin' dick.
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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
The political climate has changed over the past 20-30 years. What I find appalling is the man's lack of character and his inability to believe in something and stick to it. This is clearly maneuvering for the next election. He's as worthless as all of the other DC fucks out there.

Given that, the republican party has to find a way to become relevant again. They need to shed their image as the last holdout for religious wackos and gun toting hicks, and they should adopt a platform that appeals more to the center, like maybe smaller government. Also, they have to do something to appeal to hispanics and blacks while not abandoning the party's message.

Hopefully the dems step in it badly enough that the popularity of the president will shift and will allow a more moderate person to be elected. I personally hope to see the shift come in the next congressional elections.
A good start would be open-mindedness and logic. The world has changed -- stop living in the past.

In all seriousness though, my biggest gripe with Republicans is the lack of recognition for change. The Constitution was written as a living document which means change and adaptation. Our Nation has grown tremendously and will continue to do so. That means that political parties must evolve as well to thrive and continue to serve the people.

I can't speak for Specter as I haven't followed him, his policies, or the people he has represented. Changing affiliation seems pretty lame on the outside, but if the views and beliefs of the people he represents (the state of PA) has changed, then it's logical to assume he would do the same.

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post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 03:18 PM
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post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 03:31 PM
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Republican=Greed, Ego, Power hungry, and Dishonest. Smart move. Now he is starting to see the light. Republicans just cannot stand the fact that they are being ran instead of actually running.

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post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 03:57 PM
 
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There seem to be 2 schools of thought here on Specter's switch:

1. He took a serious look at where the Rep party was in relation to his views and those he represented and realized the Dem's were a better fit.

2. He took as serious look at his likely challenger in the Rep primary and crapped his pants.

IMO it was a little of both. He voted for things with the Dems, like the bailout, because he thought they were right for his electorate. This cost him with the Rep party base in PA. Realizing that he crapped his pants and realized his best chance at keeping his job (The 1st priority of any elected official unfortunately ) was to jump to the other team.

Now, IMO the Rep party will be fine and pickup seats in 2010 elections simply because there is no other option. This might seem impossible now but the US always does this. Goes too far right for the general public, then swings too far left, and then swings back to the right. I have used the analogy of a blind person driving a car by bouncing off the curbs on both sides of the road before. I think the best course for the Rep party is preach small gov. and balanced spending. If the Dems spend wildly for the next year, specifically the 2010 budget, then look for the Reps to make big gains.

And for those of you who think the 'religious' social issues of gay marriage and abortion alienate minority voters you need to reseach better. Minority voters, black and hispanic voters, tend to skew more conservative on 'religious' issues. Example, 2 things recieved a lot of credit/blame to defeating prop 8 in California: the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the minority turnout for the Presidential election. Some if the social issues that tend to drive away minority voters from the Rep party are immigration, affirmative action, healthcare, etc.

Just my .02...
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post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Cartman View Post
they would need to change so much in today's world to stand a chance now. They would have to give up the fight on abortion, gay marriage, and embrace more science than they have in the past. the religon and gun thing isn't bad when it is just a small part of the issues, making it the only issues does however cause big problems.
So basically what you're saying is the large percentage of people in this country who believe in a God, the right to bear arms (as stated in the constitution), and are against gay marriage and late term abortion don't deserve representation?

How does being a conservative have anything to do with not embracing science?

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True colors shine. Its been about power all along, not ideals.
Yep, Big surprise there... Term limits would go a long way to fix this crap, but it'll never happen.....


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post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 04:26 PM
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So basically what your saying is the large percentage of people in this country who believe in a God, the right to bear arms (as stated in the constitution), and are against gay marriage and late term abortion don't deserve representation?
I believe in all of those things (just as you state them for and against) and feel represented just fine. Are you saying that people who tend to lean Democratic can't share beliefs with Republicans?

To me, this brings up the prime point that people ignore -- we are a living country governed by a living system and Constitution. The belief that being Republican means sticking to age old beliefs and not adapting means losing elections and people from the party. The same can be said of Dems. Evolution happens. Adapt or get left behind.

Use gay marriage as a prime example. Explain to me how that has a negative impact on government. The only possible way is lower tax revenues due to filing jointly.

Do I think gay marriage is right? No, it's against my core beliefs and my Faith as a Christian.

Do I feel it's my place to judge them and prevent them from being "married?" No.

Is preventing gay marriage going to reduce the number of homosexuals on earth? Is there going to be a rush of people that suddenly wake up and say, "Wow, now that gay marriage is allowed, I think I'll be gay."?

God will deal with homosexuals. My job is to raise my children teaching them right and wrong and witness about being a Christian. That doesn't mean it needs to be my mission to eliminate homosexuals from earth. People (both sides) that get hung up on gay marriage are wasting time. We live in a "free" country, so give them the right if they want. God will judge them in time. Meanwhile, spend your time as a legislator on more important issues like the budget.

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post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 04:56 PM
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we are a living country governed by a living system and Constitution. The belief that being Republican means sticking to age old beliefs and not adapting means losing elections and people from the party. The same can be said of Dems. Evolution happens. Adapt or get left behind.
There is nothing wrong with adapting, but just because a belief is age-old does not make it incorrect.

You may feel that you are correctly represented, but many of us do not.

I think the core difference between some liberals and conservatives is that one camp believes that the Constitution, in its current form can not only be changed and expanded, but SHOULD be to the point where many of the Constitution's basic tenets and structure should be changed in order to serve a more "advanced" and "educated" society.
While many on the right have no problem with changes or evolution, but have big issues with going against some of the basic principles in the original document and Bill of Rights.
I believe that an "advanced" society needs to continue to use some of these basic principles to continue to flourish, or else we lose sight of what made the U.S. successful in the first place.

And yes, gay marriage is a side issue.
While I may disagree personally with the thought of gay marriage, many states already have provisions for Civil Unions which grant most of the rights of marriage anyway... its a game of terms, and at this point we should be focusing more on matters of the budget and security.... however, gay marriage sells papers....


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post #17 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 05:00 PM
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post #18 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 05:06 PM
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post #19 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 05:07 PM
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I don't give a shit about gay marriage when my tax rate jumps a few percentage points to fund a bunch of stupid shit I don't agree with.

In a nutshell, that's why I despise the unchecked power, arrogance, and ignorance of today's Democratic party and why I show contempt for the morons that support them. Most of them don't even understand what they are showing support FOR. The black guy. Yeah, that's great. How about a black guy that doesn't attempt to create a government that dominates the lives of its citizens? Some people such as you are happy to relinquish control of their lives for a government parachute. I am not.

Not sure if you've noticed, but most of the people that post in this forum are upper middle class, including some business owners, and pay a hefty amount of taxes. Which side of the "giver" and "taker" argument do you THINK they're going to be on? Duh. I guess as long as you're getting a fat check you're going to keep voting Democrat. Trust me when I say it's not all about social change, a green agenda, and voting a black man into the office for the first time in history - it's about getting PAID.

For the record, I couldn't stand the pushy agenda when it was coming from the right either. If you'll notice, you don't see a lot of support for the wiretaps and gay marriage amendment and stem cell controls pushed by the Bush administration. Now you see a lot of resistance from here to the gun and ammunition controls the left is trying to put into place, for the government takeover and dominance over private industry, and the constant embarrassing worldwide apologies for being the most powerful civilization ever devised by man.

Especially since all this bullshit is being orchestrated by a bunch of proven tax evaders. Fucking criminals.

Where is my voting option for small government as intended in the AS WRITTEN Constitution? Get out of my face with that living document, modify to suit-your-taste garbage. Who can I elect to let my voice be heard? He or she can be black, makes no damned difference to me.
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post #20 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 05:15 PM
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Especially since all this bullshit is being orchestrated by a bunch of proven tax evaders.
What he said^^

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post #21 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 06:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
The political climate has changed over the past 20-30 years. What I find appalling is the man's lack of character and his inability to believe in something and stick to it. This is clearly maneuvering for the next election. He's as worthless as all of the other DC fucks out there.

Given that, the republican party has to find a way to become relevant again. They need to shed their image as the last holdout for religious wackos and gun toting hicks, and they should adopt a platform that appeals more to the center, like maybe smaller government. Also, they have to do something to appeal to hispanics and blacks while not abandoning the party's message.

Hopefully the dems step in it badly enough that the popularity of the president will shift and will allow a more moderate person to be elected. I personally hope to see the shift come in the next congressional elections.
Conservative values are relevant. The older people of the party are not. I disagree with finding middle ground, the party has gotten more central-centric and has suffered. The wacky ass libs are just that, far left wack jobs and they stick to it. The republicans need to counteract that.

Specter all but seals the deal that the next several years will be the sole and individual responsibility of the Democrats and the Republicans need to start illustrating WHY and HOW they are different.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
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post #22 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cartman View Post
they would need to change so much in today's world to stand a chance now. They would have to give up the fight on abortion, gay marriage, and embrace more science than they have in the past. the religon and gun thing isn't bad when it is just a small part of the issues, making it the only issues does however cause big problems.
Why? Gay marriage is still unpopular. It was slapped down in force in Cali and the blacks are bitterly anti-gay (regardless of party).

I also disagree with you on abortion. Just because one party says it is fine, doesn't make it fine. I think it needs to be handled as a medical procedure in drastic situations only. Otherwise, FORCE the girl to go through the pregnancy and FORCE adoption. The misery of the pregnancy should do volumes to cut down on unwanted pregnancies.

And guns still need to be a front and center issue. Fuck the sportsman, we need guns to protect us from assholes that are power hungry.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #23 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stocksilver02 View Post
Republican=Greed, Ego, Power hungry, and Dishonest. Smart move. Now he is starting to see the light. Republicans just cannot stand the fact that they are being ran instead of actually running.
Right...as opposed to what's going on right now with the greedy, egomaniac, powerhungry and dishonest democrats.

Republicans were 'ran' for 50 years you fucking moron and had a relatively short run in which they squandered opportunity.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #24 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 1fastdem View Post
There seem to be 2 schools of thought here on Specter's switch:

1. He took a serious look at where the Rep party was in relation to his views and those he represented and realized the Dem's were a better fit.

2. He took as serious look at his likely challenger in the Rep primary and crapped his pants.

IMO it was a little of both. He voted for things with the Dems, like the bailout, because he thought they were right for his electorate. This cost him with the Rep party base in PA. Realizing that he crapped his pants and realized his best chance at keeping his job (The 1st priority of any elected official unfortunately ) was to jump to the other team.

Now, IMO the Rep party will be fine and pickup seats in 2010 elections simply because there is no other option. This might seem impossible now but the US always does this. Goes too far right for the general public, then swings too far left, and then swings back to the right. I have used the analogy of a blind person driving a car by bouncing off the curbs on both sides of the road before. I think the best course for the Rep party is preach small gov. and balanced spending. If the Dems spend wildly for the next year, specifically the 2010 budget, then look for the Reps to make big gains.

And for those of you who think the 'religious' social issues of gay marriage and abortion alienate minority voters you need to reseach better. Minority voters, black and hispanic voters, tend to skew more conservative on 'religious' issues. Example, 2 things recieved a lot of credit/blame to defeating prop 8 in California: the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the minority turnout for the Presidential election. Some if the social issues that tend to drive away minority voters from the Rep party are immigration, affirmative action, healthcare, etc.

Just my .02...
How do you explain that less than 6 weeks ago he came out and said he was NOT switching parties and then today announces he is changing? Poll numbers. Pure and simple. He'll still lose his seat next year, but will lose it not by giving it up to a better, fresher candidate, he will give it up in a bitch move fashion. He picked his marbles up to run to the side that he thinks will vote him back in.

All things else you stated, are solid

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

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post #25 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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I believe in all of those things (just as you state them for and against) and feel represented just fine. Are you saying that people who tend to lean Democratic can't share beliefs with Republicans?
Citizens can, but politicians lack the ability to think for themselves.


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To me, this brings up the prime point that people ignore -- we are a living country governed by a living system and Constitution. The belief that being Republican means sticking to age old beliefs and not adapting means losing elections and people from the party. The same can be said of Dems. Evolution happens. Adapt or get left behind.
Opinion. The constitution is living in the aspect that it has stipulations in place on how to add to or take away from its content. To have judges make constitution rule from the bench, as opposed to interpreting, is dangerous. And I'd venture to say that constitutional scholars would have a field day with a red marker crossing through the US Code of Law in regards to what is unconstitutional.

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Use gay marriage as a prime example. Explain to me how that has a negative impact on government. The only possible way is lower tax revenues due to filing jointly.

Do I think gay marriage is right? No, it's against my core beliefs and my Faith as a Christian.

Do I feel it's my place to judge them and prevent them from being "married?" No.

Is preventing gay marriage going to reduce the number of homosexuals on earth? Is there going to be a rush of people that suddenly wake up and say, "Wow, now that gay marriage is allowed, I think I'll be gay."?

God will deal with homosexuals. My job is to raise my children teaching them right and wrong and witness about being a Christian. That doesn't mean it needs to be my mission to eliminate homosexuals from earth. People (both sides) that get hung up on gay marriage are wasting time. We live in a "free" country, so give them the right if they want. God will judge them in time. Meanwhile, spend your time as a legislator on more important issues like the budget.
I could give a damn about the gays, but it seems more than coincidental that their numbers have exploded as pro-homosexual teaching has infiltrated public schools.
Allowing or not allowing their marriage has nothing to do with 'judging'....

Love the sinner, hate the sin, right? Not sure where the bible says to embrace the sin so the sinner feels 'otay'
Gays have the same rights as you and I, they can marry a member of the opposite sex. But same sex marriage is a special right, I'm not into giving special rights, legs up, handouts, etc.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 07:30 PM
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A good start would be open-mindedness and logic. The world has changed -- stop living in the past.
Are you talking about me living in the past, or the republican party?
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post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 07:33 PM
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If the Constitution were intended to be some sort of living document it wouldn't be so hard to change. The people who authored it knew exactly what they were doing. Take a look at California to see what happens when you start adding to things like that. I don't want a Constitution that is modified by a government run by special interests and foreign influence. No thanks, anyone who would wish for that is insane.

As for Spector, he is a dirtbag just like every other crook in Washington. I'm not sure why anyone is suprised at all.

On the subject of Republicans, I think some of you are going to discover, much to your suprise, exactly how "relevent" they are in the next election. The best thing the Republicans have going for them is Barrack Obama, remember that I said that. It hasn't even been six months yet and you can compile a laundry list of people who will vote for a yellow dog if it runs against him.
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post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 07:41 PM
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Are you talking about me living in the past, or the republican party?
The Republican party as a whole. That's why it has no control in the government right now.

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post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 07:42 PM
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On the subject of Republicans, I think some of you are going to discover, much to your suprise, exactly how "relevent" they are in the next election. The best thing the Republicans have going for them is Barrack Obama, remember that I said that. It hasn't even been six months yet and you can compile a laundry list of people who will vote for a yellow dog if it runs against him.
This explains why he's still so popular and polls show America is feeling more confident on issues like the economy? I'm just saying...

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Last edited by Juiceweezl; 04-28-2009 at 07:48 PM.
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post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 07:51 PM
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Right...as opposed to what's going on right now with the greedy, egomaniac, powerhungry and dishonest democrats.

Republicans were 'ran' for 50 years you fucking moron and had a relatively short run in which they squandered opportunity.
Maybe the most accurate thing ever posted. Simply put, they blew it with bad decision making and actions. Funny how you want to condemn the Democrats now for what you perceive to be the same thing. Let our government work as designed. The populus has a say each time we vote. They spoke loudly last election. That should tell you something about the swing in power and what they wanted.

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post #31 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 08:14 PM
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Plain and simple, Obama fucking sucks. I'm already sick of his bullshit. Please vote republican in the upcoming elections.

NO NO NO, it should be DFWLS1's, CUMMINS, C6 VETTES.net
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post #32 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 08:38 PM
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Plain and simple, Obama fucking sucks. I'm already sick of his bullshit. Please vote republican in the upcoming elections.
lol Guess the weeding out is starting to begin in the republican party.

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post #33 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 08:46 PM
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Another Congress member paid off by AIPAC
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post #34 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 08:46 PM
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You nailed it! The only thing we'd find more appealing to us than God and guns would be God actually holding a gun!

Hells yeah! God for president!
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post #35 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 09:59 PM
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He's never been a "republican". He's a scumbag from way back (since the Warren Commission magic-bullet theory).

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post #36 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 10:29 PM
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The Republican party as a whole. That's why it has no control in the government right now.
oh, ok then
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post #37 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 10:46 PM
 
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look like spector is not the only one showing his true self.....pure ignorant hogwash
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post #38 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 12:23 AM
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Conservative values are relevant. The older people of the party are not. I disagree with finding middle ground, the party has gotten more central-centric and has suffered. The wacky ass libs are just that, far left wack jobs and they stick to it. The republicans need to counteract that.

Specter all but seals the deal that the next several years will be the sole and individual responsibility of the Democrats and the Republicans need to start illustrating WHY and HOW they are different.
Well, it depends on what you believe vs. the universe of voters out there. Clearly the voters have voted for the dems, so their liberal position is resonating with a lot of voters. Which is troubling to white guys like me and you. *IF* the republicans are to gain power, IMO they are going to have to moderate the extreme fringes of the party to make it work. This means moving toward the middle, without necessarily taking on democratic issues/being democratic. It's going to be a tough job. The voting block is a lot more hispanic and black now, and the republicans have never appealed to those groups. It is time for changes.
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post #39 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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Well, it depends on what you believe vs. the universe of voters out there. Clearly the voters have voted for the dems, so their liberal position is resonating with a lot of voters. Which is troubling to white guys like me and you. *IF* the republicans are to gain power, IMO they are going to have to moderate the extreme fringes of the party to make it work. This means moving toward the middle, without necessarily taking on democratic issues/being democratic. It's going to be a tough job. The voting block is a lot more hispanic and black now, and the republicans have never appealed to those groups. It is time for changes.
I still firmly believe that a lot of people thought a vote for Obama was a vote against Bush and didn't take views into account.

I still don't believe that mushy middlers (on either side) can lead properly.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #40 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:18 AM
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This explains why he's still so popular and polls show America is feeling more confident on issues like the economy? I'm just saying...
Which has little to do with my point. I see him constantly eroding his support, that is, going from one group to another pissing people off in some capacity. You can't keep that up for long.
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post #41 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:31 AM
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well when he started as a Rep, the party line was different, now the party line is nothing more than super God freaks and gun nuts.
I wish.

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post #42 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 09:23 AM
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I still firmly believe that a lot of people thought a vote for Obama was a vote against Bush and didn't take views into account.

I still don't believe that mushy middlers (on either side) can lead properly.
I agree with you on both points.
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post #43 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 09:41 AM
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Which has little to do with my point. I see him constantly eroding his support, that is, going from one group to another pissing people off in some capacity. You can't keep that up for long.
Well either he'll pull it off and do well or he won't. All I was saying earlier is there will be no "grey area" when election rolls around again. It will be cut and dry one way or the other.

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post #44 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 11:46 AM
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Time For Arlen Specter To Go
-- GOA Supports Pro-gunner Pat Toomey

Gun Owners of America Political Victory Fund E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Pl Suite 102
Springfield VA 22151
(703) 321-8585
http://www.goapvf.org

Wednesday, April 29, 2009


First, Senator Arlen Specter provided the instrumental Republican
support to get anti-gun Attorney General Eric Holder confirmed by the
Senate.

Then, he singlehandedly pushed through the massive economic bailout, the
so-called stimulus bill, which contained several provisions of concern
to gun owners.

So it comes as no surprise that liberal anti-gun Specter, who has no
loyalty to the Constitution, also has no loyalty to the political party
that elected him. Specter announced this week that he will leave the
Republican Party and run as a Democrat in 2010.

Specter's announcement comes only after poll after poll showed him
trailing pro-gun conservative Pat Toomey in a Republican primary.

Specter thinks that changing parties will improve his chances of winning
next year.

What he's going to learn is that the voters of Pennsylvania are much
more concerned about their Constitutional rights than they are with what
political party a candidate belongs to.

Every time Attorney General Eric Holder opens his mouth and talks about
reinstating the Clinton gun ban, gun owners know they have Arlen Specter
to thank.

Back in early January, Sen. Specter said he had "grave concerns" about
Eric Holder. He made it sound like he was going to join other pro-gun
Senators and oppose the Holder nomination.

Specter was only putting on a show.

After pretending to oppose Eric Holder, Sen. Specter provided the key
support that brought the nomination to the floor of the Senate.

Why the big switch?

Simple. When it looked like Specter was going to face a primary
challenge from a real conservative, he talked tough and made it look
like he was opposed to Holder. Then for a while, it appeared that
Specter would not have a serious challenge, so Specter flip-flopped and
decided not to oppose Holder.

With people like Specter in office, it's no wonder our gun rights are in
such jeopardy.

At least gun owners have a clear choice in the next election. Former
Congressman Pat Toomey has again taken up the conservative, pro-gun
mantle and will challenge the liberal incumbent.

Visit http://www.toomeyforsenate.com/contribute to support Pat Toomey
for Senate.

Together, we can defeat the Senate's most dangerous turncoat and replace
him with a real Second Amendment defender.

Specter was one of three Republicans whose vote was needed to pass the
bailout. When one of the other two Senators expressed reservations,
good old Arlen Specter stepped in and brought that Senator "back in
line."

Without Specter, there would be no $1 TRILLION bailout.

Really, by the time debt services and other frills of the "socialism
bill" are accounted for, the cost will be over $3 TRILLION!

The debt foisted upon us by Arlen Specter will be passed on to
succeeding generations, AND the bailout is being used as a tool of the
anti-gun left.

You see, the bailout bill contains provisions that can fund anti-gun
activist organizations like ACORN and Moveon.org to the tune of hundreds
of millions -- even billions -- of your taxpayer dollars.

The bailout also contains provisions to require your doctor to
retroactively put your confidential medical records in a government
database. Medical records have already been used to deny about 200,000
military veterans their Second Amendment rights, and that situation will
be made worse for all citizens thanks to the Specter bailout bill.

Perhaps no single Senator is negatively affecting the future of this
country more than Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter.

Please help Gun Owners of America make this Specter's last term in
office by supporting Pat Toomey for Senate at:
http://www.toomeyforsenate.com/contribute

Rep. Toomey challenged Specter in a primary in 2004 with the support of
Gun Owners of America, and came just 1.7% short of winning.

Specter's bacon was pulled out of the fire only after the incumbent
Senator, President Bush and even, unfortunately, some in the gun rights
community campaigned on his behalf at the last minute.

Well, Senator Specter has sold out the people of Pennsylvania and
conservatives across the nation for the last time.

At the same time we get rid of an enemy of gun rights, we can also help
to elect an ardent supporter of the Second Amendment.

Pat Toomey served in the U.S. House of Representatives for three terms,
before honoring a self-imposed term limit and retiring in 2004.

Rep. Toomey was "A" rated by Gun Owners of America during his time in
Congress. Even though he was supposedly "too conservative" for the
eastern Pennsylvania district he represented, Toomey stood firm on his
pro-Second Amendment principles.

Unlike Arlen Specter, there was no waffling on the issues concerning
your gun rights.

Gun Owners of America knows from experience that when we're in the
trenches battling the anti-gunners over reinstating the semi-auto gun
ban, closing down gun shows and funding liberal leftist organizations,
Pat Toomey will be with us shoulder to shoulder.

But first he has to defeat Specter, an anti-gun
Republican-turned-Democrat with millions of dollars in the bank and lots
of new liberal friends ready to give him more.

Gun Owners of America calls on sportsmen and gun owners in Pennsylvania
and across the country to stand with us to defeat Arlen Specter and to
elect Pat Toomey to the U.S. Senate.

Please make the most generous contribution possible to Pat Toomey for
Senate at http://www.toomeyforsenate.com/contribute on the web.

If you prefer to contribute by check, make your check payable to "Toomey
for Senate" and mail to: PO Box 220, Orefield, PA 18069.

Or, you can call the campaign at 484-809-7994 to contribute by phone.

Pat Toomey stands 100% in favor of your gun rights. Together, let's
stand with Pat Toomey in this crucial election.

Sincerely,

Tim Macy
Vice Chairman
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post #45 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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I just got that as well.

Specter will fall into political 'Man without a country' land. He'll, oddly enough, be too conservative for the liberals, and he pissed in his cereal in terms of getting any republican votes.
He needs to pull a Phil Gramm and resign, force a special election and run as a Democrat. Leave it up to the jury that he doesn't want to be judged by.

1/19/09, the last day of Free America.
Pericles "Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it. "

"[T]he people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government and to reform, alter, or totally change the same when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it." --Samuel Adams


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post #46 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 08:41 PM
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We all know that Arlen was a dem originally, right. He's flipped...twice.

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post #47 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 12:30 PM
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A good start would be open-mindedness and logic. The world has changed -- stop living in the past.

In all seriousness though, my biggest gripe with Republicans is the lack of recognition for change. The Constitution was written as a living document which means change and adaptation. Our Nation has grown tremendously and will continue to do so. That means that political parties must evolve as well to thrive and continue to serve the people.

I can't speak for Specter as I haven't followed him, his policies, or the people he has represented. Changing affiliation seems pretty lame on the outside, but if the views and beliefs of the people he represents (the state of PA) has changed, then it's logical to assume he would do the same.
The constitution was NOT written as a living and breathing document. Its written in plain English, and very easy to understand. It has been activist judges that have inserted their own opinions into our constitution that have made you believe it to be living and breathing.

The republicans don't need to be under a giant tent like the dems. The republicans just need to return to their values. The values of Edmund Burke and Adam Smith. The philosophies of Plato and Aristotle. The principles of our founding fathers. These should be foundation of the GOP, not the logic of Specter and his likes. History will forget Specter, and will be nothing but a stain in the democrats undies.

Your party wants to insert their own logic over the principles of our constitution. They believe they are smarter than the above mentioned geniuses.

Go ahead, enjoy your small, slim-won victory. We will get our chance again.
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post #48 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 02:53 PM
 
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The constitution was NOT written as a living and breathing document. Its written in plain English, and very easy to understand. It has been activist judges that have inserted their own opinions into our constitution that have made you believe it to be living and breathing.

The republicans don't need to be under a giant tent like the dems. The republicans just need to return to their values. The values of Edmund Burke and Adam Smith. The philosophies of Plato and Aristotle. The principles of our founding fathers. These should be foundation of the GOP, not the logic of Specter and his likes. History will forget Specter, and will be nothing but a stain in the democrats undies.

Your party wants to insert their own logic over the principles of our constitution. They believe they are smarter than the above mentioned geniuses.

Go ahead, enjoy your small, slim-won victory. We will get our chance again.
Couple thoughts:

On Plato - He believed a benevolent/philosopher King was the best form of government and in his view only the glory seeking, money hungry, and power grabbing ran for office in a Democracy. The process of running for office was so bad in Plato's time he believed it weeded out any who ran for selfless/idealistic reasons. If you are refering to his political philosophies I don't understand how they apply to the GOP. If you had something else in mind please elaborate.

On the idea of the idea of the 'giant tent' - I do agree that the Rep doesn't need to focus on gaining every voter. But that tent has to be large enough to hold 50.01% of the people. Now it is up to you how you get there. (Then again the Dems often snatch defeat from the jaws of victory so maybe the GOP can just sit and wait )

On the constitution - It was designed to be interpreted. Why else have a Supreme Court? Do you like the fact the your city can't outlaw handguns? Do you like the fact you state government can't restrict your freedom of speach? Did you know the Bill of Rights didn't apply to state or city government until the 14th amendment and some (at the time) activist judges using the Due Process Clause to the Bill of Rights. (Supporting info: Bill of Rights applying to the Fed only - US v. Cruikshank in 1876. This case came to the conclusion the 2nd ammendment "has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government". That is a lot different than DC v. Heller. It also said the 1st Amendment right to assembly "was not intended to limit the powers of the State governments in respect to their own citizens" . Later decisions incorporating the Due Process Clause nulified much of this ruling in regards to precedent.) That being said I do understand the feeling when verdicts seem to defy logic and reason!
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post #49 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 03:00 PM
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Couple thoughts:

On Plato - He believed a benevolent/philosopher King was the best form of government and in his view only the glory seeking, money hungry, and power grabbing ran for office in a Democracy. The process of running for office was so bad in Plato's time he believed it weeded out any who ran for selfless/idealistic reasons. If you are refering to his political philosophies I don't understand how they apply to the GOP. If you had something else in mind please elaborate.

On the idea of the idea of the 'giant tent' - I do agree that the Rep doesn't need to focus on gaining every voter. But that tent has to be large enough to hold 50.01% of the people. Now it is up to you how you get there. (Then again the Dems often snatch defeat from the jaws of victory so maybe the GOP can just sit and wait )

On the constitution - It was designed to be interpreted. Why else have a Supreme Court? Do you like the fact the your city can't outlaw handguns? Do you like the fact you state government can't restrict your freedom of speach? Did you know the Bill of Rights didn't apply to state or city government until the 14th amendment and some (at the time) activist judges using the Due Process Clause to the Bill of Rights. (Supporting info: Bill of Rights applying to the Fed only - US v. Cruikshank in 1876. This case came to the conclusion the 2nd ammendment "has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government". That is a lot different than DC v. Heller. It also said the 1st Amendment right to assembly "was not intended to limit the powers of the State governments in respect to their own citizens" . Later decisions incorporating the Due Process Clause nulified much of this ruling in regards to precedent.) That being said I do understand the feeling when verdicts seem to defy logic and reason!
I enjoy your posts', and respect your opinion, but I can't grasp the fact that you stand behind what has gone on in the last 100 days.

CHL holder and Conservative...AKA "Domestic Terrorist"
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post #50 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-30-2009, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fastdem View Post
Couple thoughts:

On Plato - He believed a benevolent/philosopher King was the best form of government and in his view only the glory seeking, money hungry, and power grabbing ran for office in a Democracy. The process of running for office was so bad in Plato's time he believed it weeded out any who ran for selfless/idealistic reasons. If you are refering to his political philosophies I don't understand how they apply to the GOP. If you had something else in mind please elaborate.

On the idea of the idea of the 'giant tent' - I do agree that the Rep doesn't need to focus on gaining every voter. But that tent has to be large enough to hold 50.01% of the people. Now it is up to you how you get there. (Then again the Dems often snatch defeat from the jaws of victory so maybe the GOP can just sit and wait )

On the constitution - It was designed to be interpreted. Why else have a Supreme Court? Do you like the fact the your city can't outlaw handguns? Do you like the fact you state government can't restrict your freedom of speach? Did you know the Bill of Rights didn't apply to state or city government until the 14th amendment and some (at the time) activist judges using the Due Process Clause to the Bill of Rights. (Supporting info: Bill of Rights applying to the Fed only - US v. Cruikshank in 1876. This case came to the conclusion the 2nd ammendment "has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government". That is a lot different than DC v. Heller. It also said the 1st Amendment right to assembly "was not intended to limit the powers of the State governments in respect to their own citizens" . Later decisions incorporating the Due Process Clause nulified much of this ruling in regards to precedent.) That being said I do understand the feeling when verdicts seem to defy logic and reason!
On Plato: Plato knew that unless the philosophers became the sole decision maker in government, it would ultimately lead to a tyranny. I was pointing out that if we don't return to limited government, we will continue with this soft tyranny style government we have today.

On the constitution: The founding fathers also argued against having a Supreme Court on the grounds that it could have more power than the other two branches of government. It's not living and breathing, and you are correct that the SC has the power of judicial review. I don't have time to search for exact Anti-Federalist papers right now, or type out a more elaborate response with past SC cases, but I will gladly do so later if you are inclined.

I mainly wanted to point out that conservatives need to return to their roots if we are to regain any ground. We don't need to act like the dems to gain votes as that's not what conservatives are about.
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